Intense Variant Rules Gestalt Mythic Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition (Inactive)

Game Master Sebecloki

This would be mostly out of the box, in contrast with some of my other games. Mostly I will just jack up the power of the opponents.

Stats:

*50pt. buy. Min/max as per normal rules-max 18, min 7, I believe. Then add or subtract racial etc. modifiers.

Races:

*Needs to make sense for setting. Drow Noble probably doesn't... 3rd party is fine. Should be mostly humans.

Class:

*Gestalt. Start at 3rd. 3rd party is fine.
*If power words exist from ultimate magic for your caster class, you have to use words of power instead of normal casting. This exempts occult classes etc.

*1 mythic tier. Gestalt two mythic progressions.

Other rules:

Ultimate Combat:

*Wounds and vigor. Double vigor at 1st level. Otherwise take half as minimum if you roll under that amount.
*Armor as damage reduction
*Piecemeal armor
*No iteratives
*Called shots

Unchained:

*Unchained action economy
*Background skills
*Skill unlocks. Everyone gets associated feat for free.
*Stamina. Everyone gets associated feat free.

*Hero points
*Double starting wealth standard for 3rd level.

Feats:

*One feat per level as well as the bonus feat progression for the Fighter class (so the progression is as if you were a Fighter getting 1 feat per level plus your class feats. If you are a fighter, you get two bonus feats every time you'd have gotten one).
*Same progression applies to mythic feats.
*Horrifically Overpowered feats series allowed. Horrifically Overpowered is its own type. Any feat marked as such can't ever be taken them as a bonus feat due to race or class; you can have a maximum of 1 Horrifically Overpowered Feat at 1st level, 2 at 3rd level, and an additional 1 every 3 levels thereafter.

*2 traits.

Guns are common/everywhere in this version of Golarion.

Campaign concept. You are reincarnated heroes from ancient Thassilon. Make up a story that takes that into account.

Caveat. This is a theory crafter game. Don't apply if you're worried about other players out optimizing you. Don't question someone else's build unless it's a rules issue - no complaints about optimisation.

Usually I'm open to debating rules ideas. I have a different approach for this one. This is the game I want to run. No substitutions, or individual exceptions. If the variant rules mess up a build idea, pick something else for this game.

I want 6-8 players. Happy to clarify issues, but please note above about my expectations for this recruitment.

I'd be interested in trying this out, I've never played a gunslinger class but that seems like a fine thing to try in this Golarion.

Question on the Mythic, does the gestalt two mythic progressions mean I could have the second path free? So a Champion/Trickster combo?

I'd be interested in trying this out, I've never played a gunslinger class but that seems like a fine thing to try in this Golarion.

Question on the Mythic, does the gestalt two mythic progressions mean I could have the second path free? So a Champion/Trickster combo?

I think the answer is yes. It's like using the gestalt rules for mythic paths.

I would love to play in this game, but I don’t know half of what you’re talking about in the creation. Good luck with the recruitment!

I can point you to the sources if you'd like to read up on the rules variants. If what you mean is you just want to play Rise of the Runelords, then this probably isn't the game for you. I'm only going to run this if I can get a group that will play with these rules.

I have a gestalt melee combatant non-caster idea I was curious about. Under these rules, I have no idea how big he'll get, or how big what you'll put in front of him will get, either.

I'm gonna play at it for a bit, I think.

Legendary Games has produced a line of supplements that gives mythic versions of all the bestiary entries from the original AP. I'm going to start there and work upwards for each encounter. It will probably take a little calibration but I'm confident I can work it out.

I'm running a similar high power Dark Sun game you can look at through my profile if you want to check on my GMing style.

Very interested, but that's a lot of options. I don't see why 50 PB is necessary oO

These are the rules I want to play with - if I can't get a group that will be a little disappointing, but I'd rather not run it than have to change any of my rules preferences. I'm usually open to a little give and take for rules but for this one I want to just do what I want and it either gets enough applications or not, but I only want to GM with these rules.

Full parallel mythic paths, or the core level ability chart once only and the two path charts in parallel, or more like standard gestalt where you pick one of duplicate abilities between the sides?

1 gets double feats/attribute bonuses/etc. and 2 sets of path abilities
2 gets 2 sets of path abilities
3 gets to pick 1 path ability per tier, but from either of 2 paths

Like normal gestalt. It's like you have one path but add on the non duplicated abilities of another.

You get the base abilities once. Mythic feat progression is as for normal feats per tier. You get all the abilities of 2 paths like you would for gestalting classes.

I think that's 2 in your options.

I'm not sure what you mean by picking duplicate for option 3. You take the faster progression for duplicate abilities in gestalt, there's no selection going on.

I'll make something! At the least, this sounds funny to create with.

Reincarnated Thassilonian heroes as in people from the current time, but with the soul of an ancient Thassilonian (which is the source of their overpoweredness). As opposed to an ancient Thassilonian brought back to life, correct?

Under what circumstances is the game's introduction? Is it the same as normal RotRL?

