Tiger Stance Monk

I've read some guides, but would like to see how people on the forums would build there optimized Tiger Stance Monk. Could people share how you should generally play a Tiger Stance Monk and which feats are good to select. Thank you!

Tiger Stance would not be much different from standard Monk would be, get Ki strike and Winding Flow, one more focus spell to increase the pool by one and get meditative focus at 12 and there, damaging Tiger Monk, get Feather Step in the general feats because it's something that improve the step action.

Now for something more gimmicky I would probably combine a reach weapon with the Tiger Stance, use Tiger Slash to shove the creature and then Flurry of Blows to attack with the reach weapon. Far from optimal however.

We look to have very similar tastes in characters, lol. Tiger Monk is my back up character for my next campaign. Here's what I've thought of:

Get a shield. You are a defensive powerhouse with shield in hand and you have extreme action efficiency to raise it nearly every round. As a Tiger Monk, in particular, you can get into the middle of enemy formations with your 10 foot step and just live there. I like the Spellguard Shield at level 6; might as well never fail saves as well.

Save importance is Will, Fort, Ref. Healers in your party can deal with HP loss from Reflex save failures. Further, you're not going to be clumped up with the rest of your party since you're going to be forward utilizing Stand Still and engaging the enemy. With Ref as your primary stat, you will rarely fail the few ref effects that disable you anyway. Will saves disable you and Fort effects are some of the nastiest single target spells.

Wanting both Tiger Stance and Ki Strike, you obviously greatly benefit from Natural Ambition for the extra class feat. Those monk feats are extremely prized, so you definitely want to go for adopted ancestry to get Natural Ambition if you don't have access to it from your ancestry choice.

I've been playing a Tiger Style monk for a while now, my party is at 10th level in Age of Ashes Book 3.

Here are some of my options:

General Feat:

Feather Step. Difficult terrain will not be a problem for you while it will be for enemies.
Toughness: Pretty simple, more HP more staying power. My party needs the extra HP when our GM is rolling crits every round. It is not a must have, though.

Class stuff: Tiger Stance.

Natural Ambition: Ki Strike (I picked it a little later because my character didn't fit with the whole wisdom, self-control and ki aspect). It's pretty useful for extra damage (my flurry of blows is 2d8+6+1d6COlD+2d6 Ki Strike).
Powerful Fist: Always useful. Really hard to work on stronger enemies though (High fort saves are very common).
Stand Still: Your only reaction, it's great to use with Trip (using Athletics with Assurance can work wonders on weaker enemies).
Tiger Slash: Despite what guides say, it's a useful ability to have against high AC enemies and the shove effect seems to be optional given the wording( " and you CAN push the target 5 feet away as if you had successfully Shoved them")
Wall Run: I thought it would be a gimmick, but it has allowed me some great mobility in combat to flank enemies and avoid AoO's. It's useful outside of combat as well since you can forego climbing and just run up and save time and effort. One thing: Wild Winds initiate is a good option here as well, my character didn't have Ki Spells so I didn't take it but it was my first option (mechanically speaking).
Winding Flow: This is good. Way better than it seems. It the Tiger Style's 10ft step you can enter the space of creatures with Reach without triggering sneak AoO's and it's effectively a +1)enhancement to your already high movement speed (I'm currently sitting, with Elven Cloak and Boots combo, on 45ft + 10ft from STEP).

Some considerations about my Monk:
Early Stats: 16 STR 18 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 10 WIS -8 CHAR (Extra flaw for extra strength due to character reasons).

I've been pretty satisfied with my AC since the beginning even though my character doesn't use a shield because it's simply not cool for Monks. Damage wise it's been pretty solid as well, specially because Flurry of Blows, two hits for one action is neat even with the penalties. My mobility as well as never been an issue, even early on, you can't comprehend how important mobility is when you need to expend one extra action to reach an enemy or to flank.

One thing that might be helpful for PF2e in general, as soon as you come to terms with one action to attack per round is the norm, you'll find yourself not worrying to much about actions to draw stuff or to enter a stance. If your round consisted of a Flurry of Blows, movement and another miscellaneous activity (drawing items, feint if you have the CHAR, Intimidate if that's your thing or raising a shield if you're a lame monk) then it's perfectly fine. Don't fret about not using all of your actions to attack.

