GM Valen's The Sandstone Secret (PFS2e Quest 1 - March 2020) (Inactive)

Game Master Lysle

I think I can figure out HOW to do the rolls but for the lore check just now I'm not entirely sure WHAT I should roll? Is it a certain stat or skill like a lore check?

Beckett also makes his way through the bazaar purchasing the necessary inks and materials. He will purchase 12 gold worth of supplies.

Along the way, he engages in discussions with the others and shares what Arcane knowledge he can. He seems fascinated by Tanuak's scrimshaw spellbook.

1st Arcana: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (10) + 8 = 18
2nd Arcana: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (14) + 8 = 22
3rd Arcana: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (9) + 8 = 17
4th Arcana: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (3) + 8 = 11
5th Arcana: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (10) + 8 = 18
6th Arcana: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (4) + 8 = 12

After absorbing what knowledge he can Beckett copies the new spells into his book.

Successfully copied four spells into my book. He fails to learn two spells but because they are not critical failures he doesn't expend the materials. How does the line about trying again after I level work in organized play since I likely won't have the same GM or the people I was attempting to learn from present?

I think I can figure out HOW to do the rolls but for the lore check just now I'm not entirely sure WHAT I should roll? Is it a certain stat or skill like a lore check?

The check is a Society skill check (unless a PC has the specific Pathfinder Society Lore skill).

To roll, you simply input the dice expression as such (using "[]" in place of "{}".

{dice=Society}1d20+6{/dice}

How does the line about trying again after I level work in organized play since I likely won't have the same GM or the people I was attempting to learn from present?

Just answering as I would do it as a GM (and I used to be a VC): I imagine the GM could note this on your Chronicle Sheet.

Thank you for the help Valen :D I see where it says Society now, can't believe I missed that.

What are some exploration modes? I've not heard that one before

Exporation Modes are discussed in the Core Rulebook on pg. 479-480. The following are the most used:

Search -- Move at half-speed, looking for secret doors, hazards, etc.

Avoid Notice -- Move at half-speed, making Stealth rolls to move un-noticed (typically used by Rogues who can get Sneak attacks in by approaching in this manner.

Defend -- Move at half-speed, readying your shield if combat starts

Detect Magic or Repeat A Spell -- Move at half-speed, regularly casting that cantrip

Other modes: Follow The Expert, Hustle, Investigate, Scout

Scout is used a lot too, since it gives a +1 to everyone's Initiative.

Haha....we're really killing it with those Society rolls to learn about those beetles! They are a real mystery!

Good point about Scout. Haven't seen it used too much in our face-to-face games, but it's useful.

Jayma since you rolled Perception as part of your exploration mode you could use the Search action if you were looking to change your Exploration Mode.

Edit: Or Investigate! Seems you were already thinking along those lines.

Valen, Beckett speaks Osiriani and is trained in Ancient Osirion Lore if anything like that comes up.

No much point in three of us doing Detect Magic.

There is no point at all, even in having two people take that, since it is automatic (nothing to roll to have it work).

Tanuak will take Search-- so we have an extra Seek roll vs. Hazards and hidden doors etc..

So I'm trying to have Kel Seek down the hallway using his Whisper Elf feat, it allows me to do a 60-foot cone instead of the standard 30 (kind of overkill maybe haha but better safe than sorry and all that ;)).

The only thing I'm unsure about is if I add the +2 circumstance bonus to the Perception roll or no? Is the circumstance bonus more a reactionary thing?

One way to handle it: Since the +2 bonus only applies to undetected creatures, it's probably best to make your normal Perception roll, and then include an OOC comment like Whisper Elf provides 60' range and a +2 for undetected creatures within 30'. Then Valen can add the bonus if appropriate. Unless the GM has played a Whisper Elf, chances are he doesn't have the nuances of every ancestry memorized. Yet. :)

Thank you! I didn't even think of that, I'll do that then. Thank you Jeeves!

Valen (or anyone else who may know) --

Regarding the Bard Focus spell: Inspire Competence. It says the following:
"Your encouragement inspires your ally to succeed at a task. This counts as having taken sufficient preparatory actions to Aid your ally on a skill check of your choice, regardless of the circumstances. When you later use the Aid reaction, you can roll Performance instead of the normal skill check, and if you roll a failure, you get a success instead."

For Aid, the PC must explain how they're helping. With the Perception roll, Jeeves pointed out the location, triggers, etc. So that should be fine.

My question is: Since this particular task requires a Trained Thievery roll, would Inspire Competence still work if the bard isn't trained. In the spell description above, it specifically says the bard can Aid your ally on a skill check of your choice, regardless of the circumstances.

