Towards the middle of this month Paizo will be releasing the Pathfinder Unchained book, introducing new version of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes as well as a lot of new rules regarding combat actions and other things.
Do you all want to wait a little bit longer so that I can read it over and apply it to the game, or would you rather ignore it and play sooner?
I would imagine if a player REALLY wants to incorporate the "new" stuff, if GM approves, they could be allowed to change at a normal re-training point (i.e. next level).
Having Kasatha blood (DNA, whatever), do you want me to take Multiweapon attack as my Level 1 feat so it ties in with Flurry of Blows? Or does Flurry of Blows cover multi-arm attack including monk weapons? I can see an argument for both.
@Ikari, The multi-weapon fighting feat states that it replaces two-weapon fighting for creatures with more than 2 limbs. Thus I would see how it'd do the same for flurry of blows and brawler's flurry.
It holds the same penalties so I would say it works the same. Basically you use it the exact same way, making one extra attack per round on a full-attack, but it may be with any of your arms. This way the additional attacks you gain through leveling up makes more sense, one for each arm xD
So really absolutely nothing changes, just the name of the feat.
EDIT: think of it like the Feral Combat Training, you can use any of your arms for each of your flurry of blows attacks.
Seems like the general consensus is to play sooner and incorporate the rules into the running game. AND SO IT SHALL BE! *poof*
17 more days, I will be posting some additional info under the campaign info later this week. Stay tuned.
Also to stir you guys up some, I will be making my first player choice next monday, the rest will follow after the deadline. ;P so get cracking (writing)
Ah f**& it, I will go ahead and allow the use of templates on starting characters as long as it doesn't increase your CR by more than +2.
In order to gain a template you must do one of the following:
1) remove the extra dice rolled for spell/bab/save bonuses
2) remove 1 level from either side of your gestalt (meaning you will start with only 1 level in one class)
3) become Xenophobic (meaning you know only the racial language associated with your template and have no bonus languages regardless of your Int modifier), take a -4 to Charisma, and choose a Drawback
No matter which you choose you must include a sensible reason as to why you have the template in your backstory.
Template examples: Half-Dragon, Half-Fiend, Vampire, Half-Celestial, etc.
wow. Ahm, might I ask you to elaborate on that?
While i definitely would love to play a Worm-that-Walks or a Shadow-Traced-Creature, i expect thats not exactly the intent.
Would hate to create a Concept based on that(e.g. using Fetchling Sorcerer(Shadow) as starting build for Shadow-Traced) only to then hear its out.
Also, before I roll, I assume i can still roll 20 dice and THEN make the decision of wether to make a template thingie?
Because otherwise everybody that already rolled 20 would be at an advantage if they just have to remove 2 dice, and I only get to roll 18, right?
Oh, also, with the template stuff, what about those scaling ones? Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend, e.g. have a variable one. Are those ok?
And in addition, what about multiples?
I have always wanted to play a "young(simple template, -1) swarm(0) of half-celestial(varied, 1-3) halflings"
Young makes them Tiny which allows for Swarming :D One half is celestial, the other Halflings
(and aye, i am just kidding, although it would be really fun to play)
One template at a time please, and anything is okay as long is your CR doesn't increase more than +2, scaling is alright I am mainly worried about the APL @ 1st-3rd levels.
If you are going to roll 20 first, you cannot drop your 2 lowest rolls for the template, everybody who had rolled previously had put amounts into the extra that they actually wanted, so they ended up actually losing one thing and gaining another. Honestly I'd prefer you roll 18d6. Unless you'd prefer one of the other methods of obtaining a template.
One template at a time please, and anything is okay as long is your CR doesn't increase more than +2, scaling is alright I am mainly worried about the APL @ 1st-3rd levels.
If you are going to roll 20 first, you cannot drop your 2 lowest rolls for the template, everybody who had rolled previously had put amounts into the extra that they actually wanted, so they ended up actually losing one thing and gaining another. Honestly I'd prefer you roll 18d6. Unless you'd prefer one of the other methods of obtaining a template.
Aye, and btw: It was just that I saw people reconstructing, naturally re-distributed their dice. So i thought thats how it worked, pick the best, drop the 2 worst, and thats what you get. Did not mean to powercreep there.
anyway:
With that out of the way, while the templates are TRULY tempting(especially those that boost your ability scores crazy), the most interesting ones(to me...alacritous anyone?) were those without these boni, which would seriously impact early game survivability.
So I'll go with regular.
(6,6,6)=>Cha 18(+2 Racial)(another +2 Racial)
(6)=>Bab
(That takes care of all my 6's)
(5,5,4)=>Con 14
(5,5,4)=>Str 14(+2 Racial)
(4,5,5)=>Int 14(-2 Racial)
(4,4,4)=>Dex 12
(3,3,5)=>Wis 11
one (3) remains for...Fortitude Save. I despise Death Effects.
