GM ZD Breaking the Storm Arc (Inactive)

Game Master Z...D...

I have to admit, until I realized rage and hunt prey don't play well together, I was very tempted to multiclass Ionic with spirit barbarian.

Happy New Year everyone! I have had so much fun doing this monster hunt with you!

Agreed, happy new year all.

That said, my posts will be sporadic for the next few days... little one came down with a cold

Take care of your little one!

Hmm

Do we need to bot Ionic?

Taken care of. Thanks for offering though.

In other news. officially back from the Christmas/New Years Holiday.

Alright, it looks like everyone is at least trained in Athletics.

Salliss is only an Expert at Athletics, but he does have the Lead Climber feat which can help protect against critical failures. Using Follow the Expert with him would grant a +2 circumstance bonus.

Bardyth and Ionic are Master in Athletics, so those using Follow the Expert with either of them would grant a +3 circumstance bonus.

Those that have a climbing kit probably want to use it. It helps prevent falls.

Strangely enough, it seems you can Follow the Expert even if you are an Expert or better. I assume someone needs to be the primary, but I think that Ionic could get the bonus following Bardyth if they wanted to.

Probably want to check with the GM if someone with the same level of training can get the circumstance bonus. Seems legal in my quick reading of the rules, but counter-intuitive.

Since everyone is trained, everyone already has a proficiency bonus better than their level. So that part of the text is irrelevant, unless you take a penalty due to a strength penalty.

I will agree that you can follow the expert even if you are expert or better and get the bonus.

Someone will have to take primary though. Either Ionic or Barydeth it seems.

Bardyth having the highest bonus, period, would always suggest he be the primary. And probably anathema for him to follow anyone else. Cus Feats of strength and all

@herondal. It's your unicorn, who all does it heal? I know I'm down a little, not a lot though cus my sources of temp hp. Not sure on the others. Don't have time to check back through all the notes.

If nobody is horribly bad off, using one as a 3 action might make the choices easy. (It'd prolly take care if bardyth)

It can only take 2 actions as a minion so we want to use 2 action heal.
2 heals of 3d8 +24 however we choose. Presumably the 2 most injured party members.

Looking at current health numbers it was probably a waste.

I think that would be Saliss and Ionic but still, they are less than -20 HP that would bring them to full. With last Hopper performance, he would be at -9 which I am fine to just ignore for the moment.

Salliss could certainly use a heal for the 16 hp he is missing.

Since he is the only one with Drained condition, I don’t think it is worth using an aspiration point to reduce the drained condition. If we were to, would want to do that before the heal since it would increase his maximum hit points

——

Did Wolfie need to do the Athletics checks? Generally an animal companion or familiar gets a free pass. With an eidolon, you can choose which of the two does the checks.

Bardyth, will your helping pull people up count as an aid on the next bit? Because Pip can use every +1 she can muster.

Hmm

Both are a circumstance bonus so only the larger bonus from Follow the Expert would apply.

Looking at it more closely, the Inspire Competence spell would have the same issue. Bummer.

We would want Heroism. I’m not sure if the bonus from Guidance would last long enough.

Ha! I just trained Heroism away after never getting to use it!

Did Wolfie need to do the Athletics checks? Generally an animal companion or familiar gets a free pass. With an eidolon, you can choose which of the two does checks.

I don't know any rules that would allow me to skip that check. Some GM's don't bother, but I do ;) To some extent, I would like for PCs with two-handed Glaives wearing full plates to be penalized when fighting in a tight corridor as I believe that there should be time and place for different equipment/fighting styles. I could leave Wolfie behind, but they work as a team so I try to think of ways how to bring him with Hopper ;). Very frequently I pass obstacles riding Wolfie and using his modifiers (he has higher Athletics, Acrobatics and Survival checks).

================

with regards to higher mods, we could reuse:
- climbing kit (to mitigate falling)
- lifting belt - as I think we have a few of those.
- potentially lowering DC by using a rope with knots?

So the more 'gifted' climbers: go up using the lifting belt of someone who already climbed ;) and climbing kit, then they lower them on a rope to another 'gifted' climber :D

Oh wait... I did purchase Gecko Potion after Gming Fanciful March on Pip, to memoralize the blackberry jam in my author scenario. I think it's time to eat my souvenir.

Unfortunately I purchased just the one jar, but I think Pip is the single worst climber here. Do you have any way of making more gecko potion, Hopper?

The Lifting Belt is an invested item.

