So many questions to cross post...
btw last question, do any of the statue provide dim light?
and did we ever decide on who rolls the conealment?
Nairb the GreyToday at 10:04 AM
a very small amount. If you look closely there is a shadow cast on the map. very faint. If you are on the south side of the statue or pillar and within 5' then you are in dim light.
I thought we did...but I don't remember the answer. See if the others do.
TobiasToday at 10:05 AM
nice also should we disable better for this round, cause whoever win would get ALOT of cash.
betting-
Nairb the GreyToday at 10:06 AM
can only bet once per arena. I am leaving the odds at 1 for 1. So you can place a 200 gold bet on a single team to win.
And possibly win or lose 200 gold.
TobiasToday at 10:06 AM
thats fair
I thought we were gonna blur the names!
Now everyone will know how much of a newb I am!
haha
@Nairb
What about using Acrobatics to keep balance on top of the statue? From what I read in the skill description of Acrobatics, this seems like a perfect use of Acrobatics.
Weird, it looks like my earlier post responding to you Beansidhe got eaten...
So yes to Acrobatics...I had not thought about that since it isn't a skill I use in game very often as a player. Looking over the rules for it the DC for the acrobatics check would be 14.
****
Arena Map built and linked to battle room A. Everyone can head on over there and dot in and roll initiative.
To summarize from the initiative discussions, we will be doing separate initiatives instead of block. By RAW this also means that critters like Eidolons, Animal Companions, Hirelings, and Purchased pets do have a separate initiative score as well, but I would encourage you to delay until you and your special friend that you post for is synced up...just to make that part of it run more smoothly (that way you only have to make one post per round).
Since there hasn't been anything from the people affected regarding concerns on fractional bonus progression, that is now greenlit. This may change some of your bonuses if you have taken a level in 2 different classes, so please look over that.
I am around if you have questions about the new map.
Does retraining/ spending money to pay for NPC services drop our WBL (As if we had lost it in a bet), or is it just counted as things bought?
Services rendered are different from something purchased. It would drop your Wealth.
Alright, so then, if everyone's character sheets are correct going into the next round, then everyone's WBL is as follows:
Me: 1690
Arist:1566
Beetly:1987.5
Parthit:1800
Boom:1950
Asaak:2000
Archythe:1950
Drogo:1900
Tobia:1650
Bean: 2200
-Arist, you have 4x alchemical grease on your character sheet, but don't have them bought in your spending list
-Beetly, your WBL dropped because you sold your armor, so a Cloak of Resistance is more then 50% of your current WBL. You should have lots of money remaining, so if you hold of on selling your old armor till after this fight, then you would be able to buy it
You are completely right, I missed them when I was retracing my purchases. I've marked them now.
-Beetly, your WBL dropped because you sold your armor, so a Cloak of Resistance is more then 50% of your current WBL. You should have lots of money remaining, so if you hold of on selling your old armor till after this fight, then you would be able to buy it
So, I will put the bank transfer on hold, in order to not get disqualified on a technicality. Check.
(Boom, sorry, missed your winning 200 gold off me, your WBL is 2150)
Oh, and there was an error in my math for Arist:
Your WBL subtractions:
2000 gold start
-400, retraining
-75: lost from selling scroll
-4 lost from selling heavy pick
-10 from scribing spell x2 (Only pay other wizard portion)
= 1511 gp, consumables budget 151.1 gp
So that Scroll (150) eats up your entire consumables budget.
I'm just under that. I'm at 2192.5. Sold my longsword between first and second level to buy a masterwork one.
Also, as a funny side note for Aristotle, although it stays in your spellbook, "Keen Senses" is no longer a spell you can cast, haha
Well, it's not a great spell anyway. I had not understood that retraining went to lower the WBL (and I don't much like the idea, but whatever), so by my calculations I was well inside the limit. I won't use the scroll for this round, I'll act like I don't have it.
Aristotle, I am fine with your retraining not affecting your wealth since you went down that path in response to my decision about selfcrafted consumables and the 10% limit. You were a little bit forced into a retrain that you would have not had to do if you had known that from the start. So money still gets spent, but for you specifically it is kind of like phantom money in your wealth.
