Impossible Playtest Debrief

The lack of mention regarding Necromancer Focus Spells is mildly concerning.

Many forum comments spoke about how the spells themselves were, at best, barely better than other class focus spells, but frequently required a third action to set up a Thrall in a relevant location.

Ditto the class feeling like it really comes into its own at level 7 with 2 thralls per action.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

... we have so many gish options in the game right now it's crazy and the animist in particular makes a really good death knight, what with it's Death Grip, Grudge Strike, Apparitions being a form of undead in every way that matters and the whole 'possession for martial skill theming.'

Don't mean to get too off topic but what is this death grip you are referring to?

Sorry that was unclear, I was referring to Grasping Spirits which always reminds me of an iconic Death Knight Spell from World of Warcraft, where shadowy claws come out and pull an enemy to you, called Death Grip.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

The way I see it, Gish Necromancers work in two ways:

1. Standard Caster "If I have a leftover third action I can strike, and feats reward me for that behavior, but the focus of my turn is on something else."

2. Grave Spells that consume Thralls to fuel Grave Spell effects flavored as Death Knight themed melee powers.

That said, I def don't think it should be a huge emphasis unless we have a lot of room to fill up with extra stuff in the book it's in, we have so many gish options in the game right now it's crazy and the animist in particular makes a really good death knight, what with it's Death Grip, Grudge Strike, Apparitions being a form of undead in every way that matters and the whole 'possession for martial skill theming.'

I think the dev is saying they won't be letting go of Legendary Spellcasting in order to beef up Martial Weapon Proficiency (unlike say Warpriest & Magus). With Thralls, their attacks, & Grave Spells being the chassis, I prefer keeping Legendary. But if Paizo's going to entice us with these gish feats, there has to be more synergy & reward. Or, as mentioned, a Necromancer-adjacent Archetype for martials, which IMO would fill the last concept niches.

I'm thinking of the final boss in Return to Castle Wolfenstein for those familiar. That warrior's undead weren't that threatening or durable, but they harassed and needed to be accounted for.

Yeah I think if they do it, it should rely on their spell infrastructure, like consuming a thrall to swing an oversized death magic scythe that only exists in the context of your grave spell and is channeled through a weapon you're holding.

Especially if there's action econ to follow up with a little hit from a thrall, I think it would also suit what you're talking about.

We're due to get a 'summon undead soldiers' archetype in Battlecry that sounded like it was intended for Martials, so that might already be taken care of.

I grave spell called harrow where its described as a projected arc of your scythe in a 15 foot cone in front of you thats a reflex save and gives you half the damage in temp hp would be really cool; it might be too much and definitely steps on the toes of draining strike, though. Having something like this INSTEAD of draining strike, though, would free up being able to have a thrall strike that turn. Maybe something like that as an early grave spell would would be too good for stacking temp hp.....idk I'm not a designer.

I have some technical thoughts on the runesmith concerning Tracing & Etching and the balance of “pre-combat” etched runes and “in-combat” traced runes. But this thread is not a suitable place for long-winded technical discussions, so I put my thoughts at the end of my playtest thread: Virgil Tibbs, Playtest Rune Smith, comment #27.

If anyone else wants to discuss technical ideas for runesmiths based on the survey results, feel free to add them to my Virgil Tibbs thread. The playtest threads have been archived but not locked.

So glad for these notes! Really excited for the final classes. Any chances we can know more precisely in 2026 when released? Or maybe you can share the date we will get the announcement of the book it's in? Super hyped! My friend is going to run an Impossible Lands campaign and I'll be using the playtest Necromancer until it's officially out.

So glad for these notes! Really excited for the final classes. Any chances we can know more precisely in 2026 when released? Or maybe you can share the date we will get the announcement of the book it's in? Super hyped! My friend is going to run an Impossible Lands campaign and I'll be using the playtest Necromancer until it's officially out.

No dates yet, but we'll make sure the announcement is pervasive in our channels and community!

When can we learn the actual title of the book that these classes are going to be in? Presumably it wasn't in the playtest because of some sort of metanarrative event we haven't broken the seal on, but it's awkward to refer to the book without a title (as in "X is coming out in 2026.")

When can we learn the actual title of the book that these classes are going to be in? Presumably it wasn't in the playtest because of some sort of metanarrative event we haven't broken the seal on, but it's awkward to refer to the book without a title (as in "X is coming out in 2026.")

I'd imagine we'll find out the name of the book at either PaizoCon, or much more likely, at GenCon this year.

SilentInfinity wrote:

So glad for these notes! Really excited for the final classes. Any chances we can know more precisely in 2026 when released? Or maybe you can share the date we will get the announcement of the book it's in? Super hyped! My friend is going to run an Impossible Lands campaign and I'll be using the playtest Necromancer until it's officially out.

