The Age of Progress; A Kingmaker Campaign (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

Riding a horse does not require a ride check. Riding a horse in specific situations does. :) The horse has totally got you until you are: In combat, jumping over a chasm, stabbing a horse with your feet, trick riding, being in a hurry to get on or off... and so on. Even the penalty for 'jumping on or off' quickly is that you just have to do it the slower way if you fail the DC20 check.

Simply riding a horse is +speed, and nothing more, until you have to take an action to dismount. After the first turn, the move action that you would spend getting on and getting off has paid for the extra movement. :)

Also, we could likely find horses in town that don't belong to anyone who is around with a cursory effort, this would allow us to 'use the horses to save their owners' and in the meantime save some animal lives, possibly!

Just went over all the weight listed on the equipment sheet and am reminded again of how utterly nonsensical the Pathfinder strength/weight system is. I have a very high strength and can't carry my armor, my one weapon, and a completely reasonable loadout of equipment? But I can drag more than half a ton?

Makes perfect sense...

I'll figure it out. I guess I just need to invest in Muleback Cords as soon as possible.

@Marcus a master work backpack lets you treat your str as 1 higher for carry cap. Lyon can also carry some things if you want.

Edit: 20 foot radius results in a >120ft field of vision. :)

I think it's important to remember that "light load" is "the amount you can carry effortlessly", not "the amount you can carry".

I don't think it's unreasonable that even a strong character be slowed and encumbered by 15% carrying 100 pounds of gear.

@Aisha, If you wanted you could try and work out watch teams of 2 and have on just aid another on the highest bonus.

Sorry that was meant for Ishana, not Aisha.

Of note, if it affects anything:. Aisha has no intention of sleeping tonight since we are in the wilderness (and understaffed!).

Aisha has only spent one spell slot that won't recover due to lack of sleep and I'm okay with losing that. :)

I don't think it's unreasonable that even a strong character be slowed and encumbered by 15% carrying 100 pounds of gear.

Oh, you're right. That would be a lot of gear.

My dispute is with what Pathfinder thinks things actually weigh.

I used to be a soldier. My full loadout, including body armor, helmet, ammo, tools, overnight gear, extra clothes, water, and a big-ass external frame pack was 108 pounds. I know what that kind of a load feels like.

I'm also a HEMA practitioner. Historic arms and armor is a big hobby for me. The heaviest plate armor ever worn in combat was 59 pounds, and it was for mounted cavalry. Most of the historic plate armor weighed about 30 pounds. I've worn a half-dozen different kinds of plate mail. The suit I own weighs 33 pounds. I can do cartwheels in it.

My exasperation with the listed weights of equipment in Pathfinder is compounded by the fact that every single Iconic character is drawn with weapons and equipment hanging off of every part of them. If you modeled the official art using the encumbrance rules in the game, none of the Iconics would be able to move.

It's a personal gripe with the system. It isn't actually a big deal, and I'm not going to push it. It just sets off my "roll my eyes like Tony Stark" subroutine.

Ha. That's something the artist is actually proud of. That they have all those dangly bits makes it feel like they're actually living in that world.

FWIW, I totally agree that weight totals are weird. Like, clothing having any effect on encumbrance is something I immediately houserule out (for the first set).

You know, in general I actually agree with you - armor seems like it's way too heavy.

Luckily, we're playing in a game where there will be lots of new inventions, so we can in-world have an excuse to houserule all that out.

Maybe people in Golarion are just fond of overly heavy (unnecessarily so) plate armor.

Maybe people in Golarion are just fond of overly heavy (unnecessarily so) plate armor.

Clearly it's all based on dwarven designs, and dwarves don't care about encumbrance.

To solve my weight problems, I'm putting all the stuff I want on an adventure, but don't need "at the ready" (like manacles and chains and stuff) into saddlebags on my horse. I'll update the equipment sheet shortly.

Hey, I'm here with a houserule and a nerf.

The first is regarding aid another. Every character that rolls on the same skill, writes something about what they are doing, and beats a 10, automatically aids the highest roller on that check. If your check is the highest, the other people who are rolling automatically aid you.

If, for example, the DC is 22, the first person rolls a 20, and then you roll a subsequent aid, treat it like your roll was the one that figured it out and go ahead and share the spoiler information.

The nerf is regarding Lyon's double-barreled shotgun - I am changing it so that when she double-shots, she doesn't get to roll double damage dice. It's already comparable to two-weapon fighting (an extra attack with penalties to both attacks) but superior action-economy-wise since it can be done as a standard action. It just doesn't make sense to me that it also does extra damage.

-2d8 is a pretty harsh nerf. Would you be willing to just reduce the damage to 2d4 instead or make the penalty to hit only -2 so she lands more shots even with less damage?

