I'm confused. If petrification goes away after 1 minute, why is the cow still stone?
Grog’s got pretty much the gist of it.
Cockatrice attacks come with calcification. On a failed save, this raises your slowed condition; if you reach slowed 3 (and thus lose all your actions due to slowed), you become petrified.
The exit scenario for slowed in this case is a 1-minute wait — this is what happened to Grog, Pandir and Finch.
If they had reached slowed 3 and been petrified instead, they’d get one save every 24 hours. On a success they return to normal, on a crit failure petrify becomes permanent. Importantly, you can take damage whilst petrified. If you die with that condition, it also becomes permanent.
So, my opinion in the cow’s case: cockatrices petrify stuff so they can eat it. Mister Cocles petrified the cow, then began nibbling. This obviously hurt the cow until it died, which means its petrification became permanent. RIP, cow.
Look at the bright side--the cow is full with minerals. :D
So you have a choice? You can either make a saving roll against the calcified condition or you can not make a saving throw.
If you do not make a saving roll your slowed condition doesn't change. If you do not make a saving roll against the calcified condition for a minute, you are free of the condition.
If you make a saving roll and fail, your condition increases by 1. When you fail 3 saving throws and reach slowed 3, you do not get any more saving throws for 24 hours.
hmmm…I believe I did not express myself very well. As far as I can see, RAW, saving throws are not considered a choice.
So, in the case of calcification: the moment you are hit by the cockatrice, you must make a fortitude saving throw. If you are are hit two times and fail the saving throw two times, you are slowed 2. This leads to two scenarios:
1. you are not hit anymore. One minute later your body fights off the magic automatically, no further saving throws required. This is what happened with Grog. For flavour, I'm saying that he and the others will be sore for a couple of days, but mechanically they're good as new.
2. you are hit and fail your saving throw once again. You lose slowed and gain petrified. You get one saving throw every 24 hours until you either succeed and are free or crit fail and the condition becomes permanent.
Is that clearer?
Ah, that makes more sense to me. And yes, I didn't think saving throws were a choice either; that's part of what was puzzling me.
I was imagining the condition as progressive: hit once, you are slowed, then you progressively reach slowed 2, slowed 3 just through the passage of time, unless you succeed at your saving throw.
I wasn't seeing it as a once-and-done event. In other words, I was thinking it only took one hit to start the condition, and the condition kept getting worse, round by round.
But now I can see the condition as a single event, but that during an encounter, you might get hit 3 times (3 events) and reach the slowed 3 condition that way.
Thanks so much for clarifying.
Thanks for reminding me again Ceija! Recal Knowledge is a GM roll. Prolly won't take me more than 20 more reminders before I remember it while I'm posting! :-P
Prolly won't take me more than 20 more reminders before I remember it while I'm posting! :-P
You and me both!
Aid has been severely nerfed from 1e.
DC is now usually 20 instead of 10. Critical Failures will hurt the overall roll, too. It feels more like a mid-late game action now.
calcification: ah, I see! But, no, luckily it needs repeated attacks and failed saves and does not progress on its own. I believe that would probably make it a pretty nasty and fast-acting affliction.
secret rolls: don't stress too much about forgetting it every now and then. It's nice if we can make it work, but no big deal otherwise.
Aid: As Pandir said: you can still aid, but it has an element of risk since you can crit fail and make things harder.
Rules: Influence
So, if you want to resolve this peacefully, I’m all for it. Since it’s supposed to be a sort of boss encounter, it might make sense to use the Influence subsystem. It’s supposed to be a short-lived type of social encounter where skills other than pure Diplomacy can be used.
Essentially, you will be doing skill checks to gain influence points over the wolves for a set number of turns. If you reach a minimum influence threshold, the encounter is resolved successfully; go over it and there are extra rewards. Sink below 0 and the whole thing’s off.
Each person who wants in gets one action per turn. These actions can be either Influence or Discover.
