I don't like subdividing the scene in mutually exclusive time lines since I don't like contradictions. The problem was created by overlooking that Eirikr joined us at our table.
However, that everyone hears everything in a normal conversation, unless they are deliberately trying to, does not seem plausible to me. With only a few guests around the situation is relatively fluent, and yet, what happens on one table does not usually influence that which happens on another directly, thus, it does make sense to track it individually.
The point is not to create an artificial privacy, but maintain plausibility. Whether or not someone is sitting at the same table while Nathara is eating makes a difference to the scene and the social dynamics involved. How she react to people who happen to be in the same public room or happen to share her table involves them on a different level. To discard that difference would be neglecting the physical environment to me and reducing the scene to the characters alone.
With so few people in a relatively small environment, it is of course plausible that everyone hears everything, but people are still not usually engaged in the same conversation. The situation at the moment is special in that regard because - right now - Nathara and Mouse are actually conversing across tables.
Likewise, though, and something you may be overlooking, is that Inire is being terrible dinner company to Evelyn, and focusing on the conversations of others as opposed to conversations of their own. She's actually writing down impressions and snippets from your conversation into her book.
It's more akin, for her at the moment, to sitting in a bar and watching the news on a television. :)
Also, Scribe isn't really anything special beyond a rare blade at the moment. Sadly, masterwork is well above what my characters afford. Thankfully, though, it will have a chance to grow. (I'm a huge fan of automated bonus progression for this very reason) :)
I realize that... hence the constraint "unless they are deliberately trying to".
I think that while it is true that it isn't terribly realistic to have people keeping up with everything in the tavern, it's also not a very good idea to unreality overnight when it becomes exclusive as opposed to inclusive. I fully agree that if you make efforts to hide a conversation, it'll be difficult to follow, but if you're having a normal conversation, most of the people can keep up with it, if they aren't in one of their own. Likewise, boisterous tables (and boisterous actions) will merit a lot more people taking notice.
As it stands, it can really go either way, but having three different streams of time, when we can instead have them flowing simultaneously with relative ease, just seems... needlessly difficult and exclusive.
I actually was in an RP for years that was mostly done in a tavern setting. I played a bartender/armchair psychologist for the majority of it. "I couldn't have heard that" frequently ended in people being left out... so I am very loathe to go that route.
I am not concerned about secrecy in this matter. Of course you can overhear the conversation. It's more about the awareness of the environment and the implied social dynamics. If there is not say there is no separation that means everyone is everywhere at the same time and you need to react to everyone as though they are directly with you.
As to what you know about the Nathara: She has told Tiferet pretty much everything on her character sheet. She did keep some things quiet, not to cut fellow player characters out, but to because talking about certain things aloud in public is not something Nathara would do. That would be everything that deals directly with demons, cultic rituals or anything that might be a crime. Whether or not you heard that anyway is up to you.
PS: At this point it does not make a lot of sense in the given situation anymore. There is the table with Evelyn and Mouse, and there is a the table with all other player characters, and Mouse is talking to Eirikr and Nathara across the across the room... so there is basically only one scene, because even Evelyn would be automatically involved.
Oh, if everyone is ready to move forward, I am fine with that.
I think we're knee-deep in Eirikr now. :)
lol, that's perfectly fine too. :)
Let the endless winter take over, we've got a fire, a tavern, and plenty of stories to tell.
Easiest campaign you've ever GM'ed, right ?
Easy certainly. You guys are carrying the RP entirely on your own right now :) All I have to do it watch and wait for people to be ready to move on and occasionally have the bartender do something.
I'm ready to move on if the others are, Eve's just preping to stop anything bad from happening atm
Once at least three people decide to turn in for the night in gameplay, I'll move on to the next morning. I'd hate to force people to drop the conversation in the middle of it. If you're good to move on, feel free to turn in. The same goes for everyone of course.
Also, just because I went ahead and put the blade away doesn't mean you can't comment on it. :) I'm perfectly fine with actions being interjected and replying to them. That's pretty normal for anything that moves relatively quickly!
erm... one limitation to what I said earlier before I forget it. Nathara has not told Tiferet the location of Twilight Rose Keep, nor anything about the environment in which it is set, only that it is hidden between the material world and the ethereal.
