Kirthfinder - Sovalles

Game Master Kirth Gersen

Vil-hatarn wrote:

My only remaining quibble is the overlap between at-will sudden shield (gained at 6th level) and the 6th level abjurer's wand ability (1-round shield after eldritch blast).

See edits; you'd be using the Evocation wand ability instead.

Got it. Will keep Unskittering in mind for future Innate Metamagic application.

Also, made my alias. Swapped a couple of feats and skills around, just need to add some basic equipment.

Are there any important languages in the setting beyond what's noted in Ch1? Particularly any that would be related to the study of magic; I figure Kolmac hasn't been away from home long enough to pick up any of the other major humanoid languages, so his last pick (currently Abyssal) would have to have come from his magical studies with his stepmother.

I guess I've made an alias, then.

I'm still feeling massive temptation to play my Vlad Tepes Dracula build, btw. Especially considering how I'd basically only need to switch around my CON and my STR.

I could keep the spells, since Adept is also a divine caster, just like the Archivist (though I might need to drop dimensional skip for something else since I'm loosing the Magic and Time domains). The Adept spell list is anemic, but focusing on seed spells negates most of that anyway, plus the eventual levels in Prestige Specialist help alleviate this somewhat, as do the racial suite of spell like abilities in the Vampire class.

I would also lose access to my feats, but the stat boost from Amberite actually helps a lot here. Specifically, I just need to grab the Skill Synergy racial trait for Sleight of Hand and the increased DEX bonus should get me to the same number anyway (where I can take out material components as a free action). I'd still take Canny Defense as my first level feat, and I'd have an AC of 18 with it, instead of 16.

I would lose my current offense of a +2 to hit, 1d6 force damage ranged attack, which honestly isn't really anything to write home about. In it's place, I'd be forced to likely pick up some weapons to use, but again, the increased stats (and full BAB) provided by the Amberite help a lot here. The build would look like this:

There is still the question of...actually becoming a Vampire though. While creating a Vampire through the Animate Dead can be done as early as say...level 9, when I actually want to take my first level in the class, it basically requires a divine caster or a necromancer with full spell capacity -- something I don't have access to. Even our evoker, were he to try and help, wouldn't be able to legitimately pull this off until level 11 at the earliest.

Theoretically, I could purchase "spellcasting services" if that's still a thing in Kirthfinder, but then we run into another major problem -- I can't control the vampire at all at that level. Even if I max out Command Undead, I can't ever have a follower or a cohort with a CR greater than mine - 3. Since Vampires are CR 9 undead, that means I can't even make an attempt to do anything until level 12 at the earliest.

Course, at that level, the party wizard could probably handle the entire ritual on their own, so there are some perks to waiting. Plus, since I'd have a captive Vampire, they could help me retrain the 4 non-Prestige Specialist levels I'd have to take in order to get to level 12 (which would probably be 4 more levels in Adept, to keep the spellcasting consistent). Before the party inevitably kills them so I'm not under their control, of course. That said, before being turned by said Vampire, the obvious orders via Command Undead will be for the Vampire to obey the party and not attempt to turn me against them or control me in any way. If those orders stand (and aren't subverted like wishes from a djinn), then I'm totally not opposed to letting the Vampire cohort live on.

Of course, then we have the most important factor in all of these considerations -- the rest of the party. I can't accomplish any of this stuff on my own. I would 100% need the party's support in order to pull this build off. So the question is, would the party be okay with an invariably evil Vampire attempting to also become a Lich?

I won't be much help...necromancy is one of my barred schools.

Kolmac, at least early on, would be opposed on principle but could probably be brought around depending on how events unfold.

If we're waiting till level 12, I'm pretty sure I can just grab a scroll of Create Undead (or rather, Augmented Ritual Animate Dead) and use it myself, since it'll definitely be on my spell list (via Prestige Specialist) and caster level seems to be determined by ranks in Concentration rather than Spell Capacity.

