Advanced Race Guide: Featured Races

vampire/lizardfolk hybrid?

Why is Goblin on the list? They already had an entire player resource devoted to them! They could have had Gnoll instead IMO.

So did every race in Chapter 1 of the ARG. People like to play Goblins and Piazo recognizes that and/ or Piazo has more to say about them.

Also, the Goblin book was Golarion-specific, and there are lots of non-Golarion folks out there who play PF.

Leomund wrote:

I like all the races, but i prefer much the opportunity to play a Lizardfolk, neutral race, not necessary hostile to humanity, than a pseudo demi-vampire Dhampir. I like vampires, but demi_ vampires i dislike the idea of vampires having living children.

I guess you hate folklore from all over the world that talks about vampires having children with mortals...

Untill the "Blade" movies i never heard from such folklore and i surely read a huge load of tales and folklore from all around the world.

Anyway, what i hope more for in this book is the possibility to let players more freedom and choosing with their racial traits, individually, with more drawbacks to flesh them out more.

I find it interesting that none of the Tian Xia races made it onto this list. I'm guessing it's to keep sales on the Dragon Empires Gazetteer / Primer at a respectable level after this book comes out? EDIT: Looks like I'm not entirely correct; Tengu made it onto the list, but EVERYONE knows how much James adores Tengu! :-3

Overall, I think that the list is and was pretty predictable, but it's nice to see an official list. Thanks Sean!

I think one of the big things I'm interested in now is 1) hearing some tidbits about just how much the race building rules have evolved, 2) why build-a-race seems to be on Chapter 4 instead of the aforementioned Chapter 6 (I could just be crazy, though I swore someone said it was going to be at the end of the book, in Chapter 6 or so), and 3) just what, exactly, Paizo has in store to make Kolbolds a more attractive player race option *imagines Tucker's Kobold racial traits*.

I find it interesting that none of the Tian Xia races made it onto this list. I'm guessing it's to keep sales on the Dragon Empires Gazetteer / Primer at a respectable level after this book comes out? EDIT: Looks like I'm not entirely correct; Tengu made it onto the list, but EVERYONE knows how much James adores Tengu! :-3

Overall, I think that the list is and was pretty predictable, but it's nice to see an official list. Thanks Sean!

I think one of the big things I'm interested in now is 1) hearing some tidbits about just how much the race building rules have evolved, 2) why build-a-race seems to be on Chapter 4 instead of the aforementioned Chapter 6 (I could just be crazy, though I swore someone said it was going to be at the end of the book, in Chapter 6 or so), and 3) just what, exactly, Paizo has in store to make Kolbolds a more attractive player race option *imagines Tucker's Kobold racial traits*.

The Tian Xia races didn't make it onto this list because they (with the exception of the tengu) were being designed at the same time this book was being written, and as such we didn't have those rules available until the last minute to the designers of Advanced Race Guide, which meant that we didn't want to put larger sections of the book "at risk" to unforseen future developments.

FURTHERMORE... none of those four non-tengu races are "field tested" yet. I suspect some of them (the kitsune for sure) will end up being pretty popular, but more popular than, say, any of the ones on the list above? Hard to say.

Golden-Esque wrote:

I find it interesting that none of the Tian Xia races made it onto this list. I'm guessing it's to keep sales on the Dragon Empires Gazetteer / Primer at a respectable level after this book comes out? EDIT: Looks like I'm not entirely correct; Tengu made it onto the list, but EVERYONE knows how much James adores Tengu! :-3

Overall, I think that the list is and was pretty predictable, but it's nice to see an official list. Thanks Sean!

I think one of the big things I'm interested in now is 1) hearing some tidbits about just how much the race building rules have evolved, 2) why build-a-race seems to be on Chapter 4 instead of the aforementioned Chapter 6 (I could just be crazy, though I swore someone said it was going to be at the end of the book, in Chapter 6 or so), and 3) just what, exactly, Paizo has in store to make Kolbolds a more attractive player race option *imagines Tucker's Kobold racial traits*.

The Tian Xia races didn't make it onto this list because they (with the exception of the tengu) were being designed at the same time this book was being written, and as such we didn't have those rules available until the last minute to the designers of Advanced Race Guide, which meant that we didn't want to put larger sections of the book "at risk" to unforseen future developments.

