The Fall of Plaguestone

Game Master Kevin O'Rourke 440

@Morsun. When you're actively stealthing sure. Try to remind me but at moments like exploring here I'll do my best to remember.

This round is no issue as it's completely appropriate.

All right, that makes sense. I'm still learning 2E, obviously.

Another question: In 1E, flanking an opponent gave a +2 bonus to attack, but in 2E, flanking just imposes the flat-footed condition, which in turn imposes a -2 AC penalty.

This puts the burden of imposing the 2 points on the defender instead of the attacker. Are you okay with keeping track of that whenever we declare we're trying to set up a flank, or do you want us to add +2 to our attack rolls?

I have the opponents base AC up in their initiative count. In this case 19, now you're flanking you know a 17 will hit so the first attack hit but not the rest from Morsun this round.

In 2e you generally get to know the DC before testing.

Things are crazy in my life right now. My wife is in public health, so she's working pretty much 24/7 due to COVID 19 stuff and a city-wide water supply issue here in Houston, so I'm pretty much single dad for a few weeks. I'll probably need to drop off for a day or two (like I did this weekend), here and there. I intend to catch up, but feel free to bot me if needed.

@Morsun: That's entirely understandable. Take care.

Right I'm currently in the process of moving so go its going to be a bit slower going for a while. Compounding that paizo wont let me log in on my phone so I can't even do quick posts when out and about currently.

Damn he had a vicious turn against you guys but he's already lost more than half of his hit points.

So, if those Hide and Sneak checks were successful, Morsun became Hidden and then Undetected. If the Hide check was not successful, I don't know if the Sneak check does anything at all. Maybe it would revert to a Hide check? I can't find the rules on that specific scenario.

Does anyone own the physical rule book? If so, is it laid out in a way that makes sense? I feel like I have to go to three different pages on Archives of Nethys for 2E to figure out how to do something.

(And I can't access pfsrd from work, if anyone's about to suggest that.)

Yes, I have the physical and PDF copies of the rulebook, and yes, it's laid out easily. Yes, Archives makes you jump around a lot, but I find that's the case with all the editions on Archives, not just PF2. I just notice it less for PF1 since I have so many of the rules internalized I rarely need to reference rules and hop around from page to page.

I'm explaining Hide and Sneak below in far more detail than you asked, so that if anyone's looking back it's all here instead of just part of the rules needed.

There are three conditions related to sneaking around: Observed, Hidden, and Undetected.
- Observed: You're in the creature's clear view. They know where you are and can see you.
- Hidden: The creature knows your location but can't see you. A creature you’re hidden from is flat-footed to you, and it must succeed at a DC 11 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect or it fails affect you.
- Undetected: The creature doesn't know your location. They can't target you (unless they just blindly guess and swing). When you’re undetected by a creature, that creature is flat-footed to you.

Hide allows you to go from being Observed to Hidden.
- If you succeed you're Hidden.
- If you fail, you're still Observed.

If you're Hidden or Undetected, you can Sneak. Sneak allows you to move around and remain Hidden or Undetected.
- If you failed a Hide check, you're Observed, not Hidden, so Sneak doesn't do anything for you.
- If you're Hidden and take an action other than Sneak, Step, or Hide, you're no longer Hidden; you're Observed.
- If you succeed at a Sneak check you're Undetected.
- If you fail on a Sneak check you're Hidden.
- If you critically fail on a Sneak check you're Observed.

There's a few contingencies on those Sneak checks. For example, if you're invisible (and your opponent can't detect invisible things) and you get a critical failure you get a failure instead. And your opponent can take a Seek action on their turn to find you, etc.

Anyway, to answer your question directly.
- If your Hide succeeds, then your Sneak succeeds, and yes, you're Undetected.
- If your Hide fails, you're Observed, not Hidden, so you cannot Sneak (or, you could Sneak but it doesn't work cause you're obviously right there in plain sight). You'll want to add a contingency to your posts in these cases. Like, you'll take another Hide action if your first fails, or something.

Yes, I have the physical and PDF copies of the rulebook, and yes, it's laid out easily. Yes, Archives makes you jump around a lot, but I find that's the case with all the editions on Archives, not just PF2. I just notice it less for PF1 since I have so many of the rules internalized I rarely need to reference rules and hop around from page to page.

That's fair, and it's probably similar for me.

Hide allows you to go from being Observed to Hidden.

- If you succeed you're Hidden.
- If you fail, you're still Observed.

If you're Hidden or Undetected, you can Sneak. Sneak allows you to move around and remain Hidden or Undetected.