Regardless of any mechanical benefit, my main suggestion is: Create a character that you find interesting and that inspire you to keep playing it and writing about it. This is PF2e, your choices will be just choices, they're a way of playing the game, not a quiz on if you're picking a trap feat or the useful one.

I'm playing a human Tiger Monk at the moment who's currently lvl 5 and I play her as a striker...and am LOVING it. I normally move in Flurry and then move out but sometimes I choose to end up next to the enemy to provide flanking for an ally and so I carry a shield which allows me to use raise shield as my third action and get a +2 to my AC. Fluff-wise, I play it that the shield has a mandala painted on it with helps her with meditation or her contemplation of the flow of ki in all living things (aka RP-reasons for Medicine-focused feats - see below)

Here's what I've selected so far:
lvl 1 - took Tiger Stance and then via Natural Ambition took Ki Rush to up my mobility (I use it quite a bit which surprised me TBH and remember it also gives you Concealment until the start of your next turn)
lvl 2 - took Stunning Fist but retrained it to Student of Perfection Dedication because incapacitation wasn't working out for me. YMMV though with SF. SoP gives you Ki Strike and skill boost to your choice of Acrobatics or Athletics, and to Warfare Lore
lvl 4 - took Wholeness of Body for the extra healing but also to be able to counter poisons and disease during combat

As for non-monk feats, I went the Medicine route and took Battle Medicine, Godless Healing, and Assurance (Medicine) so I can heal myself and others in and out of combat. And since we're light on magical healing in my party, this has saved us a number of times.

If you want to be prepped for all terrain, I suggest getting Feather Step as a feat, then taking as monk feats Water Step (6), Wall Run (8), and Wind Jump (10). Although I suggest delaying Wall Run at 8 to take Wild Winds Stance so you have a nice ranged attack that you can flurry with.

Also suggest getting to Master in Acrobatics at 7 and Legendary at 15, so you can tumble through enemy spaces when you need to. Take Kip Up at 7 or 8.

You might forgo Water Step and Wall Run if you think they are too situational in which case you might consider Stand Still and/or Perfect Strike (from SoP). You should definitely take Meditative Focus at 12.

FWIW this is the plan for my Tiger monk:
Stats @1
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 10

Stats @5
Str 16 Dex 18 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 10

Tiger Stance (1), Ki Rush (1 via Natural Ambition), Student of Perfection Dedication (2; gives Ki Strike), Wholeness of Body (4), SoP Perfect Strike (6), Wild Winds Initiate (8), Wind Jump (10), Meditative Focus (12), ?? (14), Wild Winds Gust (16), ?? (18), Impossible Technique (20).

As for saves, I agree with Queaux that Will>Fort>Ref and at level 17's ancestry feat, I plan on taking General Training - Canny Acumen to get my Reflex save to Master.

Hope this helps.

Is there a special reason nobody picks up Brawling Focus? Slowed once in a while sounds decent and it is not hampered by the incap trait. Too much other good picks?

Is there a special reason nobody picks up Brawling Focus? Slowed once in a while sounds decent and it is not hampered by the incap trait. Too much other good picks?

Agreed about its utility but I didn't choose it because it competes with feats that IMO are more optimal (basically more reliable/more fun). If I had a free level 2 class feat, I'd pick it up

Is there a special reason nobody picks up Brawling Focus? Slowed once in a while sounds decent and it is not hampered by the incap trait. Too much other good picks?

For me was basically like this:

1) It's on a critical hit.
2) It allows a fortitude save.
3) Nothing worse than landing a crit and having your extra neat effect being negated by a very easy to make Fort save.
4) Feels like a "Win more" rather than useful.
5) Powerful Fists applies more frequently and the net effect is the same.

I think Brawling Focus is better for Monastic Weaponry Monks, because they can choose which critical effect they get.

Also... Why is this not a class feature? Monks ARE martial classes. Why they don't get critical specialization like the others?

Ubertron_X wrote:

Is there a special reason nobody picks up Brawling Focus? Slowed once in a while sounds decent and it is not hampered by the incap trait. Too much other good picks?

For me was basically like this:

1) It's on a critical hit.
2) It allows a fortitude save.
3) Nothing worse than landing a crit and having your extra neat effect being negated by a very easy to make Fort save.
4) Feels like a "Win more" rather than useful.
5) Powerful Fists applies more frequently and the net effect is the same.

