Kirthfinder - Sovalles

Game Master Kirth Gersen

This is a KIRTHFINDER campaign.


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M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Aemur Farstride wrote:
Question on Proficiencies: Aemur traded Medium Armor and shields for the Canny Defense feat. Can he also trade Barbarian proficiencies for Dodge and the Exotic Unarmed Proficiency?

You theoretically could, I suppose. Dodge is great. For you, unarmed really isn't all that, unless you also multiclass monk, who already gets it anyway.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Aemur Farstride wrote:

Aemur is so enraged by the sight of the children’s skeletons that it fills his veins with righteous indignation, driving rational thought from his mind for a moment. As the blind wrath recedes from his mind, he knows he can summon it again at any time; this travesty shall not be forgotten.

2nd level, Multiclassing into Barbarian.
Ouroboros Totem: +2 to K. Planes, Planar Sense

YES! This is exactly the sort of story-based progression I'd been trying to facilitate. Thank you!


Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.

Ey, I chose Racial Heritage (Defiant Luck) for story reasons too, you know. I was originally planning on getting Augment Spell for more metamagic shenanigans, lol.

Eshkeval Level 2, Updated:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Male Human Archivist 2
Init +4; Senses: Perception +3
Languages: Common
AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 13 (+4 Dex, +3 insight)
hp 13 (2 HD; LW 9/HW 3/Dead -14); Hero Points 1 + 1*
Fort +3, Ref +5, Int +6, Will +6
Spd 30 ft.
Melee: dagger +1 (1d4, 19-20)
Ranged: arcane bolt +4 touch (1d6 force)
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 14
Special Atks: channel positive energy 6/day (1d6, DC 14), Lore Keeper (DC 20 Knowledge results by touch)
Domains: Knowledge*, Magic
Spells Known [In Spell Book / Prayer Book]
1st (3 base + 1 Level Up + 2 Domain = 6 total)
--> Bestow Feat
--> Creation
--> Dimensional Skip (Arcane Version)
--> Remove Condition
--> Identify*
--> Precognition*
0 Level (4 seed spells)
--> Attribute Boost
--> Blessing
--> Dispel
--> Wisp

Divine Spells Prepared (CL 2)
1st (DC 14, check +5)— 1(base) + 1(domain) + 1(WIS)
-Identify*
-Precognition*
-<Intentionally Left Blank>

0 (at will, DC 13, check +7)—4
-Extended [-1] Create (Water)
-Extended [-1] Create (Food)
-Ritual [-1] Dimensional Skip
-Ritual [-1] Extended [+1] Blessing

Attributes: Str 10, Dex 17(18), Con 12(14), Int 11(12), Wis 16, Cha 15(16)
SQ: activate scrolls, wands, etc.
Feats: Domain Access (Time)*, Extend Spell*, Canny Defense*, Racial Heritage (Defiant Luck), Skill Focus* (Fine Art), Ritual Spell*, Skill Synergy* (Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft)
Skills: Concentration* (2/+8), Craft* (fine arts) (2/+8), Knowledge* (lore, the planes) (2/+6), Heal (2/+8), Planar Sense (2/+8), Sleight of Hand (2/+8), Spellcraft* (2/+8)

Possessions: PC gear (mojo 3000; min. 780, par 1000): Pen of Creation & Destruction [Holy Symbol], Card Binder [Spell book / Prayer book]
Overflow (2000; max. 3,000): 1000 (+1 Enhancement bonus to DEX)
1000 (+1 Enhancement bonus to INT), 1000 (+1 Enhancement bonus to CHA)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Also, Kolmac, I should probably note that I took Dispel as a seed spell, though I guess having Create Food and Create Water as extended main stays along with Ritual Dimension Skip, I guess I don't really have a lot of space to really make use of it, lol.

That said now that I think about it, I will eventually gain access to the Variant Channeling for the Magic domain, which allows me to dispel/counterspell stuff IIRC, so it is something I could have covered if you wish. I think I also get like, Dispelling Touch as a bonus feat at 8th level or something.

@Kirth,

1 more thing. I had the thought of leaving one of my spell slots blank and then preparing it during the day so I could better make use of stuff like Restore Condition or Bestow Feat.

But then I realized that there doesn't appear to be rules for such a thing in the Cleric/Archivist section, nor in the Wizard section, nor even the Spells section. Is it actually possible to partially prepare spells for the day and leave a spell blank in Kirthfinder?