And with that, I'll go with a Tiefling(Demonspawn). Considering you said we get to pick from the table, and the fact that Asimar get no -2 on a attribute, I choose to Roll 100 on that table, and then roll again for 49(Healed by both positive and negative Energy) and 9(+2 Charisma). If need to pick either, it's the +2 Charisma.
As for class, will be
Sorcerer(Crossblooded(Abyssal/Draconic))/Brawler(Snakebite Striker)
I'll create her tomorrow.
Plan is to go Dragon Disciple on the Sorcerer side when applicable, stick with Brawler(except 1-level dip in unarmed fighter for monk weapon proficiencies).
Will not know many spells, so mostly focused on Buffs, Control and Specific Summons(no utility and very limited blasting), and Swift Actions to cast in Armor.
Considering you said we get to pick from the table, and the fact that Asimar get no -2 on a attribute, I choose to Roll 100 on that table, and then roll again for 49(Healed by both positive and negative Energy) and 9(+2 Charisma).
Lol. I'm sure the idea is that you pick ONE, and it goes without saying you don't pick a 100, but hey, maybe I am wrong. If this flies, let me know, I'll snag a 100 also. :)
With that out of the way, while the templates are TRULY tempting(especially those that boost your ability scores crazy), the most interesting ones(to me...alacritous anyone?) were those without these boni, which would seriously impact early game survivability.
I don't quite understand what you're getting at here, but it seems you are saying that choosing a template that doesn't boost your ability scores tremendously over a template that does would hurt your character's survival. If this is what you are saying, it's false.
A template, no matter what kind, is always an ADDITION to your character, it doesn't take away from anything, other than maybe changing your type and lower an ability or two, such as Undead or Vampire templates, but usually those have amazing upsides to back it up. Having a template that isn't as strong as another template (in your eyes) has absolutely nothing to do with early game survival, most characters don't even HAVE templates.
You don't have to have a template if you don't want to, I just think you should alter your reasoning for it.
If I completely misunderstood your meaning, please clarify and then ignore this post :P
With that out of the way, while the templates are TRULY tempting(especially those that boost your ability scores crazy), the most interesting ones(to me...alacritous anyone?) were those without these boni, which would seriously impact early game survivability.
I don't quite understand what you're getting at here, but it seems you are saying that choosing a template that doesn't boost your ability scores tremendously over a template that does would hurt your character's survival. If this is what you are saying, it's false.
A template, no matter what kind, is always an ADDITION to your character, it doesn't take away from anything, other than maybe changing your type and lower an ability or two, such as Undead or Vampire templates, but usually those have amazing upsides to back it up. Having a template that isn't as strong as another template (in your eyes) has absolutely nothing to do with early game survival, most characters don't even HAVE templates.
You don't have to have a template if you don't want to, I just think you should alter your reasoning for it.
If I completely misunderstood your meaning, please clarify and then ignore this post :P
no, you are completely right in what you say. The thing is, it depends on build. I had intended on a build that started out with a casting class.
Since part of the template-deal is that you lose the other side of your gestalt, that would leave me with 6+Con-Mod HP(and also unboostable by extra die since those were given up too.) So IF i choose a template that does NOT boost ability scores, thats 2 less AC(from Dex) and 2 less HP(from Con), and even with picking up thoughness at Level 1, I would likely have around 11 HP max, with crappy AC, few spells and not too-good saves.
Also, in future levels we roll HP, so even if i pick up a 10HP gestalt class on level 2, I may not get lucky to roll high then.
What I meant is that with the build ideas I had, which would have implemented templates, the survivability of the character would have been impacted in such a negative way that likely it would not have survived early game in a high-powered campaign.
Not that those templates are bad, by far not, I just tried to explain why I decided against it.
E.g. alacritous would allow one to cast a spell, then charge+pounce, every second round. lots of nice feats and extras there too. But no modifications, so if i start out with my caster, can't wear armor, d6 HD, bad AC, I would likely not survive long against the kind of stuff you have to send against half-dragons and half-celestials.
I have not posted yet because I was checking the validity of starting out with a non-caster class and then adding casting in after. Sorry if my post was unclear.
@cavetoad: Ya, i guessed that :) Just always felt poor tieflings get treated worse than their aasimar brethren(13 RP vs 15 RP) so thought i'd stretch it...hey, give me credit for not trying to get the SR or another +2 Attribute ;)
I don't see where you are possibly getting that a template in any way would make you any less survivable than the other characters.
Also you EITHER lose 1 level from a gestalt side, OR drop the extra dice, not both.
Aye, it was meant in a way of "Depending on the build you want to do, a template may impact survivability", simply because some templates come more front-loaded with utility than others.
But alas, I was stupid. The way I read it was simply as a numbered list, and logically it made sense to my mind considering the power of templates that all points had to be fulfilled.
I thought I had to lose a gestalt level, drop the extra dice, AND take -4 Cha+Drawback+Xenophobic.
