Starfinder Society Class Playtest

BAM!

And now I can actually talk about what caused the delay for Additional Resources. On that note, I just sent off a bunch of Additional Resources
for review and posting (bringing us to the end of Signal of Screams) and sent off the first draft of sanctioning for Signal of Screams. Oh, and there's a whole new batch of boons that have been prepped for the new year. Expect to hear more about those in the coming weeks!

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Yay! Thanks Thursty!

Thanks, Thursty! I will probably be using the heck out of these rules for other reasons, as they are great guidelines for Pregen Generation.

Questions that may come up:
1) Why did you decide to change the credit values? (just asking for your thought process, not questioning it)
2) Can Playtest characters make Day Job checks?
3) Does the credit from a Playtest character apply the same as a Pregen, in that if you use a level 8 pregen, that credit does not apply until your character is level 8?
4) Are there Out-of-Tier credit values?
5) Was it intentional to not have Playtest character available for the 5-6 tier (which means that some legs of the APs cannot be played with Playtest Characters in Event Mode)?

Thanks so much for your time!

Sweet!

Thanks, Thursty! I will probably be using the heck out of these rules for other reasons, as they are great guidelines for Pregen Generation.

Questions that may come up:
1) Why did you decide to change the credit values? (just asking for your thought process, not questioning it)
2) Can Playtest characters make Day Job checks?
3) Does the credit from a Playtest character apply the same as a Pregen, in that if you use a level 8 pregen, that credit does not apply until your character is level 8?
4) Are there Out-of-Tier credit values?
5) Was it intentional to not have Playtest character available for the 5-6 tier (which means that some legs of the APs cannot be played with Playtest Characters in Event Mode)?

Thanks so much for your time!

1) These numbers made sense with giving further incentive to playtest.

Thanks so much for the quick response!

Additional questions I have seen:
6) Can we use a boon race temporarily to build a Playtest character?
7) Can I make an official OP character based on these classes?

6) No boon races, sorry

7) You can't actually make OP characters until the book releases in Late 2019.

Erf. Not happy about starting a character and then having to shelve them for a year before I can really pick them back up again.

It's sad that we didn't see a play test boon like in PFS so we could keep playing them until the book was released.

I mostly understand it. On several of the PFS playtests, when you could create characters base don the Playtest classes, people complained a great deal when the class changed a great deal after the playtest and they had to revise their characters.

This allows for you to play the Playtest classes without the same level of investment and work... and reduces the complaining once the final versions of the classes are released.

((Whoah... time warp))

It's sad that we didn't see a play test boon like in PFS so we could keep playing them until the book was released.

Erf. Not happy about starting a character and then having to shelve them for a year before I can really pick them back up again.

You wouldn't. You'd use it like a pregen in lieu of one of your regular playtest characters.

Hmm

Erf. Not happy about starting a character and then having to shelve them for a year before I can really pick them back up again.

Think of it more as "pregens unchained", with the gear you would buy and ranks in the skills you think are important. And with chronicles that fit onto characters of any level immediately, making that a lot simpler.

If a player is playing playtest character in a game that does not finish in a single day (such as playing an AP volume in multiple sessions, or playing a play by post game), and that game starts before 1/16 but finishes after 1/16, can the player continue playing the playtest character until the end of that game?

If I make a character its MINE (its ALLIIIIIIVE MUAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHA)

Can you use a Playtest character in 1-00 Claim to Salvation which requires use of a pre-gen?

I would assume not, but since my location will be running that soon I wanted to check.

If a player is playing playtest character in a game that does not finish in a single day (such as playing an AP volume in multiple sessions, or playing a play by post game), and that game starts before 1/16 but finishes after 1/16, can the player continue playing the playtest character until the end of that game?

I *really* need to know the answer to this question. This will determine whether most of PBP can participate or not.

Hmm

Am I reading this correctly that if I play a level 8 playtest character and want to apply the credit to a brand new, completely unplayed character that I CANNOT hold the chronicle until that unplayed character reaches 8th level? I MUST reduce the credits to 720 and apply it to them immediately?

Are Biohacker, Vanguard and Witchwarper going to be playable classes in regular SF games eventually (published in a future hardcover) or are they gonna remain exclusive Society classes for 2019?

Thanks for the answers Thurston.

I can see this is a nice option if someone would otherwise have to play a pregen (eg, playing King Xeros of Star Azlant as their first SFS game).

For myself, the work involved to build a playtest PC that I might only get a chance to play once because its only 6 weeks and over the holidays, it doesn't seem worth it. It would take a few games to really get a handle for how a character build works.

We're talking about a Dead Suns run in campaign mode over the holidays though, that way when Jan 16 hits we can provide feedback but continue to play out the AP if we want.