Okay, that all makes sense, and is how I understood it also. The only thing that made me wonder if I was missing something is that as per the rules, I wouldn't know if I was Hidden or not because the GM is supposed to determine the result of the Hide check without telling the player. Which is fine, but it just seemed odd that I would then roll a Sneak check without any knowledge if I met the prerequisite to do so. And, also, I would have preferred to know if I should Hide again instead of wasting the action.

Thanks for taking the time to write it all out!

Yeah, it's a little wonky with the secret checks. If you're lucky your GM will give you a sign so you don't waste an action on a Sneak check that will autofail. *looks at GM*

Things are crazy in my life right now. My wife is in public health, so she's working pretty much 24/7 due to COVID 19 stuff and a city-wide water supply issue here in Houston, so I'm pretty much single dad for a few weeks. I'll probably need to drop off for a day or two (like I did this weekend), here and there. I intend to catch up, but feel free to bot me if needed.

Update: They closed the schools today through March 30th due to the community spread of the coronavirus. Next week is our Spring Break, so I've already taken the week off to watch the kids, but the week after that is still up in the air. Wife is still working crazy hours, children are still small and needy, but I should have some help from my retired mom occasionally. My youngest has really started acting out at school (we're assuming because of the drop in personal attention and an overall community anxiety that seems to be everywhere), so some time away from school may help her by giving her less she needs to rebel against and give her teacher a break. Anyway, I'll still be inconsistent from time to time.

@Morsun: That is totally understandable. Take care and good luck!

@Morson the DC against this guy is 19.

...I'm moving and working in healthcare so unfortunately not as much time for this as I would have liked right now.

Busy week! I'll be a bit before I have the time to level to 2, btw. Excited, though!

I'll level this weekend when I have time to look stuff up. Sorry for the delay.

I've also yet to level up. Will do so tonight or over the weekend.

Pathfinder 2e Official Leveling-Up Checklist

Leveling-Up Checklist

Source Core Rulebook pg. 31
Every time you gain a level, make sure you do each of the following:

Increase your level by 1 and subtract 1,000 XP from your XP total.
Increase your maximum Hit Points by the amount listed in your class entry in Chapter 3.
Add class features from your class advancement table, including ability boosts and skill increases.
Select feats as indicated on your class advancement table. For ancestry feats, see Chapter 2. For class feats, see your class entry in Chapter 3. For general feats and skill feats, see Chapter 5.
Add spells and spell slots if your class grants spellcasting. See Chapter 7 for spells.
Increase all of your proficiency bonuses by 1 from your new level, and make other increases to your proficiency bonuses as necessary from skill increases or other class features. Increase any other statistics that changed as a result of ability boosts or other abilities.
Adjust bonuses from feats and other abilities that are based on your level.

This is the first time I've leveled a 2e character. Looking over the skill feats, I think I'd like to go with either Alchemical Crafting or Magical Crafting, but to be honest I'm finding the rules mystifying. As often seems to be the case with 2e rules.

First off, are the crafting feats even allowed? 1st ed PFS didn't allow PCs to craft items.

Second, it looks like all you really need to craft items is time, money and a successful skill check, and that I'm allowed to pick any 4 items on the list that specify 'Alchemical' or 'Magical', depending on which craft feat I choose. Is this true? I mean, it looks like I can make healing potions and magic weapons of level 1 or 2. That seems really powerful.

Would this be a waste of a feat in a module that won't allow for days of downtime?

Most of the other skill feats seem useless, and this one seems incredibly powerful. It just seems like I must be missing something.

Barbarian Level 2 - Giant Instinct

HP 44 = 17 + 25

Rage Temp HP 6 = 2 + 4 Con

Barbarian feat: Sudden Charge - 2 actions

With a quick sprint, you dash up to your foe and swing. Stride twice. If you end your movement within melee reach of at least one enemy, you can make a melee Strike against that enemy. You can use Sudden Charge while Burrowing, Climbing, Flying, or Swimming instead of Striding if you have the corresponding movement type.

Skill Feat: Assurance (Intimidation)

Even in the worst circumstances, you can perform basic tasks. Choose a skill you’re trained in. You can forgo rolling a skill check for that skill to instead receive a result of 10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers).

Special You can select this feat multiple times. Each time, choose a different skill and gain the benefits for that skill.

**********************

@Kevin: With a bit more insight into the system, would you object if I made the following changes to my barbarian feats? Acute Vision isn't being as useful as I envisioned.

Currently:
L1: Acute Vision
L2: Sudden Charge

Would like to switch to:
L1: Sudden Charge (it's a level 1 feat)
L2: Acute Scent

**********************

@Sool: I honestly couldn't say as I haven't looked into crafting at all. That said, most of the skill feats I've looked at do seem to have minor enough effects.