But would you want that? An evil Vampire Lich in the party?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it probably wouldn't be too hard for me to hide this stuff until after it happens. I mean, if I'm the main healer of the party, then nobody else needs to invest Heal ranks, and thus nobody else needs to realize why I no longer need to breathe or whatever else have you. Plus, since I have a high Charisma, it shouldn't be too difficult for me to boost my Bluff and Perform (Acting) skill checks to a really high level relative to the rest of the party.

Honestly, the more I think up ways to make this work, the more I want to try and make it work...but I really want to get some feedback from Kirth first. This build...is quite the doozy.

For what it's worth, I'm still planning on being the Team Healer, and I won't force anything on anybody that they don't want (I won't even suggest it, since I'm planning on being all "hush, hush" with this now). While my character will be "evil," he's mostly still paving his road with good intentions. As long as he views the party as still being his companions, I'm sure everything will be fine.

Mostly.

I made an alias for Vlad, too, as it were.

I definitely don't have a problem with Vlad. Dairkal isn't heavily rooted in being a good guy, and can easily be an evil PC instead.

Plus, I love vampires, liches, the undead and Dracula in general lol.

That said, your painter character was also super unique and incredibly interesting, so I'm rather torn.

Hey Kirth,

Is there any sort of favors system in Kirthfinder, or is that handled solely via RP?

In Eshkeval's favor, I don't think I ever selected his human racial trait, meaning that he too can grab a Skill Synergy to boost his skill in Spellcraft and one other skill. With that, he would no longer need to craft the custom painting on his spellbook, and can instead replace it with a more useful bonus...perhaps a +1 enhancement bonus to the owner's intelligence score? That's a swing of +3 on his Spellcraft score, more than enough for my purposes, and with the extra benefit of giving me another skill rank to work with...likely Planar Sense.

Vlad has a strong early game and a great late game, but his mid game really sucks when he's getting a bunch of NPC levels while waiting to be a Vampire. Eshkeval on the other hand, may not have the best early game, but he scales incredibly well due to his spellcasting capacity and actually having class features.

Hmm...maybe I could play both? Play Eshkeval up until 9th level or so, when I could theoretically cast the Create Undead spell, then trade my magical power for the power of darkness? Command Undead would be a problem though, unless I could apply Feat Mastery to it, perhaps?

I really want to hear what Kirth thinks about all of this. If he doesn't think it's a good idea, especially for my first Kirthfinder game, then I'll respect his wishes for this campaign. Eshkeval definitely isn't a bad character, even if his early game offensive presence is somewhat lacking.

I updated and optimized Eshkeval more for a better comparison.

Switched the 17 CHA with the 16 DEX, then used numen to give a +1 enhancement bonus to both my 17 DEX and my 11 INT (1000 each, 2000 total, which is max for this level, if my calculations are correct). The bonuses take the form of self-made magical tattoos, one on each arm.

This gave me another skill (Planar Sense) and Language (Draonic). Also gave myself the Skill Synergy feat from my human racial trait that I had neglected till now, put it in both Sleight of Hand and Spellcraft. This allowed me to also get rid of the Skill Focus feat I took for Sleight of Hand, in favor of Ritual Spell Metamagic.

Because of Ritual Spell Metamagic, I can now prepare a Ritual Dimensional Skip as a 0 level spell, offering immense out of combat mobility to the whole team. My in-combat stats are still kind of lacking, but the support Eshkeval can provide to a party is immeasurable.

Assuming that my use of numen is allowed, then I think this solidifies Eshkeval as a better character all around over Vlad Tepes, and if the party were allowed to vote between the two, I think they'd agree.

So, unless Kirth says that my numen use is improper, I think I'm going to confirm Eshkeval for this game.

I'm still feeling massive temptation to play my Vlad Tepes Dracula build, btw.

You'd be looking at a stake to the heart the next time the sun rose, as soon as someone found out. (The only other PC vampire ended up in hiding in East Balvora, subsisting on raccoons and an occasional lost traveler.) That said, if you're willing to risk the party being exterminated, there's nothing stopping you!

Is there any sort of favors system in Kirthfinder, or is that handled solely via RP?

Both! Some classes (bard, rogue, fighter) have stuff like that either baked into the class progression or available as a talent. Other cases are handled by RP.

