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Thank you! And my goodness, that last Amph post is heartbreaking. I think Daphne would have had an interesting dynamic with the new god of war, so I hope the first I've seen of you isn't also the last we see of you, Grumbaki! Take care!
Thank you, I appreciate it. And I’m really glad to see you here. It makes me feel much better walking away knowing that this will continue on. I’ll likely lurk and read what happens. I look forward to seeing what Daphne gets up to.
Welcome, KC! I've seen you around the forums over the years. Happy to see you here.
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I have a couple things I want to post to catch Kyronai up, but I first want clarification:
Are we certain that it was captain Argus that one of the gods ordered killed? The same captain who ferried us around very recently? I'm not sure why, when Zeus said ship captain, Aika automatically thought of Argus as opposed to the pirate captain we just defeated. I just want to make sure no wires are crossed again.
Well, Zagreus referred to the person as your captain friend originally so it probably wouldn't be Glaucetas.
Happy to be here!
Daphne is almost completed, by the way, aside from me needing to fix her archetype feats to account for Free Archetype, calculate encumbrance, add flavor for her items, and maybe tidy her sheet a little more. The implements for her thaumaturgy I currently have in mind are her sling (though the flavor will be focused on the river stones she loads into it) and, with the DM's permission, her (small) beehive, which I'm planning to have strapped to her back. Obviously, you can't do that with bees in the real world (at least, not for long), but she's a magical bee-person, so I'm hoping it's alright to play with the realism there a bit.
Also, speaking of which, I have a couple things to check in on:
2. The Brooch of Inspiration is an Uncommon item, so likewise, I do need to get permission. It basically gives me a bonus to Lore checks to Recall Knowledge and gives me a reroll ability for those checks.
3. Can I use Alcohol Lore in place of Craft for making drinks, or do I need Crafting (and does my bonus from the Seasoned feat, meant to benefit Crafting checks to cook and brew potions*, apply)? If I need Crafting, I can just scrap Intimidation for it. :)
*Unlikely to come up unless I ever take Alchemical Crafting, but it could happen.
Maybe the bees are semi intelligent, like dogs?
The way I see it, she just has a special bond with them. Traditions of "telling the bees" about major shifts in a family structure (a death, a birth, a marriage) go back centuries, and that's sort of the theme I'm going for here--these bees are tied to her and her household, and being a part of her esoterica, they do not harm her, nor do they react to ordinary jostling or surprise movement. Perhaps the same magic suffusing them protects them from such dangers.
Having a traveling bee-pack will be fine. There are far stranger things in ancient Greece. As far as Beastkin goes, you would have some connection to Artemis as that is in her wheelhouse but I'm good with it. Same for the other 2. Alcohol lore for making drinks sounds like it fits. The brooch seems ok as well.
The bee-nymph thing is actually inspired by mythological figures tied to Apollo, but I'm fine being tied to Artemis, she's a lot cooler. ;P
Sounds good otherwise!
It's Spring Break next week, and we're getting ready for an out of town trip starting on Friday. So of course, this week is super busy. I don't expect to disappear between now and the end of my trip, but my posting may be delayed a bit.
Just a quick note to say that I'm still on vacation, and we're leaving for the final leg of our trip tomorrow. Things got kind of busy.
I'm open to any PF2 suggestions to how I can make a witch decent with a bow.
Thank you for reminding me! With the whole switch over and everything in and out of the game I completely forgot you were vacationing. We can pause here until you get back!
As for helping with PF2, I’m a noob (who honestly has had little to no interest in the system up until this point), so I really can’t help atm, but I’ll take a look and see what I can come up with to help you if I get a chance
That shouldn't be too hard! The Archer archetype basically has you covered for being decent at using a bow--it makes you as good with bows as you are with simple weapons. You can swap to eldritch archer later, potentially, if you want some of those arcane archer vibes. We're using the Free Archetype rule (a bonus feat just for archetypes every even level), so you have a lot of leeway to make it work.