No dates yet, but we'll make sure the announcement is pervasive in our channels and community!

Thank you! Appreciate the answer and any detail we can get!

When can we learn the actual title of the book that these classes are going to be in? Presumably it wasn't in the playtest because of some sort of metanarrative event we haven't broken the seal on, but it's awkward to refer to the book without a title (as in "X is coming out in 2026.")

My guess is that it'll simply be "Impossible!" with a very heavy "mad scientist, but magic" theme.

Thank you! Appreciate the answer and any detail we can get!

You're very welcome, SilentInfinity!

Little bit worried that runesmith will end up becoming too much of a support. Please add 2 ways of play where 1 can be more offensive and other can be more supportive (a bit worried bc of your comment about it)

Would also love support for shield/2handed usage for Runesmith as it would be cool to not have a hand free as a requirement. After all we can do most spells having both hands occupied

Looking forward to seeing what u will do with it
c:

Little bit worried that runesmith will end up becoming too much of a support. Please add 2 ways of play where 1 can be more offensive and other can be more supportive (a bit worried bc of your comment about it)

Would also love support for shield/2handed usage for Runesmith as it would be cool to not have a hand free as a requirement. After all we can do most spells having both hands occupied

Looking forward to seeing what u will do with it
c:

Ehh, I think we have plenty of DPS martials. Id rather runesmith be more support so it has the budget to be as magical and varied as possible.

Nice necro (I know it's not that old of a thread but had to say it)

My main worry about runesmith is that it suffers from a lot of the problems kineticists do. Runes are magic and so suffer the same penalties a spell would, but few of the benefits (not working with feats that affect spells, etc). The nature of runes will also likely fall into another unfortunate pitfall that impulses do; unlike spells which are constantly being added, we will likely see the runes printed on release and then none for years (maybe a couple niche ones in an ap).

The limited selection of runes will also run counter to the speal we've heard time and again on caster balance. That is, having the right tool for the right situation. The right save against your target, the right damage type, the right 'silver bullet'.

Luckily, runesmith is basically a full martial so it will be less of an issue than it is with kineticist. But to me, playing a rune smith is all about the cones... Er I mean runes

The nature of runes will also likely fall into another unfortunate pitfall that impulses do; unlike spells which are constantly being added, we will likely see the runes printed on release and then none for years (maybe a couple niche ones in an ap).

I get the concern but that's not so much a pitfall as just a design feature of the game. Nobody really gets long term support except casters via spells. It's not wrong to say we won't see a steady stream of runes, but we won't see a steady stream of exemplar ikons or inventor modifications or barbarian feats either. So I'm not sure how much sense it makes to frame this as some special problem only runesmiths and kineticists have.

Gaulin wrote:

The nature of runes will also likely fall into another unfortunate pitfall that impulses do; unlike spells which are constantly being added, we will likely see the runes printed on release and then none for years (maybe a couple niche ones in an ap).

I get the concern but that's not so much a pitfall as just a design feature of the game. Nobody really gets long term support except casters via spells. It's not wrong to say we won't see a steady stream of runes, but we won't see a steady stream of exemplar ikons or inventor modifications or barbarian feats either. So I'm not sure how much sense it makes to frame this as some special problem only runesmiths and kineticists have.

That's true. I guess in my mind, archetypes with martials in mind, magic weapons, etc. that come out count towards expanding character options for martials. Most archetypes that come out don't help a kineticist do their kineticist thing, only branch out into an alternate playstyle (barb could pick up dual handed warrior and it would sync well with their class, but a kineticist is more limited to options that don't complement their class, if that makes sense).

But you're right that most classes don't get their actual class options expanded very often.

Edit - runesmith being a full martial does make this less of an issue

Nobody really gets long term support except casters via spells.

This is not really true. Casters get support constantly via spells, but martials get support via items like weapon runes & useful equipment being added, which happens reasonably often. Classes also get extra abilities added sometimes in APs or other books, though I think there's fewer "this AP has feats for classes" is less frequent these days vs adding an archetype.

Both of them also work with Mythic.

Almost none of what I just said applies to Impulses at all because impulses are their own thing and don't interact with any of the core game systems. Adding stuff that impacts spells doesn't touch them. Adding runes for weapons doesn't touch them. Adding buffs via alchemy generally doesn't touch them. Mythic doesn't work with them (which is one of the big problems I have with how Mythic is designed). They're off in their own land entirely and Kineticist is basically frozen in time as a class because of it since the only real new option it ever gets are archetypes that let it do non-Kineticist things.

Runesmith runes have a real danger of falling into that same trap, where they get one release and then basically don't exist ever again as far as any future content is concerned.