Tides of Destruction (Inactive)

Game Master Bane88

A group of skilled operators take the fight to the Orcs in the Hold of Belkzen.

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Welcome to the shining city of Vigil. It is here that the Watcher-Lords of Lastwall have stood for 900 years against the hordes of Belkzan and kept a stoic watch on the dangerous lands to the north that house the tomb-prison of the Whispering Tyrant.

A young and enigmatic leader has assumed the mantle of Watcher-Lord, Ulthun the 2nd a paladin of Iomedae elected by the Precentors Martial for his chivalry and righteousness.

The millennia long war against the Orc hordes have been marked by a slow retreat. After four hundred years, the many fortressed Sunwall was over run, its brilliant castles now occupied by the same Orcs it repelled for centuries. The second line, Harchist’s barricade held for nearly two hundred years until it too was overrun. The third line established was the crude Hordeline, an earthen rampart with logs hacked into spikes. It fell the same year it was constructed, now for the last century, Lastwall has held the line several miles south of the North Path River.

For the last five years, there has been an influx of money and soldiers to Lastwall, bolstering the tiny nation’s numbers significantly, whether they come to fight Orcs or train in the prestigious Crusader War College. Ulthun and his Generals have decided to use this good fortune to make a push back into Belkzan, hopefully regaining the Sunwall and maybe wiping the Orc scourge from the face of Golarion forever. It is being called the Second Shining Crusade.

It is under this pretense that a declaration has come from Lastwall, hung in pubs and announced by city criers all across the Inner Sea calling for all those who would fight to bring safety to the world and protect the common folk. Heroes will be forged and legends created.

You have heard rumors that the real reason is a more desperate and dangerous one. You've heard the Orcs are stirring, some say massing. No one knows why and you're unsure if it's just the talk of pub gossips.

In small print near the bottom of the notices it mentions 5 gold a day for mercenaries and skilled fighters who have no wish to take the knight's oath. The Request says that all who wish to join should be to Vigil by the last day of Summer, which to your reckoning is about a month away.

Campaign Style: The people chosen for this game will likely be grouped into a type of special forces recon unit sent into Belkzen to operate alongside and apart from the main crusade force, dispatching foes, uncovering intelligence and so forth.

Character Creation:
Characters start at 3rd level with wealth by level as appropriate.

Alignments: Any but be warned that Lastwall is a particularly "Paladiny" Nation and any overtly super evil people would likely not get a ton of help if not be down right killed if they go all murder spree. Then again, if you can't torture an Orc, how are you supposed to get information? Am I right?

Sources: Most Paizo and ask about 3rd party.

House Rules: I will allow Inherited templates at creation on a 1 cr for 1 level rate so long as I approve the template. In game, a player can earn the ability to purchase acquired templates at a rate of CR * 20,000xp. IE a CR +2 Template costs 40,000xp. Also must have my approval and fit with the story. None of that, "Suddenly, I'm a Vampire." jazz.
A word about prereq feats aka feat tax. If your ability score for the first feat in a common chain (Power attack, Combat Expertise, Precise Shot etc) Exceeds the required amount by 3 at the start of the game, you can have that feat for free. Example a Level 3 Fighter with 18 Strength, is awarded Power Attack without it counting towards his purchased feats.

Ability Scores: 20 point Buy on a 1 for 1 basis. No stat over 18 before racial modifiers.

HP: Full for first three levels. Bonus roll after that( Bonus roll means that you can roll to try and get higher but can never get lower than half your hit dice. IE a d6 class is guaranteed 3+con but can roll higher while a d10 class is guaranteed 5+Con but can roll higher.

Character Backgrounds: Skirt length is fine. I do like this particular method however. Include ambitions, personality traits, reason for wanting to fight in Belkzen. Also secret that your character knows and a secret about your character that they don't know. And then for fun I'll make up a secret about your character that you have no idea about. Muuaa Haa Haaa!

Wow, this sounds awesome. Getting some wizard together.

edit: Just to clarify, does the 20 pt buy on a 1 to 1 basis start at 8 or 10?

I want to play a this of this. What the chassis will be I am undecided on but I'm in love with this concept.

Buy starts at 10!

Derp. That would be really cool. Would you play it like you hear the voice in you head? Or maybe I could create an alias and just directly speak to you as your rider. We could work something out I’m sure.