It's not a problem either way, I'm not looking for special treatment or retcons. I don't think I have much of a prayer with or without the scroll, anyway. I'll just try to keep it in mind if I have to use services again.
Yeah, if it wasnt for the shared HP, I think 3 mins of invis would give you a great shot in this round
Inititive order.
Asaakov = 24
Beetly =23
Boom!= 20
Penny = 20
Tobias = 19
Carlos = 17
Beansidhe = 17
Acrythe = 14
Aristotle = 13
Palthut = 12
Drogo = 4
This is just to help people keep track of when you can post!
I think this will be so much fun to watch.
Big discussion today in discord that we need other players' input on. Please review the chain below.
BeansidheToday at 9:25 AM
So I've been trying to find it, it seems I might be wrong, but thought I'd at least ask. I was always under the impression that while you can move through an ally you couldn't run or charge through them. Is that not a thing?TobiasToday at 9:27 AM
I asked carlos to be sure with that myself
looked it up as well but couldnt find anything@Nairb the Grey anything you know off?
Nairb the GreyToday at 9:28 AM
Not off the top of my head. Searching now.TobiasToday at 9:29 AM
kkBeansidheToday at 9:30 AM
Honestly, if Carlos says it's not against the rules, he's probably right. Seems to know the books front to back.TobiasToday at 9:31 AM
which helps me since I think I know ...like a page of the book....even tho I own said book XDBeansidheToday at 9:33 AM
Lol
I think I found what I thought I was looking for. But it doesn't actually support me.
Charging isn't allowed, but that's the only exception it saysNairb the GreyToday at 9:35 AM
The only rule that I can find that might affect this is that you have to squeeze to move through an allies space, and that squeezing into or out of said space counts as 2 squares of movementBeansidheToday at 9:35 AM
I must have just extended it to running
Oh wait!
This is an interpretation, so it would be up to gm here
But running does specifically say that you can't run through anything that hampers movement
Now the question is, does squeezing through the space count as hampering?
Although, honestly now that I think about that, isn't that only when squeezing through like a doorway?Nairb the GreyToday at 9:38 AM
The specific text (on d20pfsrd) is that you cannot run across difficult terrain.
here is the text for squeezing
In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.
...
A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.
The problem is it does not specifically say that moving while squeezing is difficult terrain. It effectively is, but they avoided that specific word choice.TobiasToday at 9:42 AM
dont forgetthe horse ia large createNairb the GreyToday at 9:42 AM
I think my ruling is that the snake can run (a sentence I never thought I would say), but moving through an allies square takes additional movement as described in the squeezing text. So 10' to move through the Medium allies' square instead of 5. To move through the horse's square it would be 20' (10 to enter, 10 to travel into the second square of space).BeansidheToday at 9:43 AM
In the movement section under hampered movement it says "you can't run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement."
Okay. That's fineNairb the GreyToday at 9:44 AM
are you on d20pfsrd? Can you give me a link...I am not seeing that text.
I only see no running over difficult terrain.BeansidheToday at 9:45 AM
Https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/movement/
It's under the section titled "hampered movement"Nairb the GreyToday at 9:46 AM
Well that's frustrating. Completely different language from what is found here:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Gamemastering/Combat/#TOC-Movement-Position-And-Di stanceBeansidheToday at 9:48 AM
Yeah. It's a weird chain. I'm fine with sticking with your above ruling. I just wanted to ask because I'd always played where you couldn't.
But I'm the end, the rules aren't clear. Could easily be interpreted either wayNairb the GreyToday at 9:49 AM
It does seem like a toss up. One rule says "You can’t run across difficult terrain or if you can’t see where you’re going.", the other "You can’t run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement."TobiasToday at 9:49 AM
I thought their was rule for moving through a allied square?Nairb the GreyToday at 9:49 AM
Moving yes, running no.
Or yes...depending on where you read.
<frustration>
Why couldn't they use consistent language?
