Magic Archetypes

Vivisection is very important to understanding how biological processes work in the absences of MRIs and other non-invasive imaging devices! Stupid hippy liberal clerics calling it evil!

Wait, a new extract called Anthropomorphic Animal? For a vivisectionist?

Why hello there, Doctor Moreau! I didn't recognize you with that champagne bucket on your head. XD Heh-heh, the furries have invaded Golarion.

More seriously, the more I see of Ultimate Magic, the more I want to get a copy ASAP.

I'm surprised on a rather serious omission for the list of Witch archetypes, the one modeled on the Order of the Golden Dawn, the Masonic type witch, as opposed to more Diannic motifs.

Vivisection is very important to understanding how biological processes work in the absences of MRIs and other non-invasive imaging devices! Stupid hippy liberal clerics calling it evil!

Maybe if we just use [INSERT NAME OF DISLIKED RACE] no one will care?

I'm surprised on a rather serious omission for the list of Witch archetypes, the one modeled on the Order of the Golden Dawn, the Masonic type witch, as opposed to more Diannic motifs.

Wouldn't the Order of the Golden Dawn be more of an archetype for wizards?

I'm willing to bet that the Synthesist is the hinted at Summoner archtype that let's you put evolutions on yourself instead of an Eidolon.

The Crossblooded and Sound Stirker archtypes look interesting too...

I've got to order this book!

So we go from zero archetypes in the APG for Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards to 4 for Clerics, 2 for Sorcerers, and a great big whopping ONE for Wizards. It's progress, I guess, but still... Not what I was hoping for, at all.

Aw, while Theologian is a much needed archetype for Cleric, I'm a little disappointed that we don't have a Missionary archetype in this. Clerics can evangelize without weapons, too, y'know!

Does a vivisectionist still get Throw Anything? (with or without the alchemist-only perks?)

LazarX wrote:

I'm surprised on a rather serious omission for the list of Witch archetypes, the one modeled on the Order of the Golden Dawn, the Masonic type witch, as opposed to more Diannic motifs.

Wouldn't the Order of the Golden Dawn be more of an archetype for wizards?

I'm of the opinion that you can have both cakes and eat it too. But the list of archetypes is lacking that urban equivalent to the village hedgewife. Someone who just MIGHT be mistaken for a wizard by those who don't know better. The would be folks who are educated and urbane but say research Ossirian relics and beliefs to frame thier beliefs just as the Masonics in say "Peggy Sue Got Married" use Egyptian or Illuminati motifs.

And more importantly, this would give us good reason to bring Fezzes to Golarian. Fezzes are cool.

*A sound of thunder and lighting as the lights go out briefly"

"Okay the girl's gone. Let's play cards!"

On a more serious note, the other reason I see Masonic type as witchs instead of wizards is that Masonics are cooperative they work together much like a coven does. Wizards for the most part... work alone with at most an assistant or an apprentice.

Hmm, Broodmaster Summoner. I'm guessing he get's more than one eidelon, or he can summon multiple summons for a penalty on his eidelon.

Interesting on the Wizards, more eastern archetypes. Most eastern mythology has 5 elements, with either metal, wood, or both, depending on the mythology.

I LOVE ME SOME ARCHETYPES! I did a happy clapping bounce with an ambiguously camp "oOOOooooo!"

I dont know what a "Psychonaut" is, but I'm very excited about it. Clone master also looks cool. And Storm Druid...

Crossblooded bloodline? As in, being able to pick more than one? If that's the case... *twirls mustache*

Yay for archetypes for clerics, sorcerers, and wizards! I'll happily take the cloistered cleric and read the separatist and theologian. Some of those sorcerer and oracle archetypes sound fun too (wildblooded anyone?)!

If sneak attack replaces bombs for the vivisectionist, then why would poison bomb, sticky bomb or plague bomb be a recommended discovery for them, since those modify the bomb feature they don't have?

How about fixing the recommendations on the vivisectionist?

Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the vivisectionist archetype: alchemical simulacrum*, concentrate poison, doppelganger simulacrum*, feral mutagen, parasitic twin*, plague bomb*, poison bomb, preserve organs*, sticky bomb, tentacle*, tumor familiar*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.

Considering his doesn't have the bomb ability those seem like they would be rather useless.

Yay for chirugeon (was hoping for a healer-alchemist), but boo for no alchemist archetype that could replace the artficer. Oh well... looks like I get to do it myself.

Awesome.
Sauce.

I cannot wait to get my hands on this book. I'm particularly intrigued by Men[i]hir Savant, if I was forced to pick just one. The stuff for the new classes is particularly inspiring by the looks of it.

How about fixing the recommendations on the vivisectionist?

vivsectionist wrote:

Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the vivisectionist archetype: alchemical simulacrum*, concentrate poison, doppelganger simulacrum*, feral mutagen, parasitic twin*, plague bomb*, poison bomb, preserve organs*, sticky bomb, tentacle*, tumor familiar*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.

