I'm assuming the general ruling is that the extra attack given by haste is at -2 because Rapid Shot says all attacks are at -2.
But... the haste rule reads that the attack is at full base attack.
Why would the reading of rapid shot overrule the reading of the spell? Isn't the spell the 'specific' in the 'general vs specific' rule? Doesn't the specific wording of the haste attack overrule the general wording of rapid shot's effect on attacks?
It's not a big deal, I'm seriously wondering why it would be interpreted that way.
Does rapid shot penalize base attack bonus or just give a flat -2 penalty?
Has there been an actual developer ruling or errata on haste and rapid shot? The descriptions of each are in conflict with each other. I don't see why it is automatically assumed that the rapid shot feat description (the general case here) overrules the haste extra attack description (the specific case here).
Haste says it gives you an extra attack at full Base Attack Bonus. Why does rapid shot overrule that? This seems inconsistent with the general 'specific overrules general" law.
Yes, I know haste gives a +1 to all attacks, so the overall effect of the spell with the likely common interpretation is that you're at BAB -1 to attack with haste.
And that's really plenty good enough for the spell. I truly am just trying to figure out why in this case specific isn't trumping general.
Rapid Shot (Combat)
You can make an additional ranged attack.Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
I KNOW that bigkilla. You aren't understanding what I'm asking.
Haste says "The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus"
Why in this case is the general rule trumping the specific one?
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Has there been an actual developer ruling or errata on haste and rapid shot? The descriptions of each are in conflict with each other. I don't see why it is automatically assumed that the rapid shot feat description (the general case here) overrules the haste extra attack description (the specific case here).
Haste says it gives you an extra attack at full Base Attack Bonus. Why does rapid shot overrule that? This seems inconsistent with the general 'specific overrules general" law.
Yes, I know haste gives a +1 to all attacks, so the overall effect of the spell with the likely common interpretation is that you're at BAB -1 to attack with haste.
And that's really plenty good enough for the spell. I truly am just trying to figure out why in this case specific isn't trumping general.
I do not see how they are in conflict with one another, you would simply have a extra attack from Rapid shot and a extra attack from Haste with a overall -1 to your BAB.
I do not see how they are in conflict with one another, you would simply have a extra attack from Rapid shot and a extra attack from Haste with a overall -1 to your BAB.
I don't think I can make the "general vs specific" rule thing any clearer bigkilla. Thanks for your input.
Anyone else want to try to answer it?
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Rapid shot penalizes the attack roll, which is above and beyond your base attack bonus. A tenth level fighter has a bab of +10, he then adds his str, say +5, then rolls a 17 on a d20. His attack roll is now 32. Rapid shot says take two away from that. He is still using his full bab, and he's still taking a -2 to his attack roll.
Yeah I was trying to make you realize that rapid shot doesn't penalize bab just attack rolls. Otherwise it might make you lose attacks when you use it.
Ah... so the rapid shot penalty is applied to all attack rolls, so the BAB isn't changing for the haste shot compared to the others...
Got it, that makes sense now.
Thanks.
Haste says "The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus"Why in this case is the general rule trumping the specific one?
There is no contradiction. It does not say: ignore penalties when making bonus attack from haste. It's just that when calculating extra attack from haste you use your full base attack bonus as a, well, base.
In 3.5 Rapid Shot used similar statement that the extra attack is made at highest base attack bonus.
EDIT: Actually the haste says "The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation."
Penalty for rapid shot is certainly modifier appropriate to the situation when firing hasted rapid shot.
FYI, the reason it says you use your highest base attack bonus is so you don't go around thinking you're supposed to make the extra attack with a lower iterative attack bonus.
Yep. I'm good now. Makes sense.