Are Biohacker, Vanguard and Witchwarper going to be playable classes in regular SF games eventually (published in a future hardcover) or are they gonna remain exclusive Society classes for 2019?

*confused dog headtilt*

Non Starfinder society games can use the playtest version as is, as well as any modifications someone wants to make, or the version someones little brother made up as long as the DM lets them. Its only society games that need any kind of official approval for playing options.

Folks, I think many of you are looking at this the wrong way. Its not about giving you an option to play a special character a couple of times and then not again for a year. Its about the chance to help the designers determine what works vs what doesn't and what we like vs what we don't. Is it more work to create this new "one-shot" pregen than it is to simply play your own character? Sure, but the purpose is to make our game better in the end. Every time they playtest rules before publishing them, it makes the game better for everyone. Try to keep that in mind and avoid thinking about this as a short term reward of some kind.

Poit wrote:

If a player is playing playtest character in a game that does not finish in a single day (such as playing an AP volume in multiple sessions, or playing a play by post game), and that game starts before 1/16 but finishes after 1/16, can the player continue playing the playtest character until the end of that game?

I *really* need to know the answer to this question. This will determine whether most of PBP can participate or not.

Hmm

As long as the character starts a game prior to the cut-off, I'm fine with it. HOWEVER, please don't abuse this into starting up 40 different PBP/long games with pregen characters to farm a bunch of credit using this system. Honestly, I'm ok with at most 1-3 games of this nature going past the cut-off, anything more starts to really look like abuse.

Am I reading this correctly that if I play a level 8 playtest character and want to apply the credit to a brand new, completely unplayed character that I CANNOT hold the chronicle until that unplayed character reaches 8th level? I MUST reduce the credits to 720 and apply it to them immediately?

Note the "choose" in the above. You can still hold onto it as normal. For those who want immediate satisfaction, you can turn them in for the credit values listed above!

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

Poit wrote:

If a player is playing playtest character in a game that does not finish in a single day (such as playing an AP volume in multiple sessions, or playing a play by post game), and that game starts before 1/16 but finishes after 1/16, can the player continue playing the playtest character until the end of that game?

I *really* need to know the answer to this question. This will determine whether most of PBP can participate or not.

Hmm

As long as the character starts a game prior to the cut-off, I'm fine with it. HOWEVER, please don't abuse this into starting up 40 different PBP/long games with pregen characters to farm a bunch of credit using this system. Honestly, I'm ok with at most 1-3 games of this nature going past the cut-off, anything more starts to really look like abuse.

Thanks Thurston! I'll be playing in AP #7 in January, but it finishes on the 17th. I'd be sad if I missed the opportunity to play a playtest class because it finishes one day late.

To build off some of the previous statements...

I recognize that there's some division on using this method Vs. the "create a playtest character for Starfinder Society" method. Honestly, the reason for this comes down to a few major factors.

Playtest Data: The goal with the playtest is just that: playtesting. If we opened up character creation, then we'd likely just see a glut of level 1 characters who might be able to power through 1-2 levels worth of content before the playtest period ends. It would severely hamper the effectiveness of what OP offers the playtest in terms of data. If we encouraged people just to make new characters that would remain in the campaign it creates a very specific dataset that OP is testing, so the pregen offered us a unique way of encouraging a variety of builds over a variety of levels.

Expectations: Given that this is a playtest, it's entirely possible that some of these classes have unforeseen mechanical interactions with the game. It would be unfair to the players to setup a bait/switch over the next year if something proves to be too powerful and then suddenly gets changed in the final printing. Similarly, it's difficult to balance this without creating a whole bunch of "rebuild characters" that people can hold onto by putting a few levels into playtest classes.

Maintenance: This was the clincher for me. If something with these classes turns out to be problematic for Organized Play, it won't be addressed by our design team until the publication of the new book. If something were to come up that was a serious detriment to the campaign, I would then be put in a very awkward position of making a ruling on it that would affect the remainder of the playtest period and end up potentially muddying the waters in terms of expectations for the final rendition of the classes. So the Organized Play team agreed that we did not want to be responsible for those kinds of "OP-specific design decisions" on a playtest product. Similarly, despite how minor it may seem to people, adding another thing for me to keep track of takes away from my ability to provide the content I'm already providing. Heck, it still irks me that I couldn't effectively discuss the reasons behind the Additional Resources / Sanctioning delays until this was announced! :D

Anyways, as with all things new with Starfinder Society, this is a test. We'll see the reactions and gauge how to handle it going forward in future potential playtest situations! :)

Thanks for the explanation, Thurston!

Erf. Not happy about starting a character and then having to shelve them for a year before I can really pick them back up again.

