| Albion, The Eye |
So what does the team look like at the moment?
I can see WabbitHuntr is a ranged/support character? :D
Grimm is a Sorcerer.
Are there any other roles/characters defined?
I have more questions - let me know if I should just shut up. Is anyone bringing animal companions? Zorblag, do you anticipate large ACs to be an issue (looking at the Sacred Huntsmaster archer and his Roc, perhaps with a sprinkle of Zen Archer)?
| Zorblag |
So we've got Groff, the dorn-dergar fighter, Grimm, the arcane sorcerer, probably WabbitHuntr's starknife throwing bard, and possibly pad300's unsworn shaman (unless plans have changed.)
As far as large animal companions go, it'll be easily able to interact sometimes, but there will be others where it'll be trickier. So like a lot of adventure paths? Later in the adventure you'll be exploring the ruins of Tsar, but I haven't actually read through that part of the adventure yet so I don't know how restrictive that will be in terms of a Roc staying with the party most of the time.
| Tristan Luckbringer |
Since I don't have herolab this takes me WAYYYY longer than Buzz. And all is entered by hand. So there could be errors. But I think I've got it right.
As the parties trapbot I'm not happy with his perception. First priority will be getting some eyewear to help with that. Other than that his DD knowledge and face skills are solid
| Zorblag |
That mostly looks good Tristan, but I do see a couple things.
You've got the wisdom bonus listed on your AC which you don't get (due to wearing armor,) but you don't list your deflection bonus, so those balance out.
Your Touch AC should be 19 instead of 20 (you lose all 3 from the armor,) but your flat footed AC should be 14 (the deflection will apply there.)
| Tristan Luckbringer |
updated with Deflection+1 and Buckler+1 removed Wis+1...had forgotten the buckler
@Buzz....even worse a spellcaster by hand
| pad300 |
Khoran of the Bone Bears
5’11, 188 lbs, a well muscled build, green eyes, brown hair going gray, short beard and mustache. The only clear clues to his aasimar heritage are that when he cries, his tears are multicoloured, and on his palm, he has a birthmark; a butterfly, a symbol of Tykee.
Somewhere in the heritage of the Bone Bear tribe (a minor barbarian tribe, who’s lands are near the Desolation), there’s a celestial in the woodpile. It may well have been from the Era of the Army of Light. Azata’s have been known to be mischevious, even when conjured to fight evil…But when Kieron got Sethra with child, a legacy resurfaced; their son Khoran was an aasimar. That was 83 years ago…
He was raised in typical tribal fashion (handle animal, perception), with his heritage leading him into a shamanic path. He learned at the feet of the elders, from leadership and dispute settling (diplomacy), through to the magic of the tribes (healing, spellcraft). He spent many years with the Bone Bears.
His aasimar longevity, though, has left him watching as his contemporaries aged to dust, sundering his bonds to his tribe. He is very thankful that the spirits were wise enough to send him a spirit guide that could match his longevity – an Ioun Wyrd – otherwise he would be very lonely indeed. Intellectual curiosity brought Khoran to Bards Gate, where he has learned civilized ways, but has not lost his connection to the spirits of the land. He still makes pacts with the spirits on a daily basis and his Ioun Wyrd is with him always. He was recruited for this expedition, being famed as a healer.
Khoran
CG Male Aasimar
Shaman 7 (Unsworn)
Init +3 = +3 (Dex)
Speed 30 ft
Defense
AC : *** = 10+3 (dex)+1 Deflection (ABP)+1 Natural Armor (Familiar)
HP: 55 = 8+5*6 +2*7 Con+3 FCB
Fort +5 = +2 Shaman 7+2(Con) +1 resistance (ABP)
Ref +6 = +2 Shaman 7+3(Dex) +1 resistance (ABP)
Will +10= +5 Shaman 7+4(Wis) +1 resistance (ABP)
+1 trait bonus on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and poison.
acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5
CMD : 18 =10 +5 (bab) + 3 (dex)
Offense
BAB : +5
Melee: +5 Longspear (1d8) +5 Spiked Gauntlet (1d4)
Ranged: ***
CMB : +5 = +5 (Bab)+0(str)
Spells Prepared
L0 (DC 14, 4) : Guidance, Stabilize, Detect Magic, ???