Influence is doing something that might endear you to the other party: flattery, giving them something they might want, impressing them with martial prowess, etc. Successes award Influence Points, crit failures lose Influence Points.
Influence examples: using Religion to sway a priest with theological arguments, offering food to a starving band of kobolds.
Discover is trying to get information that will help you gain influence. You say what you’re doing, ask me what you’re trying to find out and what skill you’re using; on a success I give you the information you want; on a critical failure you get wrong info.
Examples: what is the best way to get on the priest’s good graces? Do I think the kobolds need something we have?
Does that sound interesting to you?
Nonviolent resolutions? Let's do it. One less "the monster fights to the death" we need to deal with.
Yeah, that's pretty much the reason why I looked into this subsystem. Combat can be interesting and sometimes inevitable, but I do not like it when it's the only answer.
It might be a tad awkward to do it without sharing a language, but, eh, there's magic, nature, survival, items, etc.
I'm very curious to see how a certain stab-friendly halfling will go about this.
Oh yes, that sounds great! I've been meaning to figure out more of the nonviolent conflict resolution rules.
PS, thanks for keeping the Maps link in your posting line. So easy to click on to figure out what has happened recently
I'm stymied about skill checks, because I keep thinking that all the ones I would normally use for negotiation encounters are for human-to-human interactions.
Deception, Diplomacy, Society. They all seem wrong somehow for dealing with wolves.
Even Performance and Survival don't seem to have relevance
Survival may be useful to find suitable food, or maybe preparing that cockatrice carcass to make it edible to the wolves. Maybe they will chow down on a well-prepared meal they will let Mister Cubby leave with us.
As I said, it is a bit awkward to have a social encounter with a wild beast, but Pandir's suggestions are good — though Finch (bless her heart) is very keen on eating the cockatrice herself, so that might be a tough one. Time is more fluid here than in combat, so a turn doesn't necessarily map to 6 seconds and you could say you went outside for a minute and tried finding some roots that your caravan's dogs liked.
In general I see a lot of this as a matter of framing the skills the right way.
Your idea with the ghost sound cantrip is a good one and I'd actually be fine with you trying to intimidate the wolves rolling Occultism (your tradition's associated skill) to see if you can modulate the spell well enough so it is scary for a wolf.
I think there's a lot of leeway in how you use Survival here too. For instance, you could argue that surviving in the wilderness requires one to be able to know how to deal with wild animals. Ceija might have once found herself face-to-face with a wolf and discovered it was entranced/scared by fire. It doesn't mean it will succeed this time — that's what the roll is for — but it does make your action and choice of skill reasonable.
You could also try performing for the wolves anyway. The result of your check was fairly inconclusive, but Ceija might be confident enough in her performing skills that she goes through anyway.
Of course, some skills are easier than others — Intimidation is fairly straighforward, whereas Society is much harder…perhaps Ceija once met a band of hunters who gave her a tip on how to deal with wolves? A bit of a stretch and a high DC, but, hey.
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Oi, I kill’et, I munch’it
Ok, Plan G
==============
We tell Myron to put Cubby down.
Cubby stands next to, but a bit behind the pack leader. His head at her shoulder, roughly.
The rest of us move as stealthily as possible around the edges of the grotto so that at least one of us is behind the pack on each side. I'm thinking that the little caves give good cover and let people avoid being flanked. I've put small red markers to indicate the suggested placement.
Except for Grog. He stays close to the leader, and looms in an intimidating manner.
As soon as everyone is in place, Cubby starts nudging the shoulder of the leader trying to push her toward the opening. Grog can move back a bit but stays in a position to grab Cubby if necessary.
The rest of us move around behind the pack, herding them toward the entrance, but ready to defend if attacked.
If we can persuade them to follow Grog peacefully (maybe another intimidation check?) we do so, but mostly we try to surround them and push them out
Finch waves her knives menacingly from the rear, and I make it sound like a bunch of people are in the back of the cave, thus providing encouragement from behind as Pandir and Katala work the sides and Grog takes the front.
