Pathfinders of Death

I can´t say how disappointed i am.

Although these Kickstarter minis look pretty cool and some advertisement for the Pathfinder add-on is certainly in order, i am not going to spend money on a board game kickstarter 20 hours before it finishes.

I wouldn´t have minded this, if we would have gotten regular blogs, but 5 weeks of no news, then getting something that has nothing to do with Pathfinder Battles - after all i´m here for roleplaying and not tabletop (as nice as that can be too) - and then having to stomach another two weeks of no news is a little too much for me.

I wish you a nice holiday none the less, but please consider not putting the minis previews on the backburner for new (and also exciting) things like Pathfinder comics or crossover projects in the future.

Best,
Marco

PS: If i sound a little cranky, i´m sorry, but i am sick and been staying awake for hours to see something new of PFB. :-(

Sorry for not blogging more for you over Christmas. Marco. I'll try to never let you down in the future. I guess several years of near uninterrupted weekly blogs from the publisher set up an unrealistic expectation that it would continue forever, under all circumstances imaginable.

I posted this Kingdom Death news as rapidly as I could, because it took too long for the business aspects of this to work themselves out until the last minute.

But, since you're such a big supporter of Pathfinder Battles and I hate to kick a sick man when he's down, I'll post something about the minis to the Paizo Facebook in a few minutes.

Maybe that will make you feel better.

Not sure I care all that much at the moment, but I guess we all can get cranky from time to time.

Have a nice vacation Erik. The artwork for the characters looks wonderful and should produce some amazing minis.

You sound more than a little cranky, and if the goal was to annoy me, you've succeeded tremendously.

Here's hoping I live up your standards in the future. I'll try not to worry about it too much when I'm in Hawaii.

I certainly don´t wanted to annoy you and want to apologize sincerely if i did.

There you go, buddy. Check out the Paizo Facebook.

Just for you, because you're my pal.

Enjoy.

I wish I had the funds for this. If only it were a few months down the line...

That said, I hope some quantity of these minis can be made available to us here. If there's anything that can be done to help make this happen, I'd love to know more. ^_^

There you go, buddy. Check out the Paizo Facebook.

Just for you, because you're my pal.

Enjoy.

Thank you Erik, that really made my day.

Also, a link to the Facebook PFB preview, for the curious. ^_^

"Coming December 2020"

Ouch. :/

Okay, another thought about the PFB preview: this will be the second time that I've bought a Paizo product to get a prepainted plastic mini of a black dragon with a rider. ^_^

"Coming December 2020"

Ouch. :/

Note the shipping section at the bottom of the campaign page:

Wave 1 - Estimated Delivery Summer 2017 Core Game / 1.5 Update Pack 

Wave 2 - Estimated Delivery Winter 2017 (Still hoping for Summer 2017)
Current Expansions

Wave 3 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2018
Gambler's Box, Promo and cross-over figures (that would be the pathfinder and zombiecide ones)

Wave 4 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2019 
New Expansions

Wave 5 & Beyond - Estimated Delivery Winter 2020
???

So you will end up getting the game this summer, to start playing through it so you know how to play once the pathfinder minis come in the spiring

I see. Thank you! (I'm no good at Kickstarter.)

That said, if I bought in now (somehow), I'm pretty sure that's the wave I'd be in. ^_^

Guys, now that I've cooled off a bit, I've decided that Marco is right, and that two more weeks without PFB updates is too long to wait. So I've decided that I'll pre-write at least one very impressive Crown of Fangs update to be posted while I am gone. I won't be around to harass in the comments (probably), but at least that way you fiends won't get the shakes. ;)

Enjoy your trip, Erik. We'll be sure to save our harassment for your return. :)

Don't know if you've done Hawaii before, but there's a charter flight service for four people or so around the big island that's great. Looking down into bubbling lava. Pretty cool!

Thank you, sir! (Both for this preview and the next.)

I hope you have a lovely time on vacation. ^_^

I like the Valeros and Kayra, but why did poor Mer have to lose the crotch to her pants?

Does this also mean we'll be treated to a KMD Preacher or Distraction style mini for Seoni?

