These aren't half bad, but I for one am rather hoping that we're getting close to done with humanoids for this set.
One of the biggest mistakes DDM made was putting out far too many PC/NPC minis. Keep in mind, over the average game there are a handful of PC's and a whole lot more monsters.
I get that this is a themed set, but the AP has a lot of monster too :P
I imagine you're not out of them yet ^^
Its not monstrous...but its a good preview.
Jakardros Sovark: I like him a lot. Nothing but praise for this mini. Looks great. Correct me if Im wrong but this may be the first mini who's bow actually has a string.
Vale Temros: Whats up with his mouth? I clicked on the picture to get a better look and still cant make it out. Is his mouth open? Is that a beard?
Kaven Windstrike: I KNOW I cant be the only person who's initial reaction to the picture was "Its Han Solo!!".
I LOVE this miniature. My friends and I are starting a new campain in a few months and one of us wants to be a Swashbuckler. Im sure I just found his mini. Thank you. :)
These aren't half bad, but I for one am rather hoping that we're getting close to done with humanoids for this set.
One of the biggest mistakes DDM made was putting out far too many PC/NPC minis. Keep in mind, over the average game there are a handful of PC's and a whole lot more monsters.
The counter being that encounters with NPCs tend to involve a whole group of them. I'm more likely to need 6 minis to be bandits or soldiers or henchmen than, say, 6 ettins in any given encounter.
Plus, for those of us whose first foray into collecting minis is this Pathfinder/WizKids line, it's nice to have a wide variety to choose from to represent PCs.
I look forward to this set so much. RotR was an amazing launch product, and I can't wait for the rerelease. My players still talk about how they made it through book 3 only to fail in the beginning of book 4.
They've been itching to get a crack at this again and with all the great products coming out for this adventure I can not wait to run it as a GM.
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Next week, I promise something gross and monstrous!
...Mammy?
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These aren't half bad, but I for one am rather hoping that we're getting close to done with humanoids for this set.
One of the biggest mistakes DDM made was putting out far too many PC/NPC minis. Keep in mind, over the average game there are a handful of PC's and a whole lot more monsters.
I get that this is a themed set, but the AP has a lot of monster too :P
I imagine you're not out of them yet ^^
I agree 100%. If would prefer more monster, less humanoids. Also more monsters Pathfinder specific, not done in other lines.
Thanks
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Once again these photos aren't doing much for me.
Are these final samples? If so you really need to do something about how the color displays in these product photos. It was the same way with the Heroes and Monsters set, they looked horrible in the photos and great in person.
I know nothing about photography but can't something be done about this?
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Wow, that Jakardros mini looks fantastic! I'm definitely going to be picking up a single of that one, regardless of whatever else I buy.
I always pictured the Black Arrows as having more of a "uniform", or at least a similar color scheme. The individual minis are very nice, but I'd prefer if they looked a little more like a unit. Maybe that's just me, though.
As for the NPC to Monster ratio, I personally prefer having lots of humanoid minis. I use a lot of classed PC races in my games, so they are useful to me as a GM. And as a player, it is very nice to have a wide selection of interesting humanoids to choose from (though in all honesty, I usually pick up a Reaper mini for my long-term PCs. Anyone who is going to be on the table for that many sessions deserves to be metal).
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Once again these photos aren't doing much for me.
Are these final samples? If so you really need to do something about how the color displays in these product photos. It was the same way with the Heroes and Monsters set, they looked horrible in the photos and great in person.
I know nothing about photography but can't something be done about this?
Apparently not unless you can come and help us art direct the shots yourself. We do the best we can.
I agree 100%. If would prefer more monster, less humanoids. Also more monsters Pathfinder specific, not done in other lines.
Meh. I'm going to register the opposite vote.
I only tend to use a monster once unless it's a wolf/orc/ogre type iconic monster. I don't need the freak of the week. I've got dozens of those.
On the other hand, I don't like to hear "wasn't that the bartender from the last town?" when re-using a mini for a bandit or major NPC. More, more, more of what gets encountered; people.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Guys, as long as these miniatures are based on Adventure Paths, we're going to pick the appropriate creatures to run the campaign, whether they're humanoids OR monsters.
I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures.
So noted.
But you're going to get loads more of them over the next several years, so harping on the issue is not going to change much.
You're also going to get TONS of monsters. TONS of creatures you do not already have, and TONS of creatures that have never been made before in plastic.
