:(
Sorry. The random number god is a cruel master.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eirikr will fumble his way to the end of this campaign somehow, Pharasma willing
Midafternoon, hmm? So, if I interrupt my rest I can't prepare spells.
For the sake of preparing spells, as long as you're not doing anything too strenuous, you don't count as interrupting your rest. So you can talk to it if you want.
Ok. I was about to post something along the lines of "We left Heldren with the single purpose of liberating Lay Argentea...", good thing I checked it before posting then :)
In other news, if nothing else transpires I'm ready to move on.
I'm fine with moving on as well.
And feel free to teach Ashen tricks
I noticed a mistake: Message is not on the magus spell list. She prepares Acid Splash, Daze, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead and Shield, Grease, Shocking Grasp.
Ah, I had forgotten that. The Magus cantrip list is rather limited sometimes.
Quick question about relative movement speeds: Inire, having both the cold honed racial trait and the fast stealth ability, can move at up to 30 ft. per round on difficult terrain while still being stealthy. Everybody else has a movement speed of 15 ft. on difficult terrain, further halved if they don't want to get a -5 malus on their Stealth checks. Tiferet, encumbered by her armour, suffers a further reduction: if she tried to be stealthy, she'd have to move at just 5 feet per round.
Is this correct? Is the snowy terrain considered difficult for this very purpose?
The trail is pounded down enough from people moving up and down it that it is not difficult terrain. Anywhere else is difficult terrain, so yes you are unfortunately slowed to a crawl when moving through the deeper snow. When not sneaking it's 10 feet, as difficult terrain halves your current movement speed.
Vosi's Stealth modifier is over the roof (we probably have a clue of it IC because of how difficult it was to spot him when he ambushed us) and Invisibility gives a +20 bonus to any moving creature (+40 if immobile). Tiferet can cast Vanish, which only lasts two rounds but is better than nothing.
If Vosi and Morgraine can enter the lodge unseen, a Sleep + Colour Spray combo can be devastating against a large number of low-level foes. Inire and Tiferet (or someone else, like Nathara, whose superior mobility would allow her to get a much greater use out of Vanish's short timespan) can then finish the rest. The bandit guy told us there were 12 of them, minus the necromancer and the sick ones we can expect an initial fight against 7 foes (all 1st level judging by the ones we defeated on the trail). They each have a meagre 10% chance to save against both Sleep and Colour Spray (though sleep is capped to 4 enemies total).
Message will help us coordinate. Thoughts?
If we use Ghost sounds we could lure some outside and cost them at least a move action first round
If Tiferet casts Ghost Sound, it would probably just mark the start of a surprise round on our part should we decide to attack (judging by how the GM has managed our previous ambush)... But if we can't close the distance, it would probably do us little good, for after taking a standard action, combat would begin normally (I understand there's some space between the wood and the lodge, though I don't know how much precisely).
Mmmh... What do you say if Tiferet uses the scroll of Invisibility on Inire so that she could scout the lodge in its entirety, reporting back her findings via message? That way we could devise a strategy having full information about our enemies, where they are, how many etc. It lasts at least 3 minutes, so she could even have time to get in position for a sneak attack once combat begins.
I don't like the idea of using the really valuable scroll on Inire. She wouldn't be against it, but it's going to be a lot more valuable down the road, than in Inire breaking into the lodge at the moment.
A second level wizard scroll is worth 150 gp... 15% of a single 2nd level character WBL. In 2 levels, Tiferet is going to be able cast that same spell how many times she wants.
Be assured, I fully understand you since I have the tendency to cling to every single potion or scroll I can get my hands on when playing RPGs, figuring 'I will need it some day' :) In the end, though, I find myself soon reaching the point where I'm just carrying around a lot of less-than-useful stuff, as levelling up makes early-game trinkets obsolete very fast. I figured that since we were given it for that explicit purpose, and the GM has made a point to tell us how difficult the lodge can get, we could very well use it now. Still, if you feel it would be wasteful, I totally get it.
What about vanish on Morgraine + Sleep as soon as she has a line of sight on the bandits (as long as she's reasonably safe from retaliation)?