When presented with two rules, one that is more restrictive than the other, I generally take the more restrictive one and apply it consistently. So that would mean no running or charging through anything that hampers your movement, including an allies' square. If applied consistently does that seem fair to everyone?
x-posting to discussion.
So...your input, how do you feel about running and charging through an ally's square?
The one more thing I'll say now is, charging is clear cut. There are several spots where it says you cannot charge through an ally. It's more the running that is up for debate right now.
Funny enough, it seems the text doesn’t appear in the maneuver text, but it shows up in feats that “solve” it.
https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dragon%20Style
Http://legacy.aonprd.com/advancedPlayersGuide/advancedFeats.html#charge-thr ough
Very odd, because it’s as if the feats break it so they can be the tax.
(Apologies for not giving url tags, I’m posting fast from a phone)
X-Post - #Ruling
DMoogle-CarlosToday at 3:12 PM
@Nairb the Grey : If I can't fail a check, want me to still roll it?
(Ride check being DC 5, and I have more then that in a bonus)
Nairb the GreyToday at 3:20 PM
A skill check? Skill checks do not have critical successes or failures...but making the roll for it does change the stack for your RNG. Normally in a table top game I would not require it. But I think in PbP the roll needs to be shown because "skipping it" might be perceived as manipulating the dice. Better safe than sorry, go ahead and roll and succeed regardless of the result.
DMoogle-CarlosToday at 3:21 PM
Sounds good, just wanted to confirm
If you could copy that ruling to the board, just so that is locked in for further rounds
X-Post - #Ruling
Based on everything I read online it seems like the majority opinion is that moving through an ally's square foes not hamper movement. I do not think the rules on that are as definitive as the could be, but I am going to go with the wisdom of the mob in absence of a clear RAW.
Having said that, the temporary ruling for pennys movement does still stand so we don't have to retcon twice.
I feel like I made that pretty clear at the time.
Going forward you can run but not charge through an ally's square.
Next in Init:
Acrythe = 14
Aristotle = 13
Palthut = 12
Drogo = 4
Asaakov = 24
Boom!= 20
Beetly = 19.9, who had delayed
Tobias = 19
Penny = 19
Beansidhe = 17
Carlos = 17
Sorry friends! My anniversary was this weekend Ill try and post later today or tomorrow but only got a moment to post this right now.
Hey, just checking to see if everyone is on the same page:
I would consider it very rude to steal consumables from unconscious PCs. Is everyone else thinking that, or is that fair game?
Agreed. With all of the things that we'd like to disable on the dead, maybe another good rule would be to let the fallen physically dissipate from the arena when they're certain they couldn't possibly be resurrected. No permanently losing limbs, etc.
Well, our GM has weighed in that the bringing back from the dead fixes anything True Res would, so thats less of an issue I think
Crossposted Questions in need of full answers:
"Winning team members will have early knowledge going into round three and can pick their opponents. More info on points will be explained when the map is revealed and rules explained ( probably tomorrow morning)."
-Did we ever get that more info on points?
---------------------------
Questions talked about, but not fully answered:
-As written, when wizards die, they lose their arcane bond to familiar or object. Do they have to pay to reset those?
- Ditto if you have spells made Permanent/ Any number of other psudo permanent things/etc?
--------------
Basically the question boils down to, do we each die and come back, or are our bodies wisked away right at the moment we would, and then healed up?
Also, do you want there to be a difference between PC A being at -5 and losing a fight, (and thus doesnt really die), and PC A being at 1 HP, and eating a crit to -45 (Thus really dying)
Crossposted/ Summerized from Discord:
Currently Acrythe, Palthut and Aristotle forgot to buy Spell Component Pouches. They may retroactively do so at this time.
"Winning team members will have early knowledge going into round three and can pick their opponents. More info on points will be explained when the map is revealed and rules explained ( probably tomorrow morning)."
-Did we ever get that more info on points?
I never did get back around to that...I don't want the BR to end up giving anyone (Carlos) a huge lead on other players (everyone that isn't Carlos). So I think we need to go with a medal system kind of scoring like the 1v1v1 had.