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Wonderful! I'm quite interested - I have a thought rattling in my head for a potential mystic theurge (cleric/wizard), a devotee of Kroina, the Empyreal Lord of divination. This character would use magic to try to suss out what's going on in enemy territory and bring back valuable information, and fits the "paladin-y" Lawful Good approach of the group.

Interesting to see a lawful good god of divination. Pretty cool, definitely an asset to the crusade’s intelligence gathering. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Edit: While the crusade itself is LG. It will have mercenary compliment and no such restrictions are placed on the pc’s. Just FYI.

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I got the idea that the crusade might be using somewhat sketchier elements for scouting and accomplishing mission goals under duress. The deity in question just seemed like a really good fit (another interesting possibility being Kelinahat, the empyreal lord of spies and intelligence gathering). Since mystic theurges are hybrid casters and thus not very good at blasting or debuffing, a focus on divination and party buffs seemed like a strong fit.

Alternatively, if other players have notions that would overlap, I'm happy to play something like a grizzled ranger to lead the group through the wild, or a halfling bard to bolster them, or really just about anything. :)

I was thinking of the later option, though likely doing it through PM's since my actions towards keeping the tyrant from killing me could drive plot points pretty well.

I think a Kitsune Mesmerist would be a good fit for this concept. Vastly capable of espionage from early levels and if I keep my foxhood a secret I can use that identity for my "Please tyrant don't hurt me" work, and my human form for "Lastwall please trust me" work. DOUBLE AGENT!

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I'll back out. I'm not interested in a game where a party member is actually a secretly evil character who plans to betray everyone.

I'd have thought that the idea of a party member being essentially held hostage by a long time enemy of the entire world would be interesting. I don't think that turning on the party mid combat would be something the tyrant would want from me anyways, it would most definitly be a long con. Potentially even outside the scope of the game.

I'm fascinated. This has an interesting structure and theme but plenty of freedom.

Interested. But not if anything like derpidruid's concept is acceptable.

A Slayer, Hunter, Ranger or Rogue perhaps. Maybe from Belkzan with a lifelong grudge against the Orcs.

Why is this idea such a turn off? It's fully within the GM's control, so I'm not going to be doing anything out of the ordinary less the GM wants it to happen and even then if it's egregious I can always refuse.

This isn't me asking too be allowed to play an evil character. This is me asking to play a hostage, to play a plot point if you will.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
derpdidruid wrote:

Why is this idea such a turn off? It's fully within the GM's control, so I'm not going to be doing anything out of the ordinary less the GM wants it to happen and even then if it's egregious I can always refuse.

This isn't me asking too be allowed to play an evil character. This is me asking to play a hostage, to play a plot point if you will.

The OP asks for people who want to be part of a fantasy Special ops unit, and you immediately come up with a double agent/hostage. That comes across as more than a little 'Lets make the game all about me!'

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2 people marked this as a favorite.

And the fantasy storyline is "Our team heads into the wild and suffers through awful hardships to save a city of just and decent people," and your rebuttal to that thread is either you betray us all or, offscreen, sabotage everything later so that nothing we do matters. I sure don't feel like spending a few years playing out an AP that ends with "Oh and your double agent party member ruins everything, your attempts to save your home fail, and the whole exercise was a waste of time."

Interested in the premise DM Malleus. Thinking of a Human Monk [Harrow Warden] 2/Paladin 1 - an uber LG prophetic/mystic warrior type, from an ancient, deeply orthodox (then) and mostly frowned upon (now) Harrow-focused sect of Iomedae, trained for this final of pushes to regain the Sunwall. Without any actual ability to prophecy or be very mystical, he would see "signs" everywhere and consult the Harrow pseudo-religiously. Despite that, his good intentions just outweighs his resort to law. Unless the Harrow demands otherwise. ;)

I'll PM you the secret I know and the secret I don't.

As for derpdidruid's concept, it doesn't stike me as necessarily becoming the total problem DBH and Jesse Heinig are foreseeing, though I definitely see their cause for concern. And the mind-host has been played out to some good effect throughout much of cinematic and literary culture. For me it shakes out like this:

PROS: Yep, definitely seeing the plot point.
And that kicker if the rider leaves the host! Awesome drawback, and yet something for the host(age) to actively aspire to.
CONS: Hang on, so our basic enemy is riding along with us, knowing what we are doing the whole way? Ouch.
Those abilities seem pretty powerful. Then again, I have no problem with intra-party power imbalances nor being "outshone" mechanically. I might baulk at deus ex machina within our own party.