============
So how many ways does that not work, and what do we need to do to fix it?
I wouldn’t think so. Wolves have a den mentality, and wouldn’t easily leave it even if they feel very threatened. If they do feel threatened, they will probably attack.
Which seems to be the situation we are in. Unless we had some illusion spells to misdirect or conceal Cubby and Myron, or some enchantment to entrance them, we will probably have to leave the cave with Finch’s new shiny (if bloody) black fur coat.
Also at a side, the plan is a little too complex to communicate and properly execute—especially for circus performers.
You told us nothing about killing grasshoppers wolves pal, you lied to us!
Ok, allies can move through each others spaces. What if I tell Cubby to run like hell after we put one or two people in the direct path out of the grotto, and surround the first exit space with our best hitters.
Cubby can move through our spaces, but the wolves can't. We put our best-protected folks at the front, and put Grog and someone else as bottle stoppers at the front.
Yellow blobs to mark the positions
Alternatively, we throw the cockatrice as a meal to distract them. The wolves may be so hungry they'll just chow down while we take Cubby away.
Oi, I kill’et, I munch’it
We may be too late for that strategy, Pandir.
Edit to earlier suggestion: Make someone else the centered character, and position Grog somewhere where he can use his AoO (Does Grog have AoO?)
Well, that was pretty good timing for a crit. Technically you'd have another round to try for a better score, but I don't think that the narrative supports that so I'm ending the encounter early.
My apologies for the confusion of the situation. It was an interesting experiment, but I could definitely have handled it better.
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My apologies for the confusion of the situation. It was an interesting experiment, but I could definitely have handled it better.
As is so often the case, as a participant in this experiment, I didn't notice anything that wasn't handled well. Don't be too hard on yourself.
Yeah, the system wasn't necessarily a perfect fit for this particular encounter, but I think we made it work. I'm interested to try it out more! It sort of reminds me of skill challenges in D&D 4E, in a good way—rewards creative skill use, and all that.
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I had a lot of fun messing around with my skills and finding different ways to solve problems besides making attack rolls.
Yeah, my "handling it better" comment was more in the sense of "being more careful when using a subsystem." Guess it sounded a bit more dramatic than intended. My original plan had been to have Cubby begging you to use nonlethal damage, but when Pandir straight up tried to parley with wild wolves…well, my interest was piqued.
I definitely want to try it again in a different situation, though. Probably one that's a bit more straightforward.
And skill challenges were definitely an inspiration, nice catch ;)
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"Now prepare yourself for the show tonight. It will be exciting. You can tell everyone about the lupine encounter this evening."
Clarification: the show is on the following day. We're almost done with chapter 0, so you'll get a day of downtime to make your daily preparations before we start and tweak your character if you feel the need.
Some questions as I consider tweaks to my character:
a) If I understand PF2 rules correctly, all five of our characters have a speed of 25 ft/round. So there's never any need to pick up another character so they can keep up. Everyone is moving at the same speed.
Any 'riding' or 'carrying' is simply flavor, and no one is required to pick up Pandir or Flint to get them out of a situation.
Mother's pearly gate! We got 'uer sentient canine, 'uer mutant chicken, and 'uer 'ides outta tha' Merlyn Rees.
Oi call that a smashin' win!
On a side note, i liked the skill encounter. Grog isn't a violent person by nature (which is probably going to be his character arc's theme if he must survive 'da krunchy world uv pathfinda 2e'), so relying on bravado and intimidation is very appropriate for him.
At least for now.
Also, one thing I wondered about and am trying to put it forward.
Grog is probably going to be an axe-and-shield fighter, so keeping a shield (and using actions to keep it active) is probably the path where he can be of the most use to the team.
That will require him to change out his snagging strike ability--where he inflicts the flat-footed condition for his enemies (since one hand must be free).
