The Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Osirion

Nice!
good work, i can't wait!

Seems like there ought be more evil gods...

But that is probably just my opinion.

No... like the rigidity of Egyptian life, the pantheon was set there to help the people. Set, once the god handling the outside world, turned evil after a big invasion attempt, as I understand it.

Yes! I've been waiting for this for quite a while! Very nice!

YES!!!

Osiris, Set and Wadjet. Not familiar with the last one, but I think I am about to be...

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

Don't forget Nyarlathotep in his form as The Black Pharaoh!

Don't forget Nyarlathotep in his form as The Black Pharaoh!

He is a great old one not specifically a god of Osirion.

I love getting information about real world gods. Especially stuff like domains, alignment, favored weapon, etc. I have always liked real world pantheons and would love more done with stuff like this for the Norse, Greeks, Native Americans, Japanese, Hindu, Chinese, Celts, and more.

Eindridi wrote:

Don't forget Nyarlathotep in his form as The Black Pharaoh!

He is a great old one not specifically a god of Osirion.

*I* know that :)

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

An Adventure Path's rules contents typically appear on the Additional Resources page within a month of the book's publication—often very close to the listed street date. Since this material appears in Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves, I would expect to see any material from this book available around April 30th.

Will Khepri have a beetle for a head?

I looked over this list for a god who was chaotic good, had the Protection domain, and had an interesting favored weapon -- which naturally drew me to Selket and the scorpion whip. I then looked up the scorpion whip in the PRD and these message boards.

Was the whole mess over how the scorpion whip is supposed to work ever resolved? There appear to be no relevant errata or FAQ answers for Ultimate Equipment, the most recent book to reference that weapon.

Why does Sobek have the Scalykind domain? Are we going to see a crocodilian subdomain, by any chance?

GM Hills wrote:

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

An Adventure Path's rules contents typically appear on the Additional Resources page within a month of the book's publication—often very close to the listed street date. Since this material appears in Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves, I would expect to see any material from this book available around April 30th.

Thanks very much, Mr. Compton. That's perfect, I just wanted to make sure: 1) It would be legal and 2) It would be available for an eventual Warpriest once the full release rules are in my hands at GenCon.

Interesting choice to make Ra LN instead of LG. What was the thought behind that choice, may I ask?

Interesting choice to make Ra LN instead of LG. What was the thought behind that choice, may I ask?

I was actually surprised to see so many good and chaotic ones. The Osirion culture is so predominantly lawful, I expected a heavy leaning to LN. Instead an even split of L/C, with strong Good over Evil.

John Compton wrote:

GM Hills wrote:

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

Since this material appears in Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves, I would expect to see any material from this book available around April 30th.

Thanks very much, Mr. Compton. That's perfect, I just wanted to make sure: 1) It would be legal and 2) It would be available for an eventual Warpriest once the full release rules are in my hands at GenCon.

It would be neat to have them be Osirion only, whether Regional affiliation, faction, or both required.

Interesting choice to make Ra LN instead of LG. What was the thought behind that choice, may I ask?

Well, they did make Horus LN as well. What do the two of them have in common? They both have Rulership in their portfolio. And the current Pharaoh is also LN. I think I see a bit of a pattern here.

I hope now Paizo perceive how much a On Hallowed Ground type book is wanted by everyone. Setting gods are cool, but real world gods have a lot more impact and relevance. i loved Planescape because of that.

John Compton wrote:

GM Hills wrote:

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

An Adventure Path's rules contents typically appear on the Additional Resources page within a month of the book's publication—often very close to the listed street date. Since this material appears in Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves, I would expect to see any material from this book available around April 30th.

Thanks very much, Mr. Compton. That's perfect, I just wanted to make sure: 1) It would be legal and 2) It would be available for an eventual Warpriest once the full release rules are in my hands at GenCon.

Yes, I had the same question so that's good to know. I'm already making my khopesh-wielding warpriest of Horus that I've been dying to try.

Osiris looks amazing!