Hmm. I'll wait to see how this plays out.

GM, 2 questions.

(for now at least. :P)

#1, to what lvl do you think this game would go?

#2, would you allow a PC to be a spirit?
I'm referring to 3PP Deathless ghost

It is described as a soul that's not transitioned into a proper life, but can slowly come to be on the material plane, or (from speculation) dreamed into existence.
I was wondering about a spirit born of people's desires for positive change.

The monsterclass caps at 3 lvls, so regular classes after that.

At least until lvl 15, (and then only by feat) they have the weakness of not being able to come back from being destroyed.
So perma-death/rogue like, contrary to the living party members.

They are not incorporeal unless a feat at higher lvl is taken.

Scarab Sages

This sounds like a lot of fun!

DM Malleus wrote:
A word about prereq feats aka feat tax. If your ability score for the first feat in a common chain (Power attack, Combat Expertise, Precise Shot etc) Exceeds the required amount by 3 at the start of the game, you can have that feat for free. Example a Level 3 Fighter with 18 Strength, is awarded Power Attack without it counting towards his purchased feats.

Precise Shot doesn't actually have an ability score prereq (nor does Point Blank Shot). Is it your intention to grant one or both of those to high Dex characters, as if they had a prereq of a score of 13?

I've never played with a template before. A lot of them have more than one possible CR adjustment depending on the HD of the base creature. Does a character get the higher HD benefits of the template as he levels up? And does he have a sort of blank level later on at the time that the CR would change from +1 to +2? Or do you just get the abilities as shown for a 1 HD creature and never change? See half-celestial for an example.

I agree that I would not appreciate having a campaign end due to a double agent. TT game maybe but not in a PBP one. Too much time and energy put into the game and to have it end with a double agent ending would be very upsetting.

Morning everyone. Thanks for the interest!

1. It can go to what ever level it needs to. To actually "win" long term, a high level is likely necessary.
2. It is a monster class, not a template. I'm not necessarily saying no, I just can't look at it mechanically as it's not on D20pfsrd. If you can link me to the stat layout I can weigh in.

Keante - you are right but the spirit of my wish is yes. The ability score prereq would be 16 however. To be granted a relief from feat tax you must decently exceed 13. Just like taxes in real life *rimshot*
EDIT:- Inherited templates with adjustable CR count as the highest CR they will become. Therefore things like Half-Celestial are right out because you don't have enough levels to exchange essentially capping the Template CR at creation to +2 leaving you with a templated level 1 character.

-OSW Thanks for the interest and the secrets. *Folds hands manically*

About Derp's concept. I understand everyone's concerns. Let me discuss why I was OK with allowing him to submit a character of that type.
1. It's just a submission. Depending on interest or even derp himself submitting additional entries(which is allowed of all) that character may not be selected.
2. I get that it can seem a bit Special Snowflake Syndrome. Here's how I would play it and why it seemed fair to me. I attempt to run balanced games but really believe in the many hat GM idea. If I'm controlling an evil being, monster or otherwise, I will attempt to play them correctly for their lore. Some encounters may be easy some you may need to avoid or run from, intelligent enemies will likely target casters and so on. Gloves off DMing if you will. The point is in the haunted one template, the host doesn't hear the voice of the rider. It's more of an innate draw that is woven into the host's own thoughts and memories(Which I think could provide exposition gold if handled well) and I as the GM representing one of the most evil entities that Golarian has ever seen basically have a kill switch on the host player, which I will use, often. So I see it playing out something like this. The campaign plays out as is shaped by the party and I, some of the things you do might unknowingly be in concert with a grand scheme being worked through the host player. At the end of the day what is likely to happen though is that A. Derp is able to resist the rider with a high Con score, basically making it a moot point. B. He is a good person and attempts to resist the rider and is killed by 3d6 Con drain PER ROUND. C. The party kills/hands him over to be prisoner of the crusade at which point the player would need a new PC anyways. OR D. The party discovers and helps the host get rid of the Rider, via an atonement spell, which I imagine would be available from any of the several mid to high level clerics the crusade is sure to have with it.