I feel you, my friend. But after having no open playtest for the shifter and then having to wait 6 months after the book's release before creating one, I am not complaining. Especially when there's very good reasons for the limited playtest window.

I actually love how Playtest is being conducted, Thursty. It gives us a chance to experiment. And maybe try out a character design early.

Can you use a Playtest character in 1-00 Claim to Salvation which requires use of a pre-gen?

I would assume not, but since my location will be running that soon I wanted to check.

^ As the GM of the game in question, I'm hoping for an answer to this if we can get one.

Hmm

I just wish the playtest window was two weeks longer...straight over the top of Christmas and New Year will severely restict our ability to do it justice. You can basically take out December.

Erf. Not happy about starting a character and then having to shelve them for a year before I can really pick them back up again.

Yes remember these are beta characters, so don't get attached to them. Go ahead and make your Wyonna Warpsalot, Shieldy Mcsheilds, and Kneedles. Have your fun get data and gather an educated opinion on them. Then cast them off into an undisclosed location in the vast with a one-way ticket, on their beta ship, nonstop in the drift.

Anyways, as with all things new with Starfinder Society, this is a test.

I wish I could hit the +1 button on Sandra's comment above more than once; 6 weeks during the holiday season is effectively 2 weeks of real world testing. This obviously wasn't your decision, but I think we'd all like an extra 2-4 weeks so we could provide higher quality feedback - OP or not.

Loss of downtime sucks. We're already volunteering to help Paizo by putting in this work, at least let us roll downtime check with the PC we apply the credit to! This especially applies to players at retail incentive program venues during the holiday season where we're landing $50+ reroll+3x bonuses every week.

Races - if we're only going to play a PC once or twice, why not let us play a race we wouldn't normally be able to? I can understand wanting data on how CRB races work with the classes, sure, but playtest more generally isn't being held to this restriction. At least let us temporarily slot unused race boons..

OP generally, the "carrot" is having PCs we can play at conventions and under different GMs. There's no "carrot" to playing playtest in OP here, just restrictions.

I don't understand banning downtime either, but I can understand restricting to core races to keep the data pool more clear.

Hmm

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Erf. Not happy about starting a character and then having to shelve them for a year before I can really pick them back up again.

Yes remember these are beta characters, so don't get attached to them. Go ahead and make your Wyonna Warpsalot, Shieldy Mcsheilds, and Kneedles. Have your fun get data and gather an educated opinion on them. Then cast them off into an undisclosed location in the vast with a one-way ticket, on their beta ship, nonstop in the drift.

This isn't how some of us work. Some of us are already attached to our characters before we even sit down to play them, or else playing them just isn't worth while.

I do wish there was more permanence of these characters. However, I know that I can at least keep the name and idea of a playtest character, and use it again for a real character when the book is approved.

As a note, the credit quota gained by playing these characters (along with the drastically reduced penalties should death occur) are intended to be "above the norm" in terms of standard credit allocation. Similar to how we allocate slightly higher than average credits to AP installments by offering a campaign mode style of play. While I can understand the disappointment in not getting downtime rolls, it falls under the same premise of not having access to Boons on pregens, and overall is something we accounted for in the math that these rewards offer. So this is more of a heads up that this was on my radar when the decision was made.

As for races, it was a question that was asked previously, and the intent is very much to focus on core races (including always available legacy races) and not have to add in more systems for how to handle race boons.

As for the commentary on the "carrot", in this case we tried to be as open as possible, by offering players who want to test multiple builds the means of doing so and still earning credit for Organized Play. In many ways, playing these playtest characters allow for a less threatening table experience and easier access to boons than what would be available on a standard character. I can understand that the current method of Organized Play playtesting might not appeal to all players, but I would hardly consider a system that lets you earn credit for custom-built characters of multiple levels to be overly restrictive compared to other options that were available.

Finally, as for the playtest period, that was something beyond the Organized Play team's purview. The main focus on that timeline has to do with design resources and publication schedules. We're doing our best on the OrgPlay side to offer what we can within the period where the testing will be received and can be acted on by our design team. Obviously, the longer period the better, but we work with what we have for Organized Play and having a playtest that works in OrgPlay is better than one that doesn't.

As I said above, I'll continue to hear feedback on this and listen. Like I do with everything :)

Can you use a Playtest character in 1-00 Claim to Salvation which requires use of a pre-gen?

I would assume not, but since my location will be running that soon I wanted to check.

You can use these pregens for #1-00. Go forth and test! :)

I don't understand banning downtime either, but I can understand restricting to core races to keep the data pool more clear.

Hmm

Sure, except non-OP isn't subject to the same restriction. People are going to play these classes and provide feedback even with races from 3rd party content.