So, If you are the last team standing, 3 points. 2nd place, 2 points. Third place, 1 point. If you are the first or second teams eliminated then 0 points for this round.
Seems fair. Open to comments.
-As written, when wizards die, they lose their arcane bond to familiar or object. Do they have to pay to reset those?
- Ditto if you have spells made Permanent/ Any number of other psudo permanent things/etc?
So as mentioned in the discord, It is not my intention for death (something that will happen every single round) to cause a huge drain on resources. Outside of a few fun things to increase or decrease your wealth, I want the build by level to be as close as we can to WBL (like +/- 10ish percent), and if we are draining gold every round due to death and dismemberment then that won't happen.
So. Where I have landed is that if you die you get a free true resurrection. I think by extension we need to say that familiars and arcane bonds are unimpacted by death in this particular tournament as well. In addition, I had previously said that long term debuffs (like level drain or deafness from Thundering Infusion) would have to be removed through use of your wealth after combat. As I think about it further though, I don't think that makes sense. Because if I am deafened, then I could just die, get a free True resurrection and poof, no longer deafened.
So where we land is at the end of each combat everyone is restored to the like new condition they were in when the battle began. Consider it True Ressurection + Greater Restoration + Free Familiar/Arcane Bond Restoration.
I think that is the best I can do. But again, open to comment.
So, to confirm then, if were to pay to get a spell permanencied, it would not persist across "deaths", and if Bean were to magic up his bow it would not remain even if he died? (The second is mechanically different from him Arcane Bonding an already magic bow/paying someone else to magic up his bow)
Crafting Magic into his bow is part of the arcane bond feature, so anything that he enchanted into the bow would stay through death (because the arcane bond gets restored through GM fiat). If he arcane bonded a magic item, well, that point is moot because the item stays magic anyways.
Discussing it in discord we decided that permanency is not dispelled by death.
Relevent Questions:
1: Bean has tagged out, and I'm working on an assumption that I don't want to piss him off by rooting through his gear for consumables. Can I still pick up his bow and use it until the end of round?
2: With Bean tagged out, and Acrythe not, does that mean that Acythe's HP drops by however much Bean brought, which means he's got enough damage on him to kill him instantly, or does the damage split, or does he just stay at his current total?
2A: If the damage splitting would mean that he didn't take enough to knock him out, can he get back up? (Not the case for him, but still important to know)
3: If one teammate (Such as Boom!) were to eat a death effect and die (Such as a Coup de grace), what HP would Beetly be at (As the crit damage is unrelated to the insta death part) ?
4: Can you Coup De Grace with a Gun. RAW says no, only bows and crossbows.
1a: If the answer is no, would it be different if he didn't tag out?
1) When Bean her body and gear Thanos dusted away. Bow is gone. If you want a bow go buy one yourself. :P
1a) If Bean had not tagged out then you could use her equipment until she died/tagged out at which point the gear would dust. Consumables grabbed and used from your opponents will end up being GM cursed a-la items off of a dead body in Nethack.
2) The negative HP total stays the same. Acrythe is still unconscious and still needs to stabilize or tag out. When/If he gets back up he would only have his own max hp at this point, not the combined.
2a) No longer relevant
3) The HP damage from the coup de grace still happens and is deducted from the groups HP total. If it is not enough to reduce them to 0 HP then the CdG fails as if Boom made his saving through...because Soul Link makes things weird.
4) I have been thinking about this one through the day. RAW says no...sometimes RAW is stupid. I can walk up and put a gun to your head when you are helpless and pull the trigger...that is a CdG. You can CdG with a Gun just like a bow or crossbow.
Would CdG with a firearm require an attack roll due to misfire chance?
Yes, It will auto hit so long as there is no misfire though.
But then it would need 37 damage (current group HP total) or fail, no fort save required either way?
It needs 37 damage to force the fort save...if you pass the fort save at that point you are unconscious and dying and you can either tap out or attempt to stabilize.
Not normal CdG rules...that is just how I am proposing it interacts with the HP sharing
Open to comment on all of those.
new rule: NO posting before AoO are resolved.