L1 (DC 15, 4+1):
L2 (DC 16, 3+1):
L3 (DC 17, 2+1):
L4 (DC 18, 1+1):
Spirit Magic : 1st [ ] 2ed [ ] 3ed [ ] 4th [ ]
Wandering Spirits: Typically : Life, Nature
Current Hexes (2): Typically: Slumber, Silkstring Snare
Stats
Str 10 = 10 (0 pts)
Dex 16 = 14 (5 pts) +2 ABP (Physical)
Con 14 = 14 (5 pts)
Int 14 = 14 (5 pts)
Wis 18 = 13 (4 pts) +2 racial +2 (ABP Mental)+1 lvl 4
Cha 14 = 12 (2 pts) +2 Racial
Feats : Healing Hands (1st), Alertness (Familiar), Accursed Hex (3ed), Signature Skill (Heal) (5th ), *** (7th)
Traits : Seeker (Social), Glory of Old (regional), Fate’s Favored (faith), Hedonist (drawback)
Skills 42= 7 *(4+2(int) /lvl) (Ranks, skill roll. NOT INCLUDING ACP)
Diplomacy (7, +14 = 7 rank +3 trained +2 cha+2 racial),
Spellcraft (7, +12=7rank +3 trained +2 int),
Perception (7, +19 = 7 rank +3 trained +4wis+1 trait+2 racial +2 alertness)
K Planes (7, +12 = 7 rank +3 trained +2 int),
K nature (7, +12 = 7 rank +3 trained +2 int),
Heal (7, +14 = 7 rank +3 trained +4 wis)
Background Skills (14= 7*2/lvl) (Ranks, skill roll. NOT INCLUDING ACP)
Handle Animal, (7,+12= 7 rank +3 trained +2 cha)
Linguistics (7,+9 = 7 ranks +2 int)
Languages : Common, +2 int +7 linguistics,
FCB: Levels 1 to 3, HP, Human FCB 4+ : Murderous Command, Burning Disarm. Burst of Radiance, Silence
Spells: A shaman casts divine spells drawn from the shaman spell list. A shaman must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a shaman must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell’s level. The saving throw DC against a shaman’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the shaman’s Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a shaman can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 1–9. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table 1–3 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook).
Shamans commune with their spirit animals to prepare their spells. Each shaman must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation with her spirit animal to regain her daily allotment of spells. A shaman can prepare and cast any spell on the shaman spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily communion.
Orisons: Shamans can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day as noted on Table 1–9. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.
Minor Spirit (Su): At 1st level, the unsworn shaman also forms a temporary bond with a minor spirit each day, granting her access to a shaman or witch hex of her choosing, but not a major hex or a grand hex. She must make this selection each day when she prepares her spells for the day. Until she changes the minor spirit, she continues to have access to the shaman or witch hex. At 2nd level, she can instead select a hex from one of her wandering spirits selected for that day. If she selects a witch hex, she treats her shaman level as her witch level, and uses her Wisdom in place of her Intelligence for the purpose of that hex.
She can make temporary bonds with two minor spirits (thus gaining two hexes) at 4th level, and with one additional minor spirit (and hex) every 4 levels thereafter. This ability replaces spirit and alters hex.
Spirit Animal (Ex): At 1st level, a shaman forms a close bond with a spirit animal tied to her chosen spirit. This animal is her conduit to the spirit world, guiding her along the path to enlightenment. The animal also aids a shaman by granting her a special ability. See the Spirit Animal section on page 47.
A shaman must commune with her spirit animal each day to prepare her spells. While the spirit animal does not store the spells like a witch’s familiar does, the spirit animal serves as her conduit to divine power. If a shaman’s spirit animal is slain, she cannot prepare new spells or use her spirit magic class feature until the spirit animal is replaced.
Spirit Animal: At 2nd level, an unsworn shaman’s spirit animal gains the spirit animal bonus from one of her wandering spirits (see below). This bonus can be changed each day when the shaman prepares spells, but it must correspond to one of the shaman’s wandering spirits. This ability alters spirit animal.
Wandering Spirit (Su): At 2nd level, the unsworn shaman gains access to the wandering spirit class feature. At 10th level, she gains the abilities listed in the greater version of her wandering spirit. At 18th level, she gains the abilities listed in the true version of her wandering spirit.
Additionally, at 6th level, she also gains a second wandering spirit, gaining the abilities listed in the greater version of that spirit at 14th level, and the abilities listed in the true version at 20th level. This ability alters wandering spirit and replaces wandering hex.
Spirit Magic (Sp): The unsworn shaman gains this ability at 2nd level rather than at 1st. This ability alters spirit magic.
Medium: Aasimars are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Aasimars have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Celestial Resistance: Aasimars have acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5.
Languages: Aasimars begin play speaking Common
Scion of Humanity : Some aasimars’ heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.
Skilled: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Perception checks. Aasimars of specific bloodlines (see below) gain a +2 bonus on different skill checks as indicated.