FURTHERMORE... none of those four non-tengu races are "field tested" yet. I suspect some of them (the kitsune for sure) will end up being pretty popular, but more popular than, say, any of the ones on the list above? Hard to say.

That's all well and good, Mr. Dinosaur, but ... you do not confirm or deny that everyone knows you love Tengu! :D

Pygon wrote:

*pets his tiefling he got from a GenCon boon*

*crushing jealousy!* ;)

I know there's going to be plenty of mechanics present for these races, but I wonder how much flavor is going to be there for the 6-pager races, especially since it doesn't have to be bound to what's canon in Golarion. Could we see some interesting non-always-evil cultural details or suggestions for races like orcs, goblins, etc.?

I have to admit, I'm still pretty anxious about the race-maker rules. I'm really hoping for the best. The initial draft was frustrating for a lot of reasons and even ignoring pre-reqs I couldn't actually make my homebrew races, but it sounds like the feedback is being taken to heart.

Lizardfolk ought to have been a six page race, due to the rich thematic possiblities of of a cold-blooded egg laying creature with a tail.

Serpentfolk not being on the list is understandable, because they are primarily used as antagonists, but then so are the drow...

Considering PFRPG is setting-neutral, I am surprised by this list.

Ratfolk are getting a six page spread but not Catfolk!!!

You know that catfolk are getting a six page spread, right? They are listed right after Aasimar.

Myself, I never really liked the elemental races, but like the ones from Japanese and Hindu mythology. So I would prefer Vanara, Kitsune, Vishkanya, etc. over Undines, and Oreads. But I have to admit that from what I can tell, other people love the part elemental races.

While I too am disappointed by the lack of Lizzies (in this chapter at any rate: don't forget there's a whole chapter we don't know squat about), all the tools for playing 'em will be there in chapter 4 so I'm not too worried.

Although, given the outpouring of lizard love in this thread, would a "Lizardfolk of Golarion" splatbook be out of the question?

Untill the "Blade" movies i never heard from such folklore and i surely read a huge load of tales and folklore from all around the world.

It is kind of a trend. And the Dhampir reminds me of Drow. Who are in fact much cooler.

Anyway, what i hope more for in this book is the possibility to let players more freedom and choosing with their racial traits, individually, with more drawbacks to flesh them out more.

I think this statement is kind of funny seeing as how Blade originated in comics back in 1973. And besides that we had around the same time Vampire Hunter D, Alucard from Castlevania, and a slew of others.

And the origins of them are from Balkan lore.

Oh yeah, Aasimar!! And what's this? Half-elementals?! Oooh...

So sue me, I think they're cool.

Is there any word yet on how this book will affect which races are legal for PFS?

*pets his tiefling he got from a GenCon boon*

Last I saw, Mark was not ready to make a commitment to that until he has had time to read over the book. But my guess would be that if there is a boon available for a race, then that race will become PFS-legal for everyone after this book comes out. As for the remaining ones that are getting six-page spreads, do non-evil versions of any of them even exist on Golarion? And does Golarion even have Catfolk or Ratfolk?

Pygon wrote:

Is there any word yet on how this book will affect which races are legal for PFS?

*pets his tiefling he got from a GenCon boon*

Last I saw, Mark was not ready to make a commitment to that until he has had time to read over the book. But my guess would be that if there is a boon available for a race, then that race will become PFS-legal for everyone after this book comes out. As for the remaining ones that are getting six-page spreads, do non-evil versions of any of them even exist on Golarion? And does Golarion even have Catfolk or Ratfolk?

There are definitely non-evil aasimar and sylphs, I'm guessing undines, oreads, ifrits, fetchlings, tengu...

We'd kind of prefer that lizardfolk be 0-Hit Die creatures, too, but the system we inherited pegged them at a higher CR, making them inappropriate player character choices for the standard Pathfinder rules.

The race creation guidelines will definitely let you build a cool custom one, though.

But my guess would be that if there is a boon available for a race, then that race will become PFS-legal for everyone after this book comes out.

I've made the same guess, and i asked my local venture captain, he said he didn't know, which must be true, because when he does know something he'll answer "I could tell you, but then i'd have to kill you"

Leomund wrote:

I like all the races, but i prefer much the opportunity to play a Lizardfolk, neutral race, not necessary hostile to humanity, than a pseudo demi-vampire Dhampir. I like vampires, but demi_ vampires i dislike the idea of vampires having living children.