Also, what's your timeline for starting the game?

Yeah first option - reincarnated. Possessing transigrated soul of a ancient hero. Have had dreams of their prior life during their childhood.

It will be the same set up as the original module with the festival and goblin attack.

I'm not setting a firm start date yet. I'll see how many complete submissions I get.

I usually change a lot of plot stuff, but I'm only going to pump up the stats and maybe improve or expand a couple maps. This may be boring if you've already played these modules, there won't be new plot twists.

I'm not sure what you mean by picking duplicate for option 3. You take the faster progression for duplicate abilities in gestalt, there's no selection going on.

Things like if you pick two classes that both give Uncanny Dodge, the class benefit from one is basically wasted; if you took Shifter and Monk, you don't get to stack the Wisdom+ bonuses; if you took Shifter and Druid, you don't get to add the Wildshape durations.

Under those rules, the two sides both giving a path ability at each level would identify as duplicate abilities, and you would only get one per level.

I had trouble tracking down any details on the Horrifically Overpowered Feats and no real 3rd part library to work from, so I feel like I'm a serious disadvantage for building this uber-uber-super-powered characters. Though I did find enough on the HOF to pick the first couple.

My thought was an Elven Dex-based Shifter/Rogue. As I look through the available rule sets, though, I'm less convinced that class pairing takes full advantage of the opportunities you are providing.

I am uncertain at this point.

I don't see how path abilities are duplicates. It's like you get to choose a rogue talent on one side and slayer talent on the other. You'd get 2 path abilities, but you have to choose them each from the respective paths, you can't give your path ability slot to the other side of the gestalt.

Interesting. Very interesting.

So, no two months of brainstorming for the actual rules; take it or leave it.

Let's see what can I come up with.

Is there a way to have a look at the Horrifically Overpowered Feats for free?

I eventually found a review on a forum that included the text for what appears to be most of the original book's rules. It is not complete with the benefit detail rules text missing for several of the feats. I'll have to link to that after I get home from work if nobody does sooner.

The ones I was looking at starring with are obviously linked. If you are soing point buy attributes and you take one of these at level 1, cut your point buy value in half. But either your physicql or mental atats are all 3 18's and you apend your point buy on the other half. Take the second of the two at level 3, and all of your attributes are 18's before racial adjustments. There are better chouces for casters that don't work in this rule set. How about iterative casting? 2 spells per full round action at level 6, 3 at 11?

I eventually found a review on a forum that included the text for what appears to be most of the original book's rules. It is not complete with the benefit detail rules text missing for several of the feats. I'll have to link to that after I get home from work if nobody does sooner.

The ones I was looking at starring with are obviously linked. If you are soing point buy attributes and you take one of these at level 1, cut your point buy value in half. But either your physicql or mental atats are all 3 18's and you apend your point buy on the other half. Take the second of the two at level 3, and all of your attributes are 18's before racial adjustments. There are better chouces for casters that don't work in this rule set. How about iterative casting? 2 spells per full round action at level 6, 3 at 11?

I'm not sure about the last point. No iterative is a rule from ultimate combat where you roll once for all attacks and how much you succeed by determines how many hits you get. It doesn't apply to spells.

I'm having a hard time understanding some of your points because of the sentence breaks and spell corrector errors. If you want to repost I can see if I can get a better sense of what you're asking.

Interesting. Very interesting.

So, no two months of brainstorming for the actual rules; take it or leave it.

Let's see what can I come up with.

Is there a way to have a look at the Horrifically Overpowered Feats for free?

You don't have to use it. I'm just ruling on it in case it comes up.

Well, I don't know if I want to use it because I've never read it xD I'm not sure I want to pay 4 dollars for it, because it's quite probable I won't use it again.

I'll consider about all this.

I'm interested in this. I'll have to see if the gestalt I wanted will work but I'll try and come up with something.

There seems to be a ton of "Horrifically Overpowered Feats" books. Are all of them in use, or just the first?

Also, to anyone who owns them: What does "heroic Grace" do? it seems similar to Divine Grace by the comments, but I don't know the specifics.

I own them if you want to look at something specific. I don't think it's legal to share or cut and paste the whole thing.

You can use any third party source, I'm just ruling on these so those who own it don't try to choose every feat from them, I'm putting limits on it. You'd don't have to use these sources. I own nearly a 1,000 pdfs in addition to my huge library of physical books.

Heroic Grace
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are destined for greatness, and are
thus unlikely to be petrified by a wandering
monster.
Benefit: You may add your Int, Wis, or
Cha bonus to all your saving throws, in
addition to your normal ability modifier.
This does not stack with the paladin’s divine
grace class feature, or any other ability
that adds your Int, Wis, or Cha to all your
saving throws. (You are still allowed to add
your Wisdom bonus to your Will saves, as
normal.)

Thank you. I was looking specifically at this one, the ones who turn your stats into 18s and the one that gives you a mini-Gestalt. As you said, there's only room for 2 of them at character creation anyway, so that kind of "limits the horrificness".