In conclusion Derp my advice is this. While the concept is allowed, you may want to submit a character that is more inline with being part of a unit. If you are set on the concept, it would likely behoove you to do a few things. Make sure the character is interesting and useful, without the template because eventually one way or another, you will likely loose it. You must also be OK with the near guarantee that the character will likely die.

I can link/PM you screenshots from the material.

Well this seems pretty awesome. I was just thinking I had enough time for one more PbP. A secret strike team into Belzkin? Sounds fun.

I think I'd like to play a half-orc slayer (or possibly just unchained rogue) who's an agent for Lastwall itself. He's chosen for the team because, quite simply, he's been living there in deep cover for several months so he can function as a guide.

This isn't a double-agent who will betray the party at any point like the upward argument, but a secret agent for Lastwall itself, who volunteered long ago because of his heritage to spy their land.

As a half-orc born to a human of an orc's rape, a common but nonetheless sad tale in the borderlands, and raised in Lastwall, he's more ashamed of his orc heritage, and proud of the nation that accepted him for his ability and loyalty rather than rejecting him out of hand as happens to so many half-orcs. We're talking the kind of guy who lied about his age so he could volunteer for the military early - absolute patriot. Lawful good, but probably leaning more to the law than the good.

Ambitions: To serve his country, and help bring back their lost land. If I summed up this character's motivation, it would be patriotism. He also wants to start a family, since he grew up without one.

Personality traits: Overly serious - not very good with sarcasm, joking, etc. Also a bit aggressive and snappy, but that's more out of habit from living in Belzkin in deep cover than anything inherent.

Reason for wanting to fight in Belkzen: Read almost all of the above.

Secret that your character knows: He knows who his father is, and unfortunately it's an orc of significant rank.

Secret about your character that they don't know: One of the NPCs important to the story just doesn't trust him, but doesn't overtly show it.

interesting idea with the inherited templates, but the way you describe them, Fey, Foo, and Tulpa are basically the only non-evil templates available from the Paizo listings. The others all set the creature CR above 3 if we have to account for the largest, final number possible out of the gate. Or they set the character's alignment to evil.

Maybe I've missed something?

Animal Lord, for example, sets to the HIGHER of Character Level +2 or base animal's CR+2. I suppose there are animals at CR 1 and less, but none of the fun ones.

Half-Dragon explicitly says the minimum CR for using the template is 5.

Maximum for Celestial is +3, so can't do it.


Ooh, templates. Fun. I've got a natural werebear Ranger and a half-dragon Paladin of Apsu from other games that died. I'll probably retool and submit one of them.

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Character Submission
* Dwarven Treasure Hunter Infiltrater Ranger
* Lvl 8 goes into sun seeker prestige class

“Me name? It be Drazh Anviltamer. An’ aye, I be from the Sky Citadel Koldukar. Or as ye manlings call it, Belkzen. After the battle o’ Nine Stones, me clan made an oath o’ vengeance against the orcs. We have all been held to that oath ever since. Our home be Koldukar, even though we live in Lastwall now. What am I here for? To kill orcs, o’course. Me kinsmen have two callin’s. Either we make arms an’ armor to kill orcs, or we wield said weapons. I’m partial to me halberd, ye ken? It be an axe, first and foremost. But iffin’ some blood mad orc charges ye, ye can brace yerself. Stick him like a pig. Nothin’ so safisfyin’ as that, let me tell ye! But ye’ve heard me gab enough, aye? At the end o’ the day, I’ve spent me entire life trainin’ for this, so I don’t rightly care who ye are or why ye be here. Iffin ye’ll raise yer blade next to mind, that’s all that matters to me.”

Actually, this concept might be a good chance for me to finally try out the vigilante class. One identity is the half-orc from Lastwall, the other his deep cover, a full orc from Belzkin...

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The Vagrant Erudite wrote:
Actually, this concept might be a good chance for me to finally try out the vigilante class. One identity is the half-orc from Lastwall, the other his deep cover, a full orc from Belzkin...

Starting to sound like the game is not going to be what the DM originally proposed, but just a bunch of double agents trying to bring down Vigil.

