I've heard some funny ways of dealing with it in podcasts, like detecting, then stepping a foot to the right, then detecting, stepping again, detecting, and so on. But, that'd only work if you set up everything in a logical line. I guess it adds to the mystique...dunno
The fog of war moving as we do is neat!
Phew! Glad that works...that's the Roll20 "new" Dynamic Lighting. Should be really cool for big dungeon crawls;) Let me know if anyone has any issues seeing it; I only have one other game in which I'm using it, so still working out the kinks.
Flenser leaves the doughty paladin and attempts to aid ‘Vorak...
[dice=Aid]1d20 + 1
Trained in ... Perception, Acrobatics, and Athletics. Animal companions can’t use abilities that require greater Intelligence, such as Coerce or Decipher Writing, even if trained in the appropriate skill, unless they have a specialization that allows it.
I would argue from the AC entries, they have access to all skills they have the mental capacity to use. Some skills they are just trained in base, while others they can utilize untrained.
That said, I suspect they wouldn't be able to roll 'Arcana' but they'd have no issue rolling for survival or even intimidate/diplomacy, etc.
Sorry, I was a bit unclear on the nature of the dog gate. You can stab through it, but slashing and bludgeoning wouldn't do anything. It's basically a lattice work of iron bars
Ah. I thought the gate was open.
Not yet...it'll take a round to get up
It is possible there is another pressure plate / latch that will reverse the grate... would be a reason why the grate opens so slowly.
You can certainly look, though that is an action in 2E
Dogs are dead, questions will have to wait till I'm at a computer on Monday. But dogs still dead
Actually reddit has a combo on it
Page 278: When you make an attack and roll a natural 20 (the number on the die is 20), or if the result of your attack exceeds the target’s AC by 10, you achieve a critical success (also known as a critical hit).
Page 445: You critically succeed at a check when a check’s result meets or exceeds the DC by 10 or more. If the check is an attack roll, this is sometimes called a critical hit. You can also critically fail a check. The rules for critical failure— sometimes called a fumble—are the same as those for a critical success, but in the other direction: if you fail a check by 10 or more, that’s a critical failure. If you rolled a 20 on the die (a “natural 20”), your result is one degree of success better than it would be by numbers alone. If you roll a 1 on the d20 (a “natural 1”), your result is one degree worse.
So, is a 20 a critical success always like page 278, or is it one degree better like page 445? Also, what are the rules on critical failure? I believe, given that there is nothing specific for a critical failure rule for an attack roll, that it serves simply as another "step" down from failure with no additional penalty or fumble.
That what you mean? The convo goes on with a bunch of back and forth, but it looks like most say that the one on page 445 is right. So that would've been a normal hit not a crit
Lol, combo...phone typing...
Now I'm completely confused - Vorak, I'd thought you were bringing up that rule because it wouldn't have been a crit. But, looking at it - it was a nat 20, for an actual 16. Unless your statline is wrong, that 16 would still be a hit, and the nat 20 would make it a crit. Please let me know what I'm missing.
And, yes - in the madness, I missed Aurumvorak's second hit - that 16 would have hit the dog as well. I'd rather not completely bog this down in this conversation, so you're currently in this empty room, dogs dead - is there anything you'd like to do?
Heh, no, I thought it was a crit. Just trying to work out what a natural 20 means, what 10 more than required means etc... I think your spoiler above covers it...
Ah, gotcha...understood. So, from here on out, we're going with a nat 20 just moving the success of the check up by 1 level. So, it would make a failure a success, or make a success a critical. Sound good?
I...think so. ;)
Will read any and all errata as I have time.
Sheesh, for a simpler system...is very complicated.
Lol, I know right? I'm thinking 5E may be my jam...feeling too stoopit for the Path these days
I feel like you said something but I can’t for the life of me read it...
Srsly, 5e is my worst nightmare. I get the simplicity, but the advantage/disadvantage mechanic bugs me to tears and I can’t for the life of me enjoy the design/mechanical approach. Been playing since @1982 and it just doesn’t do it for me.
PF2e is interesting, I think I prefer PF1, but am moving on. I do really like portions of PF2e, but some bits I hate as much as bits of 5e.