Didn't even notice Merisiel's thighs in that picture. Will see about getting them to adjust it to her regular leggings. Not intentional.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I just want to say how much I admire Paizo for their artistic integrity. Kingdom Death looks like an amazing game, and I'd certainly play it were money and time permitting. It's a pretty badass prospect to do a crossover with the PF characters. I have seen some of the fan-servicey minis from KD and there certainly not in line with my tastes (not trashing anyone who's not offended by them), and I gave a sigh of relief when Eric said there would be no "pin-up" version of Kyra. I hope anyone who gets there hands on those minis has a good time with them.

I'm wondering if a PFB treatment of the Twilight Knight or the like would be possible? Something like what happened with the Wrath of Kings miniatures game.

Guys, now that I've cooled off a bit, I've decided that Marco is right, and that two more weeks without PFB updates is too long to wait. So I've decided that I'll pre-write at least one very impressive Crown of Fangs update to be posted while I am gone. I won't be around to harass in the comments (probably), but at least that way you fiends won't get the shakes. ;)

You rock dude!

I've heard that kingdom death involves minis and/or mechanics that center on rape and torture, as well as over-the-top sexual content, all of which runs counter to Paizo's history of inclusivity and respect. From an above comment, it seems that Paizo is devoted to making sure their female characters are still represented respectfully, which I appreciate, but can you comment on this disparity? How central to the game is this style of content, and did it cause any pause when deciding to enter into this licensing agreement?

I've heard that kingdom death involves minis and/or mechanics that center on rape and torture, as well as over-the-top sexual content, all of which runs counter to Paizo's history of inclusivity and respect. From an above comment, it seems that Paizo is devoted to making sure their female characters are still represented respectfully, which I appreciate, but can you comment on this disparity? How central to the game is this style of content, and did it cause any pause when deciding to enter into this licensing agreement?

As someone who got the original games and expansions I can comment that there is no rape in game, despite the sexualized attributes of some monsters (those are more for "Strike here for extra damage!"). As for torture, not really, unless you count gruesome deaths such as getting ripped in half or being melted by radiation as torture.

There's definitely no mechanics based around those things either, save for dying horribly, there's plenty of rules for that.

The Wetnurse a mini that shares setting with the game but predates it is pretty damn explicitly about rape. It's not actually involved with the main game at all but still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and is really a black mark on the franchise as a whole.

As for torture there is the slenderman expansion which centers around slenderman stalking someone and gaslighting them into insanity. The oblivion mosquito sounds similar in nature. Though these aren't really women specific tortures and I don't see how that would be really at odds with a company respecting women.

I think the primary problem for a lot of people with the game is two fold.

1) The primary art aesthetic is similar to the binding of isaac save that you replace deformed fetuses with faces/hands and feces with sexual organs. It's on the same level of maturity and New Grounds edginess, but is rendered in a fairly realistic and detailed style of minis. Whereas the Binding of Isaac is rendering the same basic style but in a cartoony low detail format. Hence why generally BoI is generally just accepted as a purposely edgy kids game whereas Kingdom Death is seen as something more "real" and troublesome.

2) The creator has a very very obvious type and throws it at you less subtly than even Quentin Tarantino's legendary foot fetish. The creator REALLY likes women who are for want of a phrasing big boobbed and thick hipped. Now there isn't anything wrong with that but it is excessive to the point of ridiculousness. They only vary from this body type once in a blue moon and only for very specific one purpose minis. This is obnoxious to many views because it is very incongruous with the established setting. How is it in a survival situation that all the women are carrying this much body fat, why do they go around in armor with strategically placed to be sex gaps, and why the f$~% do the men appear to have absurd gains despite presumably being on the same diet?

This all adds up to a certain feeling of wrongness with the game, but not the sense of wrongness the game is clearly going for. It's the artist overplaying his hand about showing you much more about himself than the thing he intended to convey.