I think Brawling Focus is better for Monastic Weaponry Monks, because they can choose which critical effect they get.

Also... Why is this not a class feature? Monks ARE martial classes. Why they don't get critical specialization like the others?

Fighter is the only one that gets it base, as far as I know. Ranger only gets it versus hunted prey, but it is packaged in. The same for barbarian with rage. Champions only get it with a weapon ally.

Honestly, all of these are pretty much semantics when in practice.

Ranger's will attack their prey the majority of the time, a Barbarian will be fighting with Rage every battle (unless they got knocked out or somehow used an Attack of Opportunity when not raging) and champions with weapon ally will definitely use that weapon the majority of the time.

A monk's version could be critical specialization when using Flurry of Blows. That would be fine, because it wouldn't apply with special unarmed attacks or the occasional 3rd and 4th attacks.

I know this thread is about tiger monks... but why would people pick assurance if you have 16 str ?

Assurance states

10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers).
see https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=756

but proficiency bonus doesn't include stats bonus in it.

see :
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=35

Are people just picking assurance to remove any chance to crit fail by rolling 1 ( but still crit fail by having 10 below DC ) ?

in his case having +3 str he has 65 % when rolling equal to or greater than assurance equivalent. Stats wise this is highly probable

I know this thread is about tiger monks... but why would people pick assurance if you have 16 str ?

Assurance states

10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers).
see https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=756

but proficiency bonus doesn't include stats bonus in it.

see :
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=35

Are people just picking assurance to remove any chance to crit fail by rolling 1 ( but still crit fail by having 10 below DC ) ?

in his case having +3 str he has 65 % when rolling equal to or greater than assurance equivalent. Stats wise this is highly probable

It's mostly about the lack of penalties. Assurance lets you make a trip or similar attack as your 3rd action without taking any multiple attack penalty.

Boumxyz wrote:

I know this thread is about tiger monks... but why would people pick assurance if you have 16 str ?

Assurance states

10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers).
see https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=756

but proficiency bonus doesn't include stats bonus in it.

see :
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=35

Are people just picking assurance to remove any chance to crit fail by rolling 1 ( but still crit fail by having 10 below DC ) ?

in his case having +3 str he has 65 % when rolling equal to or greater than assurance equivalent. Stats wise this is highly probable

It's mostly about the lack of penalties. Assurance lets you make a trip or similar attack as your 3rd action without taking any multiple attack penalty.

Ah now I get it.

I use it mostly to trip weaker foes for sure and get an extra attack on them if they get up or at least debuff their attack. It also lines up neatly with our Dual-wielding Ranger with Rogue multiclass.

I always try to set up his attacks and he uses Warden's Boon on my Monk. I gotta say, after seeing warden's boon in action I think it's probably one of the best feats in the game. The Flurry ranger just straight up makes me easily go for the third attack and if it was a precision ranger it would add a lot of damage on top of my already good damage, but the synergy between many attacks and a Ranger's flurry is just SO GOOD, specially with styles that give you agile attacks.

Tiger Monk looks like a very capable DPR'er, I read Tiger Slash the same way as Lightning Raven it says "CAN" shove which is pretty awesome. How does the Monks damage compare against the likes of the Big Boys, exhibit A) Barbarian, Exhibit B) Fighter.

Tiger Monk looks like a very capable DPR'er, I read Tiger Slash the same way as Lightning Raven it says "CAN" shove which is pretty awesome. How does the Monks damage compare against the likes of the Big Boys, exhibit A) Barbarian, Exhibit B) Fighter.

In my group, when the fighter lands a hit, he tends to hit harder because he uses power attack a lot. But I hit more often because of FoB. And also don't take as many hits because my action economy allows me to skirmish when he often cannot. So he's a bigger hitter but I land more hits because I have more "at bats" due to Flurry.

Haven't played with a Barb yet but I suspect they hit slightly harder than a monk but, like the fighter, they don't have as many hits per turn as monk who flurries. I also suspect they aren't as durable as monk due to rage-penalty to AC (that -1 does in fact make a difference especially when calculating crits).