I guess you hate folklore from all over the world that talks about vampires having children with mortals...

Hate is a strong word. I hate nothing.

I dislike the idea, but i'm open to the result. I like the quality of Paizo productions.

For me vampires are undead, and undead don't have child, because they are ... dead.

But it's not hate, and i'm curious to read whhat you write about Dhampyr.

I see the kobolds finally got decent artwork. I hope the same can be said for the dhampir, ratfolk and tieflings...

Since the Dragon Empires new races won't be in the book, I'm assuming that their racial special abilities also won't be in the race builder chapter. Once the book is out, it would be a cool blog post to add the DE races racial abilities as options for the race builder, with corresponding point values, etc. Hope this suggestion gets remembered in the spring.

Why isn't it April yet?

May I suggested pdf-only enhancements to this book, so that you could update in small doses instead of releasing another book with any additional race we might get in between ? You could, for instance, release 1 of the 14 non-core races as a separate file once per month.

We'd kind of prefer that lizardfolk be 0-Hit Die creatures, too, but the system we inherited pegged them at a higher CR, making them inappropriate player character choices for the standard Pathfinder rules.

The race creation guidelines will definitely let you build a cool custom one, though.

So we can make lizardmen that scale with level? Great!

I discovered the Shae in the Bestiary 3 and really thing this race should become playable one.

To develop rules and make lycanthrope playable would be very interesting, as would be balanced templates of half-fiend/celestial, half-dragon and half-ogre.

Rules to create any kind of hybrid,whatever the creatures , is a must. As long as there is a power level/score indicator it's not a problem.

Concerning balance level advancement should be considered. Having +2 Str, natural armor or flying is a huge advantage at level 1 but at level 20 it gives absolutely no advantage. On the other hand a magic resistance 5+lvl is nothing at level 1 but gives a big advantage at level 20...
I think that an advantage that "disappears" as early as level 10 should be considered extremly lightly while evaluating how powerful is a playable race compared to another. Fun should not be taxed!!

Also, it is really a pleasure to speak to Sean K Reynolds, an author who is one of those who tempted me to write in the beginning, give me the pleasure to write. And if for Dhampir we have not completely the same opinion, thanks for your work. And each have his particular imagination. Sorry for my english, i'm a french. But I like your work a lot.

Well, Sean, even if we have not the same opinion, I meant that I estimate and appreciate your work a lot. Thank you for making the players dream.

I guess this will be the first Pathfinder RPG rulebook that will see next to no use in my campaigns. Catfolk, really? Ratfolk, for god's sake? I mean really, who wants to play that? Dhampir? Ugh. I don't want to play anime or Blade/Twilight/Emo stuff. And don't get me started on do-it-yourself-races. This is the way to circus freak party no self-respecting town would even allow in.

The more I read about this book the more disappointing it gets. Too bad.

Keep in mind that the core races get lots of coverage too so even if you are just interested in the core PC races there is going to be material for you.

I see the create-a-race rules as a GM tool for world building more than for players who want to build a pony-monkey circus freak races (though I'm sure there will be those too).

Is there any RPG book where you use 100% of the content? For me there are often big sections that I ignore (such as the Asian classes and equipment are a pretty big example from Ultimate Combat).

Here Here on Kitsune :D

Why is Goblin on the list? They already had an entire player resource devoted to them! They could have had Gnoll instead IMO.

Much like the lizardfolk, gnolls are >0hd races so wouldn't have made it regardless.

Besides, there is always room for more goblin stuff!

I guess this will be the first Pathfinder RPG rulebook that will see next to no use in my campaigns. Catfolk, really? Ratfolk, for god's sake? I mean really, who wants to play that? Dhampir? Ugh. I don't want to play anime or Blade/Twilight/Emo stuff. And don't get me started on do-it-yourself-races. This is the way to circus freak party no self-respecting town would even allow in.

The more I read about this book the more disappointing it gets. Too bad.

Me!

After seeing them in Bestiary 3, I've been jonesing to make a Ratfolk alchemist.

I want this book...
And I love Kobolds (though the art I'm not that fond of, too lizardy, I like my dragon/goblins) so I can't wait to see those options
And I want to grab me some of the Kitsune and Tian Xia races
And I want to play a Shae or find a way to decrease their CR, or hope that I can do justice to them in the make your own race section.

So much goodness, thank you, Paizo.

