Trying to catch up on all the posts, will probably do so after work. Looks exciting
A brief note on casting spells while invisible... Pathfinder Rules as Written is very murky on it. I specifically was looking up the interaction for a character concept as what I was discovering some FAQs and Developer comments that casting in Pathfinder essentially has glowy "Look at me" runes that are obvious unless a couple different feats are used. The line of argument involves the weirdness that if you were in the dark while someone while someone used a silent, still spell, that you'd still know they were casting (without the use of a feat.)
Personally I think that's dumb, but I understand the effort to give mundanes a little bit of a safeguard against caster. I'm fine with however its ruled, as long as its consistent :)
Also, there is an extreme level of system knowledge and complication for the system, given that it's essentially 15+ years of Designer revisions :)
Rule Update II
As many of you know, during the week when I am at work I can access maps but other than that, I do all my posting on a note app (Simple Note) and my phone. For a multitude of reasons, that is difficult at best. I had a meeting run late, and posted a ton during lunch. In my haste to post, I missed a part of Benaiah's very robust turn:
The Grapples rules say that if I succeed at the grapple, I automatically move her to an adjacent open space next to me.
Since, on your turn, you have moved her to an adjacent square, she would get an AoO because you now occupy a square that she Threatens.
In the future it would be good to know for sure if someone gets an AoO if I grapple them and they aren't in melee at the time of the grapple being initiated.
In the future, the answer will be yes. The reason I caught this was because <redacted - see future recap post>.
Musing on Designing Encounters
As we know I am not a great rules GM by any means. I much prefer the role, but the roll is always fun and it is an aspect that I am trying to get better at. You are all such fantastic players that I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you are my players and you have all helped me so much.
Everytime I design an encounter, I ask myself 'Will this be fun for them and me'?
Now there are different versions of fun.
- Look at this cool environment and all the weird effects it creates eg. Underwater or Aerial Combat
- Weird or unique creatures eg. the Hadooze for me
- Unique abilities that make it challenging for PCs eg. those tandem trip builds - forgot what PFS that was. The knaves Disarming ability.
- Flat out, white knuckle, designed to be deadly eg. The staircase encounter in Heresy of Man, my Knifemaster in the last encounter.
This encounter was meant to be fun in the Unique Ability fashion. But can I just say that your singular turn Benaiah completely changed the encounter from a victory to a rout. My GM Special is going to flee with a ton of great spells not expended, eg. Ray of Exhaustion and Fireball and most importantly I wanted to be able to get the Handmaien out too. The GM Special had a get out of jail free card that she can no longer use because the Handmaiden is now out of range.
So once again, you all should feel proud that you did a great job!
For reference, the GM special is Amaryllis from NPC codex pg 168. The other NPCs I created. The Knaves were Level 3 Swashbucklers (Inspired Blades) with Coordinated Maneuvers and Improved Disarm. The Handmaiden is <redacted for now>.
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More thoughts for you -
Cool environment encounters - I agree, I think these can be fun*. The encounter in the elemental pre-gen special at Gen con should have been more fun, and I think would have been had we not had a terrible, unprepared GM.
Unique creatures - Definitely lots of potential for fun* - can make for some really great visuals too.
Unique abilities - I think this ties in with the next one because unique abilities often creates its own form deadly, white knuckled encounter. These are fun* in their own way for sure.
*The one caveat I would say to any of these is the character's ability to participate in any of these types of encounters. As I think back about examples, the common thread in a player not enjoying an encounter is their ability to participate/contribute.
I'm not sure I have the time to properly delve into an explanation of that last though... It might require being in person and beer. Or at least over hangouts. I don't think the above comment works as a general blanket statement. For example, I freaking hated pretty much everything in Heresy of Man. Maybe that's because I didn't understand it, but that damn staircase encounter was awful. That might be a bad example just because the scenario was so poorly written and designed. In contrast to that, I enjoyed myself quite a bit in the encounter against the crystalline ooze creature in the most recent RoW session. Ishbaad was mostly useless in that due greatly in part to some bad rolls, but it created some awesome opportunities for Marco, and once Ishbaad was rescued from his dire situation he was able to re-approach the fight from a different perspective.