Be patient, please. This is not a one-and-done thing.
This is a set of miniatures designed to support a complete campaign that involves monsters AND humanoids.
We are in this for the long haul.
If this strategy does not appeal to you, I invite you to purchase singles.
If this strategy does not appeal to you, I invite you to purchase singles.
was just about to say it myself. Though I plan on buying cases and then more singles for the encounters I want to focus on... still need more ogres.
I agree 100%. If would prefer more monster, less humanoids. Also more monsters Pathfinder specific, not done in other lines.Meh. I'm going to register the opposite vote.
I only tend to use a monster once unless it's a wolf/orc/ogre type iconic monster. I don't need the freak of the week. I've got dozens of those.
On the other hand, I don't like to hear "wasn't that the bartender from the last town?" when re-using a mini for a bandit or major NPC. More, more, more of what gets encountered; people.
+1
I can reuse the same monster over and over. They aren't usually memorable. NPCs on the other hand get retired after being used as a PC or major NPC because they get associated with that character.
I just wish they weren't doing a second bow-user and 2 TWF. I like variety.
I would like to add I really like the ballance I have seen in this current set so far and would not be disappointed to see it continued.
And it's probably a better strategy to say "I want more of X" rather than "I want less of Y".
Purely cause you sound more positive, and people like hearing positive things.
Paizo has always been accepting of constructive criticism which is why they have such a loyal fan base, and one of the reasons I love the company.
It's one of those things that not every mini is valued by every DM and they all have opinions as to what mini/type of mini's they want, but for Paizo to be able to keep this a profitable venture they have to keep the general sets varied enough to keep people buying them. Covering as wide a base as possible. I feel the Heroes and Monsters set did this for me persoannly.
Now set specific sets like this upcoming one will hopefully cover all of the specific encounters and add to the base for the general ones (Ogres, Goblins, etc). The fact they previewed 3 Humanoid NPCs, which are major portions of Hook Mountain Massacre makes me happy.
But a preview of 3humanoid NPCs/64 (I'm sure we'll see a few more in the set) has caused a debate about peoples desires of set composition Now thinking through the modules IIRC there's not too many Humanoids. Skinsaw cultists should be a common(IMO), Aldern Foxglove (Rare IMO)... not sure what other's I could be forgetting Hopefully some Ogrekin Common/uncommons.
I'd actually be pretty stoked to pull multiples of these three preview figures; very unique sculpts that still have a lot of re-usability (bandits, other adventurers, henchmen, etc). I do love me some monsters, but good PCs are hard to find. One of the problems I had with DDM was finding good but diverse PC/NPC figures; Xeph Soulknives and Shadar-Kai Warriors don't really do it for me. This week's preview minis I really like. They're very dynamic, but also generic enough that a half-dozen of them will still find tabletop play.
What I'm not so hot about are figures like Aldern and Lucrecia---those would be disappointing rares for me, I'd probably trade those off for something flashier that I'd use more often. I know some people really like them, but they're too case-specific for me.
Though, on the topic of humanoid miniatures, there's three areas I think DDM had such poor coverage of that I hope Pathfinder Battles can improve on:
1.) More usable casters at common/uncommon rarity. DDM only had, what, two or three useful druids, and one of them was a rare (Greenfang). And I couldn't pull wizards for the life of me, had to shell out for the rare Adventuring Wizard. Even though I'm not fond of the sculpts, the Heroes & Monsters human druid and elf wizard were a step in the right direction.
2.) More female figures. I'm glad Pathfinder Battles has plenty of gender diversity thus far. I've ended up with numerous players running female PCs, and digging through my collection to find a passable figure for them was a headache.
3.) More halflings and gnomes. Maybe it's just that making small figures is a logistical hassle, but DDM barely covered the core classes for these. I have scads of humans, elves, dwarves, yet maybe a half-dozen different halflings and gnomes (and I was heavy into DDM from Archfiends to Desert). On more than one occasion I had to substitute my horde of Snig the Axes for various small humanoids.
TL;DR: Monsters are cool, PCs are cool, the Runelords set looks incredible, keep making awesome miniatures.
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GAH!
You guys are bad as my nephews.
Don't sword-fight with the minis!
I'll have to disagree with what others have said. I thought there wasn't enough humanoids in DDM. Once you have every race/gender/weapon/armor/shield combo, then, maybe, slow down on the humanoid minis.
