Heya Galahad! Thanks for taking this campaign over for us! And thank you Teryll for doing the leg work to get us a new DM. When Signy is a queen she will shower you with favors. :p
@ Galahad: Nope and nope.
Dotting in.
I've played the first couple of books with friends before my job schedule caused me to have to drop.
This was close to 8-10 years ago, so I only recall bits and pieces.
I have not played the computer game version at all.
Thank you for taking over the game. I have not played Kingmaker beyond two pbps that ended before or shortly after the first fight. Haven't played the game either
I've been in a couple of PBP versions, none went very far. I don't think I've yet leveled up in a Kingmaker game. lol Haven't played the computer game either.
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I will be doing the new revised Kingmaker. It has a lot more story stuff and encounters.
As for characters, As I said, you get 25pts for stats and we will be using the Feat Tax rules with the following exceptions: completely ignore appendix II. Also, notice there is no longer an exotic weapon group. Instead any character that has a special class feature or racial feature that gives them proficiency in what was normally an exotic weapon instead gains Weapon Focus with that weapon.
Pyros- I have the updated version of the Aldori Defender archetype with its erratas. Also what does the "VMC Magus" mean? How married are you to the Steelbound archetype? I usually don't allow more than one archetype and also it isn't normally allowed with Aldori Defender as they both replace Weapon Training I with another ability.
Halden- Everything looks good, check out Appendix III in the above document for your altered feat choices. Also, do you plan on getting an animal companion or Hunter's Bond? Notice that Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot have been reversed as pre-reqs.
Teryll- Same point about Point Blank Shot as I mentioned to Halden, otherwise looks good (I'm not as familiar with Inquisitors).
Signy- It looks like all you need to do is adjust your stats to the new point buy.
Just waiting on the other two players
@Galahad: I'm not sure everyone has come around to recognizing Signy's obvious suitability for the role yet. Whispers have it they think she's maybe a little daft. :)
A quick question about the Elephant in the Room rules: Weapon Finesse is gone, but I don't see a feat that allows Dex to damage. Does Fencing Grace or an analogous feat exist?
I was planning on dipping a level in Inspired Blade Swashbuckler at 2nd level and I'm wondering if I'd still want to do that.
Galahad, I didn't think we planned that far ahead in or out of character.
My build is pretty much standard archery, the brawler dip I'm planning is to give me a bit more melee viability if I can't use the bow.
I'll adjust the sheet and feat in the next day or so.
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@Galahad: I'm not sure everyone has come around to recognizing Signy's obvious suitability for the role yet. Whispers have it they think she's maybe a little daft. :)
A quick question about the Elephant in the Room rules: Weapon Finesse is gone, but I don't see a feat that allows Dex to damage. Does Fencing Grace or an analogous feat exist?
I was planning on dipping a level in Inspired Blade Swashbuckler at 2nd level and I'm wondering if I'd still want to do that.
Weapon Finesse is no longer a feat, so any other feat that has it as a pre-req, is available without it. The feat for adding Dex to damage is Slashing Grace (or also Fencing Grace for a rapier) and no longer requires Weapon Finesse as a pre-req. The other ways to get Dex to damage are mostly class abilities.
First question, has anyone played this AP before? Also, has anyone bought the new computer game by Owlcat Games that is based on this AP?
Hey there.
I've never gotten beyond a single encounter in this AP so far, so it's pretty much a no on having played it. I'm definitely considering the game when it comes out for PS4.
One other thing, have you guys decided who would be the leader of the new barony when founded?
We never got that far. And the most recent iteration's GM was placing an emphasis on the fey rather than the kingdom so it didn't really come up
They're both listed on my sheet:
Feats
*Skill focus (Survival), Self sufficient
I figure out in the wilderness, Survival might be the difference between life and death at low levels, same with high heal skill and the ability to make concoctions since potions/healing might be scarce at times.
Ah, yeah I see what you mean. So I just have to bump a stat with 25 pt buy instead of 20. Everything else good?
Galahad: Sheet is updated. Any questions or issues, let me know.
Also, for the sake of not repeating too many posts we should probably go forward as though as if we players have already met /introduced ourselves before?
Perhaps during the applications to be considered for the job in the first place?
I agree with not redoing introductions to each other. That would be tedious. Will update my sheet when I get the chance to look through this new feat thing.
I will be doing the new revised Kingmaker. It has a lot more story stuff and encounters.