Considering his doesn't have the bomb ability those seem like they would be rather useless.

I hope there's an explanation for why those are on the list. Either that, or I hope this isn't a sign of the proofreading and rules coherency of the book.

Monk: The high-fantasy qinggong monk archetype.

Jedi? Did I hear Jedi?

Clerics can evangelize without weapons, too, y'know!

Maybe that's what the Preacher archtype for the Inquisitor is for?

So we go from zero archetypes in the APG for Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards to 4 for Clerics, 2 for Sorcerers, and a great big whopping ONE for Wizards. It's progress, I guess, but still... Not what I was hoping for, at all.

There'll be some more archetypes for clerics, sorcerers, and wizards in "Inner Sea Magic" as well, due out at Gen Con. Getting some more options for those three is a big part of this book's goal, in fact.

Plus a few more in the "Pathfinder Society Field Guide" due out a month or two before that.

Looking forward to this book.

Was wishing for a little more archetypes for the witch...

One question what does

'high-fantasy qinggong monk archetype.'

mean?

Looking forward to this book.

Was wishing for a little more archetypes for the witch...

One question what does

'high-fantasy qinggong monk archetype.'

mean?

Please say Jedi. Please say Jedi.

Kvantum wrote:

So we go from zero archetypes in the APG for Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards to 4 for Clerics, 2 for Sorcerers, and a great big whopping ONE for Wizards. It's progress, I guess, but still... Not what I was hoping for, at all.

There'll be some more archetypes for clerics, sorcerers, and wizards in "Inner Sea Magic" as well, due out at Gen Con. Getting some more options for those three is a big part of this book's goal, in fact.

Plus a few more in the "Pathfinder Society Field Guide" due out a month or two before that.

*sigh*

I'm hoping these are world specific archtypes? Not generic ones? As I hate it when companies spread what should be core rules out into world books. Hated it when WoTC did it, hate it if Paizo starts it.

Kvantum wrote:

So we go from zero archetypes in the APG for Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards to 4 for Clerics, 2 for Sorcerers, and a great big whopping ONE for Wizards. It's progress, I guess, but still... Not what I was hoping for, at all.

There'll be some more archetypes for clerics, sorcerers, and wizards in "Inner Sea Magic" as well, due out at Gen Con. Getting some more options for those three is a big part of this book's goal, in fact.

Plus a few more in the "Pathfinder Society Field Guide" due out a month or two before that.

OK, I can accept that.

Still, folks who don't have subscriptions to everything might be kind of ticked. There really should have been more in this book.

John Kretzer wrote:

Looking forward to this book.

Was wishing for a little more archetypes for the witch...

One question what does

'high-fantasy qinggong monk archetype.'

mean?

Please say Jedi. Please say Jedi.

You're probably safer thinking Naruto or Bleach rather than Jedi.

James Jacobs wrote:

Kvantum wrote:

So we go from zero archetypes in the APG for Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards to 4 for Clerics, 2 for Sorcerers, and a great big whopping ONE for Wizards. It's progress, I guess, but still... Not what I was hoping for, at all.

There'll be some more archetypes for clerics, sorcerers, and wizards in "Inner Sea Magic" as well, due out at Gen Con. Getting some more options for those three is a big part of this book's goal, in fact.

Plus a few more in the "Pathfinder Society Field Guide" due out a month or two before that.

OK, I can accept that.

Still, folks who don't have subscriptions to everything might be kind of ticked. There really should have been more in this book.

If they're world specific, then that's fine.

If they're generic things that should be in Core rules rather than Setting supplements... yeah, gonna be really ticked.

You're probably safer thinking Naruto or Bleach rather than Jedi.

I'm not much for Anime, so I don't know those characters. I've heard of them, but that's it.

I dont know what a "Psychonaut" is, but I'm very excited about it. Clone master also looks cool. And Storm Druid...

It was one of the best platform games ever that no body played. It was so delayed that it was released at the cusp of the XBox -> XBox 360 transition and no body noticed, but it was AMAZING!

That being said...

In game something psionic would be my only guess if the idea germinated from the game.

And if it did kudos

A few quick notes here before things get too far off topic.

The cleric, sorcerer, and wizard get a fair number of other options in their writeups in this book. I am hoping to look at this material in later previews. These classes are very tricky to write archtypes for due to the fact that either A) They already have the concept built in (see Sorcerer bloodlines) or B) They have relatively few discrete rules components that we can swap (see Cleric)

That said, you will get a lot of good meaty rules for these classes.

As for Campaign books with archetypes, these will be world focused.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

This is an odd thing to wonder but I wonder if any of the druid archtypes don't have wildshape.

You could theoretically do a cleric archetype for each domain, similar to the Undead Lord for the Death domain.

How about fixing the recommendations on the vivisectionist?

vivsectionist wrote:

Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the vivisectionist archetype: alchemical simulacrum*, concentrate poison, doppelganger simulacrum*, feral mutagen, parasitic twin*, plague bomb*, poison bomb, preserve organs*, sticky bomb, tentacle*, tumor familiar*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.