Both of those combats had prolonged bouts of my character not being useful at all, with decidedly different enjoyment levels.
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On that fight in particular -
A very wise GM once told me "If you want a re-occurring villian, don't introduce them to the PCs unless you are willing for them to die in the first fight."
In this case, you had planned for the handmaiden to be able to escape, but circumstances made that nearly impossible.
In my opinion, that is the thing that is some of the most fun about Pathfinder, and gaming in general. It feels good to know that all of the time I spent creating the character and choices I made to tailor his abilities worked in such a way that he could overcome the obstacle. I don't want to break encounters because I am overpowered, I want to break encounters because I chose longarm and expeditious retreat to give my character a tactical advantage that counter-acted what should have been a tactical advantage for the opposition.
Fireball would have been very interesting after I had the handmaiden in the grapple. And maybe next time she will think about casting grease on herself... :)
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A GMing axiom I have is "Having a recurring villain physically present in a scene is a good way for them to no longer be a recurring villain." :)
It was more of a wanting to prolong the chasing of the Handmiden. For the Plot and Metaplot - totally fine that you captured her.
And yes, the entire party I felt had a meaning contribution to the team victory, but I wanted to highlight that singular turn as a seminal moment in the encounter.
Please make sure to read my debrief post as a reflection on my ability to design encounters not as a gripe as I previously expressed during the encounter.
You as players should feel proud of your accomplishment and hope that is reflected in my post.
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I totally read your debrief as exactly that, hopefully my comments didn't seem like I was point/counterpointing you - I just wanted to keep talking about some of those things you brought up for the sake of continuing the discussion. Rehashing how things went and why they went that direction is good for learning anyways, for player and GM. It's fun to talk about what was and what almost was, had things gone differently.
(Just not when you meet face to face for the first time and have already spent 13 hours at the gaming table that day...)
I agree with all.
I just want to add, too, to Steve's comment about the Heresey of man night stalker thing vs my crystal:
One encounter was screwing you over in complete darkness where you couldn't get at it.
The ooze encounter was screwing you over by having a cool crystal thing growing itself to attack you.
Effectiveness aside, I'd rather the latter any day. If you're going to get frustrated, you might as well see the thing that's f+**ing you over... and have it happen in a cool way.
By the way, the same encounter without GM buy-in and description could be awful. "The crystal ooze attacks again". "You didn't get past it's DR". Those things would make it suck.
On the flip side, the dark encounter could have been made very tense and atmospheric. "As you are enveloped in darkness, all you can hear from ahead is the scream of your comrade." vs "You can't see, take 20 damage."
Very happy that John is not the kind of GM to phone it in!
Yeah, one of the things I've noted make or break a lot of Pathfinder materials is the GM. Paizo really likes having interesting stuff... that only the GM would know unless they go out of their way to make it relevant. Otherwise it's just "What do you mean 'X' happened!? That makes no sense!"
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"Magnimar is a different story altogether. Why she decided to expand the business here is anyone's guess?"[/b]
So... Interesting thought. I think there may have been a disconnect when we originally were throwing around the idea of Mistress Lanvi as part of our collective backstory, and when you wanted to make her a more integral part of the main story.
When I originally imagined Lanvi she was an NPC to help me tell Gado's backstory. (go to the background spoiler and scroll down a little ways. You meet Bearface first, Lanvi's lieutenant, then eventually poor, pitiful Gado is brought to Lanvi. The synopsis is a shorter version)
My original thoughts on her was that she was an "infamous loan shark and crime syndicate queen known as Lanvi". She was a cleric of Calistria. Since temples to Calistria are actually just brothels, and the clerics/acolytes are prostitutes, I thought it was fitting that she also ran an information gathering underground business, using her prostitutes (acolytes of calistria) as the information gatherers, because people tend to overshare with the person they are sharing their bed with.