You pretty clearly wrote "do one of the following" but i suppose my mind skipped over that part seamlessly already busy considering options.
Now that it's clear my logic messed up, maybe it's more understandable that i considered it more "lethal" to start with a non-frontloaded template, since in a high-powered campaign it could be pretty lethal to choose a template that only really shines after a few levels AND give up a gestalt level, the extra dice, and a attribute hit.
I am terribly sorry for this huge misunderstanding, thanks a lot for your patience there in explaining it.
And here she is. I took off one Gestalt level, tried to explain her template in Background, only rolled once on the table(the +2 Cha).
(Crunch in profile)
Background:
Alexstraza's Father was a powerful Half-Fiend Sorcerer, her mother a Half-Dragon Warrior. They were travelling the world and planes in an adventuring party when they fell in love with each other and her mother became pregnant.
Since they had somewhat pressing matters in a quest to take care off, they came up with a plan. After aquiring the means to do so, they created a permanent Demiplane, and willed it to have an erratic timeflow. Alexstraza's mother spent the majority of her pregnancy there, while on the material plane, only a few days passed. After she was born, and her mother felt well enough to rejoin the party, another demiplane was created, this time with a timeless trait, and Alexstraza left there, in the care of magical servants. The idea was that they could finish their quest, then return to their daughter with no time passed and take care of her.
Only, things did not go well. The party failed in their quest, and both of Alexstaza's parents were killed and bound. A human friend of theirs managed to survive, and came back for their daughter. His friends dead, his quest impossible and people after him, he was done being an adventurer, and wanted to do his friends the last favor of taking care of their child.
Taking her back to the material world, he quickly found that the time during her mothers pregnancy in a erratic time flow and after that, time she spend in a timeless state had changed her. Time seemed to flow slower for her. Not by much, but definitely noticable. Her movements seemed unnatural, she was hungry more often, and slept for only short times. When she grew into a girl, she learned, as most children do, by mimicking adults. Her movements begun to seem more natural, and she spoke normal, too. But regardless, it became even more obvious that time in this world was moving slower for her. He thought her as best he could, but in the end, he was also only a human.
By the time Alexstraza was no longer a child, he had grown very old, and eventually died. After burying him, it was time for Alexstraza to go out and write her own story. Her foster father never told her what her real parents died for, but that had just made her that much more curious.
Appearance:
Alexstraza is, for a Tiefling, rather beautiful by other races standards. She stands about 165 cm tall, weighing about 55 kg, has jet black hair and red cat eyes. From her forehead, two horns protrude which contrast her otherwise pale complexion.
A gift from her mother, she is also able to manifest claws from her nails to attack in melee with, but otherwise her extremeties are normal.
She has neither a tail nor fur, but most of her pale skin is patterned as with tattoed green scales.
Fluff Considerations:
I took away her Spell-Like Ability and instead gave her claws(as per alternate racial stuff). Since she will progress in Brawler, I like the idea that her claws become more powerful over time(explaining the increase in unarmed damage). I would not consider her attack any different from that unarmed strike, she would always just use the regular unarmed damage from Brawlers, but I think playing it as if she uses her claws would just feel more right.
Also, the green scale-like pattern on her skin, since she will descend from Green Dragons in her Draconic Bloodline(starting with second level) those will just become more prominent when she gains natural armor from there.
I would like to ask that everybody who has submitted a character make an alias, it is easier for me to keep track of crunch/fluff that way rather than flip through this thread.
Still waiting on HighonHolyWater, sarpadian, TheWidget, Kelarith, and rorek55 to finalize their characters by making aliases.
Waiting for finished submissions from the following:
Takesh
Alynthar
Trawets71
Divinitus
The Thing from Beyond the Edge
Gavmania
Cr500Cricket
Angelpalm
bigrig107
Sazi Kimmi
Mefika
Rigor Rictus
Drogeney
Reading over these characters I am realizing how much difficulty I am going to have choosing them :\
a few things:
@Baru, first I would like for you to put your background in your alias, second, this is not Golarion, there's no Cheliax or Absolom. If you need town names you can PM me and we can work them out, or just don't say any in the background, whichever you prefer.
@Nolath, why not Celestial bloodline?
@Nijena, don't forget your bonus spells per day.
@Rockjaw, somewhere in your background can you include what he did that led to his shameful leave from his clan?
Reading over these characters I am realizing how much difficulty I am going to have choosing them :\
@Nijena, don't forget your bonus spells per day.
I have the ability listed under my special abilities, but since they are flexible I guess I didnt designate anything specific for it. I choose 3 wizard spells now just to indicate an average day in which i might expect combat.
It just seemed as though Nolath already had the celestial side of things via his Angelkin powers, but the Destined bloodline showed that he was meant to do great things, and I thought that the Arcane bloodline did a good job of explaining why he's a bloodrager and has arcane powers. In hindsight, maybe Celestial would have better emphasized the angelic side of my character, but Arcane and Destined made for a more well-rounded character.