Jesse Heinig wrote:
The Vagrant Erudite wrote:
Actually, this concept might be a good chance for me to finally try out the vigilante class. One identity is the half-orc from Lastwall, the other his deep cover, a full orc from Belzkin...
Starting to sound like the game is not going to be what the DM originally proposed, but just a bunch of double agents trying to bring down Vigil.

Did you even read what I wrote? Where in that at all does it say trying to bring down Vigil? I pointedly stated this was someone loyal to Lastwall. The exact opposite of trying to bring down vigil.

And you know, besides that, why don't you let the GM worry about who he recruits?

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You did not say loyal to Lastwall. You said One identity is the half-orc from Lastwall, the other his deep cover, a full orc from Belzkin, and made no statement about which is which.

I worry about people not getting into a game that is what they thought they were getting, since the DM advertised it as a semi-heroic adventure to save Vigil from destruction by investigating the threat of a massive orc army. I am not the only player who has had such reservations about the theme being subverted.

The first PBP that I played on these boards, the DM advertised as a fast-moving stock Kingmaker campaign. There was an opening for a cleric, so I made a cleric and joined. What later became apparent was that the game was actually the "DM's roommate show." The player who was the DM's roommate played a highly optimized half-orc slayer who approached every problem in the game as a test of his ability to kill it. If the party disagreed, he threatened to kill them. At one point he implied that his character might rape one of the other party members. He enslaved enemies that we defeated - literally, forced them into slavery and used them for his projects. He justified all of this with the claim that because his character is Chaotic Neutral, he can do whatever he wants. (Apparently to him, slavery is a Chaotic Neutral institution, because that's true freedom?) He also wrote about his belief that strength was the only true power, that all disagreements should be solved with violence and whoever lost was clearly wrong because they were weak.

So you can understand that I like to know what kind of game I'm getting into, and with whom I might be participating.

Deep cover means that's not your true loyalty - that's why it is deep undercover. Like Leonardo DiCaprio in The Departed.

Plus the post above it when I explained the concept (originally as a slayer or rogue) I talked about him being a huge patriot. Literally four posts up from that one.

So my idea is his true identity is the one loyal to Lastwall. The "full orc" is taking advantage of the MASSIVE disguise bonus, and the fact that I wouldn't be changing subtypes, so it's a really easy one to pull.

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I’ve got no problem with the character concept. But how would it play out in the gameplay thread? Hard to split the party, so would the alternate identity be for scouting purposes?

Hiya GM, would you allow the Limbjack Template? Basically my idea is that he's a Stonelord Dwarf Paladin, whose slowly being changed into a creature of iron and stone as a result of his faith, and dealing with the consequences of becoming less and less mortal and more and more weapon as the adventure goes on.

I'll get my submission in tonight.

Drazh Anviltamer wrote:


I’ve got no problem with the character concept. But how would it play out in the gameplay thread? Hard to split the party, so would the alternate identity be for scouting purposes?

That was my idea, or talking our way out of problem, etc.

What is the stand on Path of War stuff?
But beyond that, Dot.

Would you allow someone to use the Taninim race and Paragon class? I had the idea of playing a silver dragon.

Also would you allow the Solaric template? A silver dragon blessed by the sun and ordained to upheld the law and protect the small people.

Been pondering concepts that would fit well with a fantasy spec-ops team. Lots of cool possibilities. But a Ruthless Agent Investigator ... that's where I'm leaning.

Or relentless investigator ...that is closer to what I'm thinking.

Got him down on paper. I'll put up here tonight or tomorrow.

Character submission.

Alma the Soulborn.
Lvl 3 Deathless spirit.

Character background.
As far as Alma knows, she came to be when a middle aged woman with mystical powers, made a prayer to an unnamed entity, for a soul that could represent the common folk's desire to do something about the orc menace, without having to actively join the knightly order.

Thus she, an unliving soul with the affinity to stalk and observe, while also negotiate, was formed in an ectoplasmic body. A curious yet fairly careless soul.

Until the middle aged woman at one time accompanied a party of crusaders, but was reported dead due to an orcish ambush. This sparked her hatred for orcs, as this woman was essentially a mother figure to her.
That was the moment she actively sought to find a way to help in the endeavor to repel the orc threat.

I'll have to sort out her purchases later.