And to be honest, I really liked some aspects of 4e, but not so much as an RPG but as a weird design approach. It looked like a CRPG brought to pen and paper, crossed with a miniatures game. Powers with cooldowns and awesome tactical options for a grid. I liked the bloodied mechanic and associated powers and abilities to make combats swing back and forth. The classes were cool too, in the kind of superhero, everyone is magical and in a mythic computer game kind of way.
Given I prefer lower magic games, PF2e may be able to present that better than PF1e.
Gotcha; I honestly never played much 5E at all - I tried one game, but found I was missing the flavor of Golarion too much. I never tried 4th....fondly remember DND 2nd edition though...that was great.
I do enjoy PF2e for the most part, just was hoping for a simpler game mechanically since I really don't like to have to read errata on rules. I enjoy the flavor and story of the AP's and adventures, which is why I run them...I only see the rules as a means to an end.
Oh well; as long as you guys are cool with me consistently screwing up, I'm going to keep running them and moving into PF2e;)
I see no screw ups! Thanks again for running (and playing in) the games I’m in...
Yeah, 5E is a little too simplified. I miss the tactics. The game may as well be theater of the mind, except then the players wouldn't be able to show off their artwork :D.
I've heard that if you use all of the optional rules, it is more appealing to Pathfinder players.
Frankly, I don't see why the critical hit rule is "complicated". It just takes some getting used to. It removes the issue of looking up the crit range on your weapon every time you roll high, removes the questions about which modifiers get doubled and which don't.
Frankly, getting rid of the confirmation roll is boost enough to say it is simpler.
Personally, I have yet to find anything I don't like about 2E. It may not be simple enough to draw in the cosplayers and artists who like 5E, but it eliminates a lot of the crunch that just gets in the way of enjoyable role play.
Oh, criticals are simpler for that very reason, but complicated in that the natural 20 and the 10+ have...interesting ways of interacting with needed scores.
As for things I don’t like:
* Crossbows don’t have the deadly trait
* [already complained about this on Discord] You get -2 “item penalty” to attacks with improvised weapons. So, compared to a fist, which “almost all characters start out trained in” you are at a 4 point disadvantage to whack someone with a bottle (base -2 to hit) compared to a fist (base +2 to hit).
* Not enough feats to actually be your race from 1st level. In fact the whole concept of “growing into your race” I hate.
* “raising” a shield eats an action, like, what were you doing with it before, using it as a table or gameboard? Also, shields aren’t actually very useful for taking damage...but...
* A bunch of class, racial and general feats...which I can list when I run a game...
* The new errata concerning Dex and maneuvers and MAP...
* tacitly tying the rules into Golarion
* sickles only do 1d4 damage... ;)
But mostly I love the...
* martial options (fighter/rogue/ranger combat feats/tricks),
* the action economy is great, though I think it then gets screwed over by some actions/feats/shields
* silver standard economy
* options for Initiative (Perception, Stealth, Battle Chef [“Somehow, you see the enemy in the reflection of your saucepan”] Tiddlywinks [“just as you are about to make a shot, your tiddlywink picks up a vibration from the hidden foe”] etc...)
* removal of Touch/Flat footed AC
* ease of character creation, though I feel backgrounds are a bit blunt
* simple monster stats
* shields give AC as well as soak damage, but....
* removal of “you can’t attack adjacent creatures with your reach weapon”
* removal of “firing into melee” penalty
I feel like you said something but I can’t for the life of me read it...
Srsly, 5e is my worst nightmare. I get the simplicity, but the advantage/disadvantage mechanic bugs me to tears and I can’t for the life of me enjoy the design/mechanical approach. Been playing since @1982 and it just doesn’t do it for me.
Totally agree about 5E. Plus, it is just ... sooooo BORING compared to other versions I've played. That is its most venal sin, IMO.
I definitely prefer PF1 to PF2 as well, so far.
I guess I don't need / want 'simplicity' in my RPG systems.
I do think the damage output by bad guys in this PF2 module is way too high, especially on crits, for level 1 to keep up with.
That's been my biggest concern about PF2 so far.