The Gecko Potion is a magical potion rather than an alchemical item. It still works for one person, but I don’t expect that Hopper can create one with Alchemy.

The other items have merit.

Fly would allow one to use Acrobatics (for Flight) instead of Athletics. Higher damage from a failure, but some of us would have a much better chance of success with that.

Also some of us are small so Bardyth could probably just pull us up.

Bardyth would be happy to try and pull people up after reaching the next level.

So how would lifting some people up via the rope work? We have multiple people with Lifting Belts that they can activate to make the load up to 8 bulk weightless for the check. Would that help?

If they are lifting them up like a hoist. It would be an athletics check on the primary. Others could aid the main lifter.

I would set the DC based on the size of the person being lifted.

Looks like small characters are 3 bulk. As long as the bulk they are carrying is 5 or less. The lifting belt would auto succeed the check.

Regarding wolfie...I would say someone would have to either hoist or he would have to try to jump.

Canines are not the worlds best climbers.

This is a perfect example for Pet Cache or something along that line.

Reminiscing about 1e where we hard Warding Enchantment and spells that turned animals into small statuettes.

Bardyth has a lifting belt, and would happily lift anyone, person or companion, up. One at a time. And would happily make the checks.

Sounds like hoisting people and one Animal Companion is the way to go.

Since there might be an enemy at the top, do we want Salliss to sneak ahead? He could hopefully make it and signal if the way is clear.

Otherwise, Bardyth might as well start this process. Rope is a part of the standard kit so I would expect everyone has some.

Regarding wolfie...I would say someone would have to either hoist or he would have to try to jump.

Canines are not the worlds best climbers.

Agreed. I had a long post in my mind that was slaughtered by real life, and left abandoned in my mind...

I looked at the statue and the climbing leg part looks more like a steep slope than a vertical climb => I assumed that Wolfie would be able to climb there. My dogs in such situations handle such terrain better than I do. Downhill it gets worse as they frequently run short distances downhill and if they are on leash they pull me down. Ahh funny canines ;) Sorry got sidetracked.

Yeah hoisting is good, hoisting means Bardyth does the work :D

===============================

Btw. I know that in SFS there are different DC's described for climbing knotted rope, climbing ladder etc => which allows to simplify the DC. What I mean by that:
- One person (the best climber) climbs up and throws prepared line
- the rest actually climbs using rope (with less lower DC).

I did not see anything like that in PF2, or did I miss it?

Sorry for the lack of posting, and thanks for botting me, breaks break down my routines and that leads to me not posting.

Ionic should be readily able to aid Bardyth with lifting Wolfie from the top if needed. Given the rules about firing at enemies on the statue, I wonder if there's enemies up there that we probably ought to send Saliss to check it out before believing we get the chance to hoist the doggo.

@Hopper, the benefits of a knotted rope, etc. might be the bonus from Follow the Leader. From what I can remember of the rules (which is not great mind you) the DC for things is set by the GM (scenario writer in this case) and a knotted rope might be easier than the rock face, but the problem here, I feel, is the winds and the rope won't fix that.

At +10 Herondal has very little hope of hitting a 28 but since he is small and carrying very little Bardyth should be able to lift him easy. Herondal can Inspire but it seems it doesn't stack with Follow the Leader, Is that right?

It does not stack with Follow the Leader. They both give a circumstance bonus.

It would help Bardyth and Salliss since both of them are doing it without Follow the Leader. It would likely help with the hoisting, although those doing it probably don’t need the help. :)

I agree, hoisting Herondal makes sense given what the GM has said about how they would handle it.

Where are we going. Based on the map our options seem to be 2 doors to North that we are next to, 2 doors to the SE that appear to be on the ground, and a cave of sorts that also appears to be on the ground.

I assume up to the two doors to the north that are 40-50 feet above us.

Note the elevations listed on the map.

I guess the beams are over the rubble. Are we going to walk to the pillar, hop to the next beam, then walk back?

It looks like Bardyth and Ionic are both just going to climb the wall.
Pip is likely going to fly and has offered the spell to others.
Wolfie and Hopper are taking to the beams.
Salliss is likely to join them, but is capable of doing the climb.

Sounds like the group is using at least three different ways to get to the double doors.

I was waiting to see what the consensus was and it appears to be use the method that works best for your character.

@GM It isn’t clear to me exactly how it works moving across the beams. Do we move along them and then have to have to jump or climb from one to the next? What happens at the structural support column in the center?

It doesn't really say, I would assume it would be just a jump or climb up to the next ledge.