Anyways - in the original incarnation (in my head) she was always from Magnimar, she never had any association with Absalom. That's because Gado was from Magnimar, where Isle of Dread started, and I was just using her to help tell his story.
Somewhere in the transition I can see now that bit got a little lost in translation. This is totally fine of course, I have been curious since the beginning where you would take the character. Because I have had that very powerful image of her in my head since I created her, I have always pictured her current state as a dramatic turn of events, and a drastic change from her previous position of power. A fall from power, not so much an upstart newcomer...
So to answer your question... I'm not sure. I would have to think back farther in her story to come up with a reason why she would have come to Magnimar in the first place. The more I think about it, the more I think for now anyways it feels better left as a mystery..
I'm with Benaiah on the surprise that she's leveraging into Magnimar from Absalom and not the other way around!
That said, she's your NPC now, GM - and really has been since this all started. Keep up with it, I say! Make your own assertions about why she's in Magnimar. Loving the reveals.
That's right. I had her start in Absalom because I wanted the whole 'Leaving the society' start to the adventure.
And I do get the Calistria aspect - how do you think the Handmaiden convinced the Vanderale boy to divulge the family secret.
Oh well, onward and upward.
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So quick story because it's relevant.
When I was very young (single digits, I think I was about 7, in 2nd grade) we did a little exercise in my sunday school class. The idea was everyone sat around the table and took a piece of paper and drew 1 thing. Then the paper was passed to the next person, and you would add 1 thing to each drawing as it came to you, until you got your original paper back.
My teacher in school had been reading The Hobbit to us, and I was enamored by the story. So when I started my drawing, it was a very simple shape of the Lonely Mountain, with a small secret cave entrance near the bottom.
When it got back to me after going around to the other 15 kids in the class, it had turned into a princess, and the hill was the bottom part of her dress, the door had turned into her shoe.
I cried.
Ha! Anyways, I look back on that now and see the lesson in it. The point of telling that story is just like Arimar said - She is your character now. Have fun with it, I know I am. (seriously, no tears this time) You didn't get anything 'wrong', just different from my initial perceptions. If anything, that's my fault for assuming parts of your story, not yours for 'misunderstanding' where I started from.
FYI - the 'Leaving the Society' thing was so appropriate, thematic, and perfect. Loved it and wouldn't change how you did it a bit.
Forgot to mention that I'm heading up to Canada for a wedding. Patchy posting from me until Monday, but still should get my daily allotment in. Last minute packing and just found a little time now to post this snippet and get onto some neglected emails...
I'll be posting more often than Gwen in any case.
I'll be posting more often than Gwen in any case.
Sick burn, dude.
True and fair, but it still hurts :D
On to some quick game talk, Gwen would definitely take the handmaiden's ring of protection +1, but I only if all of our other 3 front liners already have one. I haven't made any gear purchases for Gwen in a while either, so I'd definitely like to do that at this point. Not sure yet exactly what she'll pick up yet/what would be most useful, maybe I'll upgrade her armor. I'll look through the options over the next day or two, and pick something out.
Think this is a nice time to take the foot off the gas. Expect me to move this along by Sunday night so be ready. Unless you are done sooner and then I am/can be ready.
True and fair, but it still hurts :D
Maybe it'd hurt less if you'd post in gameplay instead of whining in discussion...
... and I can't keep it up. You know I love you, mate, and am envious that you have better things to do with your time than post online.
@GM: (and others) How would you feel about using the downtime rules (specifically, those around buildings and organizations)? This would be some time in the future, and used for managing the establishments of our impromptu House of Lanvi? I'd be more than happy to do up a group spreadsheet for managing such things, and it might give us a more concrete representation of our 'business empire', so to speak.