Spell-Like Ability: Aasimars can use daylight once per day as a spell-like ability (with a caster level equal to the aasimar’s character level). Aasimars of specific bloodlines (see below) gain other spell-like abilities in place of daylight.
| pad300 |
Updated with equipment and pretty close to final
Khoran
CG Male Aasimar
Shaman 7 (Unsworn)
Init +3 = +3 (Dex)
Speed 30 ft
Defense
AC : 24 = 10+3 (dex)+1 Deflection (ABP)+1 Natural Armor (Familiar) +6 Armor +1 Armor Enhancemnt (ABP) +2 (Shield)
HP: 55 = 8+5*6 +2*7 Con+3 FCB
Fort +7 = +2 Shaman 7+2(Con) +1 resistance (ABP) +2 Luck (horseshoe)
Ref +8 = +2 Shaman 7+3(Dex) +1 resistance (ABP) +2 Luck (horseshoe)
Will +12= +5 Shaman 7+4(Wis) +1 resistance (ABP) +2 Luck (horseshoe)
+1 trait bonus on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and poison.
acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5
CMD : 18 =10 +5 (bab) + 3 (dex)
Offense
BAB : +5
Melee: +6 Longspear (1d8+1), +5 Morningstar, +5 Spiked Gauntlet (1d4)
Ranged: +8 Sling (1d4)
CMB : +5 = +5 (Bab)+0(str)
Spells Prepared
L0 (DC 14, 4) : Guidance, Stabilize, Detect Magic, ???
L1 (DC 15, 4+1):
L2 (DC 16, 3+1):
L3 (DC 17, 2+1):
L4 (DC 18, 1+1):
Spirit Magic : 1st [ ] 2ed [ ] 3ed [ ] 4th [ ]
Wandering Spirits: Typically : Life, Nature
Current Hexes (2): Typically: Slumber, Silkstring Snare
Stats
Str 10 = 10 (0 pts)
Dex 16 = 14 (5 pts) +2 ABP (Physical)
Con 14 = 14 (5 pts)
Int 14 = 14 (5 pts)
Wis 18 = 13 (4 pts) +2 racial +2 (ABP Mental)+1 lvl 4
Cha 14 = 12 (2 pts) +2 Racial
Feats : Healing Hands (1st), Alertness (Familiar), Accursed Hex (3ed), Signature Skill (Heal) (5th ), Amplified Hex (7th)
Traits : Seeker (Social), Glory of Old (regional), Fate’s Favored (faith), Hedonist (drawback)
Skills 42= 7 *(4+2(int) /lvl) (Ranks, skill roll. NOT INCLUDING ACP)
Diplomacy (7, +14 = 7 rank +3 trained +2 cha+2 racial),
Spellcraft (7, +12=7rank +3 trained +2 int),
Perception (7, +19 = 7 rank +3 trained +4wis+1 trait+2 racial +2 alertness)
K Planes (7, +12 = 7 rank +3 trained +2 int),
K nature (7, +12 = 7 rank +3 trained +2 int),
Heal (7, +14 = 7 rank +3 trained +4 wis)
Background Skills (14= 7*2/lvl) (Ranks, skill roll. NOT INCLUDING ACP)
Handle Animal, (7,+12= 7 rank +3 trained +2 cha)
Linguistics (7,+9 = 7 ranks +2 int)
Languages : Common, +2 int +7 linguistics,
FCB: Levels 1 to 3, HP, Human FCB 4+ : Murderous Command, Burning Disarm. Burst of Radiance, Silence
Weapons: Cold Iron Longspear, Sling, Cestus , Dagger, Morningstar, 20 Sling Bullets
Armor:
Darkwood Heavy Wood Shield 257gp
Agile Masterwork Breastplate 550gp
Equipment
Handy Haversack 1000gp*
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (50) 750 gp
Healer’s Satchel 750 gp *
Snapleaf 375gp*
Travellers AnyTool 125gp*
Feather Token : Tree 200 gp *
Lucky Horseshoe 3400 gp *
Metamagic Rod (lesser extend) 3000 gp
* items are ½ cost due to Ritual Hex > Fetish > Craft Wondrous Item
20 playing cards sized wooden planchettes with pre-cast Woodland Runes on them. They are programmed not to effect anyone/anything displaying all 3 of the following symbols:
2 planchettes with pre-cast symbols of mirroring on them, programmed to only affect those displaying the same 3 symbol combination. – 200 gp
Planchettes are kept individually wrapped in sheets of paper, which are labelled.
Spirit gum to stick planchettes to surfaces, for example, a breastplate.
A set of 12 necklaces (fits up to large creatures, can be multiply looped to fit smaller creatures), that display the aforementioned 3 symbol combination (Arcane Mark, symbol of Tykee, symbol of Belon)
119 gp worth of assorted coinage. 50 gp worth of gemdust for scribing symbols
Equipment: Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath (wand of CLW), Explorer’s outfit, 2 sacks, bedroll , blanket, hammock , 100 ft hemp rope , String 50 ft, trail rations 10 days, belt pouch, chalk, flint and steel, 2 x waterskin (filled), Divine Focus, spell component pouch (X2, 1 in the haversack), mess kit, Tattooed Divine Focus, 2 blank books, journal, notebook, quill, ink, several bottles of fine wine, some good drinking glasses, 2 pipes, smokeweed, 4 partially books of collected poetry that he has transcribed, cold weather gear, swarmsuit, armoured familiar box, lockable from the inside (attached to the back of his helmet).
| Zorblag |
I assume you mean wandering hex rather that ritual hex for the access to fetish (which would be fine.)