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Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.
Cayden Moore wrote:


For my Combat feat, I've picked a few options, but am not sure which of them to go for. would yall have any advice on it?
1: Inspirational victory
2: Combat Reflexes
3: Improved Critical
4: Power Attack
5: Rallying Strike

I (personally) don't place a lot of weight in damage boosters like Inspirational Victory and I place infinitely less weight on ones focused around crits like Improved Critical. Power Attack is the best of the three since it's the least conditional, but I really feel like damage isn't something you have to worry about as a Kirthfinder Fighter, IMHO.

Between the Heal skill, Take a Breather, and Channel Energy, I think we're fine for now, so Rallying Strike might not be needed, though it's certainly not a bad feat, IMHO.

Combat Reflexes is really good, especially with Kirthfinder's revised action system. You should definitely take it at some point IMHO (doesn't have to be right now if you have something else better in mind). Remember, you can hold part of your movement or attacks to use out of turn with immediate actions. And you do still get attacks of opportunity on top of that. Given you are our Vanguard Tank, being able to stop multiple people from directly reaching the squishier members of our party is pretty darn useful, I'd say.

Quote:

Also, I'm a bit concerned about the fact that I have very little I can do outside of a fight (I mean if there's ever an Animal or Person you need someone to like, I'm your guy for that, or if you need some warfare knowledge.) How might I be able to remedy this and make sure that I'm always able to help?

Diplomacy is basically low level mind control. I'm not even joking, stuff like Suggestion or Charm Person have basically been replaced with Diplomacy buffs IIRC, so feel free to abuse this as much as possible.


Male Halfling Rogue 2

I don't fully understand numen and the WBL for Kirthfinder. Can somebody give me a simplified, layman's terms crash course?

It's why Dair only has a rogue's kit(plus his combat gear), as I didn't really get the system.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:

I don't fully understand numen and the WBL for Kirthfinder. Can somebody give me a simplified, layman's terms crash course?

It's why Dair only has a rogue's kit(plus his combat gear), as I didn't really get the system.

I'll give it a shot. The key number is 'par' for your level (1000 gp at 2nd)--this is your 'target' WBL. Whenever the value of your gear falls below par, you are entitled to acquire, discover, or upgrade magic items of your choice until you reach par. This does not require Craft skills, magical ability, or access to a 'magic mart'; a previously mundane item can be discovered to actually have magical properties, or an item can grow in power as you do. Essentially, this system cuts out treasure acquisition and liquidation in favor of simply allowing characters to have a reasonable quantity of magical gear that suits them.

Where it becomes slightly complicated is overflow. Crafted items or treasure found in the course of an adventure do not count against your regular numen and the par limit and are tallied separately. This is roughly speaking the gap between your expected wealth when you first reach the level vs. expected wealth as you reach the next level.

Your maximum numen is the sum of your par and overflow values. You are allowed to exceed max numen in the short term, but by doing so you accept that at some point in the near future something will happen (GM's discretion) to bring your total numen back under max.

You can ignore minimum numen--its purpose is to define the line between what Pathfinder calls PC vs. NPC WBL; creatures with numen below min. have their CR reduced.

I'd recommend tracking your par and overflow items in separate rows, something like:
Possessions (numen 900, par 1000): weapon (+1 attack), boots (+10 speed)
Overflow (numen 1000, max 3000): +1 armor


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Eshkeval, the Card Archivist wrote:

Also, Kolmac, I should probably note that I took Dispel as a seed spell, though I guess having Create Food and Create Water as extended main stays along with Ritual Dimension Skip, I guess I don't really have a lot of space to really make use of it, lol.

That said now that I think about it, I will eventually gain access to the Variant Channeling for the Magic domain, which allows me to dispel/counterspell stuff IIRC, so it is something I could have covered if you wish. I think I also get like, Dispelling Touch as a bonus feat at 8th level or something.

It's not the worst seed to have a backup for, if one of us gets hit with an entangle effect or the like. I'm also just not that enthused for the other 0-level effects available, and it feels right for a wizard with a heavy abjuration focus. I may take a pass on Improved Counterspell knowing that you have that variant channeling option, though--let's keep it in mind so we don't put too many resources into redundant abilities.


M Half Dwarf Ranger Barbarian 2 | HP: 16 | AC: 17 | FF: 16 | TAC: 14 | Saves: F: +2 | R: +2 | I: +3 | W: +0 | CMD: 16 | Init: +0 | Per: +5 (Eagle Eyes) | DV 70' | Speed: 30' | Alertness +1 | See Ethereal 10’
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:

I don't fully understand numen and the WBL for Kirthfinder. Can somebody give me a simplified, layman's terms crash course?