I discovered the Shae in the Bestiary 3 and really thing this race should become playable one.

And I want to play a Shae or find a way to decrease their CR, or hope that I can do justice to them in the make your own race section.

Really glad to see folks expressing a desire for strange races like this. :)

I love the pic of the Catfolk in the Bestairy 3 and I also like the Vanara. Always liked the Aasimar but was never big on Tieflings. Hopefully there will be some love for Merfolk as well.

Zaister wrote:

I guess this will be the first Pathfinder RPG rulebook that will see next to no use in my campaigns. Catfolk, really? Ratfolk, for god's sake? I mean really, who wants to play that? Dhampir? Ugh. I don't want to play anime or Blade/Twilight/Emo stuff. And don't get me started on do-it-yourself-races. This is the way to circus freak party no self-respecting town would even allow in.

The more I read about this book the more disappointing it gets. Too bad.

Me!

After seeing them in Bestiary 3, I've been jonesing to make a Ratfolk alchemist.

Yes! Ratfolk! I soooo want to play one of these little guys.

My loving Grippli doesn't have new race options? Alas...

Erik Mona wrote:

The race creation guidelines will definitely let you build a cool custom one, though.

So we can make lizardmen that scale with level? Great!

That should increase their natural armor bonus nicely!

Matthew Morris wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

The race creation guidelines will definitely let you build a cool custom one, though.

So we can make lizardmen that scale with level? Great!

That should increase their natural armor bonus nicely!

I was beginning to think I was being too subtle...

I guess this will be the first Pathfinder RPG rulebook that will see next to no use in my campaigns. Catfolk, really? Ratfolk, for god's sake? I mean really, who wants to play that? Dhampir? Ugh. I don't want to play anime or Blade/Twilight/Emo stuff. And don't get me started on do-it-yourself-races. This is the way to circus freak party no self-respecting town would even allow in.

The more I read about this book the more disappointing it gets. Too bad.

More the pity for you on not buying it then. The lead chapter is expansion material for the six non-human core races.

Chapter 2 is a disappointment to me as well, but for different reasons. Catfolk have existed in one form or another since 1st Ed / BECMI D&D (Tabaxi in 1st ed, Fiend Folio, Rakasta in BECMI D&D); Both returned in 2nd Ed.(Rakasta were even a playable race in the Mystara setting); 3rd Ed. saw the advent of the Catfolk under that name (Miniatures Handbook). Ratfolk, have been in the game since 3rd Ed's Oriental Adventures (called Nezumi). Both see heavy use in my campaign (a Pathfinder / 3.5 mix in my personal setting). I'm not overly thrilled by the Dhampir, Tiefling, Aasimar, and elemental races getting a 6 page spread, but I'll deal with it (especially considering Tiefling's get a Pathfinder Companion book in April as well, and Aasimar get one in June). The only thing that really irks me about the featured races is the inclusion of the DROW. I am sick to death of this overused (and over mis-used) elven subrace. Every one I've run across in recent memory is either a Drizzt Do'Urden clone or a mustache twirlling charicature. Back in the day of the old GDQ adventure series they were cool, but they have fallen and fallen far since their heyday in the mid 80's. The six pages devoted to them could have better been put toward the Duergar, Derro, Svirfneblin, or another under-used and under-appreciated race.

And what do you mean circus freak party that no self-respecting town would even allow in? It all depends on you setting. Golarion is fairly cosmopolitan, most of its cities allow in Dwarfs and Elves, Half-orcs and half-elves. Considering that our real world has towns which will run someone out for a significantly different skin-tone, I'd say that's pretty tolerant. Beast-folk are not necessarily Anime inspired (although they are a staple of Anime), they could just as easily be used to run a redwall-esque campaign, and they are central to certain Aisian and African mythologies, to say nothing of the prevalence that talking animals play in the Austrailian Aborigine's Dreamtime (small step to anthropomorphizing them). As for the Dhampir, although I am not particularly fond of them, they do work well in a setting based on Balkan folktales.

Once again, my home campaign has several beast races in it (Catfolk (5 distinct species), Canine-folk (3 distinct species), Ratfolk (called Vermen), and Lagomen (Hares and Rabbits, distictly different races)), but no Elves as a PC race (full-blood elves are very nearly extinct, half-bloods have banded together and stablized as their own race), and no gnomes or halflings (instead I have a race called the Kithkin and inspired by Magic the Gathering Lorowyn / Shadowmoor expansions, which has some of the traits of both). And NPC's are more or less accepting of these races as normal (there are bigots of all stripes possible and I do have a few very racist NPCs who jack prices on or refuse to serve characters of certain races)

No love for the Lizard Folk?