For the pre-cast Woodland Runes, it doesn't look like that's an option with the spell (which specifies that it triggers when any non-plant creature (apart from the caster) moves within 30 feet of the rune, and that it affects all all creatures within a 30-foot burst. The symbol of death is more flexible for the trigger and who it affects, but Woodland Rune specifies those (along with the rest of what it does,) and says that otherwise it acts as a symbol of death.
For the pre-cast Symbols of Mirroring do you have access to the spell through something like a spirit? It doesn't look like it's on the shaman spell list.
| pad300 |
Sorry, yeah wandering hex to access fetish. Also wandering hex to access Symbol of Mirroring: Wandering Spirit : Lore Spirit >> Wandering Hex: Arcane Enlightenment.
PS Assuming more cash becomes available, you should probably consider the potential of such effects as Symbol of Laughter set up in inverse fashion...
| Zorblag |
OK, that works. If you're using Arcane Enlightenment then I do want you to pick the spells it's granting, potentially replacing one each level like the description says. Resetting it each time as a wandering hex is beyond the scope of what I feel it should be able to do, but giving access to a few wizard/sorcerer spells that you can change up as you level is still some nice flexibility.
As far as effects with symbols and the like, I'll mostly ask everyone to not abuse anything that seems more powerful than a spell or effect of a given level should be; if it seems to strong then it probably is.
| pad300 |
OK, that works. If you're using Arcane Enlightenment then I do want you to pick the spells it's granting, potentially replacing one each level like the description says. Resetting it each time as a wandering hex is beyond the scope of what I feel it should be able to do, but giving access to a few wizard/sorcerer spells that you can change up as you level is still some nice flexibility.
...
It's a maximum of 2 spells I can pull for a hex slot. (Of which I have 2 total, so it's not going to be in use except for special occasions. Not to mention that locks me into using a wandering spirit slot for lore, and I only have 2 of those available each day.), and I have to use regular slots to memorize and cast them. We are also going to need it for any arcane support spellcasting, given we have a blasty sorceror and a bard that's 4 levels behind as other casters...
It's not broken, trust me...
| pad300 |
So, in review:
Groff is our Tank
Grimm is our Arcane Caster
Tristan is our Scout/all purpose know it all
Khoran is our Divine powerSo my options are still on the table - what do you guys think? Do we need an Offtank/melee bruiser, or a ranged DPS?
For party balance, I'd say your proposal of Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor.
| Zorblag |
@Albion, you're not limited to core races. I explicitly OKd goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs and ratfolk ahead of time. Aasimars I've said are OK, but without alternate racial traits. I can do the same for Tieflings I suppose. Aasimars fit the theme of the adventure particularly well, and Tieflings tend to be just a notch below in terms of innate power, so they won't break the game.
@pad300, it's two spells (for now) from anywhere (up to level four for now,) on the extremely diverse sorcerer/wizard spell list. If you're resetting that daily that's more flexibility to choose spells situationally than even a wizard would typically have (given that you don't need to acquire them via scroll or other research.) It doesn't make sense that taking Arcane Enlightenment as a wandering hex would power it up so much more than a shaman taking it as a non-wandering hex. I've played shamans and you've already got plenty of flexibility in your spell list, especially as unsworn. If you're going to use it you'll need to set the spells and only change them as you level.
| Tristan Luckbringer |
Archer or Melee?
Here's another option...
An Archer Inquisitor Monster Tactician/Ravener Hunter (the archetypes stack)
With the Wood Bond revelation
levels 1-5 Inquisitor able to summon up bodies to fill the front line
levels 6-10 Hinterlander (progresses divine casting and nice archery bonus feats
11+Inquisitor
| pad300 |
I never played one because it always felt a bit pigeonholed, but... Would you guys hate me forever if I built a Dex based Magus? Would be a Dex/Int based character - two stats we are not capitalising on? Can perform as a sort of offtank and melee bruiser, but with options?
[sarc]Obviously we would have to form a mob, and string you up as Christmas decoration... [/sarc]
If you want to, go nuts. A magus build is a melee type, and built right can hold a front line spot...
| Albion, The Eye |
After mulling over some, I really am not feeling the Dex Magus :P
I am strongly torn between a STR or DEX melee Investigator (more inclined to STR), and a STR based Magus.
My inclination to STR based builds vs Dex ones is simply the fact I dislike being tied down to a single specific weapon - I prefer to go with the flow and grab whatever the adventure drops. And Dex builds usually are too dependent on a specific weapon (type). I am however a big fan of the Dex melee Investigator.
I will have a crunch for you guys to look at tomorrow.