EDIT: yeah I now realize I'm getting a little fixated on the surprise round Sleep + Colour Spray combo. Sorry :( It's just that... at low levels it's so ridiculously OP it's a joke. Against a large number of low-level fighter-types it makes fights end before they even begin. In a Kingmaker campaign we scoured the Greenbelt clean of bandits just through that. Poor sods never knew what hit them.
Still, not meaning to stall the game by nitpicking over strategy ;)
Fun-wise, whatever attack plan we end up enacting, it still beats arguing about it in the Discussion thread... So by all means, as soon as we agree to move on, just assume Tiferet will do whatever it takes to put the plan in motion.
My issue is that I don't really have anything to add beyond what I've already stated. :)
Any reasonable plan is a good one. All I care about is 'no one goes alone'. Because that's how players die. Except if Inire has the woods+full speed stealth + snowtime funtime advantage. Then I'm totally fine with that. But it has to be a significant advantage.
As it stands, I'm happy to go along with whatever the group decides upon -but- tonight is face to face night.
Absolutely agree on the 'no one goes alone'!
(To be clear, my idea was for Inire to scout around and then safely retreat, I'd never suggest that she took any risk while the rest of the group was far away lurking in the woods.)
Have fun in your F2F game!
I don't mind picking up stealth synergy at 5. But that's the first time I get another feat. :)
What exactly would I be doing in this plan?
My idea is to get as close as possible while invisible and then open with a Colour Spray + Sleep combo... Melee characters should then try to finish off those who make their saves.
Something like:
It's highly dependent on timings and distances, though. You can switch Eirikr / Morgraine depending on the line of sight: Sleep has a comparatively long range, so it can be cast from relatively far away, minimizing risk.
I'm more or less fine with whatever I just don't want to end up hedged out of combat when I already feel like I'm struggling to contribute.
:(
I don't want anyone feeling like they're not contributing. If you're having problems, feel free to speak up and I'll do what I can. If you're not having fun, then I'd like to try and fix it.
I do understand your combat worries though. With pretty much the entire party as casters, you're going to lag in combat a bit at lower levels. Once you get a bit higher level, things should hopefully improve.
I am admittedly super wishy washy about builds but I feel like it was a mistake rolling a charisma caster in this party. Eirikr is completely outclassed in charisma-related things by Tiferet and Evelyn and once he starts using change shape that'll get even worse since that gives you a -4 malus to charisma checks (including intimidate for whatever reason). He's been doing the survival checks but really Morgraine is better at that then he is. I've tried to pick spells that don't step on other people's toes but I have a hard time figuring out which ones to go with which is why he's mostly been a healbot up to this point.
I had kind of been looking forward to having a tough combat to give Eirikr an in-character reason for finally using his change shape ability which I'm hoping will synergize a little bit better with martial flexibility now that he as +1 BAB. Justifying using it has been difficult since the +2 wis doesn't really do anything for him.
Sorry, I don't mean to be complainy, I've just been feeling kind of useless to the party.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If I can give build advice, go for buffing, especially self-buffing. The party has some people that are pretty good at combat, but the cleric (and oracle since they share a spell list) are masters of self-buffing and support. Building to be the battle cleric and focusing on being good at making yourself powerful, and more importantly survivable, in melee would fill a niche the party could use.
Well, +2 Wis increases your Will Save by +1 which is always handy.
Never feel like you can't bring up problems. I don't want people to not have fun with the game. It would be kind of pointless to play if no one was enjoying it.
I'm always open to build advice; I'm awful at min/maxing so feel free to offer any suggestions. Hopefully this next combat Eirikr will be more effective (and I'll finally get a chance to show off my "werewolf transformation scene" writing skills)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Here's the interesting thing about the party insofar as I understand it. The only one without a big secret is the amazing liar. The big secret needs to be a big deal, so 'holding onto it' isn't really all that big.
Sadly... your 'big secret' is a major portion of your power. Unless you have another big secret. :0 Also, sadly, I'm not a fan of witchwolf compared to just plain skinwalker. :(
Like they said, if you feel not included, make up reasons to be included. Mouse will ask questions when folks are alone (and especially moreso when I'm not getting wrecked by work and teh emos).