Here is the blurb on aiding another that you find in the CRB.

Right ... I read that. My question is does Inspire Competence still require the Bard to be trained, because Inspire Competence explicitly says regardless of circumstances.

Just from the part you quoted it looks like you can aid because you use Performance to aid the Thievery check and you are trained in Performance. The person making the primary check would still need to be trained in Thievery.

Nothing in Aid Another calls for anybody to be trained in the skill they are Aiding with, as I read it at least.

You must explain to the GM exactly how you’re trying to help, and they determine whether you can Aid your ally.

Jeeves decides to massage the thief's feet so he will be nice and relaxed while trying to disarm the trap.

When you use your Aid reaction, attempt a skill check or attack roll of a type decided by the GM.

Thus, here too, it lets the GM decide you can aid w. Thievery w/o being trained in Thievery.

And Inspire Competence lets you use Perform instead of whatever skill is needed thus it should most probably be that you can Aid pretty much anything.
If I remember correctly, the only indications in the CRB where you cannot Aid w. perform, is singing to help someone sneak and such (nothing about not being able to help w. skills you are untrained it).
It seems to me you can Aid everything if the GM is okay.
For what it is worth, I have seen PF 2E Bards aid w. Thievery, so, interested to see how it is adjudicated here too.

Thanks all. Makes sense. Obviously, Valen will make the final determination. But I'll give it a shot just for fun. Although as I look at Jayma's excellent Thievery roll, she doesn't need any bardic inspiration anyhow!

Maybe it is my PFS1 mindset of how bard's "should' work, but Tanauk's explanation makes sense to me.

However, thanks to Jayma's ancestors, I don't need to make the call.

Tanuak and I have been exchanging messages about the limits of what our characters may do with their familiars. His view is the more restrictive one that familiars are basically flair and that they do not get to act in any meaningful way except when their master spends an action to command them in an encounter, at which time they get two actions of their own. The rest of the time they basically just sit on their master's shoulder and look pretty. They aren't even allowed to move on their own without being constantly commanded to follow.

My view is perhaps a bit more expansive, in that I believe that the rules are written in such a way as to essentially encourage familiars to be used for scouting and communicating with others at distance (assuming the have Speech). That they are a way to extent the reach of their master in certain limited non-offensive ways. That they are capable of carrying out longer-term activities without having to be constantly commanded by their master.

CRB pp218 includes the line "[Your familiar] can communicate empathically with you as long as it's within 1 mile of you," which seems to suggest that your familiar may be sent some distance away, not something you generally do in an encounter. They have separate stats for Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth, which suggests that they are able to act independently from their Master to some extent.

So, just so we're all on the same page for this adventure, what does the GM say? I don't want to waste time having Jayma send Twyl on a scouting or message delivery run if there's no point.

To be fair, I never said that that was my view.
I do not think I even mentioned how I handle them in my PFS games.
I simply said that one must be careful w. familiars in PFS.
I know that if I were to play in a scenario I would clear things before on how the GM handles familiars (for a quest I figure it is not too important if he becomes un-usable).
This is one of the very unclearly written set of rules, that people interpret quite differently. And since PFS is rules as written... there have been pages of discussion since day 1 on the PFS forums etc. and I have seen a big variation of what GMs do w. familiars (even w. what is "empathic": from GMs who do not care and let you use it as "speaking via feelings" and others who use it as "feelings" only, restricting it to things like "fear, scared, calm, safe..." .

Since you bring it up (and w/o this remark having anything to do w. how it will be managed here, since that is up to our GM), your "she commands him. (empathically)" should not be an issue (in combat at least).
Since it seems that you "spend an action to issue it commands" (it being a minion) and "for a minion that’s a spell or magic item effect", that, "if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command, a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits."

The other rule that I feel can be important to check on w. the GM before playing is Battle Medicine, if it is an important part of your build (and you boosted it w. other Feats).
By the rules it takes no hands to use and no use of any kit.
But many GMs dislike this and find it "illogical" and thus have it take 1 hand, or 2 hands, to use.
So, if you have a Sword & Shield carrying Fighter w. Battle Medicine, and you are not allowed to heal as you expect-- it can be worth changing characters or adapting, or at least finding out before you are about to die and thought you could heal.

Sorry Tanuak, I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth or assume too much about your personal views on the matter.

Your messages merely suggested that there was a difference of opinion concerning the default range of familiar’s abilities outside of an encounter situation, and what the bandwidth of the mental link between it and its master was. Frankly, being relatively new to Pathfinder and playing a familiar for the first time, I did not know that such an argument even existed.