It's why Dair only has a rogue's kit(plus his combat gear), as I didn't really get the system.

Kolmac lays it out pretty well. The only thing I will add is to read Chapter 7 on numen, because there are a few changes to how things are costed from normal Pathfinder. As one of the biggest examples, at will magical effects are (typically) 1/2 to 1/4 the normal cost. Another big change is that many bonuses have to be bought explicitly as bonuses; if a spell gives those same bonuses, you cannot just buy a use-activated version of that spell.


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Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:

I don't fully understand numen and the WBL for Kirthfinder. Can somebody give me a simplified, layman's terms crash course?

It's why Dair only has a rogue's kit(plus his combat gear), as I didn't really get the system.

Numen is basically Wealth By Level, only separated from actual gold (allowing you to basically be wealthy and own stuff like land and titles without having to trade that stuff for better gear).

What really makes Numen better though, is that you can basically buy anything with it, from basic bonuses to constant spell effects, even feats etc. Furthermore, any item can have any bonus, with zero penalties for stacking multiple bonuses on the same item.

Numen is separated into 3 separate values: Min, Par and Maximum.

Below Min makes you considered CR - 1 (which you currently are, I believe). It's basically NPC wealth.

Par is generally where you should be as a PC, and if you are below this number, then you can basically "will" items into existence that make up the difference. Nothing else is needed for this ability. This is what you can and should do right now.

Maximum is Par + Overflow. Taking advantage of Overflow numen is the main advantage of Crafting (which no longer halves costs). No feat is necessary if you have ranks in the skill. That said, whatever item you build to give you bonuses must have some relation to the Craft skill being used, and must be authorized by the GM.

Going above Maximum numen is possible (mainly with found items/gear), but whatever item brings you above that amount will inevitably be lost due to story/plot reasons. This allows you to use artifacts and any GM-granted item to accomplish specific goals, but after those goals are attained, say goodbye to the artifact.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Eshkeval, the Card Archivist wrote:
But then I realized that there doesn't appear to be rules for such a thing in the Cleric/Archivist section, nor in the Wizard section, nor even the Spells section. Is it actually possible to partially prepare spells for the day and leave a spell blank in Kirthfinder?

Yes, you can. I'll check the prepared spells rules on Monday and update them as needed. Thanks!


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Male Halfling Rogue 2

Looking over the rogue skills, I really gotta applaud Kirth on not only the concept of bonus skills(which is genius), but also on the fact that they have some skills that are generally seen as non standard for a rogue.

Since we're dealing with a demon lord and his unholy symbol, plus some undead, I'm going to be giving Dair a rank in knowledge(the planes), planar sense and spellcraft.

I do have one question however: How come Sleight of Hand isn't one of the rogue's bonus skills??


Male Halfling Rogue 2

1d8 ⇒ 8 HP roll.

Level up

Rogue 2.

Saves: Fort +1, Ref+6, Intuition+2, Will+5

Attacks: Rapier+5, Throwing Dagger+3.

Base Attack+1, CMB+3.

Skills: Bluff+9, Diplomacy+9, Disable Device+8, Escape Artist+8, Linguistics+8, Lore+7, The Planes+7, Perception+7, Planar Sense+6, Sleight of Hand+8, Spellcraft+7, Stealth+14, Streetwise+9.

Skill Trick: Mage Hand

General Rogue Talent: Trapfinding.

Evasion.

***********

Questions:

I took another rank in Linguistics, which I *believe* gets me a new language spoken(but not written). Any suggestions as to which one would make sense? Dair currently knows: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, High Elvish.

Is it possible for him to gain a +1 to Wis via the numen system? If so, I think I want to do that, as I feel Dair's awareness of the larger world/cosmos around is growing.


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M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:

Looking over the rogue skills, I really gotta applaud Kirth on not only the concept of bonus skills(which is genius), but also on the fact that they have some skills that are generally seen as non standard for a rogue.

Since we're dealing with a demon lord and his unholy symbol, plus some undead, I'm going to be giving Dair a rank in knowledge(the planes), planar sense and spellcraft.

I do have one question however: How come Sleight of Hand isn't one of the rogue's bonus skills??