Mechanically, it's a recurrent problem with open recruitments. You don't know who you will end up with, so there's no way to synergize beforehand, like Tiferet whose main contribute has been her two-handed attacks which deal lots of damage, but would have worked much better as a bard rather than a skald – both because of bardic performance VS raging song and a much better propensity toward stealthy tactics. If we opt to go for ambushes, for instance, she has to stay behind.
The good news is that, as a full caster, you're bound to find your way to shine sooner or later, and as the quadratic wizard vs. linear warrior thing goes, probably sooner rather than later.
Role-playing-wise... I think Eirikr is a very solid, well-written and original character, and a strong 'feral' counterpart to us do-gooders. I regret that our respective time-zones have prevented us from engaging in some fast back-and-forth role-playing so far, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading the interaction he had with Inire. Plus, he has a big puppy with him. What's not to love?
In a way, the PbP medium itself might also be playing a part in your frustration. Even in a fast-paced campaign such as this, the game itself can feel unbearably slow from times to times, especially when your character isn't in the spotlight for one reason or another. Moreover, as Inire said, good interaction hooks are sometimes hard to come by, and unlike a F2F game, they often have to be actively created rather just stumbled upon. For what is worth, both me as a player and Tiferet are much intrigued by Eirikr's persona, so I'm looking forward to reading more of him!
I must admit, I keep forgetting that Eirikr is indeed an oracle and has such a high charsima. The character itself does not think in classes, of course. A class is merely a tool to forge the idea of a character into rule terms that allows interaction with the game in those terms, but I shall re-read your description, particularly the things that Nathara would be aware of, and rethink how she reacts to him.
Tiferet is probably correct about the time zone issue, it's difficult for us to interact directly.
About the "big secret"... I am not so sure what you mean. Nathara does not really have any secrets other than the location of the place she was raised - and that isn't really a personal secret, but one of her people and it's of no personal consequence to her. Her heritage is as "unusual" as it is obvious.
Well, moreso that your actions in character suggest that there's something rather large that you aren't sharing, I think. Since I haven't really read about anyone's characters, I've only been picking up 'vibes' to suggest these things. With Evelyn, I don't believe she had anything 'secret', but everyone else at least acts like they have things to hide. Whether it's a past in Irrisen, the fact they're a wolf, the fact they're a celestial (and may well not even know it), or who their parents are. There just seems to be a large gap with Nathara that Inire can't bridge which adds mystique. If you say there isn't anything there, I've been misreading. :(
Perhaps somewhat ironically, I have sometimes felt more or less in the same boat as you, Eirikr. Due to her background, Morgraine was built as a caster with a mix of social and knowledge skills, yet it seems (so far at least) that most of the party is the same (and with better charismas to boot), leaving a lot of her skills and abilities seeming superfluous. This is further exacerbated by the fact that, whether because of time zone or differing schedules, I have tended to "arrive" IRL towards the end of scenes - and so have ended up writing about Morgraine's observations and feelings towards what just happened as often as having her actually taking part in those scenes. She wasn't originally intended to be so taciturn or 'lone wolfish', but that's just how it seems to have worked out.
It probably doesn't help you that my hybrid class is part oracle. If it will make it easier, we could plan our spells together so we're doing different things, or at least similar things in different ways. Since Morgraine was trained as an arcane caster, but now finds herself on the 'divine' side of things, we might even justify in character as Eirikr giving her pointers. Just a thought. Also, as others have indicated, I suspect that as we grow and more options become available, it will be less frustrating.
Honestly, I'm a bit like Inire in that I don't typically read others' backgrounds or pour over their class builds. It's usually more fun for me if I discover those things in story along with my own character, so I'm not always up on what other people are doing. If I'm stepping on toes or what not, let me know. In a party full of casters, it would be very easy to do. I am nothing if not flexible.