EDIT: Wait a second - we do not have a scout?
| Groff the glib |
We're playing with ABP, so you are not going to be getting any magic weapons. Whatever the adventure drops is not going to be any better than what you bring in (baring special materials). In fact because of ABP attunement, you are not going to be using whatever the adventure drops for another 24 hours unless you don't like using your ABP bonus.
As for scouts, I've rarely seen utility in them, and I bet the bard can do it since he's quite the skill monkey.
| Tristan Luckbringer |
One of the familiars may make a better scout than my bard.
10 dex means he'll never be great at it even if he maxes out skill ranks which are already spoken for covering knowledges, dd, and put towards performances which are prereqs for some interesting masterpieces later on.
If the dex magus wants to take on the scout AND DD role with the trapfinder trait my bard could shift away from the DD role and shift his
cha to skill trait and Skill Focus from DD to spellcraft which he will then be able to do better than any other character in the party.
Stealth and DD typically go together but my bard will only be able to handle DD well, not both.
| Zorblag |
Like I told Grimm earlier, if you're using familiars for things like scouting then I'm going to have things attack them if they get spotted, so it might not be worth the potential cost.
I do like the empiricist with a one level inspired blade swashbuckler dip for skilled dex melee investigator builds (something small like a Ratfolk if I also want to be sneaky,) but that does tie you to a rapier fairly firmly. There are lots of options though, so the main thing is finding something that would be fun to play!
| Zorblag |
Oh, and just to make sure you're seeing them, the build rules are over on the campaign info page, but here's a copy of them:
Start at Level 7
20 point point buy
Evil Characters are discouraged, but we'll work on a case by case basis for the right stories.
Class: Just about any Paizo class, prestige class and archetype is fair game; check if you think it might be too much.
Race: Core races, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs, ratfolk, ask about others, but anything not to crazy or powerful is likely fine.
Traits: Two traits, and you can select a (play relevant) drawback to add a third. No campaign traits.
Trait Exception: Trap finder can be selected as combat trait.
Religions: Deities of the Bard's Gate Region of the Lost Lands setting are fair game.
Background Skills are in use.
Elephant in the Room Feat Tax Rules are in use.
Variant Multiclassing is in use.
Fractional Base Bonuses are in use.
Standard Wealth by level (using the Autmoatic Bonus Progression adjustment mentioned below,) so start with 11,750 gp (no more than half spent on any one item.)
HP: Max level 1, For levels beyond the first character level use the following: d6 classes get 4 hp; d8 classes get 5 hp; d10 classes get 7 hp; d12 classes get 9 hp.
We will use slightly modified Automatic Bonus Progression rules.
The following changes will apply:
Starting gold will be 11,750, no more than half of which can be spent on any one item.
Items that only provide bonuses to AC, saving throws and statistics longer exist. Items that used to have one of the bonuses listed along with others will have their cost reduced on a case by case basis to remove the cost of whatever part of their description has been removed.
Non-magical armor and weapons can be attuned normally using the ABP system (so you'll start with one +1 piece of armor and one +1 weapon by default at level 7.) For armor and weapons with other properties we'll use the capacity system described in the Unleashing Unchained blog post. When magic weapons or armor are bought, crafted or discovered they'll have a capacity listed.
Characters with animal companions can split the ABP bonuses they receive between themself and their animal companion however they like by default. A +2 resistance bonus, for example, could be use to give the character +2, +1 for each the character and the animal companion, or +2 for the animal companion. This can be set at the start of each day.
Additionally, items that would normally not be allowed under ABP (amulets of mighty fists and the like,) can be purchased (and only work) for animal companions as they would under non-ABP rules, but the cap on bonuses is the same as the bonus that ABP would grant at a given level. E.g. When at level 8 the animal companion could have a +2 AOMF, and when the character hit 14 that could go up to +3. If the Animal companion receives bonuses this way they wouldn't stack with the bonuses from ABP the character might be splitting with them.
When crafting or buying magic items other than weapons and armor custom items are not allowed, including the properties of different magic items from the same slot.
| Albion, The Eye |
Ok, so I got a guy crunched, but went in a different direction: Dex based melee Investigator VMC Magus ;)
He is still missing some gear, some skills, some spells, some stuff, but the crunch below will give you a general idea of how he turns out.
I added some skill points to the 'scout' skills just so we can have a perspective on how he may look like. He will definitely not hit as hard as the other version I crunched, based on STR (let me know if you want to take a look at that one for comparison - it feels like that one benefits more from the EitR feat taxes), but he is more versatile in some aspects.
As for all Dex based builds, he is tied up with Rapier which kinda bums me a bit since on an adventure with this scope there has got to be some sweet loot, including weapons. Right?! :D
We're playing with ABP, so you are not going to be getting any magic weapons. Whatever the adventure drops is not going to be any better than what you bring in (baring special materials). In fact because of ABP attunement, you are not going to be using whatever the adventure drops for another 24 hours unless you don't like using your ABP bonus.