Most bonus skills are necessary for the class to function e.g. Perception for the rogue so they can benefit from the free Alertness feat, or Concentration for spellcasters since it stands in for caster level. Sleight of Hand, while certainly a very useful skill for a rogue, isn't strictly necessary, and you could feasibly come up with a rogue character that doesn't use it.


Male Halfling Rogue 2

Sure, but then, you could feasibly come up with rogues that don't need/use bluff, escape artist, stealth or streetwise, no?


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Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.

Streetwise? Nope. It's what Rogues use for their Network of Contacts / Leadership ability. Bluff and Stealth can both be used to enable sneak attack. Escape Artist...I guess you could say it enables Evasion, though I admit that one is a little bit reaching.

Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:
Is it possible for him to gain a +1 to Wis via the numen system? If so, I think I want to do that, as I feel Dair's awareness of the larger world/cosmos around is growing.

All you have are cheap items like a Rogue's Kit and a weapon, right?

If so, these should count as mundane items, purchasable by actual gold rather than numen. If that's the case, then you have just enough numen to purchase a +1 to a stat (LVL 2 Par = 1000). Enhancement Bonus to Attribute Scores = 1000 * (Bonus^2).


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M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:
I do have one question however: How come Sleight of Hand isn't one of the rogue's bonus skills??

Athletics and Disable Device and Spellcraft aren't, either, despite being iconic -- I still wanted rogues to have some meaningful skill choices. Am I a cat burglar? Or a pickpocket? Etc. Escape Artist is the opposite of "need it to do your job" -- it's more "everyone always forgets to take this because of all the other more pressing choices, so give it out as a freeby."


Male Human Fighter 2

Okay, so my HP ACTUALLY goes up by 7, so I'm looking at 18. nice (though I don't know how to calculate the wound stuff)

And though I feel like something to protect allies would be a better choice, I'll go for Improved Critical so that I can really start to see my damage go up. though I'd wonder if perhaps it was a little more useful for later levels as well.

For background skills, I definitely think that some Construction would be good.. although I thought my background skill was Craft smithing.

also does my sheet look right?


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M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

I think the background point per level can be assigned as desired, it's not treated like the class bonus skills. Or you can take Smithing as your regular background rank and then spend a skill point for Construction, if you want both.


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Male Halfling Rogue 2

From what I can tell, and I could totally be wrong so apologizes if that's the case, but it seems your skills are off.

You get 4 free ranks, in Athletics, Endurance, Knowledge (warfare), and then 1 rank in a background skill(4 total).

You also get 4+Int in skills to place as you like, though with your 9 in Int, you get only 3. You have Diplomacy and Handle Animal, which means I **believe** you should have 2 ranks to spare.

Assuming I'm right, and again, I may be completely wrong, you should have 7 skill ranks per level or 14 total, including the -1 from your Int.

Also, while Improved Critical is great, at our level, you only get the +4 to confirm crits, meaning you still need to roll that natural 19 or 20.

Power Attack automatically adds damage, though at a small cost to hit, however the Fighter quickly offsets that.

It's up to you, of course, but I would take PA now, and Improved Crit later.


Male Halfling Rogue 2

Hey Kirth, this might be a dumb question but I couldn't find an answer when I looked over the introduction:

Does Kirthfinder use the PF rate of feats when leveling(ie, every odd) or the 3.x(ie 1 per 3) or something different?

Are ability score increases still gained at a rate of 1 per 4 levels?


Male Human Fighter 2

I thought with skills that I was just bumping the skills I already had by 1, since I'd get 3 normally so I'd bump the ones I bought with those, and the 4 I get from my class... but I might've messed up the math.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

Yeah, looks like Dair has it right. You get Athletics, Endurance, and Knowledge (warfare) = level for free, plus 3 regular and 1 background skill point per level, so you should have a total of 14 skill ranks after leveling: 6 automatic, 2 secondary, and 6 that can go anywhere. I do see a stray "+1" with no skill listed on your profile, maybe it got lost somewhere along the way?


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M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:

Hey Kirth, this might be a dumb question but I couldn't find an answer when I looked over the introduction:

Does Kirthfinder use the PF rate of feats when leveling(ie, every odd) or the 3.x(ie 1 per 3) or something different?

Are ability score increases still gained at a rate of 1 per 4 levels?

Same as PF for both, I asked a while back.