So, unless Kirth says that my numen use is improper, I think I'm going to confirm Eshkeval for this game.

Everything you did is rules-legal, so approved. (I'm looking forward to having someone in the game who isn't afraid to look for loopholes -- I feel like the rules got too little destructive playtesting to date.)

Double-check skills math, now that your stats have changed.
Also, please list what's in your prayer book, so we can seep track.

I think I get one extra spell prepared due to a high spellcasting attribute. However, I think I remember reading that all such spells have to come from your list of bonus spells, which in my case, means my domains. Both of my domains have the same first level spell in them - identify, so basically I think this just means that I can cast identify twice.

Don't see it specified anywhere, does Kirthfinder use the standard +1 to an attribute every 4 levels? Kolmac's profile should be good for a final review, just need to add mundane equipment of negligible value.

Don't see it specified anywhere, does Kirthfinder use the standard +1 to an attribute every 4 levels?

Yes

Both of my domains have the same first level spell in them - identify, so basically I think this just means that I can cast identify twice.

You won't be able to cast it at all if you don't add it to your prayer book! (Luckily, it's free, so no worries there.)

We're good to go. Starting situations have been posted in the GAMEPLAY thread.

Sorry for disappearing, and that's fine.

and I'm assuming we're all spoilering our posts

and I'm assuming we're all spoilering our posts

Up to you. Unless proven otherwise, I'm going to assume everyone can keep player knowledge separate from character knowledge.

I accidentally posted as Kaouse instead of Eshkeval, so now Kaouse instead of Eshkeval has been added to the characters tab, oops!

I accidentally posted as Kaouse instead of Eshkeval, so now Kaouse instead of Eshkeval has been added to the characters tab, oops!

I can fix it later on. No worries!

Roughly how far is Paillard? And what town/city is Dair starting in?

Sorry about the over-explanation on the pen design. I just had a really good idea for a magical pen whose drawings become real. I'm fine spending all of my gold on it, especially since my character doesn't need gold for food or anything. Let's say I spent my entire food budget on it. For like, years.

I kind of want the design to have "come to me in a dream" and be related to how I cast my magic. Assume I'd take 20 on Craft Fine Art checks to make a convincing, less useful replica (essentially just those pens with multiple color options), in case anybody else wants it. I will also actively take 10 on Sleight of Hand checks to hide it/replace it with said replicas. Also...

Spellcrafting Metamagic only requires a check of 15 + spell level, not 15 + twice spell level, like I somehow originally thought. Hence, I don't need the extra +1 to INT. Thus, I lose Planar Sense (for now) and my knowledge skills / Spellcraft skill go down by 1. I also loose access to the Bestow Feat seed spell as well as the Draconic language.

In it's place, I switched the 15 WIS and 16 CHA, then added a +1 enhancement bonus to the 15 CHA, making it 16 CHA and 16 WIS. I've altered the skills and every other statistic to be accurate. If I add all of my level up boosts to CHA and get a headband for it, it should still equal my WIS after I obtain the Artistry Bloodline via Eldritch Heritage (26). For now though, Canny Defense is going to go off of Wisdom.

I also added Identify to my list of spells known. :p

Roughly how far is Paillard? And what town/city is Dair starting in?

Paillard is maybe 40 miles NW of Sovalles, which is where you're starting off. Sovalles is shown on the map in Chapter 1; it's the capital city of Aviona's South Province.

Well would you look at that, we wound up in a bar after all.

Well would you look at that, we wound up in a bar after all.

LOL. Well, I tried!

Yeah but we all went to the bar on our own volition (and 2 people are still nowhere to be found near the bar) so I think Kirth's attempt is somewhat of a success, we all naturally came to our reason to be in that tavern.

There's a reason bars and taverns are natural meeting places!

Sorry that I've been gone for a while. I'll make a post later today and try to keep more active now that winter break is over.

Kirth, given Kolmac's recent encounter with elvish customs, is there anything established as far as Northwind customs/real-world cultural analogues that might be useful for me to know?