You'll never be as good at your bow as a 'real' martial would be (you'll pretty much always be 2 points behind Daphne to hit enemies), but you'll be a decent backup damage source in a pinch. Especially with spells like Organsight and True Strike that can boost your attacks. Luckily, spellcasting doesn't always require a hand free anymore--only for spells with spell components.
I should note that PF2 takes care to make sure simple is worse than martial, and martial is worse than advanced. Daphne wields a sling, and she's honestly a bit worse off for it, but luckily thaumaturge in particular offers a lot of tools to make simple weapons a bit more viable. A bow is an excellent weapon.
The abilities you'll need are pretty much unchanged. As a human with the half-elf heritage, you may want to consider grabbing a couple voluntary flaws so you can keep your Dex and Con at good numbers, but that's flexible. Because we all get two sets of ability boosts granting +2s to four ability scores of our choice (one at 5th, one at 10th), you'll be able to spread things out a lot more than you could in PF1, but the highest single score any of us can have right now is a 20.
Other than that, in terms of more general advice... so, there are some minor "unwritten rules" I've noticed in PF2 for optimization. They aren't as critical as PF1's many unwritten rules, but they do matter.
Great "third actions" include Demoralize or Feint (this is why Charisma isn't a dump stat in PF2--Demoralize in particular is fantastic as an opener to give the enemy a penalty to AC and saves), setting up an Aid reaction (just generally really good, especially at our level), moving to set up a flank, Raising a Shield, or using various feat-given actions like the rogue's Nimble Dodge.
Second, for magic items, you'll generally want the available fundamental runes on your main weapon and armor, if any, for your level. At our level, that meant a +1 potency striking sling and +1 potency armor for me. The treasure table is here, by the way--at our level, we should have one ninth-level item, two eighth-level items, one seventh-level item, two sixth-level items, and 125 gp in spare spending cash for other stuff. You'll also want to pick up at least a couple skill boost items, which you can find by looking at the skill on the AONPRD. It'll have a list of items that give bonuses to that skill.
When picking your Background, narrow your search to which Backgrounds offer at least one of two abilities you're focusing on. It helps with the choice paralysis. With skill feats, similarly, focus on the feats for skills you're invested in.
Ask the GM about anything Uncommon or Rare. Usually, Rare/Uncommon things are so because they are potentially disruptive, either in terms of lore ("you're an exiled princess!") or in terms of tone (almost all mind control spells are Uncommon).
Dazzled is really, really nasty now.
Not everything scales super well. Be wary of feats and items that have fixed damage values, fixed DCs, or that increase proficiency in something without any "it increases again when you hit a higher level" clause. Canny Acumen is great, assuming you don't already have a good proficiency in that save/Perception. Weapon Proficiency I would skip.
Pathbuilder is a very handy resource. Sucks for buying gear, though. Honestly, I'd use it to get the baseline stats and then buy gear manually. AONPRD is absolutely invaluable for actually sorting through the gear you might want.
Yea I will be more than happy to help. I have to convert some of the custom stuff anyhow.
Thanks Daphne for the advice posts and Aikaterine for the PMs!
I guess I should make clear that I'm not completely unfamiliar with PF2. I am in one PbP campaign, where I play a dwarven rogue. But it's slow moving and I haven't explored any of the rules beyond what I need for that PC (and because the GM posts very infrequently, I often forget rules and have to re-look them up as they become relevant).
DM, I think the big custom things that I'll need converted for Kyronai are the benefits of having Athena as a patron, the twilight chainshirt, and the Quiver of the Virgin Goddess. I think I saw mention on AoN somewhere about having an inanimate object as a familiar, so the bow could be something similar? I'm happy to rework things as needed. I'm more interested in keeping this PC's feel the same rather than the specific mechanics.
(Although, it will be harder for Kyronai to fly as frequently, alas.)
I guess of all of those, if you can tell me what spellcasting tradition Athena grants (arcane? occultism?) that will help with the new build.
I'm still trying to catch up in the Gameplay thread. It's a priority for me.