This is a great addition to the line. Although the Deities of Golarion are varied, what I always felt that set apart Earth's Ancient Egyptian setting was it's unique Deities. With the incorporation of the traditional Egyptian Deities in the the Pathfinder Chronicles Setting, I think we'll start having a better feel about adventures set in the land of Osirion.

I really like this, as I can see the gods of Ancient Egypt in the Pathfinder Universe exerting an influence on Golarion, as a certain Old One has done. I had hoped to also see Khnum, the Nile god, as a god of waters, but maybe he can be saved as a local deity for an area near Osirion as he was adopted from Nubia as I recall.

Will any of this be Pathfinder Society legal?

Mythic Adventure Path idea: The Norse Pantheon finds Golarion and tries to influence the Lands of Linnorm Kings by force, and the adventurers have to stop them before a godswar start.

Will any of this be Pathfinder Society legal?

GM Hills wrote:

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

An Adventure Path's rules contents typically appear on the Additional Resources page within a month of the book's publication—often very close to the listed street date. Since this material appears in Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves, I would expect to see any material from this book available around April 30th.

John Compton wrote:

GM Hills wrote:

The real question: When/will they be legal for PFS?

An Adventure Path's rules contents typically appear on the Additional Resources page within a month of the book's publication—often very close to the listed street date. Since this material appears in Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves, I would expect to see any material from this book available around April 30th.

Thanks very much, Mr. Compton. That's perfect, I just wanted to make sure: 1) It would be legal and 2) It would be available for an eventual Warpriest once the full release rules are in my hands at GenCon.

Just keep in mind that I answered the question of when this material would be available and not whether or not it will be and how. I trust Mike and I will discuss those matters over the next month or so.

Oh hey, ZanThrax may have beaten me to that point.

I wasn't really trying to answer GM Hills' follow up question, just letting William Ronald know that the basic question had been answered. If they become legal, it won't be until at least when the book is published. (But I'm hoping they will be made legal. It's nice to have options for clerics who want a particular domain / alignment combo without having to get highly creative with their histories to justify it. Especially with the removal of the Lantern Lodge making it easy to use Tien dieties.)

Seems like there ought be more evil gods...

But that is probably just my opinion.

Yeah, like Sissyl said, there just aren't a lot of evil entities in the various incarnations of the Egyptian pantheon. Even Set, in some interpretations, isn't necessarily evil, it's pretty much just Apep (and some smaller weaker entities that would probably "just" be Demigods in Pathfinder). The Egyptian gods existed in their culture mostly to teach and oversee orderly conduct, the ancient Egyptians didn't have as much in the way of sweeping drama plays involving light vs. dark, good vs. evil, and that sort of thing.

Their culture was vastly different than even other ancient cultures that would come onto the scene later. The core tenants of their faith pretty much revolved around the concept of Ma'at (see the LN deity above). A lot of the moral and ethical issues of Western cultures and ancient religions would have been pretty foreign to them. Being a "Good" person to the ancient Egyptians was pretty much all about being a "Lawful" person, in pathfinder terms. Even then their culture wasn't about Law vs. Chaos, as entities such as Sobek (rightly described as CN here), were seen as necessary evils to maintain the balance of the world.

This also explains why Ra is LN. If you read the myths, Ra never really does anything "Good" (he can actually be a bit of jerk), it's all about cosmic order.

All in all, I'm incredibly impressed (though not really surprised) at how well the Paizo people nailed down the various alignments and portfolio dynamics here. It's always nice to see when people "get it" as opposed to just trying to shoehorn round pegs into square holes. They could have made more of them good and/or evil to make it a more rounded pantheon for an RPG, but no, they stuck to core tenants and kept the pantheon culture intact. Well done, Paizo!!

Rob can certainly talk more about this... but it's a tricky thing figuring out alignments for real-world mythological figures, while simultaneously trying to cover all the possible alignments while ALSO trying to make deities feel different enough that they are separate enough choices game-mechanics and flavor wise, even though in some cases, the deities are real-world variants separated by time that are essentially the same faith in a lot of ways.

