Sorry, the weekend got busy. I'll get us updated today.
Yup, Istiel still has sanity damage and a lesser madness (hallucinations). She's not the type to admit she has problems or get help though, so it's there to stay for the foreseeable future. In fact she doesn't think there's anything really wrong at the moment.
I typically have it manifest when it's a convenient way to show conflicting morals or thoughts in a visceral way.
She's also convinced her dead master has become a god and is speaking to her, but who knows maybe he really is sometimes? That's for BP to decide and me to have fun with.
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The trouble I'm having is for one thing I don't think Oios is unpopular or that his leadership has been defective in any way. He's delegated authority widely, he's only stepped in when he's felt it necessary, and every time he made a momentous decision he's always made a long long speech (sometimes multiple) to the community to explain why he made the decision he did. By the standards of the 'time' that I understand of this world and setting he's wearing a very very thick velvet glove to hide his iron hand, to the point that some of the other characters have expressed irritation at him for not being a more decisive leader.
So, we have a disagreement on how well Oios is doing as a leader. That's fine and no problem at all. He might be virulently hated by all the NPCs. I didn't think so but I'm not in charge of that.
The more pressing disagreement seems to be though, from PCs and NPCs, on how fractious the caravan is that the PCs are leading through crisis after crisis after crisis to a completely uncertain future right in the aftermath of their entire world being burned to the ground and what it would take to keep it together.
We have Tkoyah vs Tsinyah vs Tooyah, we have Shadeholmer Tsinyah natives vs everybody else, we have a Tkoyah noble with leadership aspirations and a revenge motive swanning about with her personal guard, We have a Tkyoah Shadow who has seized control of the group, we have a Carapatuar and Frozen who are viewed with suspicion, we have two of the leaders of the armed forces at logger heads on how harsh the armed forces should be. Exemplifying this we just had an old man so adamant in his xenophobia and racism that he would rather spit invective at the monk and barbarian heroes that killed dozens of enemy warriors and saved his life rather than mutter an apology to an acknowledged leader, who was formerly of a scary shadow organization, in a society used to death being commanded for far lesser offenses.
In this very fraught situation Oios feels that maintaining at least some semblance of unity for long enough to get out of danger is of absolute paramount importance. And that, to him, requires an authority that's only challenged in private. It's why he's done pretty much everything that he has. Hell he just gave Isitel, a person who's a supporter of him, a talking to for stepping 'out of line' according to him and 'going vigilante'. And now he is being publicly undermined when all he did was ask some very simple and straightforward questions that were meant to hopefully come up with a plan where, in the future, the scroll could possibly be used to lure the Flame into a trap or lead them astray while also saving the people Nat is trying to save.
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Honestly I am just completely stumped. I think I've written Oios into a complete fluff dead end here. His understanding of leadership and the current situation and my understanding of the setting have left me completely nonplussed. He's absolutely terrified of the scroll and he didn't even want to be in charge in the first place.
Maybe GMBP's gameplay post will smooth things over. It might be useful to bot Oios for a bit and I'll adjust to whatever happens after the fact.
By the way Oios, I forgot to explain this OOC (because Istiel does not often explain herself IC), but the only reason Istiel went after Gent is because she proclaimed Rock was under her protection when he was introduced to the group.
She had to keep her word, and did so. If she had not made the proclamation she likely would have let Oios handle the situation in its entirety, but at the moment she felt responsible for metting out punishment.
BP I found you some inspiration for your next moral dilemma.
You're welcome.
OK, so as I mentioned earlier, I put you all in a tough spot without really considering the implications.
Nat's player asked if there was a way to get her village into the game, and the scroll was the way that made the most sense, with everything set up as it is.
Of course, I figured the Flame would want the location of any that escape their control, but I didn't really think beyond that. I certainly didn't take into account the strong reactions that this would bring. And so, my bad.
I will say this, from a metagame standpoint: in general, I'm not going to punish you all for doing the "right" thing. Yes, the Flame would like to have the information of your location, but regardless (again from a meta standpoint), they're going to find it out one way or another. I'm not going to show up with another army and burn your fledgling village to the ground (again). If another army shows up, it will only be when you've got the means to beat it. Or at least a fair shot at it, dice gods willing.
More likely, there would be attempts to subvert and weaken your society in preparation for an invasion.
So, my suggestion is, punt. Think on it, and when you've got allies and/or a plan and/or a trap then use the scroll.
Thanks, Istiel - I'm off to a couple of meetings, so I'll check that out later, and address some other points that were raised over the weekend in a bit...