Is it actually like that Groff? We cannot encounter weapons with 'special' properties?
Oh, and just to make sure you're seeing them, the build rules are over on the campaign info page, but here's a copy of them:
Thank you Zorblag, I have indeed taken the creation rules into account, but it is good to read them over again. The only portion I still have not managed to grasp yet is the capacity system described in the Unleashing Unchained...
Like I told Grimm earlier, if you're using familiars for things like scouting then I'm going to have things attack them if they get spotted, so it might not be worth the potential cost.
Yep my character does have a Familiar, but it will not be used to Scout :P
Crunch below.
Helgash
Male half-orc investigator (empiricist) 6/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1/magus* (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 100, 125)
CG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 16, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +5 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 58 (7 HD; 6d8+1d10+18)
Fort +9, Ref +15, Will +9 (+2 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects)
Defensive Abilities sacred tattoo[APG], trap sense +2; Resist unfailing logic
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 adamantine rapier +13 (1d6+10/18-20 plus 3 melee precision damage)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+2, 5 points), deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (4), studied combat (+3, 3 rounds), studied strike +2d6
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . 2nd—alchemical allocation[APG], barkskin, levitate, see invisibility
. . 1st—endure elements, heightened awareness[ACG], long arm[ACG], monkey fish[ACG], shield
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 13, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +7; CMD 22
Feats Alertness, Combat Expertise, Extra Investigator Talent[ACG], Fencing Grace, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits fate's favored, outcast, student of philosophy
Skills Acrobatics +15, Bluff -1 (+3 to lie (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Craft (alchemy) +11 (+17 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy -1 (+3 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma), -3 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized, +3 to persuade others but not to gather information (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Disable Device +18, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +10, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +7, Linguistics +13, Perception +15, Sense Motive +5 (+3 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized), Spellcraft +13, Stealth +15, Survival +8, Use Magic Device +13; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Daemonic, Draconic, Druidic, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +6), ceaseless observation, human investigator, inspiration (6/day), inspired panache, investigator talents (extend potion, mutagen[UM], quick study[ACG]), keen recollection, magus arcana (familiar[UM]), mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 60 minutes), orc blood, pride, trapfinding +3
Combat Gear mutagen[APG], potion of bless weapon, potion of fly, wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear mwk mithral chain shirt, mwk buckler, mwk adamantine rapier, daredevil boots[ARG], four-leaf clover[OA], investigator starting formula book, masterwork thieves' tools
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Special Abilities
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+2 formulas in formula book Add one extract formula from the investigator’s formula list to his formula book. This formula must be at least 1 formula level below the highest level the investigator can create.
Alchemy +6 (Su) +6 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Arcane Pool +2 (5/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+4)
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deeds
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Extend Potion (3/day) Cause any non-instantaneous potion to have 2x duration.
Familiar Bonus: +2 to Fortitude saves You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Fencing Grace Get Dex to dmg with rapiers and +2 CMD vs disarm if you have panache.
Inspiration (+1d6, 6/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Mutagen This discovery gives the alchemist the mutagen class ability, as described in the Advanced Player's Guide. (This discovery exists so alchemist archetypes who have variant mutagens, such as the mindchemist, can learn how to make standard mutage
Mutagen (DC 16) (Su) Mutagen adds +4/-2 to physical/mental attributes, and +2 nat. armor for 60 minutes.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Pride -2 to diplomacy and sense motive vs. those who threaten, accuse, or challenge you, until they apologize
Quick Study (Ex) Use studied combat as a swift action.
Sacred Tattoo +1 to all saves.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Speak with Animals (Ex) Your familiar can communicate with animals similar to itself.
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Studied Combat (+3, 3 rounds) (Ex) As a swift action, study foe to gain bonus to att & dam for duration or until use studied strike.
Studied Strike +2d6 (Ex) As a free action on a melee hit, end studied combat vs. foe to add precision dam.
Trap Sense +2 (Ex) +2 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +3 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Unfailing Logic +2 (Ex) +2 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects
And
Coal
Rat (protector) (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 132)
N Tiny magical beast (animal)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+2 Dex, +4 natural, +2 size)
hp 29 (1d8)
Fort +2, Ref +9, Will +6
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Offense
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Speed 15 ft., climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.
Melee bite +9 (1d3-4)
Space 2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
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Statistics
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Str 2, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 2
Base Atk +5; CMB +5; CMD 11 (15 vs. trip)
Feats Bodyguard[APG], Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse
[b]Skills Acrobatics +12 (+4 to jump), Climb +10, Disable Device +7, Linguistics +6, Perception +11, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +24, Survival +4, Swim +10, Use Magic Device +3; Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth
Languages speak with master
SQ empathic link, loyal bodyguard, shield master
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Special Abilities
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Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Climb (15 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Empathic Link (Su) You have an empathic link with your master.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Loyal Bodyguard (Ex) Can use Bodyguard to protect master, even if not threatening attacker.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ ft. by sense of smell.