These aren't half bad, but I for one am rather hoping that we're getting close to done with humanoids for this set.
We've only barely seen a few previews for the set. I'm certain there will be a ton of monsters too. I for one can't wait to see what else will be in it. Let's see what the whole set contains before we start judging the humanoid vs monster ratio.
By my count it looks like they've previewed 12 PC race minis and 33 monster minis for the set. That's about 1 in 4, which seems right to me.
Of course, depending on how you count "humanoids" the ratio can go up. Goblins, Ogres, and Giants are all "humanoids" in game terms, but clearly aren't usually PCs/NPCs.
Guys, as long as these miniatures are based on Adventure Paths, we're going to pick the appropriate creatures to run the campaign, whether they're humanoids OR monsters.
I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures.
So noted.
But you're going to get loads more of them over the next several years, so harping on the issue is not going to change much.
You're also going to get TONS of monsters. TONS of creatures you do not already have, and TONS of creatures that have never been made before in plastic.
Be patient, please. This is not a one-and-done thing.
This is a set of miniatures designed to support a complete campaign that involves monsters AND humanoids.
We are in this for the long haul.
If this strategy does not appeal to you, I invite you to purchase singles.
Point is with mini production you are always going to need humanoids in the mix. Old collectors need different types and new collectors just need them. They can serve as villains or heroes, and the more variety you have of them the more accurate looking encounters you can form. I know I'm a stickler for minis having the right look and weapons, hell I spend hundreds of dollars to make sure I have the accurate quantity and exact miniature for all encounters. Plus things like humanoids, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, skeletons, and zombies are always going to be a staple of what people want or need for their collection.
And before I changed a my alias I personally made sure I typed out an exhaustive list of what had not been produced in mini form for Erik back in February when he requested advice. So I believe him when he says new monsters will get mini treatment that haven't previous to this.
I agree on the Han Solo double, but really wanted to chime I on the Humanoid vs. Monster Debate. Humanoids are wonderful, as with classes they can represent a variety of different challenge ratings. Monsters are typically only good for a limited span of a parties adventuring. So keep the humanoids coming. And, yes, orcs, bugbears, goblins, gnolls and many more fit in this category as well as the PC races. So give me class specific sculpts in each please!
Guys, as long as these miniatures are based on Adventure Paths, we're going to pick the appropriate creatures to run the campaign, whether they're humanoids OR monsters.
I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures.
So noted.
But you're going to get loads more of them over the next several years, so harping on the issue is not going to change much.
You're also going to get TONS of monsters. TONS of creatures you do not already have, and TONS of creatures that have never been made before in plastic.
Be patient, please. This is not a one-and-done thing.
This is a set of miniatures designed to support a complete campaign that involves monsters AND humanoids.
We are in this for the long haul.
If this strategy does not appeal to you, I invite you to purchase singles.
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to kick the comments off in such an aggressive tone. I meant to throw my 2 copper in, not, cause a fight :P
For what it's worth, I do thing the humanoids you're doing are of nice quality, for the most part. There's a few that make really niche ones that will probably be used once total (mr. i have a face of my shield) for example, but most of them are pretty versatile.
Anyhow, thanks for being one of the rare companies that actually interacts with it's customers. These types of chats are much more interesting when paizo gets involved too ^^
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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And don't get me wrong, critical comments are often as helpful as supportive ones, but I wanted to be clear that there are going to be LOTS more humanoids in previous sets, and even more coming up in this set.
Soon I will do a look at major campaign villains, and I think you'd probably classify ALL of them as ones you would use once. I mean, if a guy with a face on his shield strikes you as too unique, just wait until we get to the guy with skin made out of metal or the dude who looks like Shredder from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Fair warning. :)
I must be a minority :S
Whenever I notice that a Friday update has PCs/NPCs, I always think "Sweet! Will they have this, that or the other thing I'm waiting for?" I'm notorious for playing awkward race/class combos, and being female.. well that just limits my choices for PC minis.
On that note, why is it so hard to find a female halfling or gnome? Please make these in the future! ^-^ Also, we really need a female half-orc ;)
Well, if they cover all the iconics, which I believe they plan to eventually, that's a female half-orc and a female gnome in the mix. :)
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Imrijka the iconic will virtually guarantee a cool female half-orc. We also have a good female half-orc fighter image that looks perfect to be translated into mini form. Beyond that...