Yup, Istiel still has sanity damage and a lesser madness (hallucinations). She's not the type to admit she has problems or get help though, so it's there to stay for the foreseeable future. In fact she doesn't think there's anything really wrong at the moment.
I typically have it manifest when it's a convenient way to show conflicting morals or thoughts in a visceral way.
She's also convinced her dead master has become a god and is speaking to her, but who knows maybe he really is sometimes? That's for BP to decide and me to have fun with.
Sounds cool! I foresee some (more) epic roleplaying in your future :-)
I see that xkcd has already looked at the trolley problem/midwife's dilemma, in its own inimitable fashion.
I'm going to toss in Drazan's decision here, but before that my understanding is this. Nat wants to give the First Flame the location of the flight's new settlement location in exchange for what's left of her people.
Given Drazan's developing faith, and several obligations he has given he would be absolutely opposed to the proposition, or at least at face value. But when left with two bad options, why don't we come up with a third option? Rescue her people by either tricking the flame into thinking we have a new home, or just putting together a posse and saving these people through old fashion heroics? Keeping the new settlement a secret for as long as possible is really really important to ending the feeling of overwhelming oppression from the First Flame, even if it is only temporary given the inevitability declared above.
[Edit] Just read the latest post. Drazan agrees with Cogs
^ Yes!!!! You're not limited to one of two outcomes. Be creative. Again, you've got time to figure it out.
@ Istiel and Nat, huh yeah, I guess it is a trolley problem. Whoops. I'll be more conscious of this in the future.
Other things:
1) Oios is not an unpopular leader. Some people dislike him, some people like him. People are largely willing to give him a lot of rope right now. If he turns into an autocrat once things are safer, then that may not be the case. Gent was a special case, in that he represents that side of humanity that will always be contrarian and in opposition (and that personality type that will go down with the ship rather than budge).
2) Nat has cued in on something that I've tried to seed the campaign with, but I'm not sure how successful I've been: Takayan society was largely an unequal one, in terms of race, region, and wealth, and its leadership had grown complacent and blind to the plight of its people. Hence, heavy tributes without context or negotiation, upper classes literally living above the lower ones, growing slums as more and more rural folk moved to the capital, a barely noticed or cared about (by the rulers) religious awakening, and a society heavily weighted towards respecting authority and punishing towards dissent.
I'm not saying that the Valley would have won a fight against the Flame and the Frozen had it had better leadership, but it certainly wouldn't have folded as quickly as it did.
And that's not to say that there aren't great things about Tkayan society; its people are resourceful, its upper classes educated, there's a lot of good tradition to have and hold dear, and the tribute system provides a mechanism for delivery of goods, people, and education throughout the Valley that would be unavailable otherwise.
Now, you all can recreate Takayan society down to crocodile mound, and there will be those folk that are all for it (coincidentally I'm sure, they will be people that largely benefited from that society). Others will want other things, and they will advocate for those things. Some people will want things (whether status quo or otherwise) for selfish ends, and some will think it is for the best.
But the winds of change, they be blowing.
So, taking into account that your GM didn't think things through all the way here, and that it opens up the possibility for y'all to do some interesting things down the line, are we good to move onto Desnus 9 where y'all can take out your frustrations on some things in the lake?
Let's repair the tears of distrust among our own ranks with some hostile lake creature diplomacy! ;)
Oh when the time comes I'm sure the creativity will come out in droves, and I hope we set a trap of exquisite proportions.
@ Istiel and Nat, huh yeah, I guess it is a trolley problem. Whoops. I'll be more conscious of this in the future.
Firstly, there's nothing to be sorry for, this is awesome! Secondly, there's nothing wrong with a trolley problem, it's a staple of moral philosophy. Thirdly, because I was taught to write three points in the bodies of essays by the wonderful USA education system, this isn't really a trolley problem because the choice isn't binary. We can (unfortunately for you) do whatever the hell we want, and you can (unfortunately for us) respond however you wish.
Breaking it down to mechanics, it's a great way for us to potentially gain more resources/people with the risk of alerting our nemeses of our location. The moral bit is just icing on the roleplaying cake!
On the note of disparagement between classes in Takayan society- you have done really well to paint this picture. It's unfortunate Istiel doesn't nor has ever cared, but that's her fault, not yours. Maybe one day she'll realize she can't protect people from starvation by punching out hunger, but now is not the time.
SPEAKING OF PUNCHING
D6 DIPLOMACY TIME MY FRIENDS, LET'S INTRODUCE OURSELVES TO THE LOCALS
Imix cares about the disparity.
