@Fargrim, as explained, it's very different in intent.
Even without a Slumber Hex, sleep is a very low-level spell to induce, instantly setting up targets for coups without any effort.
Unconscious means the target is already permanently out of the fight.
I can understand you from a "logical" approach.
But considering the "mechanical" approach, it makes sense how the Feat is worded.
That said, it's all up to GM.
Alas, if it DOES work on all manners of helpless creatures, it may be too good a feat to pass up, because there's many different ways to induce that state(Hold monster, anyone?). We can only hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the back if GM returns the favor.
I agree that feat is phenomenal, which is why its not legal for my grappling based Brawler for PFS... I do feel the prerequisites should probably be a bit more steep for that feat due to how powerful it can turn out to be. Especially if you use a Light Pick with it... there are very few times when the target will be able to make a Fort Save that high.
Throat Slicer is very specific, but I have no quarrels with adding sleeping to the list of helpless conditions. Targets get a save vs. the slumber effect. They also get a fortitude save vs. the coup de grace. The bone knife is a 1d4/x2 knife, so it's not terribly overpowered to me. The higher in level you get, the better the oppositions saving throws are going to be. It only takes a standard action to wake them up and remove the slumber effect. Changing coup de grace from a full round action to a standard action isn't a game breaker to me as of yet.
You have 5 party members and three of them are witches. Most DM's think witches break the game anyway and I have three of them. Even so, I've almost killed Fargrim twice now and he hasn't been here that long compared to the rest.
So, for official approval, Throat Slicer will also affect sleeping targets.
Just for reference, I need to ask: Are other types of helpless still excluded?
Specifically, asking if paralyzed is also approved.
If only sleep is added, I can pass it up as Sandmans stuff.
If other helpless are affected, it's worth serious consideration to pick up and focus spells to take advantage of it.
I'm willing to let the Throat Slicer feat apply to all Helpless conditions...for now. If it gets out of hand I may reverse my decision so let's not try to break the game.
I can work with that.
As a note, the joy/horror of the Bone Razor is that it can be passed around. The person who does the killing gets a free skeleton, but only one at a time per person.
So if I already have a skeleton, I could give the bone razor to Nivian. It's possible that we could all end up with our own minions.
You are also level 4 now. Please post changes in the discussion thread.
Bard 4
+1 Dexterity
+1 BAB
+1 Ref and Will saves
+2 Appraise
+1 Bluff
+1 Diplomacy
+1 Disable Device
+1 Escape Artist
+1 Perception
+1 Sense Motive
+1 Stealth
+1 Perform (dance)
+1 Sleight of Hand
Bardic performance improved to 14 rounds
Bardic dance skill bonus (not battle dance) improved to +2
New spells: 2nd-allegro, heroism
+1 Con
+1 BaB
+1 will save
+7 skill points
Favored class bonuses going to HP and Skill points
+1 first and second level spell slot.
Dust of Twilight, Cure Moderate Wounds and Blood Transcription added to spell list.
+1 minute of Scarshield. Natural Armor bonus increases to +2.
Coven Hex
@Sandman: Is there a mechanical reason to fetch the Coven hex already or are you just picking it up because you have no other good options for the level?
Relevant for my own choice, wether I extend my combat options or also pick up coven.
I'll be cleaning up my home with the wife today as its our last day of vacation before we both work all weekend. I'll get Fargrim leveled tomorrow.
So you have rescued your missing crew, eliminated the grindylows, and acquired fresh water to resupply the ship. What's the plan now?
There are two encounters that you did not engage. The giant moray eel in the sunken ship and exploring the swamp, neither of which you need to do, but they are there if you wanted to conquer the island so to speak.
You have effectively finished book one of the adventure path. Any thoughts on what's next?
I'd also appreciate any feedback, positive or negative. Feel free to PM me or post it here in the discussion. I've got fairly thick skin so don't feel like you have to spare my feelings.
@Sandman: Is there a mechanical reason to fetch the Coven hex already or are you just picking it up because you have no other good options for the level?
Relevant for my own choice, wether I extend my combat options or also pick up coven.