Personally I liked the monster designs enough to get the first version of the game and will likely chip in a bit for some of the monsters for this one, but won't bother going deep. I'd prefer if the survivors had a more lithe wirey look to them like actual hunter gatherers and to remove some of the more childish elements of the game's humor, but that seems unlikely to ever happen so I will not really be looking out to support it in the future.

That all being said I do really like some of the monster designs and would like Pathfinder rules for them.

Would love to pledge for it, but my money is a bit tight atm... I am still hoping to get this game some day...

Hey Erik:
Usually, when I'm on vacation someone else oversees and takes on my responsibilities? They may not be able to do the job as well as I (or you in this case), but at the least they can get some things, like previews accomplished. That's the way to go Erik because when on vacation you should NOT have to worry about work no matter how much you love it.

No kidding. Working on it.

I'd say the primary problem for a lot of people with the game is NOT two fold as outlined. Some skin is fine with me, and my wife I might add. I'd gather most are not bothered. Awesome work!

I wasn't terribly bothered by Merisiel either, for the record. ^_^

Yep, that's what I think most feel Kalindlara!

Honestly I do find the frequent bare inner thigh thing of fantasy art rather gross. It's flaw that undermines a lot of otherwise good character designs.

I bet someone with moderator access could delete both of the first two comments. I doubt either author would mind, especially if they read them a day or two after.

Marco and Erik have been pretty awesome to both each other and all of us on this forum. Those are a bit of a blemish.

The Wetnurse a mini that shares setting with the game but predates it is pretty damn explicitly about rape. It's not actually involved with the main game at all but still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and is really a black mark on the franchise as a whole.

The Wet Nurse is a single minded monster that serves the Entity of the Holy Lands. It's only purpose is to nourish the creatures born in the Holy Lands with the molten milk it produces. This is the nutrition that carries within it the imperatives and instincts to serve the Entity of the Holy Lands. The monsters birthed by the Mothers and Grand Mothers of the Holy Lands are taken by the Wet Nurses who's milk is the very will of the Entity. Humans taken from their mothers at birth are nursed by the Wet Nurses to create the mindless shambling masses of Holy Landers that live in the Entity's fiefdom.

This is the only writeup I've seen for the monster and I'm not seeing anything "explicitly about rape", is there another writeup anywhere?

It's not in the write up so much as one of the sample screenshots. It showing a penis tentacle clearly either about to enter or having recently left the miniature of a crying woman lying on the group. That's about as explicit as one can get with just a mini.

It's not in the write up so much as one of the sample screenshots. It showing a penis tentacle clearly either about to enter or having recently left the miniature of a crying woman lying on the group. That's about as explicit as one can get with just a mini.

Ah, Okies.

I've only seen the KD store screenshots so I missed the penis tentacle and the lying/sleeping woman always been off to the side, hmm...

So this a boardgame?

I like the art style, will it only use the core class iconics or will we see all the iconics?

So this a boardgame?

I like the art style, will it only use the core class iconics or will we see all the iconics?

Yep, it's a boardgame, and so far we're only getting the four Iconics mentioned.

Whoa, senpai noticed me.

For the record, My primary objection was not the bare inert thigh, just the method. Boots and a skirt would have been resonable, if not ideal, and boots and phoenix chaps would be consistent with the world, if a bit more Sin City strip club scene. The way the clothes were though? They would have had to have been tailored in that fashion, making them the "sexy adventurer costume" pants, strategically open and hard as hell to put on and maintain.

Glad you changed it.

I wish I had the funds for this. If only it were a few months down the line...

That said, I hope some quantity of these minis can be made available to us here. If there's anything that can be done to help make this happen, I'd love to know more. ^_^

You can back at $5 and then get access to the add-ons later. That's how I'm planning to pick up these amazing minis.

For those that were asking about the game itself, it's a table top game for 1 to 6 (I think) players.

I've primarily played it solo, and enjoy it quite a bit.

It has a heavy story narrative, where you and the other players control a settlement, and over time upgrade it, and the settlers to try to survive in the world.

The short version is, it mixes monster hunter/Punchout! style boss mechanics, settlement management, and character/gear building mechanics, over a 20 turn campaign.