Imix believes that the only way to support the high-value-add professions that are a communal good (like priests, professional soldiers, engineers and bureaucrats) is to have a subset of the population that produces excess food so those people don't have to concentrate on day to day survival. Learning their jobs takes a decade of dedicated study. Farmers can't afford that time, and breaking it out piecemeal means by the time they've learned it they're about to die of old age (assuming a 5:1 ratio).
Right now we're burning through our surplus. All the engineers are getting older, and no-one is being trained to replace them, for instance.
That's fair, because we're in a survival situation. Making everyone into the lowest common denominator though... down that way lies a descent into primitive savagery.
If you try to convince him against a ruling class, you'll need to come at it as "The resources spent to support this concept would be better spent supporting X because..."
Imix cares about the disparity.
Imix believes that the only way to support the high-value-add professions that are a communal good (like priests, professional soldiers, engineers and bureaucrats) is to have a subset of the population that produces excess food so those people don't have to concentrate on day to day survival. Learning their jobs takes a decade of dedicated study. Farmers can't afford that time, and breaking it out piecemeal means by the time they've learned it they're about to die of old age (assuming a 5:1 ratio).
Hot damn, I just had a hell of a revelation.
Tangentally; Imix's background has him as almost atheist before the campaign because he didn't believe that godsworn magic actually came from the gods.
That is, the the gods were watching, and removed power from 'bad' worshippers.
This is what I thought we had, and it is sort of backed up by the fact that Lady Bellet believed a shadow priest could break all his sworn oaths to frame a man and still get given (more) divine power.
Is this a legitimate belief? Given time Imix could use Suriname Theurgy to manifest a creature that was indistinguishable from a Herald. Should he be taking this manifestation of the tacit approval of the gods, or simply that Nat has started swinging her magic power around?
Note, I'm not asking about the truth. Just what has been observed. How often have priests lost access to their divine power after committing crimes?
Agree with Istiel on this - having to face these sorts of problems is a great foil for roleplay. And as a midwife, Nat's no stranger to the concept that sometimes you have to make the least worst choice - if you can even figure out what that is.
As for the class/disparity issue, I don't think it will come up that often; it's just a part of Nat's background that creates some interesting tensions.
Onward to d6 diplomacy?
Haha, I love Imix.
Regarding religion in general, I am a fan of Eberron's approach. The gods are distant, and clerics don't have to be bound by alignment to receive spells. It opens the door for some interesting things - like corrupt priests of "good" religions and/or religious structures not exactly practicing what they preach.
So, yes, in general the gods are removed enough (Nat's Herald notwithstanding) that you can interpret magic as you wish.
Of course, Nat's Herald will be interpreted by many as direct intervention of the gods and Ayida-Wedu's grace (as was the religious movement in Cornucopia). Whether or not that is actually the fact is a matter of interpretation.
Going forward, more direct involvement by the gods seems likely.
Let me know if you're bringing any NPCs with you. Imix mentioned bringing some.
Going forward, my default assumption for things like scouting will be that all PCs and no NPCs are going along, unless you tell me otherwise.
I second loving Imix. I hope for an Istiel/Imix team-up one day.
As for bringing npcs; just Rock if he wants to come along. Figured he'd want a stab at the things that killed his tribe.
The D&D gods strike me as the ultimate big-picture types: it might look like a follower is blatantly abusing the power given them (that follower may even be deliberately intending to abuse the power given them), but in the long run their actions ultimately serve that god's interests.
Only the DM of any given setting knows the real truth, but good luck getting them to spill ;-)
Sorry, hectic day at work today. I may not get an update in.
I'm leaving town tomorrow through the weekend. Depending on how quickly replies come in, I may be able to get another post up, but if not, I'll see you all next week!
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I updated our group loot (Oios' handy haversack)
Here is a reminder of its contents before our impending fight:
Saltpeter (2)
Phosphorous (2)
Alchemist's Fire (4)
Alchemist's Lab (portable)
Tindertwigs (9)
Black Fester (2)
Cure Moderate Wounds (4)
Brewed Reek (2)
Explosive Pitch (15)
Ifrit's Blood (2)
Antitoxin (2)
Tanglefoot bag (2)
Barbarian chew (5)
Tea, Night (10)
Potion of Remove Curse (1)
Potion of Remove Disease (1)
Potion of Remove Blindness/Deafness (1)
Potion of Tongues (1)
Potion of Fly (1)
Potion of Lesser Restoration (1)
Okay, I just discovered the reason everyone was ignoring my post was because it never actually made it to the site.