The only hexes that are viable are ones that work best with Cackle. I would have to take a Extra Hex or wait until 8th level to get it. I figured I might as well get Coven out of the way now. I'm pretty happy with how Sandman has been performing, so I figured I could afford to take an option that doesn't do anything for me right now.
I'm having fun so far!
I think if we ever plan to come back to this island, or to turn it into some kind of retreat or base, we obviously will need to finish exploring it and deal with the remaining encounters. But it's certainly a relief that we have rescued some of our crew and found some good loot in the process!
I'm not sure where the AP goes next, but we have a ship and the means to go where we will...
We could always indulge in a little bit of RP now that we are all assembled and have our crew back and have a chance at some leisure time, even if it's just for a day.
I'm sure some of the more ambitious crew like Nivian have ideas, too!
I think our next priority is getting the ship fixed.
That's going to be expensive. Searching the island might give us more spoils to sell. The Eel with the sunken ship seems like a good bet for that. There might be stuff we can salvage. I'm not so sure about the swamp though. Swamps tend to be nasty and slow.
I say let's hit the eel on the way back, then go to the ship.
@Island and what's left: As mentioned earlier, I would actually consider taking possession of it. Wether we use it as a home base or not, stashing some supplies here and preparing a "fallback" position could be valuable.
If anybody ends up with Leadership(maybe we get it as a "Coven"-Feat for the team, down the line as a freebie? *wink*), we could turn it into a full pirate colony later.
Even if not, we'd need to drop our excess plunder at some place, right? We may not want to "spend/distribute/exchange/whateverhappenswithplunder" all of it at once...what better place than a deserted island we took as our own?
The Moray Eel, I would actually want to try Sea Empathy on and convince it over to our side, as a Island Guardian of sorts. If things go bad, I'd need support from you others, though.
@What's next: We are short on crew, short on materials, and short on plunder. I guess we should remedy that, getting it repaired proper, recruiting more crew, rechristen the ship as "Covenant", then start hunting.
That means we a.: need a place that deals in ship repairs without asking many questions. and b.: a place where shady types hang out trying to get hired on ships not leaving port with goods. If we know a place that is both a. and b. that's not too far, I'd say we head there.
@Feedback: No suggestion or complaints here. We had a good pace, the extra boons(Feat, Class Skill, Team Feat) were a very nice touch(I hoped there would be something for Level 4 too, but I guess that's just because I was spoiled from the first 3 Levels ;) ).
Other than that, combat seemed very fair and properly done, story segments were interesting to read without outstaying their welcome.
In summary: I usually only join AP's I want to play at Level 1 or 2. Joining the Reign of Winter at effectively Level 4 had to do with you picking up as GM there.
@Johara: I do like the idea of a day where we all get drunk and celebrate before moving on again. Doing it on the island would mean no danger from bad weather, too ;)
@Sandman: Well, Evil Eye would work great as a setup for Misfortune, even without being extended by Cackle - especially at Level 8. But no matter. Just wanted to know if I should pick it up now. Guess I'll take Fortune ^_^
+1 Con/+1 FCB => 8 HP
FCB=> +1 Skill Point, +1 HP
+1 Int
+1 Will
+1 Spell Slot(Level 1, Level 2)
+3 Spells known(Frost Fall, Stone Discus, Gust of Wind)
+9 Skill Points
1 Perception
2 Profession(Sailor)
1 Knowledge(Geography)
1 Craft(Ships)
1 Lore(Sailor Superstitions/Nautical Folklore)
1 Diplomacy
1(background) Linguistics(picking up Dwarven)
1(background) Perform(Sing)
+1 Bardic Knowledge
Fortune Hex
@Island and what's left: As mentioned earlier, I would actually consider taking possession of it. Wether we use it as a home base or not, stashing some supplies here and preparing a "fallback" position could be valuable.
I don't want to get to meta-gamey, but from what I have picked up about this adventure path, us getting a headquarters is baked into the plot. Don't know when it happens though. This island could certainly serve until then.
I also like the idea of stashing plunder here rather than carrying it aboard the ship. Less cargo means moving faster, more room for other stuff, less incentive for mutiny, and less likely that we will be raided by other pirates.
Burying our treasure here would be delightfully pirate-y.