I don't think it matters, I just wanted to mention it.
PS: @Inire Good that you mention it. I was just going to write how disappointed Nathara was that she was ... cut off. (ok, bad pun) ;)
Knows everything but not the nature nor the location of the Twilight Keep. Got it.
:) Yeah, if I write 'past you' it's literally, past your actions. Once you've seen it, she'll be putting it back away with care. :)
I also believe I'm good to go once this scene with Eirikr dries out – it's time to let the GM have his fun too!
Yep. I enjoyed this playing simultaneously very much, though.
Yes. In the end, I believe everything clicked in very organically.
And... off to bed. Let's see what the morning brings. :D
I'm fine with moving along if everyone else is.
I haven't explicitely stated that Nathara turns in yesterday - I hope that was not holding you up.
Nope. We're just in different time zones. I'm just woke up. Posting now.
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Looks I'm the only one wearing armor heavier than light.
As such, I'm slowing down the whole party and I'm the only one who needs to slip out of it before going to sleep.
So... we have a competitor for a mithral breastplate?
Well, I suppose Nathara's Chain shirt isn't simplicity itself either, it likely has additional buckles, fortifications and smaller platings, in order to distribute the weight. Otherwise she would carry the chain shirt with shoulders and breasts alone, and having about, say 1/4 of the weight directly on the breasts would probably become seriously unpleasant very soon.
A mithral breastplate counts as light armour, except one must still be proficient with medium armour to use it without penalty. Thus I'll have to invest a feat eventually. Unlike other magi, spelldancers do not get a proficiency with medium armour.
PS: Given the morning schedule... Nathara is likely among the slowest... one hour for preparing spells at least. Unless she hasn't used one, like today.
So... we have a competitor for a mithral breastplate?
Well, I suppose Nathara's Chain shirt isn't simplicity itself either, it likely has additional buckles, fortifications and smaller platings, in order to distribute the weight. Otherwise she would carry the chain shirt with shoulders and breasts alone, and having about, say 1/4 of the weight directly on the breasts would probably become seriously unpleasant very soon.
A mithral breastplate counts as light armour, except one must still be proficient with medium armour to use it without penalty. Thus I'll have to invest a feat eventually. Unlike other magi, spelldancers do not get a proficiency with medium armour.
You probably know this already, but if you don't want to waste a feat on it, there's always this (admittedly costlier) option. It's specifically defined as light, instead of counting as such in regard to various limitations.
It may also be worthwhile to look into the armor mastery path ability; it takes a bit of investment, but allows full maneuverability regardless of the armor type. (But costs multiple tiers of investment, yuck).
It's a decent investment for a magus, especially one like a kensai, as it makes it not have spell failure at all. They're one of the few who can get real benefit from it. :)
You probably know this already, but if you don't want to waste a feat on it, there's always this (admittedly costlier) option. It's specifically defined as light, instead of counting as such in regard to various limitations.
"Know" is relative. I have had the same conversation before and someone suggested it... but I had entirely forgotten it. Rules are not my strong side.
Thanks.
It may also be worthwhile to look into the armor mastery path ability; it takes a bit of investment, but allows full maneuverability regardless of the armor type. (But costs multiple tiers of investment, yuck).
It's a decent investment for a magus, especially one like a kensai, as it makes it not have spell failure at all. They're one of the few who can get real benefit from it. :)
Hrm... Like any magus, Nathara does not suffer from arcane spell failure as long as she is wearing light armor.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus#TOC-Weapon-and-Armor-Pro ficiency
It also removes Max Dex limits and Armor Check Penalties, which is nice.
*sigh* I love it when the game goes fast, but posts get seriously overlapping. That he was brought into a building was not taken into account - had a rough trade and printed the posts, since I find it easier to read on paper. By the time I formulated an answer it was already obsolete.
I would advise hitting preview one more time right before you post. The page updates with anything new whenever you do, so then you can go back and make adjustments if someone's done something that changes your post.
And speed penalties, should one be inclined to grab it twice and take mithral full plate. Not really suggested, though... that's some expensive (if awesome) AC.