:(
Will write up, and repost.
Ugh that is the worst feeling. It never ends up being the same and just feels like a chore.
Am I interpreting correctly that your enhancements at the pools give all of us +4 STR and +4 DEX?
'das the plan.
Pretty much blows his payload, but it lasts a good hour and a half so is probably worth it.
Strength for swimming & climbing.
Dex for reflex/dodging.
Everything is good for fighting, of course.
Strength for swimming & climbing
Thankfully Istiel's diplomacy skill is modified by strength. (Warning: I will never stop telling this joke.)
Pretending I didn't mess up on the timeline
Wow Imix, that was a breathtaking piece of roleplaying. I will need time to craft a proper response (which I don't have right this moment).
Sorry it was so long. Stuff is crazy at the moment, and I didn't have a chance to make it shorter.
Triggered by that thought piece above about why Imix is so predjudiced, and then going "but he himself undermines that" at the exact time Nat was summoning para-gods.
Good stuff, Imix!
Hot damn, I just had a hell of a revelation.
Tangentally; Imix's background has him as almost atheist before the campaign because he didn't believe that godsworn magic actually came from the gods.
That is, the the gods were watching, and removed power from 'bad' worshippers.
This is what I thought we had, and it is sort of backed up by the fact that Lady Bellet believed a shadow priest could break all his sworn oaths to frame a man and still get given (more) divine power.
Imix, one thing I've just remembered: this is (supposedly) a low-magic world, so most priests don't have any power anyway. Nat didn't have any magic until she was gifted it after the fall of Cornucopia. So there'd never be any obvious sign that a priest has 'fallen' - powers they never had can't be removed.
Or maybe the fact they didn't have power is a sign that the priesthood as a whole was out of favour - like I said, trying to second guess a DM is an exercise in futility.
Low-magic, no. Low-frequency magic, yes, if that distinction makes sense. Most people are not magic wielders, obviously. Most priests even, are not magic wielders.
Whether this dearth of magic is because the magic is difficult to master (in other words, there is something in the content of one's character besides an 11 in an ability score), or because of the strictures of Takayan society (magic is guarded and secretive and for the elites), or both, will be determined by what you all's end goals are.
If you want to teach magic to every layman with an 11 in a score, I'm for it. If you want to limit it based on caste or tutelage or something else, I'm for it too.
And remember folks, magic doesn't kill people; eldritch horrors summoned from beyond the Void, kill people.
OK, quick logistical question: The thing is in the lake. Are you swimming/wading, taking a boat, other?
So we can't figure out what it is without going into the lake?
I guess we could use our potion of Fly... seems a bit of a waste though. I guess boat? Swimming seems like a poor idea.
Edit: Actually, Drazen has enough of a swim speed he could figure out what it is fairly quickly, yeah?
^ Yes, you have to go into the lake.
And yes, if Drazan makes it back...
^ Yes, you have to go into the lake.
And yes, if Drazan makes it back...
Sounds like a dare. I'm on it.
Awww yeah. Drazen is a hammer, and everything is a nail.
Really really don't feel up to roleplaying Oios at the moment but dont' want to hold the game up any longer.
Your posts are a joy to read Oios, but you don't have to push it. You can just tell us what Oios is doing in a few lines and leave it at that. The roleplays and character interactions can be followed up on later. Take the time you need to focus on your life- we'll still be here when things settle down.
I hope that time comes soon. I greatly enjoy reading your speeches!
^ Me too, Oios, sorry to hear it. I'm happy to bot Oios (or he can stay behind).
Working a weird schedule today. Update will be tonight.
Is there anything we can do to help, Oios?
How are you all approaching the tower?
Sorry, unexpectedly busy weekend. Will post soon.
I'd say we approach by boat!
Sorry Imix, I just realized I forgot to reply to your post in the private council meeting about the "censoring". I actually meant "censur" (the word that Telowo actually used), but hit the wrong vowel.
Will get to it soonish.
Well I was double wrong, Telowo didn't use the word censur until talking to Oios later. Damn brain... Well, hopefully you get the point.
Will wait for Imix to try the words of peace before playing punch the rock-man. If Istiel needs to wait for this round to end to make that happen I'm fine with that.
Also, BP, my mind's ear played the old school Transformers cartoon sound effect while reading your description of the Nargun "unpacking".
Also, BP, my mind's ear played the old school Transformers cartoon sound effect while reading your description of the Nargun "unpacking".
Damnit, now mine does too!
The fact they smell like decaying earth makes me worry these are the earth equivalents of the cursed pool.
Still, better to try, I guess.