As for the column in the center, I guess treat as difficult terrain as you shimmy around it.

Pip is indeed hovering somewhere. She is hovering about 10 feet away from Ionic. Close enough to help, not close enough to interfere with his climb. Also, she attempted to make perception or lore engineering to detect hazards before we ran into them.

No structural hazards...

I likely am not going to have time to work the map and pathing etc. Until late today, Eastern Time. Sorry ZD etc all.

So just say you are taking the same route as Ionic and let them worry the exact details.

Climbing the wall seems like you could just go straight up.

managed to get a minute, and yep, decided straight up was best unless the wall falls out on me. so straight up i am going.

Please Barydeth, make this save...

And I already looked up the incapacitation trait, you would have to be level 14 for it to take effect.

If a spell has the incapacitation trait, any creature of more than twice the spell’s level treats the result of their check to prevent being incapacitated by the spell as one degree of success better

A seventh level spell at this level? Ouchy.

Demons don't fight fair...

Please Barydeth, make this save...

And I already looked up the incapacitation trait, you would have to be level 14 for it to take effect.

AON wrote:

If a spell has the incapacitation trait, any creature of more than twice the spell’s level treats the result of their check to prevent being incapacitated by the spell as one degree of success better

So it's a spell then? Oof. usually, this thing would have to be CR 13 or so for a 7th level spell slot <.< But then, you are right, demon's don't fight fair... Here's hoping it only has the one slot that high XD

Demons don't fight fair...

The game designers don’t do it fair either.

Incapacitation trait basically ensures that players can never pull this sort of stuff against bosses but bosses not only can do it but often succeed against players. There are several things like this in the system.

Fortunately Bardyth managed to save.

This is true. I don't think I've ever seen the incapacitation trait ever work in the pkayers' favor. As for fortunately saving... let's just hope there isn't something nasty it can do still, in this "free ride" state. (Another love of the designers)

PFS 2 GM ZD wrote:

Demons don't fight fair...

The game designers don’t do it fair either.

Incapacitation trait basically ensures that players can never pull this sort of stuff against bosses but bosses not only can do it but often succeed against players. There are several things like this in the system.

Fortunately, Bardyth managed to save.

I never designed an RP game, nor any other type of game for that matters ;) But I do see a huge level of complexity here. And yeah incapacitation is to favor the enemies, it stops us from casting some low-level charm/calm emotion spell at the demon to take it out of the fight.

Overall fights are balanced towards players, and when we fight plenty of equal-level enemies, sure go ahead and spend your spell slot to take one out of the fight. But if it is six vs one the balance has to be skewed. That one boss has to take someone down in one round or it has to have way, way, way more hp than the opposing team.

This is the reality of society play, some mechanics are introduced to hit players.

I understand the sentiment hopper. As someone who has designed games, I know why they choose what they do. That said, whether one makes games or not is not doesn't change that, as you mentioned, multiple enemies vs one big bad change the mathematics behind it.

Well, that's what we have right now, multiple enemeis. And permanent debuff effects exist on those multiple enemies already, so throwing in something that their own design document, the game mastery guide, says should only show up on a cr 13 or higher enemy... in a controlled environment as society (where they know the levels involved and possible number of players.) Then there is still room to comment about not playing fair. ;)

Still, as much as I liked the concept of the tower defense in last scenario, I do think this module, so far, has played a bit more fair. Just glad I didn't end up crit failing and trying to murder the entire party. As that AoO could get nasty in this confined space.

I have seen two instances where incapacitation helped the players.

One was ghouls paralyzation when the ghouls were the minions. The ghouls are a lot less scary when incapacitation is working in your favor.

The other was a high level player going into a low tier game. There it worked out so incapacitation actually worked against the boss.

I still don’t like it.

It basically creates a situation where things that frequently work for the enemies almost never work for the heroes.

I am really ecstatic that you made that crit save on the Hero Point, Bardyth. The thought of fighting you and them is a little terrifying. And now I know which enemy will get to receive Pip's heightened magic missiles that I just retrained to get!

I am really ecstatic that you made that crit save on the Hero Point, Bardyth. The thought of fighting you and them is a little terrifying. And now I know which enemy will get to receive Pip's heightened magic missiles that I just retrained to get!

I... didn't even notice that was a natural 20 XD. I just looked at the final number, saw it passed, and happily went about swinging on things. Thank you for that extra bit of happy news. Helps balance the fact my little one and wife are both down with a horrible flu. :) (it's why I was slow to post this weekend. Sorry ZD)