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Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.
Cayden Moore wrote:
Okay, so my HP ACTUALLY goes up by 7, so I'm looking at 18. nice (though I don't know how to calculate the wound stuff)

18 HP = Max HP

9 HP </= 1/2 of Max HP = Lightly Wounded = Fatigued = -1 to everything
4 HP </= 1/4 of Max HP = Heavily Wounded = Exhausted = -3 to everything


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:

Hey Kirth, this might be a dumb question but I couldn't find an answer when I looked over the introduction:

Does Kirthfinder use the PF rate of feats when leveling(ie, every odd) or the 3.x(ie 1 per 3) or something different?

Are ability score increases still gained at a rate of 1 per 4 levels?

Updated Ch 1. Feat every odd level, attribute +1/4 HD.

Also, fixed the text on preparing spells, and the erratum for Reach spell, in the master docs. Will re-upload soon. Thanks, all!


Male Human Fighter 2
Kolmac wrote:
Yeah, looks like Dair has it right. You get Athletics, Endurance, and Knowledge (warfare) = level for free, plus 3 regular and 1 background skill point per level, so you should have a total of 14 skill ranks after leveling: 6 automatic, 2 secondary, and 6 that can go anywhere. I do see a stray "+1" with no skill listed on your profile, maybe it got lost somewhere along the way?

Also I tihnk my modifiers may be totally off now that I look at it... Athletics would add my strength and the +3 for it being a class skill, right?

and... Yeah I think I might've only grabbed 2 skills rather than 3 when I started.. what should that third skill be then? (I can't quite remember what the fighter skills ARE)


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Cayden Moore wrote:
(I can't quite remember what the fighter skills ARE)

Either check out the Google docs, or remember that a much-expanded list of skills are now class skills for Fighters. Having in a previous life both trained as a fighter and joined the military, I can say from experience that some skills are a "given," and that the 3.5/PF choices are FAR too limited...


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Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.

Fighter Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft (any), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (linguistics), Perception, Perform, Profession (any), Spellcraft, Survival.

Consider Perform (Act), perhaps? It's the new Disguise, and that might be useful in a scenario where we might have to hide from the Baron, or go under cover in order to obtain more information.

Alternatively, Bluff probably works. It IS a super useful skill now, subsuming Intimidate and Sense Motive into itself, afterall. I would just assume that Dairkal already has Bluff covered. If not though, I'd heavily advise on getting Bluff, which together with Diplomacy makes you our party face.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

If and when we get to high levels, a fighter with maxed out Bluff and the Staredown feat pretty much runs the game. Hardly anyone is willing to fight you, and if they do, they likely either join your side, flee outright, or stand there gibbering while you mow them down.


Male Halfling Rogue 2

My suggestion? Take Construction as your 'missing' skill from level 1, and maybe consider Perception? While Dairkal has the highest modifier for that(I believe), there's no such thing as too many PCs with that skill. It will also give you that much more of a boost should you need to aid Dair(or another PC) on Perception checks.

Regarding Bluff/Diplomacy, I have both of them maxed out, and an 18 Cha for +9 to each.

Not that another PC can't also have those skills, just that we might wanna spread our abilities out some more.

Having Cayden take Perception means he'll have the 3rd highest(I think) with a +4, allowing him to be the eyes and ears should Aemur and Dair split off again.

Edit Survival would also be an awesome choice, though Aemur and Kolmac both have ranks in that too. However, much my like my above suggestion with Perception, you'll get a bigger boost to helping aid others, and it's also not a bad skill to have at least 1 rank in, if you can swing it.


Male Halfling Rogue 2
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:


Questions:

I took another rank in Linguistics, which I *believe* gets me a new language spoken(but not written). Any suggestions as to which one would make sense? Dair currently knows: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, High Elvish.

This mighta gotten lost in the discussion of numen, but any suggestions from either Kirth or the other PCs?


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:


Questions:

I took another rank in Linguistics, which I *believe* gets me a new language spoken(but not written). Any suggestions as to which one would make sense? Dair currently knows: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, High Elvish.

This mighta gotten lost in the discussion of numen, but any suggestions from either Kirth or the other PCs?

Not sure how events will go. You've covered all the obvious ones. Abyssal? Wood Elf? I dunno.


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M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:
Dairkal Nimblecloak wrote:


Questions:

I took another rank in Linguistics, which I *believe* gets me a new language spoken(but not written). Any suggestions as to which one would make sense? Dair currently knows: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, High Elvish.

This mighta gotten lost in the discussion of numen, but any suggestions from either Kirth or the other PCs?