Taking it once essentially allows you to keep raising dexterity even in mithral breastplate without ever hitting a limit. Likewise, you don't need the medium armor proficiency if it doesn't have an armor check penalty.
So, basically, it'd be medium armor proficiency on steroids, if you wanted to take it, or were feat starved. :)
I am having trouble logging into paizo from my computer so currently I have to post by phone, which is going to slow down my posts, sorry
No worries. Everyone has computer troubles at some point.
Just so long as it isn't overly frustrating to you, nothing to worry about! :)
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Sorry about the massive post. I would like to emphasize that I don't mean it in a way that Nathara is asking those questions all at once, but I want to avoid a question and answer game that may take weeks in a forum game.
Originally I had not wanted to let Nathara do so much talking in the first place, because Nathara trusts Tiferet to ask for the important things, especially considering that Nathara is relatively inexperienced and knows that she might miss important details or put too much weight on unimportant things. But with so much dialogue going on I was beginning to fear she might get outstripped.
I've already omitted some of the questions Nathara had, mainly those that probe the nature of the bandits involved in the attack and their relation to the fey.
I also would like know if you would like me to scale down on Nathara's inner monologue, so that the posts become shorter. There are a few paragraphs in my last post which are not absolutely necessary.
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One longer post structured as a series of bullet points from time to time can actually speed up things, especially if coming during the deader hours IMHO.
I'm waiting for the guy to tell us about the chances of finding other survivors at the attack site (though I suspect they're slim). If he says there's even the slightest possibility, Tiferet would press to mount a rescue operation as soon as possible. If not, she'd insist on spending at least some time preparing. Cold-weather outfits and alchemist's fire are probably the most important things to get; she'd also like to talk with the local priest (as Tessaraea suggested) and spend some time gathering information about the Border Wood (since no one among the group is native to Heldren). The last two actions can probably just be handwaved through the use of a Diplomacy check for the sake of pacing though.
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Perfectly reasonable. In a perfect world, you can totally ask questions one by one, but that generally takes a perfect storm. :) Also, to the next line: Taking initiative is great. Mouse is also intended to be sort of a background character, but in order for a campaign to thrive, you have to thrust your character into the forefront just as often as you shift out. Hence a very curious Mouse and a very foolish Mouse. :)
Inner monologue is nice when it isn't too much. I tend to try to give one sentence 'reasons'. No, you can't see the 8 logical leaps that it took to arrive at the point that you are, -but-, you can see the thing that brought her mind to that conclusion.
As an example 'As Nathara was eating on the other side of Tiferet, Mouse squirmed; she couldn't help but imagine Nathara on the other side greedily devouring the bloody meat with her fingers.' This grants cause and effect; an observant person will understand why Mouse is acting queasy. Just 'Mouse looks sick' is not really valuable and doesn't provide hooks, and just 'Mouse thinks x looks bad' is much less valuable. Thoughts and actions together are great. :)
You were on the upper end of thought-to-action, but it read somewhat like a mystery novel, so I'm wont to not be overly critical :P
Also, though, a little bit of internal monologue (in the way surface thoughts tend to appear, in the first person,) using italics and apostrophes, can really help to develop character for the reader. While the character does not see it, the actions of this other character will tend to reflect their thoughts, and entire paragraphs of exposition as to how your character acts can often be summed up with a few lines of thought. :)
It's kind of a really haphazard game to play... and it's really hard to be secure in what you're doing, how much you're saying, how much spotlight you take... but trust me. As long as you leave space for people to shine where they shine, no one's gonna complain. :)
Internal monologue can also make up for all those subtle visual and contextual clues that are lost once a dialog is exposed in written form; as Inire said, it's actually a very precious tool to avoid misunderstandings, as well as adding to a character's depth.
As for taking the spotlight... it might take a period of adjustment, but things eventually click in spontaneously. Once more I quote Inire and say that it's often just a matter of understanding what one's own and everybody else's niche is. Having character sheets at our disposal makes this endeavor so much easier.
On the topic of 'Five Man Band', I'd be curious to know who you think is what... and who the 'sixth ranger' will be? :P
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The sixth ranger is easy. Broody and aloof yet more charismatic than everyone else, helping on her own terms, her alignment more ambiguous than the rest of the group... I'd say Eve's a perfect fit.