Both the Barbarian and Fighters are, and should be, superior in the damage department, but the Monk also bring other stuff to the table that they can't, things like mobility and focus spells. They aren't something that Barbs and Fighters do naturally. But I don't think you should strive to beat these two classes on their best aspect since they have much more combat prowess because they have a lot less to offer in other areas. I think all three classes are in a good spot overall, I just wish Monks had some mobility feats being merged together (Wall Run and Water Step, Ki Rush and Abundant Step), because they're too niche to be Class feats or could be progression within the same feat.

They gave monks too much mobility options that overlap and forgot other aspects of martial arts that could've been enhanced. Things such as more defensive options, maybe modifiers to attacks or multiple targeting maneuvers (I can easily picture a leg sweep that would work as a cleave but for the trip action) and better reactions (I find that Stand Still is good but it could use an extra trigger for manipulate abilities).

Here's what I'm planning for my elf monk:

01 Nimble Elf, Tiger Stance, Terrain Expertise
02 Ki Rush, Quick Jump
03 Fleet
04 Rapid Mantel, Wholeness of Body
05 Elven Verve
06 Combat Climber, Water Step
07 Feather Step
08 Cat Fall, Wall Run
09 Elven Instincts
10 Kip Up, Wind Jump
11 Quick Climber
12 Meditative Focus, Steady Balance
13 Woodcraft
14 Stance Savant, Swift Sneak
15 Cloud Jump, Foil Senses (Retrain Combat Climber)
16 Guarded Movement, Wall Jump
17 Forest Stealth
18 Quick Squeeze, Swift River
19 Legendary Sneak
20 Enduring Quickness, Nimble Crawl

So far I'm level 4 and having a blast. High AC, 50 ft. movement speed, and flurry of blows means I can dash in from all the way across the battlefield or from behind total cover, Strike twice, then get out of Dodge before anyone can respond. Only time I ever take damage is either when I'm caught WAY OUT in the open and am subject to long-ranged attacks, or from enemy reactions.

Simply not being in a position to be attacked is miles better than standing there and hoping a shield will make the difference most any day.

I'm building towards extreme mobility so that nothing will be able to stop me or hold me down (at least not for long). With a little luck in match ups, I may even be able to kite certain monsters that are much tougher than me all by myself.

Simply not being in a position to be attacked is miles better than standing there and hoping a shield will make the difference most any day.

This is TRUTH!

So far I'm level 4 and having a blast. High AC, 50 ft. movement speed, and flurry of blows means I can dash in from all the way across the battlefield or from behind total cover, Strike twice, then get out of Dodge before anyone can respond. Only time I ever take damage is either when I'm caught WAY OUT in the open and am subject to long-ranged attacks, or from enemy reactions.

Simply not being in a position to be attacked is miles better than standing there and hoping a shield will make the difference most any day.

I'm building towards extreme mobility so that nothing will be able to stop me or hold me down (at least not for long). With a little luck in match ups, I may even be able to kite certain monsters that are much tougher than me all by myself.

I wish I could do it so much, but there's a surprisingly amount of enemies with attacks of opportunity in Age of Ashes. I also often can't afford to get in and out because my party members are often very close to battle as well that can't afford to take too many hits, the problems of having an Alchemist in the party.

I'm building towards extreme mobility so that nothing will be able to stop me or hold me down (at least not for long).

The Matthew Wilder build. ;)

It's mostly about the lack of penalties. Assurance lets you make a trip or similar attack as your 3rd action without taking any multiple attack penalty.

Admittedly, you could probably pull off trip as a first action without too much pain. Tiger stance is agile and you would also get bonuses from making the enemy flat footed, so Trip+Flurry has a last hit that is roughly as accurate as the second hit of dragon stance (0/-2/-6 vs. 0/-5).

I'm building towards extreme mobility so that nothing will be able to stop me or hold me down (at least not for long). With a little luck in match ups, I may even be able to kite certain monsters that are much tougher than me all by myself.

*queue Benny Hill theme*

What type of attribute allocation is good for a Tiger Monk?

One other thing, damage wise how does the Tiger stance compare to the Dragon stance/Crane Flutter Monk?

DEX> STR/CON > WIS> INT/CHAR.