Sorry for being so quiet myself, I've just been waiting for a spot since the spotlight seems to be on the other place and I don't even know if I could get in.

Though I plan to try

Kirth, given Kolmac's recent encounter with elvish customs, is there anything established as far as Northwind customs/real-world cultural analogues that might be useful for me to know?

Northwind was mostly developed by a long-time co-gamer, while I focused on Aviona, so I'm less of an expert there. For purposes of an on-line game, I don't mind reasonable re-imaginings; I'm fairly lax about continuity.

Sorry for being so quiet myself, I've just been waiting for a spot since the spotlight seems to be on the other place and I don't even know if I could get in.

Yeah, an explanation may be in order there. The main thing is that I try not to railroad the party. When I make up an adventure, I meticulously stat up the major characters/monsters, determine the scenario and how it will proceed with no interference, and then determine how PCs' actions logically change those things, if at all. I try not to tell them how, when, or why they should act, nor artificially curtail their agency through stuff like fudging rolls, bait-and-switch scenarios, ridiculous coincidences, and so on.

In your case, that means forcing myself to not invent a strained reason why Garstang would invite you to his club the same night that Kolmac meets with him (which would be out of character considering that, if his magic force wall houses catch on, you'd lose all his business!).

I guess that's true, and sorry if I've kinda thrown a wrench into things by my actions...

Cayden is just really on edge at the moment still, thinking something along the lines of "Okay SOMETHING is up. I don't know what it is, but I need to know what it is before I pull my hair out in frustration because I haven't slept in like 3 days due to missing children and am paranoid that whatever the baron is doing is making something in the woods angry and causing this."

Not to even mention the fact that Cayden would think the whole "force wall houses" idea would be kinda silly since... maybe I'm wrong but force isn't an insulator. it doesn't retain heat or cold which means that they'd be bitter cold in winter.

Cayden seems grounded in the kind of practicality that the baron (and some of the other party members!) lack.

Well yeah.. I didn't really give him the Wisdom to represent that but he's got that small town down to earth practicality. He believes that things definitely can be pretty, but that function should be put higher than form. If you have something that's pretty, but has absolutely no use then what's the point? (and not to be silly but if he has his own sketches from being an aspiring weapon and armor smith. People would probably notice the fact that his designs are all made with that in mind. Each little artistic flourish is also paired with a practical use.

You know, it never actually mentions how long it takes to create a drawing using Craft: Fine Arts. I know taking 20 multiplies the base time taken by 20, but...what exactly is the base time?

You know, it never actually mentions how long it takes to create a drawing using Craft: Fine Arts. I know taking 20 multiplies the base time taken by 20, but...what exactly is the base time?

That's a good question. From experience, it depends on the medium, and what you're trying to accomplish. I can sketch a cat that's recognizable as a cat in a few seconds, but a big oil painting might take weeks.

Not to bother yall but... Where am I at even.

Just a note to the group - I am traveling on business until Wednesday and may have some delays in posting.

Not to bother yall but... Where am I at even.

You tell me. Has Caden left the bar yet?

Warriorking9001 wrote:

Not to bother yall but... Where am I at even.

You tell me. Has Caden left the bar yet?

Yeah I was heading towards the baron building after kolmac

Yeah I was heading towards the baron building after kolmac

So let's assume you're on the street to witness Aemur and Dairkal meeting. Unless you openly gawk or step up and interject something, the cop won't even notice you, because you're a local and therefore off his radar for now.

Warriorking9001 wrote:

Yeah I was heading towards the baron building after kolmac

So let's assume you're on the street to witness Aemur and Dairkal meeting. Unless you openly gawk or step up and interject something, the cop won't even notice you, because you're a local and therefore off his radar for now.

Well I wasn't trying to openly gawk, I was just heading to the baron's land to see if cay could figure out what is even going on

Well I wasn't trying to openly gawk, I was just heading to the baron's land to see if cay could figure out what is even going on

"The baron's land" is the whole barony -- you're in it.

The building. The building that I'd assume he knows where it is.

OK, see update in game play thread! Please post what you're doing.

No worries on waiting a bit, I expected I was getting ahead a little.