Hey folks, I (and Palthut) will be away this weekend with limited access to post. Best case, I'll be able to do short posts through the weekend. Worst case, I'll catch up Sunday afternoon.
I've got a moment to copy and paste a small update in my threads. I expect to be able to return next Thursday or Friday.
So...with Acrythe ready to go we have a decision to make as a group. At this point I am assuming that Shamanita is not available. Three options!
Discuss. Which option would you guys most like?
Carlos waits. I don't mean to be mean, but its an evenly matched fight and I assume that they'll be going on a while after us, and that's fine by me.
I’m cool waiting also.
Alright, based on everyone's votes and my personal preference of not reworking what I have already done, we are going to move forward with Carlos waiting for Bean to be ready. I will start updating the map links now. Once you have looked at the map and your opponent you can decide on any day of preparations (what spells do you pick, what prebuffs do you cast) and then roll initiative in your arena thread. Once both combatants have rolled initiative you may begin.
With the exception of Beansidhe, all initiative rolls should be completed within 48 hours. From there standard post warnings will be issued.
xpost RE Doors
DMoogle-CarlosToday at 8:50 AM
-Both of the doors you opened were open to begin with @[UTC-7] PaleDim - Asaakoz , @Loganic-Drogo . All interior doors start that way
[UTC-7] PaleDim - AsaakozToday at 10:05 AM
Derp, I’ll go add some more movement later today
Nairb the GreyToday at 10:13 AM
That is my fault, I contradicted myself in two places...the map says open by default...earlier in discord I think I wrote that they were closed and automatically swing closed.
I will stay with the open by default though.
@Nairb the Grey I think there's some conflicting ideas whether the center isle of the bar is floor to ceiling, people height, or open, IE Total cover, no line of effect or Improved cover, blocking sight but not effect, or just normal cover
Can it be shot over, can it be seen over?
(The spotlight makes it reasonable to identify a characters square and try to shoot over it, especially form the stage)
Nairb the GreyToday at 10:19 AM
The area in the middle of the bar is slightly higher than bar height...probably a solid 4' (bars are normally 40 - 42") and has stuff hanging down from above. (like suspended glasses, additional bottle storage).
I would guess that there is probably an opening of about 2' between the top of the island and the bottom of the low clearance storage stuff. Definitely cover, but it does not block all like of sight.
There was a discussion in the Discord about how to access the faction locked material in the Adventures Guide, and the Villain Codex. It looks like we are going with the default option from the book, in which you need to be affiliated with a group to use their material, and that you can have a max affiliations = CHA Mod +1.
Currently I believe the only person who has used anything out of those books is Palthut, as the Burning Sands spells requires affiliation with the AL-ZABRITI, and that sweet, sweet desert lifestyle
I'm back. I'm not going to catch up on the discord at all. Not even going to attempt, so if there's anything important I need to know, best to tell me here. Also, I've only kind of caught up on these threads. I stopped after A) Finding out I'm still fighting in this round (and fighting Carlos--@#$&%^); and B) Finding out the fight is in a nightclub.
Now I've got a problem I didn't finish choosing my 3rd level feat or the scrolls I said I was going to take a look at and purchase before I was ready. Am I still able to do those things? I hate that I've got this accidental forknowledge here, but I don't know how else to change it. I'm not hopeful this time anyway, and don't know that it matters if we just say "no, you've gotta go in as is, get to prepare spells and that's it."
I'll wait on GM decision, and stay off of discord until both a decision has been made on whether I can level up, and until I've done said level up if allowed. Just to avoid knowing more about the arena or whatever.
Extenuating circumstances being what they are, you get to have a little bit of forward knowledge while making your level up and purchase decisions. Frankly, going up against Carlos it seems like you need the help anyways. :D
Avoid getting any more until you have locked in your choices. Then head over to arena A and roll for initative.
Okay, I've done the level up I'm willing to lock that in. Do I still get to look at the map before locking in prepared spells? Or do I need to lock those in before checking out the map.
You get to know what is on the map before locking in your prepared spells and casting any prebuffs.