I never played D&D myself. I started with Pathfinder 1e and have done some SFS and the obvious PFS 2e.
Some aspects of 1e, I like better. Others I prefer the way 2e handles them.
I know this is contradictory, but I am a huge fan of the amount of damage the bosses can put out. I find it much less bland than some of the Pathfinder 1e fights. A level 20 boss shouldn't be able to be defeated in under 3 rounds...I felt a lot of the fights in PFS 1e were nerfed to make it harder to loose.
If there's not a chance of failure, then what's it matter what our characters do? Where's the heroics?
Just my 2 cents worth. :-P
When the party has means to come back from death or near death, then I mind it a lot less.
At levels 1-4, the party has no such means. In PF2 money and magic is very scarce, so we probably wouldn't be able to fix character death for a very, very long time -- more than 4 levels.
I don't mind difficulty either, but when it becomes 1 outta every 3 or 4 combats that people are being nearly killed ... that to me shows a flaw in the system.
D&D -- well, the difference between 2nd edition, 3rd edition (and 3.5), 4th edition and D&D "next" (5th ed.) is so incredibly drastic and vast ... you're bound to like 1 and hate at least 2 of the 4 versions. ;)
I agree with Nuk on boss-damage output. As an old grognard-era player, being killed is all part of the “fun” GM. Nayr pretty much TPK’ed the party in his RoW game - three of us made new characters...
My son plays a lot of FPS Campaigns - Titanfall 1/2, Borderlands 1/2/3, Warframe, Destiny, Anthem etc. Endless rezzing returning to save checkpoints and no true death. The game for him is about finding out the plot and story while endlessly unleashing hot death and upgrading equipment/looting. Which I can enjoy to a degree but sometimes I want some urgency and consequence.
I do see your point Jace, if it is constantly an unwinnable slog that could definitely suck...
Lol, that was fun...
Yep, it was pretty funny. Particularly where I tried to run away and died, and the one surviving party member did run away. And it was nowhere even near the “boss”.
It's the same map - you're just shifted over to a slightly different area. Let me know if you can't see
Ouch, sorry Nuk. Good thing you have an NPC healer, eh?
No worries GM.
Expiring is always a risk in this game. :-)
Besides, I've yet to play an oracle or a cleric in 2e. lol
Nice Jace! Not sure you need the NPC healer...
Nice Jace! Not sure you need the NPC healer...
That's my last spell for the day :(
HealBotTolgy still has like ... 4? Plus his normal slots? Eesh. I cannot keep up w/ that ever...
But I'm trying ;)
Sorry for the absence...RL hit me hard this past week and I've neglected things because of it.
Getting back into it
NW buddy, all good
Sorry for the absence...RL hit me hard this past week and I've neglected things because of it.
Getting back into it
Welcome back, RePete!
Think Tolgy has 3 heals left, if that helps
Are we stuck, or am I misreading this? I'm getting that some want to go back to town and others want to press on.
I'm taking it as everyone except Nuktik has an interest in a tactical retreat currently. Nuktik won't push on alone, unless he feels he must. In this situation, he would begrudgingly retreat with his companions.
As a player, I certainly see the wisdom in a retreat currently even if Nuktik is against it. ;-)
Kuntaxl is currently a sherpa and following.
He isn't overly worried about moving forward, but also recognizes that this complex has been harder than anticipated.
The majority seem to be in favor of retreating.
We're retreating. We expected to fight inside some guy's house, not a giant underground mystery cavern lair lol...
Aurum is being kept alive through the spirit link, and I don't have much HP left to give. We're both low on spells, as well.
Aurum sees nothing but doom and death everywhere. And misses his wolf. So he is leaving.
I will be out for the holidays between 12/27 and 1/3. Posting will be severely limited. Happy Holidays everyone!
In case anyone wanted to know what Jace looks like.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DqWKsxbj2cqO0-S_msZiHxz3M2dPeYjB/view?usp= sharing
Jace - linked for you.
Very nice - you did the illustration?
Oh no, sadly I have no drawing skill.
I hired a very nice guy named Ryan who did it for me. :)
Thanks for fixing the link!
Very cool!
Very nice!
Sorry for my being MIA...