Problem is the Hit Die they get. I bet they would be featured if that got removed.

brock wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

The race creation guidelines will definitely let you build a cool custom one, though.

So we can make lizardmen that scale with level? Great!

That should increase their natural armor bonus nicely!

I was beginning to think I was being too subtle...

That would be my +2 Christmas Shiraz bonus to sense motive ;)

And don't get me started on do-it-yourself-races. This is the way to circus freak party no self-respecting town would even allow in.

Some of us have or prefer settings with a wider variety of races and a wider spectrum of what falls under "accepted norm" for most/some civilizations.

Zaister wrote:

And don't get me started on do-it-yourself-races. This is the way to circus freak party no self-respecting town would even allow in.

Some of us have or prefer settings with a wider variety of races and a wider spectrum of what falls under "accepted norm" for most/some civilizations.

Yeah, we get enough of humans every day in the real world. I want a game setting where non-humans mix with humans freely, like in Star Trek, Star Wars, or the various Final Fantasy worlds. I also almost never play a human in fantasy rpg's.

Yeah, we get enough of humans every day in the real world. I want a game setting where non-humans mix with humans freely, like in Star Trek, Star Wars, or the various Final Fantasy worlds. I also almost never play a human in fantasy rpg's.

Heck, I do play humans quite a bit, but yeah I want fantastic races in my fantasy settings, and it does get irritating to see all fantasy settings bound by the same expectations as generic LotR medieval European fantasy-land.

That's why I have a lot of hopes tied up with this book. I'm really hoping it can help me with the races in my setting and that it can help get some stuff out of existing races that you can't get out of Golarion canon.

I play humans all the time and I am glad to finally find races I would actually want play other then humans. I can't wait for this book and many more options for new and old races I would want to play.

I gave away most of my gencon race boons but held onto a tiefling one. Any chance I could use that with one of the alternate racial abilities?

Aventhar wrote:

No love for the Lizard Folk?

Problem is the Hit Die they get. I bet they would be featured if that got removed.

Yeah. It's too bad Pathfinder isn't Paizo's game. Oh wait... :)

Are there some arcane and esoteric rules somewhere that say Paizo can't have stats for a 0-HD race and call them lizardfolk?

The fact that lizard folk exist already?

Aventhar wrote:

No love for the Lizard Folk?

Problem is the Hit Die they get. I bet they would be featured if that got removed.

For Xendrik Expeditions (the RPGA Eberron organized play) they allowed Gnolls without racial HD as one of the race options, so I suspect that's the easiest fix for Gnolls, Lizardfolk, etc.

Since 3.0 ran with the idea of monsters having class levels, I've always skipped the racial HD for the medium sized humanoids anyway, and replaced them with levels of Barbarian, Fighter or Ranger, as appopriate. (Well, I used levels of Warrior, at first, but then decided to stop playing softball with my players...)

I did the same with Mind Flayers. Ditch the racial HD, just give them appropriate levels of Sorcerer or Wizard (or Psion) and run with it. Much more fun, for the GM. :>

(Humanoid) Racial HD are generally inferior to class levels anyway.

Yeah. It's too bad Pathfinder isn't Paizo's game. Oh wait... :)

Are there some arcane and esoteric rules somewhere that say Paizo can't have stats for a 0-HD race and call them lizardfolk?

One of the major goals of PFRPG was backwards compatibility. No rule, but changing it would have made PFRPG less compatible with any previously published Lizardfolk stuff.

We'd kind of prefer that lizardfolk be 0-Hit Die creatures, too, but the system we inherited pegged them at a higher CR, making them inappropriate player character choices for the standard Pathfinder rules.

The race creation guidelines will definitely let you build a cool custom one, though.

I'm sure it will be in there, but I'm hoping the book comes with something in the race section that, for lack of better words, "watering down" some of the more powerful races. This way you can play some of the cool races that a DM might say claim is inappropriate for play, but could play a more player friendly or PFS friendly version. I'm thinking it might just end up more of using Chapter 4 to do this at the game table. Though I think a more formal "Here is our idea what to do" would solve some problems for players and DMs in the long run.