I will agree that the amulet has more limitations -- however it is also much more potent in that you can use it on the fly in combat (or at any other time). The most chosen schools I see with it are conjuration and transmutation. I don't see any problem with being a universalist either -- I enjoy having free metamagic rod like effects.
I'll argue the "plenty to spare" part of feats for wizards. I find that if you want to survive and not have situations where you suddenly completely suck you need feats like defensive combat training and combat casting. Great Fortitude is never a bad choice, and then if you are using spells with save throws spell focus/greater spell focus become more needed as does persistent spell (and bouncing spell). Spell Penetration and greater spell penetration are always good ones to have... as is eschew materials (for grappled casting) among others...
Not saying that these are mandatory... but then neither is the fighter taking Iron Will.
I'll argue the "plenty to spare" part of feats for wizards. I find that if you want to survive and not have situations where you suddenly completely suck you need feats like defensive combat training and combat casting. Great Fortitude is never a bad choice, and then if you are using spells with save throws spell focus/greater spell focus become more needed as does persistent spell (and bouncing spell). Spell Penetration and greater spell penetration are always good ones to have... as is eschew materials (for grappled casting) among others...
I'd add Improved Initiative to the list of wizard feat pre-reqs. Getting to act before the BBEG does is what keeps wise wizards alive.
Fast Study is indeed very, very useful but hey, it's time for wizards to get some love... :-)
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I imagine the reason they are called arcane discoveries is that they are the product of personal research. So yeah, keep your grubby, unlearned sorcerous hands off of these! :)
Sorcerers have to learn how to not blow up stuff when their magic shows up. Wizards take years learning spells that have limitations to keep them from blowing stuff up.
My point? It's harder learning your a Sorcerer than training to be a Wizard! :)
it's time for wizards to get some love... :-)
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If I were a betting man, I'd put some gp down on the idea that Paizo's decided that the alchemist's ability to do the same thing - i.e., rearrange his extracts prepared list with a minute's preparation - hasn't broken anything, so there's little reason to believe that it would break the wizard either.
I'll be interested in knowing if they're right in actual play, but I can definitely see the perspective.
If I were a betting man, I'd put some gp down on the idea that Paizo's decided that the alchemist's ability to do the same thing - i.e., rearrange his extracts prepared list with a minute's preparation - hasn't broken anything, so there's little reason to believe that it would break the wizard either.
I'll be interested in knowing if they're right in actual play, but I can definitely see the perspective.
I agree - give alchemists the full wizard spell list ;p
Professor, by RAW wizards need a nice comfortable place free from distractions and with plenty of light to prepare spells. Fast Study doesn't change that.
I just don't think that a wizard is going to be in that many situations where he urgently needs a spell, but has a safe and comfortable environment in which to prepare it. In most cases, 1 minute or 15 minutes isn't going to matter too much, and in others the urgent situation if far to distracting for the wizard to concentrate.
Now there are some situations where this will definitely be useful, and I think the cost of a feat is appropriate for the benefit.
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I just don't think that a wizard is going to be in that many situations where he urgently needs a spell, but has a safe and comfortable environment in which to prepare it. In most cases, 1 minute or 15 minutes isn't going to matter too much, and in others the urgent situation if far to distracting for the wizard to concentrate.
Now there are some situations where this will definitely be useful, and I think the cost of a feat is appropriate for the benefit.
(nod) The argument would be this, in essence: if initiative has been rolled, then even one minute is too long. If initiative hasn't been rolled, then the difference between 1 minute and 15 minutes is only worth a feat slot (particularly since, in order to use that element of the ability at all, you have to leave spell slots open - i.e., to reduce your available capabilities overall).
Like I said, I'm not necessarily convinced, but I can see the argument.
I'll just add very cool. Especially the discoveries look cool.
+1
I too am wondering why Arcane Discoveries (stepping on the alchemist much?) aren't simply wizard-only feats. Even if they have special mechanics governing them, they could still easily be made into feats.