I think not. Compare to a rifle user with Rapid Shot. The rifle user used a feat and spends a FRA every attack action to get one extra attack with -2 penalties to hit.

With the shotgun you dont need a feat, you spend a standard action only, but you take a -4 penalty instead of-2.

Those seem balanced against each other without also doubling the damage dice of the shotgun.

Comparing them to rifles isnt very fair imo since rifles get 80 range, x4 crit, and 4 shots per mag.

Shotguns do more damage but rifles have a lot of other benefits.

Its disappointing to be hit that hard this early but its your game.

I haven't been looking in the spoilers, but I thought I'd ask if all the right rules were being used. (this issue came up in another game and it turned out we were doing things wrong)

Here's what I know-

Firing both barrels requires:
1) Two separate attack rolls
2) Each with a -4 penalty
3) That must both target the same creature

We aren't in combat now, I'm just addressing something that I've noticed - Lyon's damage needs to be nerfed or she's just going to purely dominate all combats. Her damage output compared to HP-per-CR is just too high.

How do you feel about Lyon switching to rifles then? She'll be doing 1d10+mods at level 4, 1d10+mods/x2 with rapid fire at level 5 and 1d10+mods/x3 at level 6.

Those will all be full round actions but I'll have 4 times the range, double the crit, and double the ammo cap of the shotgun.

I'd need a lot of my abilities to switch from shotgun to rifle but they cost exactly the same so it's easy to just swap them.

-

If you'll allow it I'm not entirely sure I want to go with it but with the nerf the only advantage shotguns have is two attacks as a standard instead of a full-round, which won't matter often with 80 range, and scatter, which only works on grouped enemies or enemies with concealment and even then only when friendlies aren't in the aoe.

@Marcus, Yes I've been following those rules.

If you feel it's necessary to make that change, then feel free, but if you're worried about DPR, it won't be improved by switching to rifles.

Remember that you don't actually need to do as much damage as possible, you only need to do enough damage to kill the monster.

Switching to rifles isn't really about improving DPR, it has nearly the same DPR with a ton of other bonuses that make picking shotguns a much worse option in a lot of ways.

It will even save me a mythic ability since I was going to take limitless range on the shotgun.

Damage is kind of all Lyon has right now, martials don't get much in the way of utility and most PoW maneuvers are just reflavored damage or other combat things. Cross classing more would help but most of the warders cool things come in a lot later so it would push that even further behind.

I still need to do some more crunching on it to see if it's worth it.

-

Also did we get enough sleep to reset abilities?

No, it has only been four hours.

Can I reload as part of an attack of opportunity since it's a free action or can I only reload on my turn?

You can only reload on your turn.

Hotaru wants me to keep the shotgun so I won't be changing.

Harrow, how close is the ogre house to where we are camped? How long to get back there?

The ogres are camped out in an inn inside Varnhold. It is a five-to-ten minute walk back to the fort.

Awww yisss. You see that right there? That right there is the 500th post in the thread. The most important post, ever, and it's all mine. First silver star belongs to Aisha!

Let me tell you guys, this pace is fantastic! 250 posts a month is an amazing pace for most threads on these boards, and I certainly hope we can keep it up. Thanks, guys!

Ok, here's the rough draft of my plan-

1) Bear traps. I have 7 of them. We use them at our ambush points.

2) Bait. We wait until one of them comes out, and Ishanna gets it's attention by pretending to be injured and crying quietly for help. When/if it gives chase, she runs around a nearby corner to our first ambush point. Hopefully, we kill it quick and quiet.

3) Someone comes looking for the missing. Rinse repeat step 2. Continue this tactic until things go sideways and more than one enemy comes for us at a time.

4) Dragged by horses. This is our contingency plan in case we end up drawing the attention of more than one at a time. We attach a chain to a bear trap set at [contingency ambush spot], and a length of rope to the chain. The rope is attached to the saddlehorn of my horse. We get a decent rider to wait on the horse, and when they hear/feel the trap go off, they spur the horse. If the bear trap hits its target, one enemy should be out of the fight for at least a few rounds (as long as it isn't the ogre).

5) The Ogre. Tanglefoot bags and bear traps to slow it down. Ranged attacks to soften it up. I have an Oil of Mirror Image that will hopefully help.

6) Bait and Switch. At some point, all the enemies will be out of the house (probably looking for the ogre-kin that we've already killed). Once that happens, we do not engage. The ogres looking for their missing is a great opportunity to circle around, sneak into the house, and find our own lost patrol. Once our people are free, we can engage the rest of the ogres.

General Strategy: Draw them out one at a time and don't let them get close. This fight will be all about harrying tactics. We want to hinder their movement speed and pelt them with ranged attacks. Ideally, we get through this without ever letting them swing at us. I doubt we can pull that off, but it's a good goal.

There's a perception penalty of -1 per 10 feet, so the farther away we can draw them from the house, the less likely it will be that anyone inside will hear the fight.