STR and CON are tied together because you can either opt to have higher HP and Fortitude or you can focus more on damage, athletic checks (later on you can do some cool stuff with high proficiency in it) and combat maneuvers (With some investment you have a high chance of success and with assurance you can do combat maneuvers as a third action against weaker foes).

As for INT and CHAR, I think this will be up to two things: Character choices and what to do with your third action. CHAR is good for social skills as well as feint and/or intimidate for combat, INT will be granting you languages and skills, so it's also helpful in its own way.

DEX> STR/CON > WIS> INT/CHAR.

I would end up going with more strength if you are doing an athletics focus through trip or grappling builds. Sure, it wastes the advantage of finesse, but agile attacks with trip is good enough to be the main focus of a build.

Anyway, for stats, a human/half human can easily grab 18/16/12/10/12/10 or 18/16/14/8/12/8 with flaws. For a finesse build, I would just switch str and dex around.

Of course, this kind of spread is not for use when you have a social/cha combat or knowledge build in mind. For that, I would tend more towards finesse (To save stats taken from str to place elsewhere). So maybe a 14/18/12/10/10/14 for a cha positive build.

Tiger Stance would not be much different from standard Monk would be, get Ki strike and Winding Flow, one more focus spell to increase the pool by one and get meditative focus at 12 and there, damaging Tiger Monk, get Feather Step in the general feats because it's something that improve the step action.

Now for something more gimmicky I would probably combine a reach weapon with the Tiger Stance, use Tiger Slash to shove the creature and then Flurry of Blows to attack with the reach weapon. Far from optimal however.

Sweet, how do you optimally use Winding Flow? Is it pretty much a must have on the Tiger stance?

Kyrone wrote:

Tiger Stance would not be much different from standard Monk would be, get Ki strike and Winding Flow, one more focus spell to increase the pool by one and get meditative focus at 12 and there, damaging Tiger Monk, get Feather Step in the general feats because it's something that improve the step action.

Now for something more gimmicky I would probably combine a reach weapon with the Tiger Stance, use Tiger Slash to shove the creature and then Flurry of Blows to attack with the reach weapon. Far from optimal however.

Sweet, how do you optimally use Winding Flow? Is it pretty much a must have on the Tiger stance?

I would imagine it is useful in many of the same situations as ki rush, where you want extra movement without using extra actions. It just doesn't use ki, but it is restricted to some combo of stride+step.

Of course, tiger stance has a longer step than other monks. I wouldn't say winding step is a must have for tiger monks, but tiger monk is a must have for winding step users. Nice if you aim to be a mobile outfighter.

Lightning Raven wrote:

DEX> STR/CON > WIS> INT/CHAR.

I would end up going with more strength if you are doing an athletics focus through trip or grappling builds. Sure, it wastes the advantage of finesse, but agile attacks with trip is good enough to be the main focus of a build.

Anyway, for stats, a human/half human can easily grab 18/16/12/10/12/10 or 18/16/14/8/12/8 with flaws. For a finesse build, I would just switch str and dex around.

Of course, this kind of spread is not for use when you have a social/cha combat or knowledge build in mind. For that, I would tend more towards finesse (To save stats taken from str to place elsewhere). So maybe a 14/18/12/10/10/14 for a cha positive build.

You can use DEX in place of your STR to combat maneuvers because they have the Attack trait, which finesse trait permits. So it is not a big deal. Although, for every other purpose, the lack of strength will make a difference (specially if it's 2-3 points behind, because in this case the d20 variance will matter less than if it was just 1 point difference).

lemeres wrote:

Lightning Raven wrote:

DEX> STR/CON > WIS> INT/CHAR.

I would end up going with more strength if you are doing an athletics focus through trip or grappling builds. Sure, it wastes the advantage of finesse, but agile attacks with trip is good enough to be the main focus of a build.

Anyway, for stats, a human/half human can easily grab 18/16/12/10/12/10 or 18/16/14/8/12/8 with flaws. For a finesse build, I would just switch str and dex around.

Of course, this kind of spread is not for use when you have a social/cha combat or knowledge build in mind. For that, I would tend more towards finesse (To save stats taken from str to place elsewhere). So maybe a 14/18/12/10/10/14 for a cha positive build.

You can use DEX in place of your STR to combat maneuvers because they have the Attack trait, which finesse trait permits. So it is not a big deal. Although, for every other purpose, the lack of strength will make a difference (specially if it's 2-3 points behind, because in this case the d20 variance will matter less than if it was just 1 point difference).