Scarab Sages

Well, if half-dragon does work (it's CR+2; I don't actually see the minimum 5 CR thing that hustonj was talking about, maybe d20pfsrd has something extra compared to the PRD), then I'm interested in making a half-copper dragon character. Probably a fighter or monk, but I'd like to keep considering that longer. Would the breath weapon part of the template be inoperative since the character will have no racial hit dice ("The breath weapon deals 1d6 hit points of damage per racial HD possessed by the half-dragon."), or would you rule it to be based off of character level instead?

Good evening everyone. Thanks for the interest.

Some updates for creation. Due to a slight problem pointed out to me by hustonj. I will allow for templates that increase in CR as you increase in HD at character creation. I will also remove minimum CR requirements at creation(not when aquired further in the game however). For example, at creation a level 1 Fighter Half dragon would be available with a 10%xp penalty. Also things like half celestial that increase in CR will work like this. At creation a half celestial would be for example a Half celestial ranger 2. Upon gaining the character's 6th HD and an addtional +1 to the CR from the template, a 10%xp penalty would be applied meaning that the 12,000 xp needed to advance to 7th level would be instead 13,200 and so on increasing to 20% at 11HD.
Basically CR 1 templates carry no penalty and a 10% penalty for every CR after the first the template grants. Hopeful this will keep things a bit more fair for all.

@Vagrant I understood your meaning. You'd likely have to pose as a prisoner occasionally or be faced with having to fight Orcs you know and maybe even are friends with?!

@Jet18 Path of war is allowed.

As far as 3rd party, please still ask but know that I tend to be pretty much OK with anything from Rite Publishing or Green Ronin.

@JonGarret Limbjack is fine.

A word about this recruitment. I will be going out of town from this coming friday to the 3rd of January for the holidays. I plan to try and check this thread occasionally during that period depending on my access to a computer. I plan to make final decisions on the 5th and begin play on the 6th of January. So everyone has plenty of time to hash out their characters. If anyone has questions about the setting feel free to ask. I would also recommend reading the Belkzen and Lastwall Pathfinderwiki entries for anyone who'd like some additional info on the area.

@Jesse, Dang sorry that first pbp was so crappy. FYI any explicit violence or overt verbal abuse between player characters in my games must be agreed upon by both players out of character before hand in the discussion board. And if any players feel the need to threaten SEXUAL VIOLENCE against another, they will find themselves hit with an arrow of (*insert appropriate form of slaying here*) and promptly shat out of an Orc, just so we're all clear.

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All the CR stuff makes my head spin. Good thing dwarves are simple

It's pretty simple actually assuming one can do basic math(very basic on my part because I can't do to much more than what I stated above!).

Stick to CR 1 or no template and you wont even have to think about it!

The question a player would ask is "How much xp would I need to attain the next level?" Add ten or twenty percent to that number accordingly.

Keante wrote:
(it's CR+2; I don't actually see the minimum 5 CR thing that hustonj was talking about

I agree with you . Maybe I was tired and between my tired old eyes and the font used I misread the 3 as a 5. That hard, flat-top 3 does that to me sometimes.

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Sounds fair. And CR1 makes this quite easy for me

Pathfinderwiki: Lastwall

Pathfinderwiki: Hold of Belkzen

I forgot to mention the secrets and ambitions, didn't i.

Current personal goals/Ambitions: quell the orcs, and seek out what entity/deity made her existence possible.

Secret she knows: An ambitious noble within crusader ranks really would like to see a senior ranked crusader captain dead, and might be trying to make it happen, to further his own glory by climbing the ranks. (If DM approves)

A secret about her she doesn't know.
Her manifested appearance is that of a deceased young woman, late wife to someone in the crusader ranks.

Expanded personality traits:
While a curious and generally carefree, being undead has a few convenient perks, Alma gets rather upset at the sight of children being hurt.

Hi! Some thoughts:

1- Question: Are Spheres of Power / Spheres of Might allowed?

2- Double Agents: I think the most important problem with the double agent is that we all know he is one. Yeah, we are all adults, we can leave metaknowledge out of the game, bla bla. But seriously, no one's gonna have fun knowing Joe is working for the enemy, because there's no surprise. IS like reading a book or watching a movie and knowing the end. This should have been a secret thing, imho, and I'd suggest if the player and the GM still want to go ahead with it they talk in private. The player could even submit two characters, one of them clean and the other haunted, without the rest knowing who's who, and then the GM picks whoever he feels.

Just my 2 cents.

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