After all, other types of feats that have special rules governing them are combat feats, item creation feats, metamagic feats, etc. Organizing feats into groups by their governing rules isn't exactly a new deal.
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I too am wondering why Arcane Discoveries (steeping on the alchemist much?) aren't simply wizard-only feats. Even if they have special mechanics governing them, they could still easily be made into feats.
After all, other types of feats that have special rules governing them are combat feats, item creation feats, metamagic feats, etc. Organizing feats into groups by their governing rules isn't exactly a new deal.
As Blazej noted, if they were just feats, they would be available in much larger quantity - a wizard, regardless of race, gets at least 15 feats over 20 levels, but could only pick up 4 arcane discoveries (or 5 if you can swap Scribe Scroll for one, which I am rather hoping is the case, for PFS reasons).
it's time for wizards to get some love... :-)What.
Universalist wizards don't get any love til Metamagic Mastery shows up.
Professor, by RAW wizards need a nice comfortable place free from distractions and with plenty of light to prepare spells. Fast Study doesn't change that.
Ok, but I don't see how leaning against a wall with a Light spell hovering above his head doesn't count, unless you make wizards roll that huge concentration check every time they memorize at all. :p
I just don't think that a wizard is going to be in that many situations where he urgently needs a spell, but has a safe and comfortable environment in which to prepare it. In most cases, 1 minute or 15 minutes isn't going to matter too much, and in others the urgent situation if far to distracting for the wizard to concentrate.
Now there are some situations where this will definitely be useful, and I think the cost of a feat is appropriate for the benefit.
I suppose what it comes down to is that it's not much use in combat and that's why people discredit it.
It's main use is in taking what was already a not so good balancing act of making it take fifteen minutes and sheering it down to 1 minute.
Simply put, letting wizards fill spell slots after the fact even when it took fifteen minutes was really, really good as is. It was one of their defining "Hah hah screw you, I'm a wizard!" abilities that a lot of people overlooked. Making it even better is the wrong move.
Arcane discoveries are a new option presented in Ultimate Magic. A wizard can learn an arcane discovery in place of a regular feat or wizard bonus feat.
Just to point out...they can get more than four discoveries, based on the tiny amount of info we have. Though I honestly would laugh at most wizards who leave spell slots open, unless they're for utility spells. I sure wouldn't want to spend a minute suddenly trying to memorize that suddenly vital Haste or Expeditious Retreat...
Ok, but I don't see how leaning against a wall with a Light spell hovering above his head doesn't count, unless you make wizards roll that huge concentration check every time they memorize at all. :p
The alternative being telling the player they can't prepare more spells in the middle of combat...
see they havent addressed the true power of the hedgehog. release your familiar on the battlefield with the closest fantasy equivalent to a toilet paper roll. as he's wandering around with the tube on hus little head as hardened criminals and undead with no soul go awww he's so cute and stop to watch... have the party rogue stab them I'n the back.
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The alternative being telling the player they can't prepare more spells in the middle of combat...
Ok, but I don't see how leaning against a wall with a Light spell hovering above his head doesn't count, unless you make wizards roll that huge concentration check every time they memorize at all. :p
I don't see players ever spending a 11 rounds to prepare and cast a spell in the middle of combat.
I'm coming down on the side of Fast Study being an incredible feat/discovery. In fact, it kind of takes some steam out of the alchemist. In play, my alchemist on a spy mission was able to quickly whip up several extracts to overcome various obstacles the party faced as we advanced; I would posit that it's a lot easier to hide in one spot for one minute than it is for 15 minutes undetected, especially in a place with regular patrols or your average dungeon.
Should I play a wizard with this option, it's ranking right up with spell focus, spell penetration, or point blank shot/precise shot. It falls just short of "must have all the time".