Level 2:

+8 HP (total 24)

Cleric Feat: Cantrip Expansion (adding guidance and prestidigitation)

Skill Feat: Skill Training (Become Trained in a skill: Medicine)

+1 1st level spell per day

... I think that is it. If it looks like I missed something, let me know.

Rogue level 2

Rogue feat: Twin Feint

Skill feat: Assurance (Stealth)
- I read up some on it, and there's a lot of debate whether or not this feat is worth it. I'm going to give it a shot. I'm thinking it will be something I can do on a round's 3rd action to ensure a Hide check against lower DC foes. The only hitch is I'm not aware of any feats or abilities that are better options or that may make this strategy obsolete.

Skill increase: ...ugh. I think the various Untrained, Trained, Expert, etc. labels have an actual number that they translate to, and I only added the numbers together. I didn't know I should record which skills I was Trained or whatever in. I think I'll need to go back and figure that out. Unless anybody has a way to tell, I'm basically re-creating this PC and trying to make the same decisions I did the first time around.

@Sool I think thats about it. I can modify the adventures pace a little to give ye a few more days off if you want to invest in a crafting feat. I never run anything as PFS so not sure if thats possible in their 2e games allow crafting or not but for this one go nuts within the confines of the rules.

@Throkk, I have no issue with that.

@Morsun
"Proficiency is a system that measures a character’s aptitude at a specific task or quality, and it has five ranks: untrained, trained, expert, master, and legendary. Proficiency gives you a bonus that’s added when determining the following modifiers and statistics: AC, attack rolls, Perception, saving throws, skills, and the effectiveness of spells. If you’re untrained, your proficiency bonus is +0. If you’re trained, expert, master, or legendary, your proficiency bonus equals your level plus 2, 4, 6, or 8, respectively."
So at level 1 untrained would be just your stat modifier. Level 1 trained would be 1(for level)+2+stat modifier.

Awesome, thank you.

Now I notice that Acute Scent requires Acute Vision (or darkvision), so I'll leave it as is.

Early on the difference between trainned and untrained is significant for the level but not huge but as time goes by it gets bigger and bigger... but you can always use feats to become trainned in skills.

I had a friend who made a rogue and funnelled all of his feats towards becoming trained in all skills, lost out on being more specialised but he loves being a jack off all trades. I really like rogues on 2e, the crit isn't as powerful (but now multiplies on a crit!) but it's more skill focused. That with being trained in unarmed and unarmoured you can walk in without any gear in a disguise or rags, blather your way around an enemy base and if it all goes wrong try Jackie Channing your way out of there! Very appealing to me...

...similarly the wizards unarmoured AC going up makes them feel less frail, you're experienced and have been in tough spots. Less Raistlin and more Gandalf.

Your enthusiasm makes me excited to grow this Rogue. :)

My focuses, in order, are as follows:

Detect/Disarming/Placing traps
Stealth to enable Sneak Attacks
Traditional cat-burglar skills (climbing, etc.)
Dual-wielding (but I don't think there's going to be too much I can do to enhance that)
Other rogue skills based on Charisma

Its tough to learn new mechanics by text, though at least if I have to (and can at the time) check up a rule me taking half an hour to do so doesn't slow the game up.

Also don't be afraid to steal a trick from Hallod book, you're proficient in unarmed! You can keep the hand free and throw a punch if needed.

How long would people like for crafting and things before I have someone approach ye.

I'm easy about crafting. Throkk will find something to do!

I'll try and get a loot doc set up soonish, unless someone beats me to it. In the meantime....

Runestone containing the shadow rune -- Morsun
2 everburning torches
Heavy crossbow (9 bolts)
+1 kukri -- Morsun
leather armor
lesser healing potion -- Throkk
lesser juggernaut mutagen (2)

50 gp worth of alchemical reagents that can be used in Crafting alchemical items

21 gp, 37 sp

*****************************

Sool, the rest of us are used to just keeping the gold and gems in a party stash until we get a chance to sell, adding gold from whatever we sell to that stash, and then splitting the stash between the PCs evenly when makes sense.

We claim what we need from the items as makes sense for our characters, talking it over if more than one person wants the same thing. When we retire an item, sometimes we put it back on the loot list and sometimes we'll just sell it directly. We haven't really worried about it.

Does all that sound good?