As for characters, As I said, you get 25pts for stats and we will be using the Feat Tax rules with the following exceptions: completely ignore appendix II. Also, notice there is no longer an exotic weapon group. Instead any character that has a special class feature or racial feature that gives them proficiency in what was normally an exotic weapon instead gains Weapon Focus with that weapon.
Pyros- I have the updated version of the Aldori Defender archetype with its erratas. Also what does the "VMC Magus" mean? How married are you to the Steelbound archetype? I usually don't allow more than one archetype and also it isn't normally allowed with Aldori Defender as they both replace Weapon Training I with another ability.
VMC is Variant Multi-Classing from Pathfinder Unchained. Specifically, the choosing Magus as my secondary class.
As for the archetypes, they should stack. I’m not sure what errata you’re referring to, my understanding is that Aldori Defender replaces Armor Training and three Fighter bonus feats (those at 6th, 8th, and 10th), while Steelbound Fighter replaces the 1st Level Fighter bonus feat and Weapon Training.
The concept is an Aldori duelist who we blade is inhabited by a celestial servant of his patron deity Milano, which would slowly grow in power over time. VMC Magus (Which grants access to an Arcane Pool to enhance the blade with), Steelbound (Which will make the blade intelligent and give it some other abilities as the game progresses), and the Possessed Hand feat I took at 1st all play into that, so its not *unimportant* to the build, but it isn’t as vital as the Aldori archetype, obviously. I mean, I could rework the concept into a more standard duelist, but I really like the idea of having a sort of “angel on his shoulder”, only it’s an enchanted sword. So I’d rather not lose it.
As far as who would rule, Pyros is pretty fixated on establishing a safe haven where the Aldori can operate as they once did, before Choral the Conqueror came. Preferably one that can be used as a springboard to free Rostland one day. So he has some definite ideas about how to structure the government, and he’s arrogant enough to think he could run the show. But I imagine a few other party members might have something to say about that. Signy, he’s single, so you could be Queen. :) But he could stand to see someone else rule, as long as they’re down for letting the Aldori play a major role. Probably.
(Honestly it’s kind of tough playing someone as arrogant as he is. I feel bad being a jerk to the other party members. But that Condescending drawback has to come from somewhere.)
I have looked at the feat tax rules and I have one question. Since we are not using the appendix II rules, are Power Attack, Deadly Aim, and Combat Expertise still available as feats or can we just not use those options?
Also, I plan to take an animal companion for my hunter's bond. Probably a horse, but that hasn't been decided for sure.
Hal,
Those three feats are now available to anyone meeting the general requirements. (I think +1 BAB for those. )
For example, as a +1 BAB class you can take the -1 to a bow attack and use deadly aim for extra damage, then next round drop the bow and power attack with your sword without needing to have taken any feats to do so.
Edit to add: Appendix 6 has the basic breakdown.
Whoa there Pyros, maybe you should buy Signy a drink or something first! And don't you mean Signy's single so maybe Pyros could be King? :p
Actually I don't care terribly about who's doing what. I've just been pushing Signy's claim to ruler for fun. I'd certainly do it if everyone would be satisfied with that arrangement. Though there's a certain amount of theological dissonance in the notion of a Caydenite ruler I'd have to manage.
I've been thinking about the character changes I'll be making and I'd like to ask everyone here what they think about a couple of possible directions Signy could take. I could invest the extra ability score points in strength and have Signy be Dex attack/strength damage. With a rapier she needs no feats to do this and can even power attack, though it's one-handed power attack. This way saves feats but draws points away from her primary Dex/Cha scores.
One the other hand i could invest the extra points in Dex and dip Swash at 2nd level or just take Fencing Grace as her 3rd level feat. I figure the resulting damage will be about the same since she'll be relying a lot on static damage from performances and buffs for most of it.
I think the real difference between the two will be in how she works as a caster. Investing in strength would ultimately slow down her Cha increases, resulting in lower spell DCs. Investing in Dex now means more can go to Cha later, raising DCs.
So in a way the question is this: would you all rather have a more powerful caster who can effectively use Enchantments offensively, or a utility and support caster who avoids spells requiring opposing saves more?
Any thoughts from anyone?