Also, none of this is meant in any way as a criticism of the game, but are just observations. I think we have a great group and I'm enjoying game immensely. :)
Yeah, the time zone thing is probably a factor; a lot seems to happen when I'm not able to post at all. Coordinating our spells is probably a good idea; I'm not really familiar with the shaman class at all. Probably we'll all get better insync with each other as we go on. And of course, now that we're level 2 that's opened up a lot of flexibility--not having to burn a move action on drawing a weapon and getting access to feats which have a BAB requirement. Storywise, Eirikr will benefit from getting to use change shape and I think Eirikr and Morgraine will both have a lot more story hooks once we actually get to Irrisen.
On the topic of our plan for attacking the lodge, I'm fine with whatever, but I will note that Eirikr has Obscuring Mist and can pick up Blind-Fight with Martial Flexibility if that seems like it could be useful.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I picked characters for this game based on who I thought had the best roleplay potential with this game, so I admit that I didn't pick the most mechanically optimal party. I actually didn't realize that the entire party had 3/4 BAB until after I'd made the selections. Looking back, it's caused a few small issues like Tif being less effective than she could or Eirikr lagging behind a little right now. However, I'm confident that the party has the potential to be really interesting as we get deeper into the adventure.
Also, if anyone wants to look over the lodge a bit more, I've updated the Roll20 map so you can use that for planning.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Obscuring Mist + Blind-Fight would almost assuredly be useful in an enclosed space with zombies coming at us (which I suspect will happen sooner rather than later). It'll be bad for the rest of us, but Eirikr can totally do bad things to less intelligent creatures that way. It might also be of use to sneak the princess out of the enemy castle. :)
One thing that I would suggest, is try to hook people. Evelyn and I have time zones that happen between Nat/Tif timezones and Mor/Eir time zones. I might be wrong in thinking that's how things line up, but I think that that's mostly why Nat and Tif have wound up basically doing a lot of solo RP, and why Mor/Eir seem a bit left out. And again, I haven't been doing enough hooking at all. Once my work winds down again, I should be less 'rawrgleblargh'.
I am a bit clueless at the moment. I suppose we need more data, thus I suggest more reconnaissance. That seems to be quite big, anyhow.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For what is worth, I believe you made the right choice. I've seen plenty of campaigns die off on these forums, and not one due to a TPK. It was just them slowly fading out because of people gradually losing interest – I believe your choices have made sure the latter scenario won't happen any time soon :)
I'm on GMT+1, as I believe Nathara is. As for hooks, I'll try to lay down more of them as well. For now, this is how Tiferet sees the rest of the party:
Nathara: her sister through a blood pact. So different, yet so similar. The dusk to Tiferet's dawn, the grace to Tiferet's brute power. And yet, merciful and passionate, a mistress of both blade and magic.
Inire: shy and demure, yet competent and deadly. There's so much more of her than meets the eye, and Tiferet believes she doesn't give herself enough credit. A petite half-elf almost half her weight, and yet the Ulfen woman would be afraid to meet her in battle.
Evelyn: a conundrum. Having witnessed first-hand how easy it is for her to lure people into the weave of her lies, Tiferet doesn't know what to make of every word she utters. Still, she suspects trying to read the darkly beautiful girl would be a futile effort – something she's reminded of every time her eyes meet her magnetic, penetrating gaze.
Morgraine: a mysterious yet charismatic woman of northern features wielding no small arcane power. Many things about her past are vague at best, and if the crow spoke the truth, for a good reason. Still, she has proven a valuable addition to the party, and Tiferet suspects her heart is in the right place.
Eirikr: a green boy who probably hasn't yet seen his eighteenth spring yet, despite what his stature might suggest. Handsome, strong and tall, he forces Tiferet to raise her eyes to look at him – a very welcome change. And yet, there is a ferality in him she's seldom seen elsewhere, as if he were torn between two natures (as his words at the Silver Stoat would suggest). She'd hate to see such a powerful young man slip into darkness, and she would probably go to great lengths to prevent it.
As for the lodge, it's both bigger and closer than I thought. We might be able to fight our way through each room separately if we manage not to raise any alarm. Tiferet might cast vanish on Nathara, so that she could at least catch a good glimpse of how many people are in the closest one. If it's <=6, a surprise attack might prove quite effective.
Thanks Tif. I believe the party can be something great too, it might just take a bit of getting your feet wet.