I've got Abyssal and Draconic so far. Probably makes sense to leave the 'academic' languages to Kolmac and Eshkeval, and you can pick up anything of a more 'conversational' bent. Looks like you have the racial bases covered except for Wood Elf, or Orc...or you could go farther afield and add Aramnic, or Oeridian (see p20 of Intro chapter re: shipments of grain from Greyhawk).

For Cayden, it's not a bad idea to put 1 skill point into most of your class skills over the first few levels in order to take advantage of the +3 trained bonus. Survival is definitely one where some redundancy is not a bad thing, and Kolmac's skill in it is mostly limited to Aid checks and I'm not likely to invest much more in it unless it's called for.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

Puzzling over some spell constructions as I consider my options. Is it legal to convert a target spell such as bind to a ray with Shape Spell? Specifically trying to work out some of the Bigby's Hand variants that combine damage and status effects; with bolt of force as the seed, it's quite advantageous for me to use rays where possible but it's not clear to me what that means for resolution of the status effect, particularly once Fell Entangling or Lingering Evocation are added on.


Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.

Eshkeval will eventually gain the Rune Domain at level 5, which gives him Linguistics as a bonus skill. He'll probably focus on the "planar" languages, I guess. He is a divine caster afterall, so it makes sense.

As for combining damage and status effects...looks like you want Cascade Spell, Kolmac. Though I guess the Fell Metamagic line also works if you want to focus on a specific effect with all of your spells. Cascade Spell is just a bit more versatile, though.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

Cascade Spell will be crucial for high-level spell construction. I'll likely make use of Fell Entangling, but it's not worth spending a feat slot--I'll just spend the numen to buy pre-modified Fell bind, Fell grapple, and Fell pin. Fell Blinding is the only other one I can use (Necromancy barred school), but I think I prefer the fail case of entangled over dazzled, even if blinded is somewhat stronger than grappled.

The part I'm grappling with is ray vs. target/AoE spells; my stats and my class bonuses favor rays over anything that allows saving throws (also why the Fell line is attractive), but I want to make sure I'm more than just a glass cannon in the long run. For now, blasting will do...thanks to Warmage my damage output is close to a whole caster level ahead of the curve for the first few levels.


Male Halfling Rogue 2

I'm considering grabbing a new class next level. I was possibly considering a caster(unsure which class exactly), but I gotta admit these spell construction convos scare me off of them! I just like me my normal casters casting normal spells, lol.

I might actually go Fighter, as that will help Dair be more effective in combat, which is always welcome.

However, it also nets me Warlord eventually, which combined with Network of Contacts and Leadership(assuming Kirth is cool with my having all 3) would give Dairkal a rather sizable 'army' at his command, lol


Male Human Archivist 2 | HP: 13 | AC/FF/T: 17/13/17 | Saves: F +3 | R +5 | I +6 | W +6 | CMD: 15 | Init: +4 | Per: +3 | See Ethereal: 10 ft.

You'd need to have 10 levels of Rogue for Network of Contacts as well as 9 levels of Fighter for Warlord. Not impossible to make work, especially with all of the Multiclass Synergy in Kirthfinder, but I personally prefer the benefits of just staying in a single class all the way to the end.

That said, I don't really think anyone needs to dip into a martial class to be more effective in combat. I'd suggest just taking a look at all of the feats that are available to you, and quite a few of them should make it easier to hit and deal damage if that's what you're after. Remember that thanks to your Combat Opportunist ability, you basically count as full BAB for the purposes of combat feats and the like.

And if you would like to dabble in spellcasting but don't want to deal with all of the spellcasting rules, may I suggest the feats, Magical Talent, and Magical Talent Array, to get spell-like abilities on demand? Depending on your choice for spells, you could also drastically increase your combat ability.

But these are just my suggestions.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Kolmac wrote:
Is it legal to convert a target spell such as bind to a ray with Shape Spell?

Yes. Appendix 8A has quite a few examples of "Shape Spell (ray to target; +0 levels)," and the reverse is also legit.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Kolmac wrote:
Is it legal to convert a target spell such as bind to a ray with Shape Spell?
Yes. Appendix 8A has quite a few examples of "Shape Spell (ray to target; +0 levels)," and the reverse is also legit.

So what would be the effect of, say, a ray of bind with fell entangle applied (envisioning something like a force lasso)? Does hit/miss just stand in for a failed/passed save? Or is there no effect on a miss, rendering the fell modifier useless?