Having looked into the matter since receiving your messages, I now have a better idea of the situation and, as you suggested, am asking the GM about it to see how he wants us to deal with our familiars in this adventure. Personally, I really don’t care either way how the GM rules as long as I know what it is and can role-play it accordingly.

Also, I only just found the description of the ‘minion’ trait on CRB pp634 from which you pulled your quotes. Very enlightening; puts a slightly different spin on things; I wish I’d found it sooner. So, it appears that commanding a familiar is like casting a 1 action spell with a verbal component. The master says something (though perhaps not the actual command, given that the familiar may not understand language), and then concentrates to send the actual command empathically to the familiar. Do I have that right?

I clearly have much to learn about how Pathfinder is played in the wild. Reading the rules only gets you so far, apparently. Your questions about Battle Medicine being a case in point.

So sorry I've been semi-absent the last day or two, they've kind of blurred together so I can't remember the last time I made a post lol. I'll be sure to get out a post today after work or during lunch today for sure!

@ Jayma - I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with, well, the familiar rules. I'll look into them, but I suspect that for the purposes of this short quest, the exceptions likely won't come into play.

@ Kel - No need to apologize. I think you will find that this table is moving considerably faster than most PbP games on these forums. I, too, feel like I am falling behind the pace, but I am certainly enjoying the roleplaying!

lol That's good to know, I was thinking this is faster than any PbP things I've done. It's actually kind of refreshing and the roleplay is great, everybody's got great characters and I LOVE Jeeves' singing for the bardic inspiration really great work!

Ok, I’ll play Twyl RAW. No biggie.

So just a Craft check for making those flasks right? Do you want me to roll for each one?

Thanks for the support, Kel. Having fun with the rhymes!

As for Battle Medicine, not only does it require being trained in Medicine, but it talks about how it functions as Treat Wounds (in terms of DC and damage healed). Given that, it's reasonable to assume that it has the same requirements as Treat Wounds, namely a set of Healer's Tools. I could see an argument where the Healers Tools aren't specifically mentioned, but Treat Wounds is, and it's clearly a prereq for that.

And yes, agreed that it's also logical that it takes a free hand to administer the healing. While it may not state that explicitly, I would argue the rulebook would be unwieldy if every common sense requirement was spelled out.

In our face-to-face games (when we were once able to meet at our local game store), our GMs have always required Healers Tools and a free hand.

Let us not get into this debate here. There are pages of arguing with what you call logic, and what others call logic and is the opposite of yours etc..

@ Jayma - I have to admit, I'm not that familiar with, well, the familiar rules. I'll look into them, but I suspect that for the purposes of this short quest, the exceptions likely won't come into play.

@ Kel - No need to apologize. I think you will find that this table is moving considerably faster than most PbP games on these forums. I, too, feel like I am falling behind the pace, but I am certainly enjoying the roleplaying!

Yeah, this has been flowing really well and I'm really enjoying everyone's rp!

Don't forget your +1 to attack and damage. One point of damage can make the difference sometimes and the plus one to hit could be the difference between a hit and a crit.

@Jayma: sadly, I believe cantrips do not trigger the Blood Magic benefits:
Whenever you cast a bloodline spell using Focus Points or a granted spell from your bloodline using a spell slot, you gain a blood magic effect.

@Jayma: sadly, I believe cantrips do not trigger the Blood Magic benefits:

Whenever you cast a bloodline spell using Focus Points or a granted spell from your bloodline using a spell slot, you gain a blood magic effect.

Yes, I was afraid of that.

"A cantrip is a special type of spell that doesn’t use spell slots."

I assumed that all spells needed to be slotted in order to be cast; that sorcerers merely did this on-the-fly instead of having to pre-slot (prepare) them like wizards; and that the only difference between cantrips and higher level spells was that cantrips didn't burn the slot in the process of casting and could be reused without resting.

The source of this apparent confusion was my reading of wizard spellcasting on pp204: "At 1st level, you can prepare up to two 1st-level spells and five cantrips each morning...spells remain available to you until you cast them or until you prepare your spells again. The number of spells you can prepare is called your spell slots."

Apparently, the last sentence is not meant to imply that preparing a spell means that you pre-slot it, merely that it is available to you to cast that day, and that you will need to use up a slot to cast it if it is not a cantrip. Fundamentally, I did not have a good mental understanding of the mechanics of spellcasting in Pathfinder, thus my confusion.

TL;DR: Cantrips don't use spell slots and thus do not trigger Blood Magic.