And you're not quite as close to the lodge as you look on the map, but I can't move tokens off the map with Roll20 and the lodge map is large enough that it takes most of the area. You will be coming in from that path when you make your move though. Inire is also in the right spot for where she's been listening in.
If find it curious that most tracks seem to lead around the building.
It seems extremely unlikely to me that we will be able to fight in a way through the building without everyone noticing in the building. It's merely a cottage, after all, and the we won't be able to dampen the sounds of battle sufficiently to alert every.
It might be essential to try and keep our escape route open open and prevent them from moving around us. It appears like the vast majority of them did in fact use the other entrance.
About the mist: I believe it may be a good way to spread confusion and make it more difficult for them to coordinate or find out to find out who, what and how many we are. The mist seems most efficient if we fight outside, because we hardly know what's in the building but the enemy does. One must also keep in mind that one must be able to see the intended recipients to successful cast a message spell.
It might be wise to have a look inside the building first. Thus Nathara will gladly take her chance and scout ahead if you make her vanish.
知彼知己，百戰不殆；不知彼而知己，一勝一負；不知彼，不知己，每戰必殆
The thing about message is true, but after that, it lasts for 10 minutes/level and has a range of 100 ft. +10 ft./level, passing through anything less than 1 ft. of stone or 3 ft. of wood and skirting around any barriers if finds as long as the entire path is <= the spell's range. If cast before we separate, we should be good.
Good spotting about the footsteps! Being the door facing the natural direction an enemy force would approach, it stands to reason it might be trapped, or simply slammed shut. The fact they assigned three of their number to scout for incoming intruders means they consider this a very real possibility.
If we manage to reach the lodge's perimeter and then stay close to the wall without peeking in, we should have total concealment vs. everyone inside who's not stretching out of a window to check outside, right?
This feels very much like playing X-COM.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would prefer to not rely on the doors. If they are barred from the inside there is little we can do to open them.
Agreed. If we find an isolated bandit, your idea of charming him to have him let us in might also have its merit (and its dangers).
Of course, there's still the option of using the Scroll of Invisibility and do a full scouting of the interior. Let's keep it as a last resort, though. As Inire pointed out, it might prove very useful later.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Best Image I've found for Mouse so far. :0
Do I have to actually move around the corner to see what's there? At the moment I don't see anything there.
Since you stated
Tiferet would try to follow the wood's edge west as far as she can without exposing herself (or staying deeper in the vegetation if required). That way we should at least be able to remove the 'fog of war' from most of the lodge's exterior.
Best Image I've found for Mouse so far. :0
Nice!
The entirety of the exterior of the lodge is revealed to the party.
So we try to crawl around the north side and see what's in the only lit room?
By the way, how many people were there in the room Inire peeked in? Nathara, you still have one full round of being invisible right?
No. To get to her current position using stealth took two rounds, making double moves is twice, stealth is half. Using spell dance the effective movement rate is 40 feet/round - eight fields. People inside looking out might not be able to see her, but she did not want to be heard either or create tracks out of nothing.
I believe the room in which Nathara looked was the same as the one under which Inire sits.
I suggest we simply use the window right there and kill the people inside, if we can get it open swiftly and silently. There was a guard looking out of it when Inire first approached, so we may have to wait until he next appears. Exploring the south western side of the building seems too dangerous.
PS: Wait, there are windows on the north side after all? I thought there were none... It may be more advisable to use one of those, then.
The window Inire was listening at is the one next to the door. She had to duck around the corner to avoid him spotting her when he looked outside. She didn't actually look inside I believe.
PS: That may have been a typo on my part. The map is correct.
Inire didn't look in. She's relied on keeping cover. :) She'd rather -not- risk exposing herself to the room and stirring the hornet nest.
Yeah, that was smart ;) The idea of slipping in and killing them in their sleep sounds also very good, if they can be opened from the outside without necessarily having to crash them.
There appear to be two different windows, Natahara's is dark, Inire's... we don't know, though we should be able to see if light comes out or not even from our position on the trail. Given the presence of 'several different voices' I don't think it looks on the same room you peeked in...