Male Human Fighter 2

Fighter Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft (any), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (linguistics), Perception, Perform, Profession (any), Spellcraft, Survival.

Okay so...
Athletics 2, Endurance 2, Knowledge (warfare) 2, (figuring out the modifiers on these later)

1 background skill which I put into Craft (Metallurgy/smithing). hoping to eventually use it to learn how to craft magical weapons.

2 skill points from fighter which I believe I originally put into Handle Animal and Diplomacy because I was hoping to find a way to be the sort of Heroic Charmer (although I don't remember exactly why I grabbed handle animal)

And I think my missing skill was from humans getting an extra skill point.

Also on the topic of multiclassing I'm admittedly slightly tempted to do something with it eventually, just so I can get a bit of extra utility and squeeze a bit more use out of that Charisma score, but I don't really know any good story reason that he'd end up in any of the charisma casters, and Paladin uses one specific God in setting.)


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

You should have 3 from fighter, it's 4+Int. You appear to be missing the racial skill point entirely (assuming you took Open Minded--note that Kirthfinder humans have a number of alternate options to the skill point). That would take you to 16 total ranks. Also, it doesn't look like you've specified your human racial trait.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3
Kolmac wrote:

Fell Blinding is the only other one I can use (Necromancy barred school), but I think I prefer the fail case of entangled over dazzled, even if blinded is somewhat stronger than grappled.

Scratch that, Fell Blinding is Necromancy. Reviewing spell options for ways to target a defense other than Reflex or touch AC (high Dex is my worst enemy), given Enchantment and Necromancy as barred schools, all I'm seeing are inertia, which has minimal effects at low levels, and light augmented for blinding, which appears to allow Reflex instead of Fortitude vs. bright flash effects e.g. flare.

I think the best I can do with light, using flare as a guide, is the following:
blinding halo: 2nd level, range medium, blinds target 1 round/level, Fortitude negates. Augment (blinding light) +4, reach (touch to medium) +1, extend (light 10 min/level to 1 round/level) -2, extend (blinding 1 round to 1 round/level) +1, shape (emanation to target) -2.

Compares favorably to Kirthfinder's blindness/deafness at 3rd level as per Variable Spell. Making the light instantaneous reduces to 1st level, but changes the save from Fort to Reflex (is that really worth a whole spell level? Answer may be yes, comparable to sonic/force vs other energy types). As a side note, flare as written can get a free upgrade from close to medium range, as it has multiple +1 metamagic modifiers.

EDIT: For another comparison, see shadow veil in the spells compendium; would be 1st level if extended to 1 round/level, Intuition negates. Except I believe alter senses is only allowed to inflict blindness with the Accursed Spell metamagic?


Male Human Fighter 2
Kolmac wrote:
You should have 3 from fighter, it's 4+Int. You appear to be missing the racial skill point entirely (assuming you took Open Minded--note that Kirthfinder humans have a number of alternate options to the skill point). That would take you to 16 total ranks. Also, it doesn't look like you've specified your human racial trait.

Okay so...

Athletics 2 (+9), Endurance 2 (+6), Knowledge (warfare) 2 (+4),

1 background skill which I put into Craft (Metallurgy/smithing). hoping to eventually use it to learn how to craft magical weapons. 2 (+4)

3 skill points from fighter which I will put into Diplomacy, Perception (hopefully swapping out handle animal doesn't seem to metagamey, but I also realize that a blacksmith might not quite have the knowledge to soothe a wild beast), and craft (construction) (Though he mostly made the materials for buildings, he probably gleaned a lot of information on how buildings were made from seeing plans, and did plenty of odd jobs)

For my human racial trait I'm between Hard Worker and Heart of the Wilderness, Hard Worker would be more fitting to his backstory but I'd need to know more about what skill synergies I can actually select.

Also just realized that if I already have Personal Weapon that I shouldn't have needed to spend the 400 numen on a masterwork weapon.. right? (again not metagaming, just noticing)


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

Okay, I see you have Defiant Luck, so you have that instead of Open Minded (which would have given the extra skill point). So skills look good.

Heart of the Wilderness is certainly handy for a fighter, though the flavor doesn't quite seem to fit? For Skill Synergy, I believe the intent is that you can pick any two skills as long as you can offer a reasonable explanation for why they're related; choices might include your two Craft skills (to offset the Int penalty), or Athletics and Endurance, or even Diplomacy and Knowledge (warfare) (something something commanding presence?). However, I might suggest you consider either Sociable, to make better use of your impressive Diplomacy bonus, or Bestow Luck for a bit of 'heroic leader' flavor.