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Ah, Pyros, I was confusing Aldori Defender with Aldori Swordlord archetype (they are practically the same). In that case, you are good to go. Also, just so you know, since the Steelbound ability is emulating Weapon Training (like the Weapon Master ability does) it will work with Gloves of Dueling and also counts as a pre-req for the Advanced Weapon Training feat (although it will only apply to your Steelbound weapon). The errata I was referring to was the Aldori Swordlord archetype, so never mind. Btw, the Possessed Hand feat is neat, but you could start with Slashing Grace and be adding Dex to damage....
To all: I agree with the introductions part, we will assume you did those while waiting for the show to begin. Also, I was not aware of the VMC rules being used, but I'm OK with it.
I see what mistake I made about Appendix II, I was mostly referring to the change in defensive combat rules (we will be using the normal rules for that). The feats; Power Attack, Combat Expertise, & Deadly Aim are still no longer feats, but combat options for anyone that had a BAB of +1 or greater.
Signy, my personal opinion (for whatever it's worth) would be to buff Dex and Cha.
There's a lot of synergy in a bard with one level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler.
With your stats as they are now, at level two you'll get weapon focus rapier, parry and riposte, and 4 panache per day. One feat at level three gets you Dex to damage (starting at + 3) and will go up faster than if you split stats to use Str for damage.(Dex belt has more "bang for the buck" than a Str belt in that build.)
Also, nothing I saw in the feat tax required 13 Str to power attack; only + 1 BAB so you can still use it for the extra damage. Throw the arcane strike feat in there, and that's another + 1 to + 5 to stack on for the cost of a swift action.
(GM feel free to correct if you still have that minimum 13 Str rule in place.)
On top of that if you buff your Cha, your DC's go up and you get more spells per day. So you can be the charm spell/ party buff/ debuff monster that stabs things in a fashionable way.
:)
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Everything Teryll just said is accurate. I would also suggest just focusing on Dex and not worrying about Str if you plan on dipping Inspired Blade. I would also agree with you that taking Dex now allows you to focus more on Cha. Trust me, Hideous Laughter and Hold Person are powerful spells in this AP as the vast majority of opponents are humanoid (and it works on Trolls). Speaking of which, I would suggest swapping Hideous Laughter for Grease as the former is far more effective, just saying...
Whoa there Pyros, maybe you should buy Signy a drink or something first! And don't you mean Signy's single so maybe Pyros could be King? :p
Actually I don't care terribly about who's doing what. I've just been pushing Signy's claim to ruler for fun. I'd certainly do it if everyone would be satisfied with that arrangement. Though there's a certain amount of theological dissonance in the notion of a Caydenite ruler I'd have to manage.
I've been thinking about the character changes I'll be making and I'd like to ask everyone here what they think about a couple of possible directions Signy could take. I could invest the extra ability score points in strength and have Signy be Dex attack/strength damage. With a rapier she needs no feats to do this and can even power attack, though it's one-handed power attack. This way saves feats but draws points away from her primary Dex/Cha scores.
One the other hand i could invest the extra points in Dex and dip Swash at 2nd level or just take Fencing Grace as her 3rd level feat. I figure the resulting damage will be about the same since she'll be relying a lot on static damage from performances and buffs for most of it.
I think the real difference between the two will be in how she works as a caster. Investing in strength would ultimately slow down her Cha increases, resulting in lower spell DCs. Investing in Dex now means more can go to Cha later, raising DCs.
So in a way the question is this: would you all rather have a more powerful caster who can effectively use Enchantments offensively, or a utility and support caster who avoids spells requiring opposing saves more?
Any thoughts from anyone?
Well, Signy does have a higher Charisma. Pyros could get behind being consort. Less time running the ship of state means more time to work on his swordplay. lol
I would go Dex for Signy. With the Feat Tax system in play, I don't think you need 13 STR for Power Attack any more, so you can go Dex for Attack and Damage (And AC, Initiative, Reflex...) and still Power Attack as well. It just makes more sense as far as an efficient allocation of points goes.
I sent Kern a pm.
This was a pretty quick turn around, so he might have missed it.
Thanks for the input! Alright, I'll go the straight Dex route with the Swashbuckler dip. That was my original plan anyway. I hadn't considered Power Attack no longer having the 13 Str requirement, that's good to know.
Also, while a Dex Attack / Str Damage build seems to be very workable for a full BAB class like Daring Champion Cavalier, it might not be reliable to depend on Power Attack at higher levels with less than full BAB. I could fix it with a feat if needed, but then I'd have wasted those points put into Strength.