So, do our DPS friends have good enough ways to keep up the pressure or should Grog keep the ability? I'm sure I can use the talent for a more shieldy feat.
I have the Stumbling Stance which makes enemies flatfooted against my strikes, so I'm all set there. I'm also trained in Deception so I can Feint.
I assume Miss Finch will always try to flank, so I think we're good with your change, Grog. Besides you should play however you want to.
Ha, it seems I misunderstood the reactions to the wolf encounter, then. Thanks for letting me know =)
@Grog: that was on my list of things to discuss before beginning chapter 1: snagging strike is great, but since it requires a free hand it doesn't mix well with shields. I think Reactive Shield is the main shield feat for lvl 1 fighters (though it costs a reaction that you could use for shield block or AoO). Aggressive Block is a good 2nd level feat you might want to take a look at.
@Ceija: generally speaking, yes, but you have three actions per turn and might want to use all of them to stride. So, Ceija could move up 75ft in a round by using three Stride actions. Also, as Pandir levels up, her speed will increase. As for carrying other characters, usually it will be just for flavour, yes, though it might make sense mechanically if, say, someone is unconscious or paralysed. Finally, things can change a bit in exploration mode. Someone Avoiding Notice can only move at half speed, for instance.
Aside from having multiple people to flank with, Finch also gets a buffed version of Feint from her racket. I think we're fine on that front.
Sounds good, I'm changing to Reactive Shield.
I think I'm the primary candidate for the Splint armor, so I'll get it. It being an ill-fit is aesthetically appropriate for Grog. I think it gives 2 damage resistance vs piercing (from Composite and being heavy), so I'll add that in the heading too.
Also, since this occurred before Grog used his starting-gear chainmail, could he refund its cost?
Unless I'm mistaken, you only gain those effects (DR 2+rune vs piercing) with armour specialisation, which Fighters only get at 11th level with "Armor Expertise" class feature.
Regarding refund…I'll allow it. 6GP are a lot for 1st level, but on the long term it won't make a huge difference.
Anything you want to do during the rest of the night and the following day or are we all ready to start chapter 1?
I just want to know how people react to the stew, and then I'm ready to move on. Whether or not we have a sudden spate of food poisonings might actually affect the show tomorrow...
Good call.
RIP Ringmaster Myron. Right before the big show, too.
Iz a bloody konspiracy oi tell ya, bloody konspiracy
Godz accept yer soul gov’na Myron.
Well—now what?
How is the hierarchy of the circus?
There isn't much of a hierarchy: most important things were put to a vote, though Myron was the de facto leader. He shared administrative and day-to-day tasks with The Professor, who is more of an advisor than anything else.
Also:
Rules: Circus Shows
Each show consists of 7 tricks divided in 4 acts. Each trick is one roll against the performer’s own level-based DC (15 for you right now).
The acts are:
• 1 Act for the Opener: a good performance here lowers trick DCs for other acts;
• 2 Acts for Build-Up: if both performances are successful, the next act gets a bonus;
• 1 Act for the Big Number: failures and successes here are more significant;
• 3 Acts for the Grand Finale: no extra effects.
By the end of the show, we tally how many successes and failures you got with the trick rolls. Crit successes count for 2 successes and crit failures for 2 failures.
A critically successful show has no failures.
A successful show has more successes than failures.
A failed show has more failures than successes.
A critically failed show has no successes.
Wot can I do?
Oh, there will be stuff for non-performers, don't you worry about that ;)
Grog can also give his input on the line-up, if you don't feel it's too out-of-character
Opener
Pandir will gladly open. It's time for her Acrobatics check to shine. Triple Flip Leaf Glide has a +5 Acrobatics check.
Build-Up
Chima Kinbali and company can hop in here.
The Pedra non-siblings can join in, too.
Big Number
Any PCs want to hop in here?
Grand Finale
Every PC who hasn't performed should hop in, too.
Flamboni sisters
Mordaine Korkus
Axel Estades
(In that priority can also jump in, too.)