M Human Wizard 2 | HP: 12 | AC/T/FF: 16/11/15 | Saves: F +2 | R +2 | I +6 | W +5 | CMD: 12 | Init: +1 | Per: +3

Verification regarding numen cost of metamagic feats: an item granting knowledge of a metamagic feat (essentially a reference text) would cost 2000 numen x 2x the metamagic cost (i.e. ranks in Concentration required for the feat), right? So, for example, a tome of Fell Binding would cost 4000 numen, and allow me to apply Fell Binding during spell preparation?


Male Human Fighter 2
Kolmac wrote:

Okay, I see you have Defiant Luck, so you have that instead of Open Minded (which would have given the extra skill point). So skills look good.

Heart of the Wilderness is certainly handy for a fighter, though the flavor doesn't quite seem to fit? For Skill Synergy, I believe the intent is that you can pick any two skills as long as you can offer a reasonable explanation for why they're related; choices might include your two Craft skills (to offset the Int penalty), or Athletics and Endurance, or even Diplomacy and Knowledge (warfare) (something something commanding presence?). However, I might suggest you consider either Sociable, to make better use of your impressive Diplomacy bonus, or Bestow Luck for a bit of 'heroic leader' flavor.

one point at a time.

1: Yeah, Heart of the Wilderness doesn't fit the flavor since I'd assume heart of the wilderness would be the ones that spend most of their time away from civilization, hunters, trackers, those who need to survive for weeks or months at a time.
2: yeah bestow luck would probably make some sense for what I'm trying to do. Handing out Inspiration to others.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Cayden Moore wrote:
Paladin uses one specific God in setting.

Only one (dead) god's temple grants Paladinhood; past that, the paladin can worship any good god he wants, or none.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Kolmac wrote:
So what would be the effect of, say, a ray of bind with fell entangle applied (envisioning something like a force lasso)? Does hit/miss just stand in for a failed/passed save? Or is there no effect on a miss, rendering the fell modifier useless?

This is something I'd need to think on, as touch attack no-save effects can get stoopid crazy later in the game. So far, I'd been keeping the save allowed, since you're normally piggybacking on another ray -- something like "ranged touch for 5d6 acid (no save) plus sickened 1 rd./level (Fort 1 rd.)."


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Kolmac wrote:
Fell Blinding is the only other one I can use (Necromancy barred school), but I think I prefer the fail case of entangled over dazzled, even if blinded is somewhat stronger than grappled.

I'm thinking of combining all the "Fell X" feats into Fell Condition, and then you'd select the condition track when you picked the feat. So Fell Blinding becomes Fell Condition [vision], and you'd use dazzled by itself (1 rd. vs. multiple if save failed), or dazzled and blinded as your two condition levels. Then there wouldn't be a school requirement.

Quote:

I think the best I can do with light, using flare as a guide, is the following:

blinding halo: 2nd level, range medium, blinds target 1 round/level, Fortitude negates. Augment (blinding light) +4, reach (touch to medium) +1, extend (light 10 min/level to 1 round/level) -2, extend (blinding 1 round to 1 round/level) +1, shape (emanation to target) -2.

Light (0 level) + Reach Spell (touch to medium; +2 levels) + Augment Spell (blinding; +4 levels) + Extend Spell (light: 10 min./level to 1 rd./level; -2 levels) + Extend Spell (blindness: 1 rd. to 1 rd./level; +1 level) + Shape Spell (emanation to target; -2 levels) = 3rd level, not 2nd. Your fist metamagic adjustment gets no discount; only subsequent ones (assuming they're highter than a +1 adjustment). In your case, to get it to 2nd level, you'd have to Reach the range to Close (+1 level), rather than Medium (+2 levels). Order of operations counts.

Quote:
As a side note, flare as written can get a free upgrade from close to medium range, as it has multiple +1 metamagic modifiers.As a side note, flare as written can get a free upgrade from close to medium range, as it has multiple +1 metamagic modifiers.

Nope. There are no free upgrades; the minimum metamagic cost is +1 level.

Quote:
Except I believe alter senses is only allowed to inflict blindness with the Accursed Spell metamagic?

Nope. It can inflect them outright, but Accursed Spell lets you get a hefy numen discount on making the condition permanent instead of temporary.

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