Yeah, I imagine it was probably a huge headache (but a fun headache), trying to pin these 20 down and which 20 to pick for that matter.

Trying to map ancient religions (based on cultures with relatively alien moral and ethical views compared to more recent cultures) using the Alignment system is challenging. If you ever do a supplement on Iblydos, I'll be curious to see if you incorporate any Greek gods. For your sakes, I hope not, because that could get tricky. Where do you even start when you've got guys like Zeus. Short of making most of them pure Neutral, there are a lot of fuzzy areas.

(And, yes, I know the Greeks and many other pantheons have been detailed over the years in various D&D supplements, multiple times in fact, but I've rarely ever agreed with how they've been handled. It goes back to the round peg square hole business.)

THE ROC DOES NOT KNOW WHO THIS 'SILKYSET' JABRONI IS, BUT THERE IS ONLY ONE SCORPION KING WHO IS TRULY THE PEOPLE'S CHAMPION

Seems like there ought be more evil gods...

But that is probably just my opinion.

Interesting choice to make Ra LN instead of LG. What was the thought behind that choice, may I ask?

The Block Knight is pretty much spot-on with the choices behind the deities and their alignments, domains, and so forth. I go into more detail about the design challenges of this pantheon in the foreword to Pathfinder #80, but beyond the things The Block Knight mentioned, I also had to make sure the Ancient Osirian deities also fit in with the core 20 Golarion deities. For example, what do you do with Anubis when Pharasma is already the goddess of death, or Ra when you have Sarenrae as the sun goddess? Not to mention the fact that the Ancient Egyptians had way more than 20 gods, and that many of them changed over time (or even absorbed other gods who had previously been distinct entities).

In the end, I had to make the choices that felt right and did what we needed to do within the setting, and when dealing with actual historical entities, there's no way that everyone will be happy with every choice made. But I did my best, and I'm looking forward to people's comments when they get the chance to read the full article!

Yeah this is pretty much spot on with my own interpretation of the Egyptian pantheon as far as alignments/portfolios/domains go.

I think it'll be an interesting theme to see in the AP if the Law vs. Chaos angle of Egyptian society comes up.

*Makes mental note to create Ancient Egypt campaign for players, and thank Paizo they did this for me.*

Why does Sobek have the Scalykind domain? Are we going to see a crocodilian subdomain, by any chance?

There already is one. It's a druid domain in the religions book from about 4 months ago.

YES! :D

And now it's even harder to settle on a Mummy's Mask PC. D:

Loving that we have a solidly good snake god confirmed now(and nicely set against Apep). It's also going to be interesting to see how Nephthys fits into Osirion culture if the Egyptian Law vs Chaos theme is emphasized. It's nice having a chaotic god of things like community and protecting the dead as those get pushed as lawful so often. A Wati native desert ranger just popped into my head now, stalking the dunes and ruins for grave robbers.

Extremely happy Maat is here, considering how important both the goddess and the system of Ma'at was to Egyptian culture. Might there be any words about an Osirion version of that way of life?

Osiris and Isis really need to hang out with Tsukiyo and Shizuru some day. They've got a lot in common. :)

Thanks big time for this guys!

Nice

Although to be honest I'm not a big fan of mixing real world mythology gods in the Golarion setting. It's not just for Egyptian ones either. I don't think I would like somebody like Thor floating around out there.

It also raises the question if all the other gods from various real world mythology aren't part of the setting then why are the Egyptian ones special and in there?

I'm so excited!! Can't wait to play with my crocodilekin who worships Sobek :D awesome, awesome job paizo!

By the way -- somebody needs to correct the article title. These people have multiple gods as well as multiple goddesses -- but the title suggests a single god with a harem of goddesses.

Yes, I must admit I'm halfway tempted if I was to play instead of GM to run a Cleric of Ma'at named Gav. (Bonus points to anyone who gets the reference.)

Ooooh, look closely at Osiris' artwork. Look more closelier.