I hope we get some cold based Hex powers for the Witch. I for one would love to see a Major Hex that functions like the Piercing Cold feat described in Dungeons and Dragons: Frostburn. Oh, and perhaps a Grand Hex that functions like the Fimbulwinter spell.
Also, I'd really love to see some Sorcerer pimp-age. They're gonna have a hard time competing with Fast Study unless something good comes out for them.
Also, I'd really love to see some Sorcerer pimp-age. They're gonna have a hard time competing with Fast Study unless something good comes out for them.
Won't happen. Sorcerers are the red-headed stepchildren of pathfinder.
I mean compared to any other spontaneous caster they stink, and compared to other full casters they stink even more. The human bonus from the APG just barely keeps them in the running as casters.
Did anyone out there notice the two familiars they previewed were a fox and a hedgehog? Anyone out there at Paizo a Genesis fan?
Only if the Fox can Fly and the Hedgehog can cast Haste.
I am sorely hoping that all arcane casters get access to arcane discoveries. If not, I think this is one houserule I'm going to have to make before the book's even in my hands.
That hedgehog is SO gonna get magic item to castb expeditious retreat
o wait i see what yall are doing there sonic and tails yeah totally.......
Being on the Patron spell list means the witch automatically learns it without investing other resources to learning the spell.Healing: 2nd—remove fear, 4th—lesser restoration, 6th—remove disease, 8th—restoration, 10th—cleanse**, 12th—pillar of life**, 14th—greater restoration, 16th—mass cure critical wounds, 18th—true resurrection.Come to think of it, didn't you remove phantasmal killer as 4th level spell on the trickery patron? I figured it was because the witch got that spell on this level anyway. So is it intended that the healing patron gets remove diseae as 3rd level spell - just like any other witch? I understand Mass Cure Critical as it comes a level sooner than normal, but this...?
Any chance that this gets changed? Maybe to Cure Serious early or Sacred Bond? I think those are the only 3rd level healing spells a witch doesn't get anyway.
Well, the same thing could have been said for Phantasmal Killer on the Trickery patron, which in fact was changed in the errata.
Also, I believe that it is quite unlikely for this to get changed because the book has already been sent to the printer.
Again: It might get changed in the errata.
I'd just like to know if this is the first patron that has a spell level with almost no real benefit or if it was an oversight that might be corrected in the future.
Looking at the last preview (bomb discoveries recommended for the Vivisectionist), I don't think the material shown here is 100% fool-proof.
Being on the Patron spell list means the witch automatically learns it without investing other resources to learning the spell.
No it means they f*cked up. Just as they did when they gave the Oracle of life mass cure critical wounds as a domain spell.
Also, I believe that it is quite unlikely for this to get changed because the book has already been sent to the printer.
ever heard of errata?
So why do Paizo have this problem with healing domains, healing Mysteries, healing Patron?
Because with the exception of heal and mass heal,...healing spells SUCKS!!!
Did anyone out there notice the two familiars they previewed were a fox and a hedgehog? Anyone out there at Paizo a Genesis fan?
For a second I was racking my brain trying to think of some obscure Genesis lyrics, then I realized you meant SEGA Genesis. So a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. Gotcha.
Simply put, letting wizards fill spell slots after the fact even when it took fifteen minutes was really, really good as is. It was one of their defining "Hah hah screw you, I'm a wizard!" abilities that a lot of people overlooked. Making it even better is the wrong move.
This.
And multimorph is not better. I wonder how exaclty these discoveries are gained to be so much powerful.
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Did anyone out there notice the two familiars they previewed were a fox and a hedgehog? Anyone out there at Paizo a Genesis fan?For a second I was racking my brain trying to think of some obscure Genesis lyrics, then I realized you meant SEGA Genesis. So a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. Gotcha.
It's not Genesis, it's MEGADRIVE! ;)
So... does Polymorph Any Object + Multimorph = Transforming to pretty much whatever you want as much as you want? ...or am I misunderstanding how something works here?