You can't use dex for maneuvers if your stance attack doesn't have a maneuver trait. If you could, anyone could use dex because fists are finesse.

Lightning Raven wrote:

You can use DEX in place of your STR to combat maneuvers because they have the Attack trait, which finesse trait permits. So it is not a big deal. Although, for every other purpose, the lack of strength will make a difference (specially if it's 2-3 points behind, because in this case the d20 variance will matter less than if it was just 1 point difference).

You can't use dex for maneuvers if your stance attack doesn't have a maneuver trait. If you could, anyone could use dex because fists are finesse.

...and thus why they bother labeling the athletics skill as a str skill in the first place. By default, it uses strength, and you need to use other more specific rules and situations to switch it up.

My friends we have been sidetracked, please aid Atalius the eternal noob in learning which style deals more damage Tiger or Dragon? This is a perplexing issue.

Dragon has a d10, so it deals more damage. Agile doesn't help as much and backswing does very very little.

Dragon has a d10, so it deals more damage. Agile doesn't help as much and backswing does very very little.

Hmm D10 does more than Tiger Slash? It seems much closer? Using FoB after a Tiger Slash seems quite good and agile would be quite handy no?

citricking wrote:

Dragon has a d10, so it deals more damage. Agile doesn't help as much and backswing does very very little.

Hmm D10 does more than Tiger Slash? It seems much closer? Using FoB after a Tiger Slash seems quite good and agile would be quite handy no?

Yeah if using all actions to attack and tiger slash then tiger stance is a little ahead at levels 8-11 and 14 (not including bleed damage) against a moderate ac target.

Atalius wrote:

citricking wrote:

Dragon has a d10, so it deals more damage. Agile doesn't help as much and backswing does very very little.

Hmm D10 does more than Tiger Slash? It seems much closer? Using FoB after a Tiger Slash seems quite good and agile would be quite handy no?

Yeah if using all actions to attack and tiger slash then tiger stance is a little ahead at levels 8-11 and 14 (not including bleed damage) against a moderate ac target.

I would imagine that things get rather front loaded, since the first attack (which has no relationship with agile) has the highest hit chance, and thus the highest chance to crit.

However, since monks can get two attacks off with a single action, they are less tempted to spend the second and third actions since they are getting -8 to hit if you don't get any bonuses or debuffs going. You need an active incentive to pull of three attack style actions in a round- Trip+Stunning fist, for example, sees benefit from agile since it can front load a debuff that helps your attacks, and the combo gives you incentives to try for all of the hits since they can cripple an opponent.

Agile doesn't do as much as the extra 1 average damage per die. If you want to primarily be a damage dealer, I'd go Dragon Stance instead of Tiger Stance. Strength primary monks are better strikers in general.

Tiger Stance is a good style for a dex focused monk, though. The Dex monk has the highest AC in the game at level 20 with an Apex item. Monk's also have the best save progression. The Champion with a shield ally will be mildly more defensible with their shield ally HP and extra shield block reaction. The Dex monk also has a lot of versatility. The Wild Winds Stance with Wild Winds Gust makes the monk the best martial at taking on mobs. Tangled Forest stance is one of the best tanking tools in the game.

The Dex monk has the highest AC in the game at level 20 with an Apex item.

I think I'm missing something. Isn't the champion 1 point ahead on account of using heavy armor (armor + Dex of +6) instead of Bracers or Explorer's Clothing (armor + Dex of +5)?

Crane style gets you an additional +1 to catch up, but then limits you to Crane style attacks.

Queaux wrote:

The Dex monk has the highest AC in the game at level 20 with an Apex item.

I think I'm missing something. Isn't the champion 1 point ahead on account of using heavy armor (armor + Dex of +6) instead of Bracers or Explorer's Clothing (armor + Dex of +5)?

Crane style gets you an additional +1 to catch up, but then limits you to Crane style attacks.

Looks like I'm wrong. I thought bracers didn't have the max dex cap. There's a sidebar where it refers to it not having a max dex. Interestingly enough, the max dex penalty is lifted when using the no magic items variant rules. I wonder if that's an error.

That does certainly change my evaluation.