Thoughts?

So, you're implementing all of these plans, or asking Ishana which of those she thinks are best?

When you return to camp, I'd like an accounting of who you're waking up to recruit and what supplies you're bringing back with you.

Combat will be DC 0 to notice, +5 for through a wall, so it may need to be ~100 feet away to give anyone paying attention a real chance of not noticing.

I plan on using all those plans, with any adjustments Ishanna recommends.

I like the full plan, but I'll admit, I'm a little concerned about Stage 6, since if we sneak inside, and they come back inside (for instance, giving up) it leaves us with limited room to maneuver or escape.

I'd rather whittle down their numbers via Steps 1-5 and then pick our battlefield against the Ogre that has an opportunity to withdraw and re-engage as required.

That is my only concern though, and I'm still happy to proceed with the plan as it currently stands - just my feedback on it.

Sounds good. Step 6 is definitely a potential risk. My thought was that if we can get our people and get out that we might be able to avoid fighting the ogre until the rest of the group gets back. The rescue is the important part.

We can re-evaluate when we get to that point.

Good point. In all honesty though, we might need to defeat the ogre entirely on our own, as we are unlikely to return after hunting Aria for some time - and that kinda leaves the Caravan to fend for itself for a day or two at least.

In agreement that we might need to play this one out as we go.

I'm not super thrilled about Alana deciding to get into melee range right after I specifically told everyone to keep back. If she survives, I might have to yell at her.

She didn't decide, she nat 1'd a Stealth check and fell down from her hiding place.

Sorry if that was unclear.

This is just a general heads up in all my active games.

There was a mass shooting around where I live and work. I'm fine, but my activity might dip over the next few days or so as I might get called into work to handle some overtime as our department occasionally steps in to handle crisis efforts.

GM, bot me as required, but I'll try and stay on top of this as best as I can, it should be just for a few days.

@Ishana oh no! :(

@GM am I correct in assuming that, because this is more of a sandbox-style game, there will be instances of threats/challenges that we are not prepared to face at our current level?

I ask because I've gotten too used to the typical Adventure Path where you're always supposed to go directly towards the dangers you hear about because they're guaranteed to be level-appropriate. XD

@Ishana - Good luck, and I'm glad you weren't affected!

@Kaussek - Yes and no. This is a sandbox-style game, and there are different threats that you can tackle at your leisure. In addition, the different threats are of varying levels of power. Unless it's blatantly obvious that an encounter is not meant to be a combat encounter, I will never place an encounter in front of you which is so difficult that there is no way to defeat it.

By "blatantly obvious", I mean an encounter which has some sort of gimmick like "seal the portal before the Demon Lord breaks through", or "escape through the tunnel while a great wyrm dragon is chasing you".

Also, I will attempt to broadcast the power levels of the various enemies you fight through knowledge and common sense.

You certainly shouldn't charge off towards the plot just because you feel you should, but hopefully your characters have some sort of drive to fix the local problems beyond "my player wants to play the game".

Also, as a GM, I try to be a fan of your characters! I am not the Tomb of Horrors, I am not Gary Gygax, I am not going to kill your character just because you touched some mysterious thing that I decided would deal 20d6 electricity damage to the first person who touched it. My goal as a GM is to support the storyline which you wish to tell. The reason I am trying to set up Aria as being not only mysterious and creepy but also very powerful is to make defeating her feel better, not so that you get too scared to go face her!

I hope that was enough of an answer :D

Yes, that does help. I wasn't sure if "blatantly obvious" included "told that likely higher-level adventurers failed against the target".

This discussion doesn't change Kaussek's argument, but it does help me as player.

Also @Aisha sorry that you're the first one to actually make Kaussek angry, but you touched a nerve.

Oh yeah! That part is an important detail, I'm sure XD

No worries. I've actually been looking forward to someone actually getting angry with Aisha. I just didn't expect it there. :P

I'm at work for a few more hours so I can't respond just yet, though.

Speaking of responding, I'm hoping that the Away Team can use this opportunity to actually have some back-and-forth conversation while I run the combat and set up the next scene. I'm planning to give you a few real-life days to just RP with each other before I get on to the next thing.

Yeah, Kaussek getting angry at Aisha has kind of silently been building over time, but as I thought about what she'd just said and the current situation... well, Kaussek tried to be the hero once before, and all it got him was being stranded in an unfamiliar place with no idea of how to get home again or even if he had a home any more to return to. So the suggestion that he should act like a children's story hero again because that will work out well... yeah, it struck a nerve.

Thank you GM, for handling that surprise round action for me. Next few days are still a bit up in the air but I'll still try and keep the post rate up.

Marcus was 10 feet from the ogre before it ran. After it moved, is it still within 40'

@Marcus - The ogrekin is exactly 40' from Marcus.