I agree, we should update our charts with this island, fix up the house a bit, and see if we can use it as a hidey-hole when we want to get away from it all. And bury some treasure and make a treasure map!
To recruit more crew, though, we're going to have to set sail for a port. Anyone know of a good pirate port in the region?
Anyone know of a good pirate port in the region?
Some Knowledge Local and/or Knowledge Geography checks can probably handle that.
We probably won't want to go anywhere common though. Harrigan is going to find out that the Promise didn't make it to it's destination. He might think Plugg and Scourge cut and ran, but he has the resources to do some Divination. He'll probably find out pretty quick what actually happened.
We're going to want to make it as hard as possible for him to find us again again, which means not showing up anywhere that we, or the ship, might be recognized.
We can discuss all this in game. It will be fun.
I forgot if GM needs to confirm our level-up choices before we apply them? I have not altered profile yet.
Also, Sandman, you forgot to roll your HP, didn't you?
Always. >.<
Thank you.
(+3 Con, +1 HP FCB) = 11 HP
4th Level Bloodrager
+1 bonus to Wisdom
+1 BaB
+1 Fort Save
+3 Bloodrage Rounds (2+1 FCB)
Special Abilities:
- Raging Resistance
- Arcane Bloodrage
Skills (4+1):
+1 Acrobatics
+1 Climb
+1 Intimidate
+1 Perception
+1 Survival
Background Skills:
+1 Profession: Sailor
+1 Knowledge: History
Do we regain all HP and things such as Rage rounds? Or just what we earned from leveling?
If we don't immediately go after the eel or the swamp, we will probably have a couple of days to rest and cast healing spells, right? I mean even if we're gathering supplies and working on the ship during the day, once we get a night of sleep that brings back our spells and such, and certainly Johara will burn a bunch of magic to heal Fargrim more rapidly.
From leveling, just what you gain new. Otherwise what Johara said. You could rest for a week if you need to. Also, Sandara could heal more if needed.
+1 Bonus to Int
+1 BAB
+1 Will
As for witch class abilities, as a hedge witch I lose my level 4 hex.
I get a bonus spell though of Cloud of Seasickness from my special Besmara patron that we designed.
Skills
Then for skill points with 2 + Int modifier and background I get 8 total. I think I forgot to update my skills on the site last level though, I'll have to double check that.
+1 craft (tattoo) (background)
+1 heal
+1 arcana
+1 religion
+1 sailor (background)
+1 spellcraft
+1 use magic device
+1 Sleight of Hand
Am I missing anything?
EDIT: Oh jeez, with the computer issues I had last time I never finished updating my character to level 3, never even decided on my 3rd level feat *cries* I'll try to get it done as soon as I can.
@Baltzar: Don't forget the double FCB from Nemesis... :)
Also, I take the answer to mean we are good to update, so I'll go ahead and apply the changes to my profile.
Also, Fargrim DID apply the 13 points I healed for him, but not the 18 points healed by Sandara via Channel Energy, bringing him up to 34/46 regular.
And since he should GAIN the HP from the levelup, it's actually 45/46...
Is it possible to leave out the mouth of the cove without getting near the giant eel?
Swimming with assistance from a rope seems safer to me than climbing with the rope.
I second that for one reason: We managed to bypass the Eel when we approached. However, right at the entrance, before we made it to grindylows, stirges attacked us.
We stayed unterwater, killed one, and I think the others fled.
I'm not especially keen on a dozen stirges descending upon us while we're climbing, even if we use a rope.
But then, I believe I simply feel more at home in water, so I may be biased. orz
Its the group's decision; however, one thing to point out... Climbing a knotted rope is only a DC 5 and you can Take 10 to auto pass if not in combat. Just a thought!
It is possible to swim out and avoid the eel.
Nivian is right about the stirges.
If you can get a rope up its a very easy climb once the stirges are not a threat.
I know Fargrim, I was more worried about the stirges attacking when someone is higher up...which then means no Take 10. It also means you have to get up there, without taking 10, and without being able to defend yourself properly, while they drain you.
If you want to try it, I won't stop you...but honestly I was mostly concerned for you, as they would likely attack the first person, and I think we don't have many people with ranged weapons.