Lini will give us a female gnome. We definitely need more good art of halflings and gnomes of either sex, but yeah, we need more of female halflings and gnomes. I know this is a big hole in PPMs and will do what I can to fix it (though it may take me a while).
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Guys, as long as these miniatures are based on Adventure Paths, we're going to pick the appropriate creatures to run the campaign, whether they're humanoids OR monsters.
I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures.
So noted.
But you're going to get loads more of them over the next several years, so harping on the issue is not going to change much.
You're also going to get TONS of monsters. TONS of creatures you do not already have, and TONS of creatures that have never been made before in plastic.
Be patient, please. This is not a one-and-done thing.
This is a set of miniatures designed to support a complete campaign that involves monsters AND humanoids.
We are in this for the long haul.
If this strategy does not appeal to you, I invite you to purchase singles.
I cannot stress how much I love Paizo simply because of the no nonsense, but still respectful way they communicate with their fan base. Kudos, Erik for the straight from the hip style. I've noticed it from pretty much all of the staffers here.
You all welcome comments AND criticisms, but are not afraid to tell it like it is when something is just happening or not happening, along with the reasoning behind the decision, for the good of the overall game.
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D'oh!
Ninja'd!
(Wait, that's _another_ cool female miniature we're sure to eventually do!)
Douena Trestleben?
Imrijka the iconic will virtually guarantee a cool female half-orc. We also have a good female half-orc fighter image that looks perfect to be translated into mini form. Beyond that...
Lini will give us a female gnome. We definitely need more good art of halflings and gnomes of either sex, but yeah, we need more of female halflings and gnomes. I know this is a big hole in PPMs and will do what I can to fix it (though it may take me a while).
I wasn't sure if you planned on going past the core iconics or not. Glad to see you intend to! (Does this mean Lirianne will appear eventually too? X) )
Waiting isn't a problem for me, just knowing they're on the list makes me happy.
Nobody picked up on the real problem with this post:
Unfortunately, Kaven's sword snapped off before we could grab a good photo of him (the paint masters are made of a much more brittle plastic than the final figures)
A friend and I bought a bunch of singles from Heroes & Monsters on the after-market, and 5 of them showed up broken. We've both been buying DDM since Harbinger. Over the grand total of DDM purchased - for both of us combined - we had 3 broken ones. Over half the minis purchased (DDM & Pathfinder) came from the same vendor, so their shipping and handling practices aren't the issue.
I hope this isn't going to be an on-going problem with the PF minis. Aside from that, I love them. Just thought Paizo should be made aware.
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Erik, honestly I have few complaints.
1.) I am running RotR, so almost everyone of these minis is useful. Afterall the set is all about running the Adventure Path.
For those that have no plan to run RotR, then there will be minis that likely will not be as useful to you. Personally, I am stoked about the minis selection for this set.
2.) The set has monster miniatures never seen before. Always a plus.
3.) The set has non-combatants. Something rarely seen, but in my campaigns always needed for bystanders or to add flavor to the situation.
4.) And most importantly of all, we have a company that truly understands the hobby. And an individual that is clearly a true fan of miniatures driving the train. People! Someone is making large sets of NEW miniatures again. We should all be at least appreciative of this.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't let Erik know our likes and dislikes.
My turn. I understand about the situation with the broken sword from a paint master. Like others I too have concerns about the plastic. I sincerely hope the issue with brittle plastic in Heroes and Monsters are corrected with RotR. DDMs were too bendy. But I rarely worried about breakage. It would be revolutionary to the hobby to find a grade of plastic that was firm without being brittle. I would prefer a bendy sword to a broken one.
Later,
Mazra
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just wait until we get to the guy with skin made out of metal or the dude who looks like Shredder from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Fair warning. :)
Awesome! This means we get
Next week, I promise something gross and monstrous!
Sound to me like
Now for this preview:
Jakardros: does he play a larger role in the adventure now? Very nive mini, coul see this used a lot for PC's. Nice scuplt, good colours.
Vale: Wow, this I persoanlly love. This could be favourite humanoid in the set. Just curious, as stated before about the face - looks a little askew near the beard, probably just the angle. Could also do with a wash on the cloak? AZN extra paint stpebut well worht it. Well done!
Kaven: Again loving it. I love playing rogues so a great mini for me. Or a duelist, I'm assuming the missing sword is a rapier?