I switched out Grease for Hideous Laughter. I'm not going to ignore a DM hint!
Pyros: Just remember Consort is an earned position. :)
Sorry all, just saw the notices (Honestly, didn't think anyone would pick up a dropped kingmaker game). I'm here, just catching up on the posts.
I have edited my starting equipment a bit. With weapon finesse being free, it makes more sense for me to use a rapier than a longsword.
While we are on the subject of future kingdom roles, Halden has no interest in being king. He will likely end up as marshal or spymaster.
Caught up, and I've updated Kern for 25pt Buy (he's unaffected by Feat Tax changes).
I have played the PC game (to near the end), and have GM'd the campaign in tabletop. I believe I can keep my internal knowledge/biases out of the character, but if it is an issue, please let me know.
As far as role, I haven't really given it thought. I wouldn't be surprised if he defaults out to Magister, but it's way to early to tell. My only current plans for the future are to pick up Craft Construct as early as possible and make a friend :) (Homunculous, in this case).
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Caught up, and I've updated Kern for 25pt Buy (he's unaffected by Feat Tax changes).
I have played the PC game (to near the end), and have GM'd the campaign in tabletop. I believe I can keep my internal knowledge/biases out of the character, but if it is an issue, please let me know.
That's fine. I am basing this version on the PC game because it added so much to the story.
Sounds like the pc game is worth picking up?
In my opinion, yes. A word of warning...the programmers' ideas of difficulty seem pretty harsh; you'll want to explore the various difficulty options.
Good to know.
Thanks
I figured things would evolve organically, so haven't given much thought to the role ahead of time. That being said, Marshal is definitely a possibility.
I'm in the same boat as Faerin, it's been so long that I didn't even think of kingdom roles. Teryll isn't the king type, but I figure it will work itself out he'll find a role that fits.
I’d think Teryll of Faelin would have the short track for High Priest, since they’re our divine caster types. Since we’ve got a mix across the Law-Chaos spectrum, Faelin (being Neutral on that axis) makes more sense. But that’s just me.
Not going to clog the gameplay thread with it, but Kern has mentally pigeonholed the 4 other notable adventurer's as follows:
Amiri: No self-control
Tartuccio: Arrogant ass
Jaethal: Creepy, but pragmatic
Harrim: Depressed, or at least depressing.
Jaethal is the only one of the set he could envision getting along with.
Ending up high priest would be interesting since the national recognized religion would be The Green Faith. Might make for better relations with the Fey though
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As for kingdom roles, there will be NPCs that you can fill some postions with.
Here is the list of the council positions:
Regent-deals with the populace, based on the Community stat. Charisma is the stat for the Regent.
Councilor-also deals with the populace, but more on policy issues than resolving disputes. Based on the Loyalty stat. Wisdom is the stat for the Councilor.
General-self explanatory. Based on the Military stat. Strength is the stat for the General.
High Priest-Handles all matters divine. Based on the Divine stat. Wisdom is the stat for the High Priest.
Treasurer-handles trade and economy. Based on the Economy stat. Intelligence is the stat for the Treasurer.
Warden-Opens after Military stat qualifies for rank IV. Handles internal security. Based on the Stability stat. Constitution is the stat for the Warden.
Diplomat-Opens after Community stat qualifies for rank IV. Handles affairs of state and can also do trade deals. Based on the Relations stat. Charisma is the stat for the Diplomat.
Magister-Opens after Divine stat qualifies for rank IV. Handles all things arcane. Based on the Arcane stat. Intelligence is the stat for the Magister.
Curator-Opens after Loyalty stat qualifies for rank IV. Handles cultural affairs and the Arts. Based on the Culture stat. Charisma is the stat for the Curator.
Minister-Opens after Relations stat qualifies for rank IV (this is the only tertiary position). Called the "Minister" to hide his true position as spymaster. Based on the Espionage stat. Dexterity is the stat for the Minister.
Minister is the only think Dexterity based, huh? That’s...unfortunate. General is a role Pyros might take interest in, but he has a 10 Strength. Kinda hard to see an Aldori duelist as a spymaster. But maybe that’s a good thing; no one would suspect him. lol I do have decent INT, CHA, and CON, but DEX is my big stat. So maybe...Treasurer? Warden? Hmm.
So between High Priest and Councilor, High Priest definitely fits better