Hepec, I imagine, would act as a manager, and maybe so would even Lanvi herself!
I know this was probably outside of the scope of the game that you set forth, John, but the rules really do seem to be a good match for our situation.
I'll have a look see. Tomorrow might be great for free time, or I might have NONE.
In the meantime - do you all need a Loot Spreadsheet created? I can make one or if someone makes it send me the link and I'll add it to the Campaign.
So I did have quite some free time yesterday = what a gift!
I spent a few hours reading over the Downtime rules, making some spreadsheets, and what not. Interesting system. Like all Pathfinder, I felt it a bit too complex, a bit too detailed. And then lacking the detail I was looking for. What an irony.
Bottom line, glad I spent the time, and many thanks for the idea, but at this time it would be too much time spent for PCs unfamiliar with the rule set to learn and apply for the pay off.
For as you see, my micro plots blossomed into a macro plot in and of itself. We need to get back to the Fountain Plotline proper!
Ready when you all are :)
Apologies for going quiet; I had some personal stuff come up this weekend. Will try and catch up.
Hey boys, me too (re: yesterday). I caught up before 7am, and decided to wait for someone else to chime in before posting myself... but then never found the time. I hope this morning's mega-post makes up for it. ;-)
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So - Two random and disparate thoughts to share with you.
1. I have always wanted to roll up a wizard who was a golem maker and have a little army of golems to follow me around. I never found an adventure that was both practical enough to do it, or that would stick around longer than two gaming sessions. I am feeling inspired to just roll up the character and see what it would look like... I do have a certain fondness in my heart for wizards, since that is primarily what I played when I first started gaming 24 years ago...
2. Almost a year ago I went to a dog track in Florida when we were visiting my mom for spring break. I went in with $60, won $6, then spent that last $6 on a moonshot bet.
And won $600.
So now I both love the dog track, and simultaneously can't wait to adopt a greyhound. Heh... Maybe I'll have Benaiah do it in game... Something has to break him from his addiction... :)
Real quick, should we give the handmaiden's ring of protection +1 to one of our front liners? I'm sure one of you can use it, I just wondered who was actually taking it.
If we already decided this and I missed it, my bad!
Already have one. Wouldn't be a very good front liner without one! Take it. ;-)
Now, if only I can stay conscious...
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So I think I've got this right. Please correct me if I am wrong.
We have the gear from the assassin's ambush -
Hooded man's gear:
- +2 mithral chain shirt
- +1 dagger x8
- belt of incredible dexterity +2
- gloves of storing
- Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds
- 150 gp
Half-elf gear:
- +2 ironwood chainmail
- +1 cold iron sickle
- druid's vestment
- potion of cure moderate wounds
- 150 gp
How much of that did we keep, or did we let them keep their stuff since we didn't kill them? Skim-reading back through it it looks like at one point Arimar gave the man a dagger back, witty end first, but we kinda dropped it from there.
Then we have the most recent haul from the Handmaiden -
potion of cure moderate wounds (2)
potion of eagle's splendor
mwk leather armor
+1 dagger
light crossbow
ring of protection +1
1,603 gp.
Dagger, Armor and crossbow would all sell for 1248gp. Add that to the 1603 and you get 2851.
Malgrim and I can take a Cure Mod potion, Arimar the Eagle's Splendor potion. Pro Ring to Gwen, and we all split the remaining gold 4 ways for a total of 712.75 each.
Sound ok?
I believe that, in return for a good working relationship, we left the Derexhi siblings with their gear.
Thanks for dealing with the loot! Happy with a 4-way cash split on anything we don't use. It is actually the AD&D recommended way! Now, we just need to negotiate a 1 GP = 1 XP deal and we'll be set...
Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
Moving along in the morning with the plan to meet with House Mindurian
Hey there, I wanted to provide an update and a bit more explanation as to what all has been going on. I'm keeping things somewhat vague, but if anyone wants more details, send me a PM.