Regarding who does more damage, Dragon or Tiger, let's first assume Dragon is 18 Str and 16 Dex and Tiger is 16 Str and 18 Dex. This is how I tend to look at it:

1st Strike = dragon wins because it's a 1d10+4 while tiger is 1d8+3; they have an equal chance of hitting

2nd Strike = dragon again but he's less accurate than tiger; dragon is at -5 MAP whereas tiger is at -4 MAP. That -1 isn't as insignificant in 2e as it was in 1e but still more often than not, dragon will come out on top wrt dealing more damage than tiger on this attack. Remember though, had dragon missed on strike #1, because of backswing, he and tiger have same -4 MAP for this 2nd attack

3rd Strike = dragon again, but he's unlikely to hit with a -10 MAP. Tiger has a better chance of hitting being at -8 MAP. But still both are unlikely to hit a target that is +/- 2 the monk's level

So if you're focused on damage, dragon's your guy. With that said, the mobility (and better AC) of the tiger monk has tactical advantages that aren't as immediately apparent as damage potential; I can tell you first hand that tiger's 10ft step has allowed my tiger monk to move and strike without triggering the baddie's reactions.

Regarding Tiger Slash, I'm not a fan TBH because it's 2 actions for 1 strike, which means I'd only use in when I have improved chances to actually land the strike (e.g. I'm flanking, target is prone, etc.) and even then, I have a chance of missing. I find the other level 4 and level 6 feats are more compelling. But YMMV.

Ya I see. It just seems nasty if the enemy is already flat footed, say your level 12 with a Greater Striking Rune, and a 19 Str at that level, your doing 5D8+4 (plus any weapon specialization etc) damage with that Tiger Slash and then following up with an agile FOB. Eventually your looking at 7D8+5 (plus weapon specialization etc) with ur tiger Slash with a major striking rune. Seems like a good amount of dmg even for two actions since it's the first attack pretty good chance of landing assumimg flat footed, I wouldn't attempt it under any other conditions.

This seems good on an ideal scenario for sure. But you should be looking at Tiger Slash as a different tool rather than a damage enhancer.

Sometimes the primary reason is the Shove along with the extra damage, sometimes the enemy will have high AC so the second attack is very unlikely to hit (I fought one enemy where I had to roll a 17 to hit on second attack) which makes the Tiger Slash a much better prospect at damage than a normal attack with Flurry of Blows.

Doing a Tiger Slash then going for a FoB is great if you have a Flurry Ranger in your party that can grant you Warden's Boon along with some other buffs, but doing it with no buffs is unlikely to succeed, so it's better to use the third action to do something else (Draw a potion, reposition, trip another foe with Assurance, intimidate, use a focus spell like Wholeness of Body, etc).

Ya I see. It just seems nasty if the enemy is already flat footed, say your level 12 with a Greater Striking Rune, and a 19 Str at that level, your doing 5D8+4 (plus any weapon specialization etc) damage with that Tiger Slash and then following up with an agile FOB. Eventually your looking at 7D8+5 (plus weapon specialization etc) with ur tiger Slash with a major striking rune. Seems like a good amount of dmg even for two actions since it's the first attack pretty good chance of landing assumimg flat footed, I wouldn't attempt it under any other conditions.

Tiger Slash is going to be best when you have a good chance to crit. If you have a bard in the party doing the synesthesia/inspire courage stacking, for instance, it becomes incredibly powerful. Multi-classing and casting True Strike is another way to make it very powerful.

Interesting, True Strike with Tiger Slash seems decent but not quite as good as True Strike with Power Attack (w/ Furious Focus of course). I guess I shouldn't be comparing a Monk with Wizard Dedication with a Fighter with wizard Dedication or else I'll be disappointed. I should be trying to compare Dragon with Tiger and time and time again Dragon seems to be the better way to go but just slightly. Dragon Roar seems solid but the big negative is that you become a bit more MAD which means you will suffer somewhere else. I would be able to dump INT and CHA as a Tiger Monk which is nice. Strictly comparing the two stances Dragon stance vs Tiger stance, Dragon looks better. Comparing there second feats Dragon Roar vs Tiger Slash I like Tiger Slash better for the reason stated above (MAD). Would anyone suggest any other good feats to pair with Tiger stance/Tiger Slash if i was looking to MC into another dedication?