Well, the twilight chainshirt wouldn't do anything in PF2 since there is no spellchance failure. I could just have it scale with your armor proficiencies.
I have already reworked the quiver which I will post shortly(it was actually pretty easy).
You can have an inanimate object as a familiar, Baba Yaga grants it in Golarion so Athena granting it is fine.
Patron: Athena
Athena teaches you how to transfer magic into objects in a way few can. A witch with Athena as a patron can choose an inanimate object as a familiar. If they do, they can still gain master abilities and some familiar abilities that don't require movement. The object familiar has no speeds and must select a speed ability before it can move, coming to life in a way appropriate to the chosen speed and using the statistics of a normal familiar for that day.
Spell List: Arcane
Patron Skill: Arcana
Hex Cantrip: Stoke the Heart
Granted Spell: Magic Weapon(or Mage Armor)
And I think Daphne's sheet is officially complete! I ended up going with Marshal for her second archetype once Medic ran its course--I was very tempted by Unexpected Marksman and Improvised Fighter, though, so I may hop to one of those next. The "grade school teacher getting everyone ready for the fight" energy was just too strong with Marshal.
Does she have a giant paddle to thomp people with?
"W-Well, gosh, I don't think I think that's what anyone needs, personally."
Kyronai is almost completed. I was using a version of Pathbuilder I downloaded to a tablet on the plane, but it became apparent after a while that it was an older version that did not have more recent options on it. So I'd like to recreate this PC on the more recent version, but I won't be doing it from scratch this time.
Yeah, Pathbuilder also requires you to pay to add Free Archetype, so remember you'll have to add it separately--which can lead to a bit of finagling due to the "take two extra dedication feats before you can take a different archetype" rule, if you're trying to add the extra feats after.
By the way, GM, would you consider maybe starting a Discord server? It can be helpful to have an easily-accessed hub, if people already have Discord/don't mind downloading it. It also makes DMs a lot easier--Paizo's leave a lot to be desired.
I am not opposed to Discord, especially playing a rendition of Diskord lol. I am on it if the GM wants to make a server.
Also, if you guys see any error with my character sheet (other than the fact I haven't finished spells), feel free to let me know it, as Aikaterine should be updated now.
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Hello everyone! Thank you so much for letting me join you! I've spent the past couple of days catching up on some of the story (so far back a year or so) and am super excited to join in.
Welcome! As a fellow newbie, it's great to have you! Bastya seems like a delight. :)
Welcome, Bástya!
Greetings!
Thanks everyone! Yeah I really loved writing her backstory. Also in terms of the discord question I definitely am not opposed!
While wearing this quiver, you gain eldritch shot as an ability. Also any arrow drawn and fired from this quiver deals 1 additional point of force damage.
Eldritch Shot:
3 action Requirements You are wielding a bow; Effect:
You cast a spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll. The effects of the spell do not occur immediately but are imbued into the bow you are wielding. Make a strike with that bow. Your spell flies with the ammunition, using your attack roll result to determine the effects of both the strike and the spell. This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, but you don't apply the penalty until you've completed both attacks.
I've joined the Discord, and I'll try to keep up, but I haven't had a great experience with Discord for campaigns in the past. I'm hoping that the primary discussion can still remain on this board.
Quiver of the Virgin Goddess ** spoiler omitted **
Does this mean that the quiver has lost the ability to use wand charges along with the arrows? Not complaining, just want clarification.
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I forgot it could do that. We'll keep the inclusion of wand use.
Guidance welcome:
PF1 Kyronai is a Bonded Witch archetype, which replaces a living, animate familiar with a wizard's bonded item. And the flavor that a witch communes with the familiar to know and prepare spells is just applied to the bonded item.
However, it doesn't seem like a bonded item in PF2 is as powerful as it was in PF1, so it seems like I should create a familiar, and then pick abilities and such that I could conceivably apply to an inanimate familiar.