There's 3 main parts:

1. Monster showdown - 4 settlers (or 6 with variant rules) against 1 boss (sometimes more in future planned expansions). This is the tactical mini fighting part of the game. The boss monster is controlled by an AI deck, which specifies what the monsters actions will be. This varies in most fights, as you usually randomly add cards. There are also cards that specify what happens when you miss, hit or crit hit. I really enjoy this part, and scratches a similar itch that pathfinder does for me when using mini's. The AI decks are a really neat way to control fight mechanics, and to apply some narrative to the actual encounter. It's given me quite a bit of idea's on how to GM encounters in Pathfinder as well to vary how creatures fight the party.

If you beat the monster, you receive various item cards that can later be used to craft gear or other things.

By far my favorite part of the campaign.

2. Settlement Phase - this is where you level up/gear the settlers, build new options that open up new gear or other options for your settlers, have some events that can impact the game, and manage all of your settlers. Normally settlers will die, so I tend to think of the settlement more as the main character in the game, rather than individual settlers.

This part scratches the optimizer and character builder aspects that I also enjoy in Pathfinder. Lots of possibilities, and choices that need to be made that open up some options, and close off other options.

3. Hunt Phase - This the weakest part in my opinion. It's basically an RNG phase where bad things usually happen to you to weaken you before the monster showdown, and or the monster gets away, and you need to wait a turn before you go after a monster again.

As other's have pointed out, this game definitely has mature content (no rape however!), the mini's can be a pain to assemble, although the armor kits that come with the core game have great bit's that I've been able to add to my pathfinder mini's (great weapon selection, and other things like a lute, harp etc...). For some of the monster's where I'm not a huge fan of the mini, I'll substitute another mini, and not worry about the original. The pin up's are not part of the game itself. Settler representations are ale pretty tasteful, some of the add-on monsters do get more graphic and extreme.

This link will do a much better job of analyzing and discussing some of the questionable themes that have been discussed earlier in this thread than I can:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomDeath/comments/4hwa6c/so_apparently_kingdom _death_is_creepy/d2trqb9/

After this, what are the chances of a Kingdom Death monster or two showing up in a bestiary?

Honestly I do find the frequent bare inner thigh thing of fantasy art rather gross. It's flaw that undermines a lot of otherwise good character designs.

Neither Adam (Kingdom Death's creator) nor I noticed the bare thigh on Merisiel. I just talked to him and we're getting it fixed now.

Nothing to see here. :)

I bet someone with moderator access could delete both of the first two comments. I doubt either author would mind, especially if they read them a day or two after.

Marco and Erik have been pretty awesome to both each other and all of us on this forum. Those are a bit of a blemish.

Ennh. I think we're good with each other at this point. We just were both feeling a little bit elbow-jabby yesterday. Watch the evolution of two nerds arguing about miniatures in real time!

After this, what are the chances of a Kingdom Death monster or two showing up in a bestiary?

Well, it probably won't be the wet nurse! :)

Rysky wrote:

After this, what are the chances of a Kingdom Death monster or two showing up in a bestiary?

Well, it probably won't be the wet nurse! :)

Double yay!

1st yay for KD monsters!

2nd yay for hopefully not being the wet nurse (We already have the Drakaina)!

OVER $12 MILLION RAISED AND ONLY AN HOUR LEFT FOR THE KINGDOM DEATH 1.5 KICKSTARTER!

And at $12,392,289 it is finished.

...and I was just thinking about paying in for the Pathfinder expansion. :/

Hopefully Mr. Mona will be able to make these minis available to us in some way. I'll try not to dwell on it too much.

If he or Paizo doesn't I'll gladly send you my copy when it gets in ^w^

General Dissa Ray wrote:

I bet someone with moderator access could delete both of the first two comments. I doubt either author would mind, especially if they read them a day or two after.

Marco and Erik have been pretty awesome to both each other and all of us on this forum. Those are a bit of a blemish.

Ennh. I think we're good with each other at this point. We just were both feeling a little bit elbow-jabby yesterday. Watch the evolution of two nerds arguing about miniatures in real time!

I still love you, man. :-)