Rogue level 2

Rogue feat: Twin Feint

Skill feat: Assurance (Stealth)
- I read up some on it, and there's a lot of debate whether or not this feat is worth it. I'm going to give it a shot. I'm thinking it will be something I can do on a round's 3rd action to ensure a Hide check against lower DC foes. The only hitch is I'm not aware of any feats or abilities that are better options or that may make this strategy obsolete.

Skill increase: ...ugh. I think the various Untrained, Trained, Expert, etc. labels have an actual number that they translate to, and I only added the numbers together. I didn't know I should record which skills I was Trained or whatever in. I think I'll need to go back and figure that out. Unless anybody has a way to tell, I'm basically re-creating this PC and trying to make the same decisions I did the first time around.

Skill increase: Stealth, trained to expert

I guess for Trained and above, you also add your level? That's the only way I could make the numbers make sense, but I couldn't find the specific ruling to verify that.

@ Morsun:
Untrained is +modifier
Trained 2+level+modifier
Expert 4+level+modifier
Master 6+level+modifier
Legendary 8+level+modifier
I keep a note of that under the 'Reminder' tag in Emri's profile, near the bottom, if you ever forget and need to look it up.

And for everyone:
Something's come up IRL. I won't be able to post consistently for a few weeks. I'll pop in when I can, but please bot or skip me liberally.

Thanks for understanding.

Thanks Emri. I still can't find in the rules where it says that, but I have to assume it's there since everyone else knows about it. :)

Good luck with whatever's going on.

My WFH-addled brain can't remember, so are all of the following people still alive?

Tamli Grent - second in command
Olf and Ulf Redfren - teamsters
Glunda Grapeleaf
Cooky

If we want to continue on, we should go talk to Tamli, I guess.

Thanks Emri. I still can't find in the rules where it says that, but I have to assume it's there since everyone else knows about it. :)

Good luck with whatever's going on.

Page 10 of the Core Rulebook. Under 'Playing the Game' near the end of that section. You can find it here on the archives. If you scroll down there's also a lot of other key terms and links, including 'Proficiency' again, which is what you want.

Thanks!

I see what my issue was. I was only looking in the Skills rules, forgetting that a proficiency bonus applies to many different things.

There's an NPC who'll be approaching ye before ye get a chance to leave town but I want to let ye sort gear and do a bit of crafting etc.

But all of those NPCs are still alive.

I'll try and get a loot doc set up soonish, unless someone beats me to it. In the meantime....

Loot list.

I've kept it relatively simple. If you claim something, please take it off of the loot list to avoid confusion. Let me know if anyone cannot edit. Thanks.

Loot list.

I've kept it relatively simple. If you claim something, please take it off of the loot list to avoid confusion. Let me know if anyone cannot edit. Thanks.

Thanks for doing this. I'm not able to edit the google doc. Can you make a note that Sool is claiming the 50g in alchemical reagents?

I'm going to jump time forward two days shortly once ye are finished talking with the Sheriff. He's getting a bit traumatised by Sool but they really are poor and can't offer some grand reward. If you guys up stakes and leave town immediately before finishing the adventure it wont have any impact on your own lives...

...I even have a more lucrative adventure lined up but I suspect a few of you will want to see things through in character, and probably all of you OOC. But walking away is a legitimate option.

Throkk could be persuaded to leave. But he's a bit fixated on getting vengeance for Bort. Now, there's the prospect of loot too.

Morsun Morsun wrote:

Loot list.

I've kept it relatively simple. If you claim something, please take it off of the loot list to avoid confusion. Let me know if anyone cannot edit. Thanks.

Thanks for doing this. I'm not able to edit the google doc. Can you make a note that Sool is claiming the 50g in alchemical reagents?

Sorry, it was late. I've set it to "Anyone with a link can edit." Please try again.

I never see the point of noting who claims something on the loot sheet when the item is also on the PC's character sheet. Since I don't see the alchemical reagents on Sool's sheet, I've left it on the loot sheet for now.

Throkk, can you use one of those mutagens?

Morsun can be persuaded either way.

@Morsun: I don't know tbh.

As for marking off, it can stem off confusion if similar items end up in loot.

e.g. "Is that the old potion of CLW or the new one?"

But it's not a huge deal either way imho, so long as everyone is on the same page.

So how long will it take us to be all fully healed?

After the two days we can say ye are fully healed

Excellent, cheers.

Too bad we're so low level. Would be a perfect time for a nice fireball.

Oh ye gods, yes.

More fire solves so many problems.

ha ha. :) Maybe I should have become a cleric of a nice fire deity instead.

I do love the deity directly affecting your spell lists. Clerics of Saranrae hurling out fireballs and Clerics of Nethys using magic missiles.