I'd also pick Morgraine as the Smart Girl by virtue of being the only one with both high Wisdom and Intelligence. Inire... I don't know. Perhaps the Chick? She looks like having a strong moral compass, and her fighting style is based more on grace and agility than raw strength
Tiferet can be the Big Girl... I wouldn't know about the other two though. Not everything's supposed to fit perfectly, I guess.
Since the Chick is partially defined by being the odd one out gender wise, there is an argument to be made that Eirikr is the Chick. And Tiferet's clearly the Leader.
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I second Tiferet as the Leader. I was leaning towards Eirikr as the Strong Man. (Not that he's dumb, just that he's continued to bless us with very uneducated speech patterns :p)
I was leaning towards Eve as the Lancer due to a very contrasting attitude with Tiferet, and Inire as the Smart Guy or Chick.
I'm having trouble quantifying the other two, though.
The reason I see Inire as Smart Guy -or- Chick is because she's going to have an enviable amount of skills. She's going to be very good at her things and supportive of other people's things. So... caught in between.
:p I don't think we'll be playing it straight, regardless. :p
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Personally, I'm thinking this:
The Leader: Tiferet
The Lancer: Nathara
The Smart Girl: Inire
The Strong Man: Eirikr
The Chick: Morgraine
The Sixth Ranger: Eveylnn
But I agree, it's definitely not a traditional five (wo)man band.
Personally, I'm thinking this:
The Leader: Tiferet
The Lancer: Nathara
The Smart Girl: Inire
The Strong Man: Eirikr
The Chick: Morgraine
The Sixth Ranger: EveylnnBut I agree, it's definitely not a traditional five (wo)man band.
Incidentally, that would also fit our chosen mythic paths quite well.
I've actually always looked at Gather Information as more of a 'carousing' thing. Canvasing, talking to everyone. It may be better to try to work it out as a 'make him like me, then talk to him' thing.
That's either good enough to make him (or her!) friendly or helpful!
Remember, Gather Information is kinda special in that it takes 1-4 hours (ouch!)
Internal monologue can also make up for all those subtle visual and contextual clues that are lost once a dialog is exposed in written form; as Inire said, it's actually a very precious tool to avoid misunderstandings, as well as adding to a character's depth.
I am not sure whether I would phrase it like this; even though I certainly agree. It's more an aesthetic thing to. I feel there needs to be a certain balance, because otherwise the literal speech comes without context and feels hollow...
I've actually always looked at Gather Information as more of a 'carousing' thing. Canvasing, talking to everyone. It may be better to try to work it out as a 'make him like me, then talk to him' thing.
That's either good enough to make him (or her!) friendly or helpful!
Remember, Gather Information is kinda special in that it takes 1-4 hours (ouch!)
Basically, I dropped that roll in case everyone was ready to depart so that we could just handwave the whole scene behind a 'Gather Information' check and skip to the results.
But since the GM has been nice and provided me with a RP opportunity, I'd gladly reskin that roll into a standard Diplomacy check!
RE: in-game time (as opposed to RL time); APs like to put a lot of pressure over PCs to always be pushing forward, but in this particular case, Tiferet doesn't believe our schedule is that tight. With chances of survivors being minimal to non-existent and Lady Argentea having being kidnapped for who knows what purpose, the soldier in her doesn't see a couple of hours being too crucial to the mission's success, and she'd rather spend that time ensuring everyone's well prepared to face whatever we will find.
Also on that note, I realize her insistence on grabbing some cold-weather outfits for those who lack any sort of cold resistance might be seen as a bit metagame-y. In her defense, it's just that the environmental rules detailed in the Player's Guide tend to be... murderous for 1st level characters. I figured it was better to force things a bit now than be forced to turn back later (or worse, having to face monster encounters while severely debilitated).
I am not sure whether I would phrase it like this; even though I certainly agree. It's more an aesthetic thing to. I feel there needs to be a certain balance, because otherwise the literal speech comes without context and feels hollow...
Agreed. Functionality and aesthetics walking hand in hand.