You ever have one of those weekends that start with excitement and grand aspirations as to getting caught up on gaming, and then life wrecks your car? That was my weekend. Plus, between then and now the dealership managed to lose said car, which I had to help track down. Between everything my head really hasn't been in the game (pun intended.) The fact that I'm punning *is* a good sign, and I've carved out a few hours tonight I plan on spending on game stuff. So, thanks for being patient and hope everyone is doing well.
Man, that sucks really hard. I'm assuming you're uninjured - or at least only mildly! Hope all goes well and better from here.
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No worries man. If we ever meet in real life I'll buy you a beer and tell you about the time I took my car to get it fixed. $4000 and a month later (most of that time I couldn't get anyone to return my calls or tell me where my car was) I got it back. We can commiserate in our auto-misery together.
Hope you are well! We will be here. :)
Can I come too?
The bang about half-way in is the sound of my air bags going off... to the tune of $5,000.
Youtube CTS-V (sound required)
There was a mic on the exhaust, not in the cabin... so that hopefully gives you some idea of how loud it was when it went off.
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Wow.... I was cringing the whole time waiting for it. What made them go off? That's crazy!
-Posted with Wayfinder
What made them go off? Nobody knows. Best guess is a malfunctioning sensor.
I didn't hit so much as a traffic cone on my way around. I've got the race card to prove it. Would have made pretty good time on that lap if the airbags didn't explode.
@GM: I know there was a lot to go through, so I totally understand that you missed it... but can I please have an answer on this?
I recall that we didn't want to reveal all the details to everyone, but I couldn't remember how much and to whom. I think it was at Khania's recommendation, but it could well have been simply what we decided. If you don't know off hand, I'll trawl back through the posts to find out.
I did not miss it. I thought that it was a question to the group. It is really up to you all.
This is what you told Ontor and Luma.
Totally up to you on this one.
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I'll just offer that we were initially being coy to try to keep the attention down. That might be less important now, since it seems like our enemies at least figured out that we were doing something they didn't want... or perhaps it was just as simple as they didn't like us because we were allied with Lanvi, and therefore just didn't want to deal with us.
Meh... I think I talked myself into leaning towards being a bit coy - we are about to meet with the gossip after all... The less details she can spread to everyone else she speaks with, the better.
I think we can take it as it comes. Being a gossip, information is probably quite valuable to her.
Thanks for the links, by the way, GM. I think the cat is already out of the bag, so let's not be too reluctant to talk about things. After all, we want her help and trust is a two way street (as we've discovered with Lanvi).
Safe travels. Hope it is somewhere fun.
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Lakeville Minnesota, internal engineering summit.
I've already suggested we go somewhere warm next time and play golf.
Should be a good boondoggle.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Maybe... my first thought was the Collector - but she hasn't mentioned anything that would suggest to me that she would even know who that is.
The other could be the Vanderales, but my impression was that they were more victims in this than anything else.
Are my assumptions on either of the above two wrong?
One of those is correct. One is wrong. But your right answer has the wrong assumption with it.
Sorry for the delay everyone. Work hours have been crazy this week, crashing on multiple projects that are due tomorrow. I'll try to get a post up today to catch up!
One of those is correct. One is wrong. But your right answer has the wrong assumption with it.
Thanks mate.
So, it must be the Collector, then. She alluded to someone else, but I didn't realize it could be him. Re-reading, it makes more sense. Any input from anyone else?
"So tell me more about this fountain. You say once per day, when the waters are stirred, can heal anyone, of anything?"
When telling her things, I quite purposely did not tell her about the Fountain only operating once per day! It's not the sort of thing someone would assume (and we wouldn't have, if we hadn't been told by the Sarenites). Did she just make some kind of slip here and reveal that she knew more than we would otherwise expect?
GM error on the once per day. Blame PbP, lag time between stories, RL
As for your assertions ::not telling:: ;)
Map updated