Consider also the benefit from this data; eg how does playing a large creature with natural reach change how the Vanguard's entropic strike functions?

Bret Indrelee wrote:

Can you use a Playtest character in 1-00 Claim to Salvation which requires use of a pre-gen?

I would assume not, but since my location will be running that soon I wanted to check.

You can use these pregens for #1-00. Go forth and test! :)

HUZZAH! I will tell the folks at Dreamers.

Hmm

Already started the testing with a confirmation run

"A player using a non-1st-level playtest character may choose to apply the earned Chronicle sheet to an existing Organized Play character."

Could you please add credit values for levels 9-10 and 11-12 (or "character up to 8th level" clarification)?

I think they don't want someone using a level 8 scenario with level 8 degrees of danger to advance a level 9 or 10 character.

"A player using a non-1st-level playtest character may choose to apply the earned Chronicle sheet to an existing Organized Play character."

Could you please add credit values for levels 9-10 and 11-12 (or "character up to 8th level" clarification)?

Already answered in the Blog Post above: "Credit must be assigned to characters of lower level than the playtest character."

Trying to decide if I can put together a playtest character (only PbP available to me atm), and hopefully find a game.

Am I correct in thinking core races only currently, because we don't have Sanctioning for the other playable races (AA, AA2) yet?

Its core races (including the legacy ones) because they don't want to worry about something weird like reach breaking the playtest

Trying to decide if I can put together a playtest character (only PbP available to me atm), and hopefully find a game.

Am I correct in thinking core races only currently, because we don't have Sanctioning for the other playable races (AA, AA2) yet?

Answered above, missed it somehow before I posted.

GreyWolfXR wrote:

Trying to decide if I can put together a playtest character (only PbP available to me atm), and hopefully find a game.

Am I correct in thinking core races only currently, because we don't have Sanctioning for the other playable races (AA, AA2) yet?

Its core races (including the legacy ones) because they don't want to worry about something weird like reach breaking the playtest

Not quite. I'm more concerned about coming up with a whole system of "what races are legal? Does this use up my race boon? Can I use a race boon that I've already applied?" and a variety of other questions that would come of it that I'm sure I haven't even thought of yet.

The goal for this is to provide a framework for people to get some Organized Play credit and still be useful to the playtest in a manner that's easy to perform and won't have any negative lasting effects on the campaign. While for some people, a month of "Starfinder: Cantina Playtesting Unleashed" may be fun, it's not quite in mind with the goal of keeping this both versatile and simple.

My ongoing sanity appreciates your understanding :)

Also sad about the loss of the Downtime.

Not so much for the credits (which the upscaled rewards covers) but for the lost opportunities to advance certain boons that require the use of Downtime.

For a 4th level character is it a 4000 credits in total or 4000 credits plus the 1000 you would get as a first level character i.e. build the 1st level character first then advance it to 4th and add the 4000 credits then?

Well we certainly don't want any further loss of sanity on your part, Thirsty.

We kooky role players certainly tax it enough as is. :cheers:

If using a 4th or 8th level playtest character, do you still need to pay the credits according to the normal rules on page 7?
"The Roleplaying Guild character must contribute a number
amount of credits to cover the costs before using any of
the pregenerated character’s wealth, depending on the
pregenerated character’s level: 0 credits for a 1st-level
pregenerated character, 600 credits for 4th-level character,
and 3,300 credits for an 8th-level character."

My ongoing sanity appreciates your understanding :)

This assumes you had any to begin with.

So, is building the playtest characters with the Legacy races okay? as far as i know, most of the legacy races are locked behind boons that allow a created character of that Race.

i can understand non-CRB player-boon races being locked, still. Like the ever classic Morlemaw or Skittermander

So, is building the playtest characters with the Legacy races okay? as far as i know, most of the legacy races are locked behind boons that allow a created character of that Race.

** spoiler omitted **

i can understand non-CRB player-boon races being locked, still. Like the ever classic Morlemaw or Skittermander

Guide 1.1 2. RACE

guide 1.1 page 21

Though I understand the valid criticism re. certain aspects of the playtest, I feel the opposite is true for me.

About the "throwaway" characters vs. investing in our PCs, I too really like the possibility of testing @lvl 4 and 8, to have a feel for the play-tested class at all levels to see how I like it (and, RP-wise, it is simply like a flash-forward into who your character will be later on!).

re. the playtest period, I know the upside is that some people set more games up during the holiday period, at least that what happens in my region (for example, where I play, there are APs to be played in game shops during week-days - so I'm contacting them to see if they want to playtest).

Thanks for setting this up, and I hope you get the feed-back you need.