I like that he's straddling worlds and states of being there. Gotta be awkward to move though. He and Isis aren't going to be winning any dancing competitions at least. :)

Nice

Although to be honest I'm not a big fan of mixing real world mythology gods in the Golarion setting. It's not just for Egyptian ones either. I don't think I would like somebody like Thor floating around out there.

It also raises the question if all the other gods from various real world mythology aren't part of the setting then why are the Egyptian ones special and in there?

To me that question is more of a feature.

Sissyl: There are surprises here too. I noticed immediatly that Sobek wasnt Evil. That surprised me as Crocodiles traditionally in Egyptian culture were feared because they prowled the Thebes looking to 'kill' those who got too close. Thus their connotation as 'evil' and thus I would assume Sobek would be. I think its an interesting (and welcome) development that he is not. The same goes with keeping Apep and Set separate. They are two deities which were always quite similar and i always viewed Set more as LE than NE. The fact that Set is not a god of foreigners in Golarion but more the god of Storms and Deserts (as well as Darkness) is very interesting.

All in all I love it.

Sissyl: There are surprises here too. I noticed immediatly that Sobek wasnt Evil. That surprised me as Crocodiles traditionally in Egyptian culture were feared because they prowled the Thebes looking to 'kill' those who got too close. Thus their connotation as 'evil' and thus I would assume Sobek would be. I think its an interesting (and welcome) development that he is not. The same goes with keeping Apep and Set separate. They are two deities which were always quite similar and i always viewed Set more as LE than NE. The fact that Set is not a god of foreigners in Golarion but more the god of Storms and Deserts (as well as Darkness) is very interesting.

All in all I love it.

There were two subspecies of crocodiles there the entire time, we found that out through DNA tests.

The ancient egyptians found it out by the simple expedient of one letting you rub its belly and the other considering you on the menu.

For example, what do you do with Anubis when Pharasma is already the goddess of death, or Ra when you have Sarenrae as the sun goddess?

I really like what you did with these two. Both compliment rather than just straight compete with their Golarion counterpart. Particularly with Anubis and Pharasma. Both function as the sole death divinity just fine, but I could also them being worshiped together.

I assume these Gods bar Apep, Khepri and Wadjet are currently in the Wane cycle in Osirion.

It seems Pharasma and Nephyths would get along: Anubis too?

I also would have expected more Lawful-ness, but that would make for a pretty lopsided and one-note pantheon (everyone but maybe Set and Isis, the biggest breakers of Ma'at, and, naturally, Apep, being Lawful).

Ha. Isis, inventor of necromancy, is NG. :)

A possible patron for white necromancers?

Nice

Although to be honest I'm not a big fan of mixing real world mythology gods in the Golarion setting. It's not just for Egyptian ones either. I don't think I would like somebody like Thor floating around out there.

It also raises the question if all the other gods from various real world mythology aren't part of the setting then why are the Egyptian ones special and in there?

I think that's more of a matter of having an issue with well-known gods or "pop-culture" gods being in the setting. The Egyptian gods are hardly even close to the first mythological deities to be incorporated into the setting.

And I don't think it's fair to hold different deities to double standards, unless you're also not a fan of any of the following: off the top of my head Golarion is already familiar with Asmodeus, Ahriman, Lamashtu, Sun Wukong (plus several other Asian deities that are identical to their Earthen counterparts and only have slight spelling variations to their names), and I won't even begin to list the fiendish Demigods hanging about.

Plus, even if the Egyptian deities were the only Earth gods with a connection to Golarion that would be fine too. There's no rule saying that if Ra decides he wants to be worshiped on multiple worlds then Zeus, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, and Shiva have to play follow-the-leader. It has nothing to do with the Egyptian pantheon being special, they just happen to be interested in another planet. Maybe some of the other Earth pantheons are as well or maybe they aren't. I don't think it's a matter of something metaphysical stopping other pantheons from interplanetary worship, but rather a simple matter of inclination.

[Inner Egyptologist]SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/Inner Eygptologist]