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Did anyone out there notice the two familiars they previewed were a fox and a hedgehog? Anyone out there at Paizo a Genesis fan?For a second I was racking my brain trying to think of some obscure Genesis lyrics, then I realized you meant SEGA Genesis. So a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. Gotcha.
Oh now I see! I was wondering if Phil Collins was the Hedgehog and Peter Gabriel was the Fox or something...
It all becomes clear now.
Healing: 2nd—remove fear, 4th—lesser restoration, 6th—remove disease, 8th—restoration, 10th—cleanse**, 12th—pillar of life**, 14th—greater restoration, 16th—mass cure critical wounds, 18th—true resurrection.Come to think of it, didn't you remove phantasmal killer as 4th level spell on the trickery patron? I figured it was because the witch got that spell on this level anyway. So is it intended that the healing patron gets remove diseae as 3rd level spell - just like any other witch? I understand Mass Cure Critical as it comes a level sooner than normal, but this...?
Any chance that this gets changed? Maybe to Cure Serious early or Sacred Bond? I think those are the only 3rd level healing spells a witch doesn't get anyway.
Being on the Patron spell list means the witch automatically learns it without investing other resources to learning the spell.
Also, I believe that it is quite unlikely for this to get changed because the book has already been sent to the printer.
Well they were errors in the APG Patron spell lists and they go an errata, besides the last preview had errors too (bomb feats for a variant without bombs).
It´s not the end of the world, and I will buy the book, it´s just bad luck that it happened in the preview.
Um...have you ever seen or held a hedgehog? there's no offensive attack because they can't attack you. At best you might take an 1/8th of a point of gumming damage.
I've seen one. He'd run really fast, jump and then curl into a ball mid-air to kill monsters.
True resurrection? If you need iy you visit a cleric.
What cleric? The party doesn't have a cleric, and they're just about the only characters of level 17 and up that would help the party.
Remember that in the Pathfinder standard Campaign Setting, as well as in the games of many, many people, high-level characters are extremely rare. You can't just "visit a cleric" of near-epic levels, since there might not even be one in the country you happen to be in. And if there is, he might not sit there on his hands just waiting for you to come to him so he can bring your friend back.
The witch is a class that can serve as healer if you don't have a cleric on board. This enables them to do so better than before.
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If the were just arcane feats characters would be able to pick them at a increased pace and not have to really debate which arcane discovery to get because they can just get what they want easily. With arcane discoveries a wizard would get to choose only four at most (in addition to other options they have), but as feats they would be able to get about twelve chances to get one of these discoveries (which may push them from being rare to common).What makes an Arcane Discovery different than a feat? Why not just make them feats?
We already have Teamwork feats & combat feats so why not Arcane feats? It seems like just a new name for an arcane class feat why the new name?
Am I missing somthing?
But the blog entry saysthey can be chosen in place of a wizard feat OR a regular feat.
Wow, fast study is powerful.
Look forward to see those new winter spells in action. They sound fun.
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I am sorely hoping that all arcane casters get access to arcane discoveries. If not, I think this is one houserule I'm going to have to make before the book's even in my hands.I on the other hand am not of the camp that sorcerers should get everything. They've got UMD, feats, and bloodlines, and the Charisma to have a good time on Saturday night. Wizards need some form of benefit for all those dates they miss out on while studying.
Like being able to planar bind a succubus sooner?
I on the other hand am not of the camp that sorcerers should get everything. They've got UMD, feats, and bloodlines, and the Charisma to have a good time on Saturday night. Wizards need some form of benefit for all those dates they miss out on while studying.
My sorceress has an 18 intelligence, max ranks in spellcraft, knowledge (arcana), knowledge (planes) and would like to get something out of her in-depth study of her bloodline and the nature of sorcery and magic itself, thank you very much. >:[
If your Sorceress has 18 int then what are her other stats?