Share Spells Spells with a target of "You" can be delivered by a familiar with a range of touch.
Shield Master (Su) Familiar can take half damage done to you, as shield other
Speak with Master (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your master.
Swim (15 feet) You have a Swim speed.
| Zorblag |
That's looking good so far!
It's early in the day, so I'm probably just missing it, but how are you getting to 1d6 + 10 damage (+3 precision) for the rapier by default? I can see the +1 from the weapon and the +5 from dex, but I can't figure out the rest of it. I also can't find one of the +13 to hit, where I get +5 BAB, +5 Dex, +1 weapon, +1 weapon focus. I assume hero lab is doing the calculations, so the should be right, but I'm curious where the other bits are coming from.
I'm pretty sure you don't have access to druidic as a language as you're not a druid.
You can go ahead and add Deft Maneuvers (with your rapier) to your feats (from the Elephants in the Room.) Unchained rogues get it to replace the weapon finesse they get, so it seems like a reasonable replacement for Inspired Blade as well. I don't know that that will be feasible to do with herolab, so you might or might not write it down on the character sheet.
Do you plan to do anything to make spellstrike useful to you when you get to level 11? VMC Magus seems to make that a bit of a dead level for non-spellcasters.
Re: weapons with magic properties. You probably will find some throughout the adventure. They'll be something like Capacity 1 flaming instead of +1 flaming. The flaming acts like normal and the capacity will just be the maximum enhancement you can add from ABP while attuning to it. You'll be able to increase the capacity of weapons (so the maximum enhancement bonus you can apply,) using the chart for the cost just like you'd normally be able to improve a magic weapon.
| Albion, The Eye |
Hi Zorblag, the breakdown is:
Damage d6+10 (+3)
1d6 [Rapier Base]
+5 [Dex]
+4 [Power Attack]
+1 [Magical Weapon]
+3 [This one is from Quick Study, when used - should be frequent since it is a Swift Action]
To-Hit +13
+5 [BAB]
+5 [Dex]
+1 [Weapon Focus]
+1 [Magical Weapon]
+3 [This one is from Quick Study, when used - should be frequent since it is a Swift Action]
-2 [Power Attack]
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Sweet on Deft Maneuvers. Thx!
Spellstrike... Yep, feels like a dead level, unless I can somehow swap it with something else from the Magus? I need to take another (closer) read at VMC (since this is the first character I ever make with it :O)
Also understood on the weapons - what I am trying to understand is if the ABP and the Capacity rules actually have an impact on the decision of dropping this weapon for that. I believe they do, but loot still has value, which in my book is really cool.
Last note, on the character I presented, I may actually swap my other 'Extra Investigator Talent' feat with Weapon Versatility - would that be ok?
| Zorblag |
OK, so it's assuming you're using power attack and studied combat, that makes a lot more sense.
There's not typically a way to switch out part of a VMC for another feature from the class, but we can talk about it when we get closer to 11. Or maybe you'll find a way to get access to a cantrip that you could use with it at some point. It's nothing I'm too concerned about now, I was just curious.
For ABP and Capacity you'd be able to use a new weapon you found right away, but Groff is right that you'd need to wait a day to attune to the new weapon to take advantage of its capacity (if that's what was confusing?) It won't be an issue most of the time I'd imagine, but we'll make sure to have it make sense for any weapons that you come across that you might want to make use of in any case.
I'm fine with switching over to weapon versatility instead of one of your investigator talents; you get to choose your own feats.
| Albion, The Eye |
OK, so it's assuming you're using power attack and studied combat, that makes a lot more sense.
There's not typically a way to switch out part of a VMC for another feature from the class, but we can talk about it when we get closer to 11. Or maybe you'll find a way to get access to a cantrip that you could use with it at some point. It's nothing I'm too concerned about now, I was just curious.
Or I can be dead well before any such considerations are relevant :P
Some added considerations on how he is built - I only added DD and Stealth ranks so we could have an idea of how it would look.
I think Tristan is already VERY solidly built to Disable Devices efficiently, so I may just get enough ranks to Aid him consistently. Then I may invest max skill ranks in Stealth, because... Why not? And Spellcraft, because it is a real schtick for Investigators ;)
---
I have been obsessing a bit, and going back and forth between the two versions of this same character - the STR and the DEX one. They both have things I like, but I think this time I will stick with the DEX version, as when I play melee characters they are STR based 99% of the time, so it will be a nice change of pace.
Also, crazy damage numbers lead to rocket-tagging, and I dislike it profoundly :P
| Groff the glib |
It's funny. The only time I've ever seen stealth used consistently well is on the game I'm running where they have the teamwork feat where everyone shares the best stealth roll. Otherwise someone always flubs it at the wrong time, and there comes the beatdown.