Or... should I just have a regular magic bow, and come up with an in-game reason that Kyronai gains a traditional PF2 familiar? It seems like this is the best solution, but other opinions are welcome.
and come up with an in-game reason that Kyronai gains a traditional PF2 familiar?
...which wouldn't even be that hard to do. It would be an owl from Athena if a bonded bow doesn't work.
Right, I thought we came up with a solution earlier with the custom patron. But you can do a regular magical bow and familiar if you want to.
Patron: Athena
Athena teaches you how to transfer magic into objects in a way few can. A witch with Athena as a patron can choose an inanimate object as a familiar. If they do, they can still gain master abilities and some familiar abilities that don't require movement. The object familiar has no speeds and must select a speed ability before it can move, coming to life in a way appropriate to the chosen speed and using the statistics of a normal familiar for that day.
Spell List: Arcane
Patron Skill: Arcana
Hex Cantrip: Stoke the Heart
Granted Spell: Magic Weapon(or Mage Armor)
Shoot, you know... I read that, and it registered, but it's been such a busy few days that I completely forgot. Sorry about that. I'll stick with the bow as per having Athena as a patron.
No worries.
Glad we're moving forward; sorry if I was the holdup.
The only thing left is magic items and gear. I'm assuming that I just buy the gear I want until I reach wealth by level for level 9. I might go without the twilight chain shirt since I have mage armor.
What should I value the quiver at?
There's actually specific guidance for working out the items you start with. I think we're going to be tenth level, and for tenth level, we should have roughly:
One 9th level item
Two 8th level items
One 7th level item
Two 6th level items
And 350 gp left over for general spending money.
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Since the quiver is custom, it won't count against your wealth by level.
Okay, so I'm in sort of a perfect storm of work being busy, family being busy, and just general business. Here is what I have so far for Kyronai 2E. Obviously, I need to switch out the patron on this sheet for Athena, and I still need to finish his gear, but I'm tired of looking at this, so I'm throwing it out there for comment. What am I missing?
As for his gear, here's what I have so far:
9th: 1 - Wand of Manifold Missiles (3rd level)
8th: 2 - +1 Striking Corrosive Longbow
7th: 1 - Bag of holding (II) or Sleeves of Storage
6th: 2
350 gp
Suggestions for his remaining 8th level item and his two 6th level items are welcomed. Because as I said, I'm sick of looking at this.
My advice is to look for some skill items for skills he's prioritizing, but I'm on my phone right now, so it's not easy to look deeper than that.
If you open up a skill on the AONPRD, it'll offer lists of items that give a bonus to the skill.
Oh, also, +1, Striking, Corrosive and Longbow are each treated as separate items for this process, so my advice is to pay in gp for everything but the Corrosive rune.
I believe wands are different too. They fire once a day without issues, but you can overload them to fire more, but they risk being destroyed. It would probably be good to get a few or a staff if you want to spellsling with an item
Is it alright if I sit in gameplay for ease of access?
Was that an autocorrect of "dot" or "post"?
Sure thing.
Was that an autocorrect of "dot" or "post"?
Yep, dot
Yeah, you can make a post in Gameplay, immediately delete the post, and you'll still be in the campaign. The campaign will show up on your campaign page.
Kyronai moves to a point in the room farthest from the door. He casts mage armor.
I'll try and get Kyronai finalized ASAP and let you know what level Kyronai cast that spell at. Mage armor isn't currently on the sheet I linked above, but he gets it from his patron.
Sorry for holding things up. It's hard to know what to do when playing with (what feels like) an incomplete character sheet. I'm trying to get it finished this weekend, but every time I look at an item, I research a bit further and realize the rules work differently than I thought. Wand are way different now, for example.
I forgot that I bought Kyronai a +1 chain shirt. Was there any point to him casting mage armor? I'm not asking for a retcon, but I may ask to switch it out for another spell if it's useless with armor.
No worries on my end! This is the first combat of the new system and new party composition, it makes sense things are gonna stall a bit while we find our footing. And picking high-level gear is disorienting in any system that has gear progression as a core mechanic. XD