I'll com up with a Blaster Sage or something similar (I hate God Wizards), so no risk of bursting any game.

These are the stat ones -- given the point buy, it's not really worth it; in cases like these, select another option if that bothers you.

That's what I meant in the caveat -- I'm not doing if, ands, buts, whats, etc. for this recruitment. Either you can make a character to your satisfaction with these rules, or not. I'll adjudicate issues where something is unclear how rules interact or which are in play, but I'm not adjusting anything to make exceptions for individual preferences -- the above are the rules.

Mental Paragon
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are the peak of mental perfection for
your race.
Benefit: Your Intelligence, Wisdom, and
Charisma are a base of 18 (before racial
and level-based adjustments). If you take
this feat at first level and roll for ability
scores, you may only roll for your physical
statistics. For example, if your campaign
normally has new characters roll six times
for ability scores, rolling 4d6 and take the
best 3 each time, you are only allowed to do
this three times (using the values for your
Str, Dex, and Con). If you take this feat at 1st
level and use a point-buy for ability scores,
you get only half as many points (round up)
to buy your physical ability scores.

Physical Paragon
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are the peak of physical perfection
for your race.
Benefit: Your Strength, Dexterity, and
Constitution are a base of 18 (before racial
and level-based adjustments). If you take
this feat at first level and roll for ability
scores, you may only roll for your mental
statistics. For example if your campaign
normally has new characters roll six times
for ability scores, rolling 4d6 and take the
best 3 each time, you are only allowed to do
this three times (using the values for your
Int, Wis, and Cha). If you take this feat at 1st
level and use a point-buy for ability scores,
you get only half as many points (round up)
to buy your mental ability scores.

Gestalt
[Horrifically Overpowered]
You are practically a member of two
character classes, rather than just one.
Benefit: Select one character class. You gain
all the class features (proficiencies and abilities
listed in the “special” column of the class writeup)
of that class other than spellcasting, as if half
your total character level was your class level.
(If you are 1st level, gain only the armor and
weapon proficiencies of your selected class until
you reach 2nd level.) If you actually have levels
in the selected class, you gain class features as
if your class level was equal to your actual class
level plus one-half of all your other levels.

Interested. Enough new rules that most of my existing concepts are out, so I am going to poke at them and see what new concepts will shake out. I'll try to have at least an initial concept out by next Wednesday, but I am traveling all weekend so that's tentative.

Sounds good -- I don't think there will be any issue getting into this one if you make a character. I'm just waiting to see if enough people finish to run it.

Thank you for posting them. Reading the full text has given me some ideas, I'll try to assemble the pieces during the weekend.

I am throwing my hat into this ring. Not sure what concept I want to go with yet, I usually play the arcane caster, but I may branch out. I am familiar with about 50% of the optional rules you want to use, but I own the resources, so will figure it out before we start. More to follow when I get a chance to put something together. Holidays, you know...

I think I can build the gestalt I want to try. Going for a Sorcerer-Dragon Disciple/Fighter. Probably Champion/Archmage Mythic though I might go Guardian instead. That's gonna be a lot of feats.

If using Spheres of Power/Might, are we allowed to get Legendary Talents?

yes

Where is Monkey god, and the rest of maga PC team.
Hehe, ok ya got me

Q1: Any 3ed party, would you let in Psionics,
Have an idea of an Elan with an old soul.

psionics is fine

Q2: Templates? can we have them, Max CR? / One side or bothsides of Gestalt?

Q3: With Paragon feats, if you take one, can you then spend points on top, of no, they start at 18 and that it, race/level etc get added but no point spend on them.

Q4: feat Tax rules or not?

Q5: Honor system for classes that use it?

Q2 do you mean archetypes? archetypes yes. templates only if CR + 0 and it makes sense in the story.

q3 -- there's min and max for the starting abilities and so taking one and then spending 25 pts doesn't allow a 30 stat or whatever

q4 no feat tax rules for this one. I'll probably be giving out extra feats along the way, it won't be an issue.

q5 honor is fine

Another question:

Given the Archmage Mythic ability that allows you to cast a spell without spending a slot, how would that affect a Sphere caster? I guess he would just cast a spell without spending spell points, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Wasn't asking a question so much as providing a small amount of commentary on what I saw in the HOF review I found.

50 build points is a LOT. Those 2 HOFs net you 102 build points (6 x 17) of character attributes. Heck, using 1 of those 2 nets you 76 build points (3 x 17 + 25) instead of the 50!

And for a more inclusive review than I found originally look HERE.

Starting to think Nature's Fang Druid/Shifter. The archetype eliminates the big item duplications between the classes (leaving trackless step, a thousand faces, and timeless body as duplicated class features).

Still just playing around with the ideas.

This sounds absurd. I love it. I'll think about options, because these rules allow for a lot of builds and concepts that wouldn't work otherwise.

I'm always interested in your campaigns! However, I am looking for +1 campaign right now. So if the other one doesn't work out, which would be a real pity, then I would happily join this one!