I would probably remind you of the stirges in-game, too. (did not do it yet because you already interpreted first response as snappy, and Fargrim may well remember the stirges himself).
Didn't consider the Stirges.
Seems like going underwater to avoid them if they show up might be the thing to do.
Honestly, I think I missed your post about the stirges, Nivian. And don't worry, I didn't interpret your last in game post as snappy, Fargrim did only because he has the Proud drawback.
The 4th level boon is a FREE RACIAL feet. You must still qualify for it.
Nivian, go ahead and make your Wild Empathy check.
Johara gains improvisation, which should be pretty good about now getting to make all Knowledge checks at +3 without even having ranks in them and being allowed to do it untrained!
GM, that boon doesn't work out well for Baltzar.
Changelings only have one Racial feat option (Mother's Gift) and she already has it.
Would you mind if I moved Racial Heritage to this Boon slot and retrained my 1st level feat?
Somewhat agreed on Baltzar. They have 2 racials, but the second is dependent on other Changelings with her. Maybe she could use the Human or the Tiefling list instead?
@Sandman: Would that not effectively mean you get a free feat without restrictions? That seems against the intent.
Considering you get to choose from 2+ sets(23 orc, 17 human, I think many half-orc racials are covered with orc, but you also get 2 from changeling) with lots of flavorful options...
If you want to put some more emphasis on your own changeling side rather than seeming a pure half-orc, maybe you both could pick up Unusual Origin and it works without a third one?
@Nivian: I do have a problem, however.
I traded away the SLA for Amphibious.
That locks out 2 of the options.
Minimum Level locks out 1 more(and double-locks one of the SLA-requiring ones).
So I am left with 3 options:
Waterskinned, which lets me extinguish small fires with a touch.
Steamcaster, which turns fire spells into steam letting them work underwater.
And Aquatic Ancestry...which gives me amphibious and increases my swim speed by 10 ft.
Now, Nivian has a drawback, from when she was trapped aboard a burning ship. Burned.
Effect: You take a –1 penalty on saving throws against fire effects.
In addition, whenever you are adjacent to open flames or are on fire, you take a –1 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks until you spend an entire round away from fire. These penalties are not cumulative. (An instantaneous fire effect adjacent to you or affecting you causes this penalty to apply until 1 round after it is gone.)
Nivian will not voluntarily touch fires(to extinguish them), nor will she use fire spells. That only leaves the Aquatic Ancestry option, which doubles up on something I already paid for with alternate racial trait.
I will still pick it up since it is effectively the only option valid, but I'll have to ask if I am stuck being doubly amphibious, or I can "regain" the hydraulic push SLA I traded for being amphibious in the first place.
Hot damn! I will be selecting Dwarven Hatred Style for my racial feat!
@Baltzar, Mother's Touch has three options and is selectable more than once. All three options are pretty strong.
@Nivian, you can always use the retraining rules to change a Racial Trait, but you would probably have to wait until you're sailing again since it does take several days.
@Sandman, I'm going to say no. If the retraining rules allowed it, I'd be okay with it but since the feat is used to get an archetype you can't change it. You still count as Human, Orc, and Changlng for feats so you still have a wide selection to choose from.
Alright. I'll be taking Orc Weapon Expertise with the Defender option.
So into the sunken ship wreck to play with the giant moray eel or back to the ship for a status update and drop the kiddies off?
@Baltzar, don't forget to update your profile line. You should be level 4 now. I hope you have more than 15 hit points.
Ahh, nothing like Talk Like a Pirate day and Black Sails on tv again to get back in the pirate spirit.
I think Moray Eel was decided to be visited AFTER resting up, in case things go wrong. So I'd be for the status update and dropping the kiddies off.
Definitely the eel after we rest.
I'm inclined to just hole up in the house to rest rather than going all the way back to the ship. We do have a guy who needs to have his leg removed. We might need to make a litter to get him back to the ship.
Oh, I figured we're already at the beach, could fetch the sideboat, place him there and be back at the ship quickly.
I actually expected the path up to the house to be the tricky one, it overlooking most of the island implies we have a path up a hill where we need to carry a person not able to walk.
I'm fine with either, though.
Whatever is easiest is fine with me.
GM? What's the path of least resistance?