On the p[lastic issue:
the paint masters are made of a much more brittle plastic than the final figures
How brittle is the mix in RotRL? Personally I have had no issues with H&M, 4 cases and no breakages, and in fact had to work hard to separate some minis from their bases to reuse the base for conversions. I hope the plastic formt hsi set is still close to that consistency - longer objects and limbs remain rigid then. The single buiggest issue I had with DDm was the soft plastic that lead to droopping features - weapons, limbs, bases - oh the bases! I lost count of the number of distorted features on my minis due to the soft plastic, especially in later sets. A floppy sword would just ruin Kaven.
I just want to congratulate you so far paizo, and eric, for the balance between monster and humanoid. It looks about 2:1 in this set and that's about right, but please more females and weapons other tham the old sword/greatsword. Is it worth starting a humanoids thread to list the races and classes most missing form the prepainted scene?
Lastly
Apparently not unless you can come and help us art direct the shots yourself. We do the best we can.
I'll do that, sadly I live in Austalia and have enough trouble just hoping to get to paizocon/gencon - 2013 is the year (I hope)!
The great thing about minis if you think they need some extra shading or a wash on a cloak, you can do it yourself at home with no raise in booster prices for the rest of us. Extra paint steps = increase in pack price.
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Oh yeah, I realise that, and quite often do add a shade, I quite enjoy painting minis when the time presents itself. Just curious as to the degree of difference between these paint masters and the final runs - Eric had eluded to that fact that detail is added over and above that shown here, for instance seonis tatoos. I agree with you TheChozyn the lower the prices can be the better, after all we all just want access to more minis.
By the way if you look at the picture on the product page the packagin has been updated. This was pointed out to me on another thread. Look at the side of the huge booster - that ain't no huge white dragon! Looks like the fourth huge is not what we expected!
Taiga giant (could be gargantuan)
Roc (already one out there from DDM)
Mammoth )(oh please, please, please)
Huge earth elemental (again a servicable one out ther form DM)
The huge white
A huge Blue
cloud giant
huge roper (yes a huge one)
Well only 19 more mini to be revealed.
[/spoiler]
Here I think should be left
1.GOBLIN WARCHANTER (confirmed)
2.GOBLIN DOG (confirmed)
3.WHITE DRAGON Huge (confirmed)
4.Ordikon the mithral mage (confirmed, metal skin)
5.the Scribbler (confirmed, shredder lookalike)
that leave 13 spot to speculate.
6.The Scarecrow, Flesh Golem (sure bet)
7.Khalib, Runelord Apprentice (sure bet)
8.Highlady Athroxis (sure bet)
9.Justice Ironbriar (sure bet)
10.Viorian Dekanti (sure bet)
11.Erylium Quasit
12.Faceless Stalker (Ugothol)
13.Barl Breakbones stone giant necromancer
14.Svevenka Female icy nymph druid
15.decapus The Hidden Beast
16.Wendigo
17.Hound of Tindalos
18.Redcap
19.The Headless Lord/scrag/ogrekin/Night Wyvern
not enough spot left for every thing, sad.
[/spoiler]
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Of your list I think you'll get
1.GOBLIN WARCHANTER (confirmed)
2.GOBLIN DOG (confirmed)
3.WHITE DRAGON - nope. looks like a huge stone golem - kourzag statue!
4.Ordikon the mithral mage (confirmed, metal skin)
5.the Scribbler (confirmed, shredder lookalike)
6.The Scarecrow, Flesh Golem (sure bet)
7.Khalib, Runelord Apprentice (sure bet) not sure he is a sure bet actually, really just another mage with no outstanding uniqueness to his appearance
8.Highlady Athroxis (sure bet)
9.Justice Ironbriar (sure bet)
10.Viorian Dekanti (sure bet)
11.Erylium Quasit
12.Faceless Stalker (Ugothol)
13.Barl Breakbones stone giant necromancer, unlikely since we have the other 3 stone giants
15.decapus The Hidden Beast
17.Hound of Tindalos AND
18.Redcap, I really hope we get these two
19.The Headless Lord/scrag/ogrekin/Night Wyvern, the ogrekin certainly, since eric elusde to this earlier, sadly I think the headless lord, scrag and wyvern were all crossed off in a previous spoiler
I am really hoping for skinsaw cultists, the unique mummy form part 4 (a real outside stretch that one) and eldritch knights. the cultists and knights because you need so many in the two adevtures they appear, and they are unique in appearance.
not enough spot left for every thing, sad.