They used to try to use stealth before that and it never went well.
| Zorblag |
It sounds like builds are mostly getting to be finished at this point, so I figure it's time to start looking at, er, timing.
I plan to post a first couple RP posts in the main thread on Sunday. They'll take place in Bard's Gate before the expedition to Tsar and the surrounding area heads out. It'll give anyone who wants to a chance to ask questions in game about what's expected of you and what you can expect as well as establish who your contacts back at Bard's Gate will be while you're out in the field.
We'll then make sure that everyone's happy with their characters and that you've had a chance to coordinate preparing for the expedition. When that's set we'll skip forward to the start of the game play proper. That transition can take as much or as little time as group needs to get ready.
If that doesn't work for anyone for any reason, do let me know, but it feels like we're getting close at this point (hurray!)
| Albion, The Eye |
Hey guys, some minor updates on Helgash - Weapon Versatility Feat is one, some skill changes and minor magical items. Still not done though, and please feel free to offer suggestions / comments on the crunch.
Helgash
Male half-orc investigator (empiricist) 6/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1/magus* (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 100, 125)
CG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 16, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +5 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 58 (7 HD; 6d8+1d10+18)
Fort +9, Ref +15, Will +9 (+2 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects)
Defensive Abilities sacred tattoo[APG], trap sense +2; Resist unfailing logic
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 adamantine rapier +13 (1d6+10/18-20 plus 3 melee precision damage)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+2, 5 points), deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (4), studied combat (+3, 3 rounds), studied strike +2d6
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 6th; concentration +9)
. . 2nd—alchemical allocation[APG], barkskin, levitate, see invisibility
. . 1st—expeditious retreat, heightened awareness[ACG], long arm[ACG], shield
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +7; CMD 22
Feats Alertness, Combat Expertise, Fencing Grace, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (rapier), Weapon Versatility
Traits fate's favored, outcast, student of philosophy
Skills Acrobatics +15, Bluff +3 (+7 to lie (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Climb +5, Craft (alchemy) +11 (+17 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy -1 (+3 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma), -3 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized, +3 to persuade others but not to gather information (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Disable Device +12, Disguise +3, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +10, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +7, Linguistics +13, Perception +15, Sense Motive +10 (+8 vs. Creatures that threaten, accuse, or challenge you and haven't apologized), Spellcraft +13, Stealth +15, Survival +8, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +14; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Daemonic, Draconic, Druidic, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +6), ceaseless observation, human investigator, inspiration (6/day), inspired panache, investigator talents (mutagen[UM], quick study[ACG]), keen recollection, magus arcana (familiar[UM]), mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 60 minutes), orc blood, pride, trapfinding +3
Combat Gear mutagen[APG], potion of bless weapon, potion of endure elements, scroll of monkey fish, monkey fish, wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear mwk mithral chain shirt, mwk buckler, mwk adamantine rapier, daredevil boots[ARG], four-leaf clover[OA], ioun stone, pink and green sphere, cracked, investigator starting formula book, masterwork backpack[APG], masterwork thieves' tools, silk rope (50 ft.)
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Special Abilities
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+2 formulas in formula book Add one extract formula from the investigator’s formula list to his formula book. This formula must be at least 1 formula level below the highest level the investigator can create.
Alchemy +6 (Su) +6 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Arcane Pool +2 (5/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+4)
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deeds
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Familiar Bonus: +2 to Fortitude saves You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Fencing Grace Get Dex to dmg with rapiers and +2 CMD vs disarm if you have panache.
Inspiration (+1d6, 6/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Mutagen This discovery gives the alchemist the mutagen class ability, as described in the Advanced Player's Guide. (This discovery exists so alchemist archetypes who have variant mutagens, such as the mindchemist, can learn how to make standard mutage
Mutagen (DC 16) (Su) Mutagen adds +4/-2 to physical/mental attributes, and +2 nat. armor for 60 minutes.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Pride -2 to diplomacy and sense motive vs. those who threaten, accuse, or challenge you, until they apologize
Quick Study (Ex) Use studied combat as a swift action.
Sacred Tattoo +1 to all saves.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Speak with Animals (Ex) Your familiar can communicate with animals similar to itself.
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Studied Combat (+3, 3 rounds) (Ex) As a swift action, study foe to gain bonus to att & dam for duration or until use studied strike.
Studied Strike +2d6 (Ex) As a free action on a melee hit, end studied combat vs. foe to add precision dam.
Trap Sense +2 (Ex) +2 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +3 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Unfailing Logic +2 (Ex) +2 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects
Weapon Versatility Weapon w/ Weapon Focus: shift grip to alter damage to B/P/S (free act.).
As for aesthetics, this is what I have in mind - just please ignore about the fact I am carrying no pistol, and that Solomon Kane is a human and I am an Half-Orc :)
Those looks are just bad-#$&. No way to go wrong with Buscema.