Considering his doesn't have the bomb ability those seem like they would be rather useless.

Grr. That is just my luck. I am looking into this typo.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

*sigh*

I'm hoping these are world specific archtypes? Not generic ones? As I hate it when companies spread what should be core rules out into world books. Hated it when WoTC did it, hate it if Paizo starts it.

The whole point of putting them into the Inner Sea Magic book is that they're world-specific archetypes. But since Golarion is a relatively "baseline" world as far as fantasy goes, they should be easy to transport into other worlds like Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms or whatever.

Anyway... sorry if you hate it when companies "spread core content into world books," but that's just something you're going to have to learn to ignore or otherwise deal with, cause I'm not interested in ONLY doing "core content" in the hardcover rulebook line.

We've been putting new rules content in non rulebook products from the very first Pathfinder product, and we're going to KEEP doing it. In the Adventure Paths themselves we've had monsters, feats, spells, prestige classes, magic items, traits, sorcerer bloodlines, archetypes, and more show up. Often, they'll show up there first and eventually transition into a hardcover book, in fact.

But part of the reason we built the new game was to give us rules to play with too, after all. But it's hardly something we're going to "start" doing with Inner Sea Magic since we've already been doing this very thing the whole time.

Still, folks who don't have subscriptions to everything might be kind of ticked. There really should have been more in this book.

The book's only as big as it is. We can't put everything we'll ever do into the book. I'd rather think folks would be delighted that they'll have MORE options to look forward to, even beyond what's in this one book, rather than being ticked because we had the gall to keep providing them new content.

I know that I'm more interested in writing for folks who want Paizo stuff than I am writing for folks who get angry that we want to keep creating stuff for them. Nor am I interested in walking on eggshells around people who are just looking/hoping for a reason to get angry.

Very cool, looking forward to what else is in the book too.

I dont know what a "Psychonaut" is, but I'm very excited about it...

Beware the cows! Not all milk is enriched!

i wonder if there will be anything in the book for the 4 classes not getting archetypes

So.. just another quick note...

This is not just a big book of archetypes and class material. We did not want this book to just be "The AGP with a focus on magic". We wanted this to be a sourcebook on magic itself. As such, there a good footprint for class material, but there is also a lot of material on using magic in your game, from both sides of the screen.

In the coming weeks, that is going to become quite clear. Lets leave the discussion of other books out of this preview thread.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I just wanna say that all of these archetypes look GREAT!!! Im especially intrigued by the cleric and witch archetypes. Can't wait till may!!!

I am very interested in the all the alchemist, inquisitor, summoner, and witch archetypes as well as the geisha, dragon shaman, menhir savant, mooncaller, pack lord, reincarnated druid, storm druid, high-fantasy qinggong monk, dual-cursed oracle, enlightened philosopher, possessed oracle, seer, stargazer, oathbound paladin, the magic trap using trapper, crossblooded, and wildblooded archetypes. I am also very interested in the metal elementalist and wood elementalist wizard schools as I was in the middle of creating my own - which I see no point in continuing to work on now that Paizo have created their own.

This is really a very interesting blog update today. I just wish each of the archetype names had also come with a short descriptive sentence as well. But, I can be thankful for just getting what we got for now. I can't wait for next week's update now.

I just wanted to say Thanks for the preview :-) The Vivisectionist is perfect for an alchemist I am already playing!

Except for the part where the Master Chymist advances bomb damage and not sneak attack. But that is NOT a complaint. Because this book looks to be fantastic, thanks again for allowing me to spend my money on such lovely products :-)

What we need is an alchemist archtype that gives you a creepy psychic tumor on your chest named Kuato...

Very cool, looking forward to what else is in the book too.

+1

What we need is an alchemist archtype that gives you a creepy psychic tumor on your chest named Kuato...

They're saving that for the book on Akiton. ;)

Torturous Transformation: At 7th level, a vivisectionist adds anthropomorphic animal to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract. When he uses this extract, he injects it into an animal as part of a 2-hour surgical procedure. By using multiple doses of this extract as part of the surgery, he multiplies the duration by the number of extracts used.

At 9th level, a vivisectionist adds awaken and baleful polymorph to his formula book as 3rd-level extracts. When he uses the awaken and baleful polymorph extract, he injects it into the target (not a plant) as part of a 24-hour surgical procedure. He can make anthropomorphic animal permanent on a creature by spending 7,500 gp.
At 15th level, a vivisectionist adds regenerate to his formula book as a 5th-level extract.

Fun with classic literature.

What we need is an alchemist archtype that gives you a creepy psychic tumor on your chest named Kuato...

Under the discoveries section of the Vivisectionist it lists "Tumor Familiar" as a discovery ;-)

What we need is an alchemist archtype that gives you a creepy psychic tumor on your chest named Kuato...

Umm... you are going to be pleased with a few of the discoveries in this book.

:)

Sean and I like making Total Recall jokes far too much.

Jason