The Custodians

Game Master DreamAtelier

So, as folks from the other thread might know, I had suggested a potential setting and plan for an epic level game. This is the recruitment thread for what was mentioned there, and I'll try to go into a bit more detail on what I'm thinking now.

Setting wise, we're going to be looking at a Golarion-derivative. Somethings that folks are familiar with from Golarion will be present, but the reasons behind them might not be canonical, having instead been reinterpreted to fit the story we're trying to tell.

The Player Characters will all begin play as established members of an order known as the Custodians of the Membrane, an elite force of powerful entities from the various planes who have dedicated themselves to ensuring the planes of the world remain in a state of dynamic equilibrium. As they will readily tell those who listen, without their careful maintenance the Planes and their inhabitants would overwhelm and unbalance each other, merging and falling back into the chaotic nothingness from whence all of Creation sprang.

The Custodians cite their origins as shortly after the Great Beyond arose, when the (then) young gods of the cosmos discovered that there were Beings in the spaces between the planes, powerful and incomprehensible enough to drive even them mad and destroy them. In fear the gods agreed to work together, to create a singular membrane that would keep the Maelstrom at bay. At first, there was no need for custodians, but neglect and inattention took their toll, as the gods turned their minds to conflicts over what the interior of the single realm they had protected should be like. Eventually a breach occured, and a god travelled outside it. What he encountered there would shake his very nature.

When he returned, he fashioned the Worldweavers of the titans to keep the horrors he had experienced at bay. It was they who died in droves seeking to recover the portions of the realm that had been lost, and discovering that to be futile, it was they who conceived a bold and audacious plan by which the rest of the realm might be saved.

And so the three eldest of them, the last to survive walking into the Maelstrom and whatever they encountered there, journeyed to the Membrane the gods had made, where it still remained, and pulled it inwards, twisting and pinching it until they had formed an arrangement where the incursion was contained. It was a change too drastic for the gods to ignore, as new boundaries sprung up, and powers were constricted. When at last the gods came upon the Worldweavers, they were told that if the changes were undone, so they and all they valued would also be. "Look upon the cocoon we weave." said the eldest of the Worldweavers "And know it for what it is... our tomb, woven of our own flesh and souls, to keep you safe. For it, we extract a price... that your realms will be divided, your powers forever more constrained and your influences limited. This is how it must be, if it is to be."

The gods, it is said, did not see the wisdom of this, but did see that the changes were beyond them to undo less they worked as a whole again... and each of them had made enemies they would not trust enough to work with again. The Worldweavers went into their tomb, set at the center of the newly arranged planes, and were forgotten to time with their passing. The gods decided to set up a watch upon the membranes of the planes, so that each might know of any other's attempt to unbalance and pierce them. And so the Custodians were created.

In the modern age, the Custodians as a group aren't associated with the gods directly, having fought hard for the freedom to exercise their will and discretion in the pursuit of their responsibilities. Chosen from among the most powerful entities of the various planes, each is individually a match for all but the most potent servitors of any god, and as a collective whole they are powerful enough to give a god itself pause... for even if the conflict did not prove enough to kill the god, there would be little doubt that it would leave the god weakened sufficiently that one of its own brethren would finish it off.

The Custodians may make their homes wherever in the planes they choose (and can find acceptance), but each is required to maintain a dwelling within Astrarium, the city carved into the dead husks of the Worldweavers that surround Groteus and keeps the entity there at bay, for Groteus is said to be what was created when the Maelstrom's intrusion was cut off and isolated. No one knows who carved the city, and no one works to expand it, for it already covers all of the exoskeletons that remain... but popular belief holds that there is a dwelling already carved for each Custodian who ever has, or ever will, hold the position, and that each Custodian is instinctively drawn to the house that was set aside for them specifically.

Now for the non-setting based stuff:

This will be an epic level campaign, with characters created using 25 point buy and at 25th level. Monsterous races will be allowed, at the cost of levels equal to their CR. CR will not be modified in any way based on the power level of the campaign.

No base class shall have levels beyond 20, and no prestige class shall have more than 10. This means that there is no such thing as a 21st level wizard, though it is entirely possible to create a wizard who is 21st caster level. Please be cognizant of the limitations on post 20 play as presented in the core rule book (for instance, one does not gain additional iterative attacks beyond the fourth, ever).

The Intensify Spell metamagic feat will apply to all level based variables which do not already have a metamagic feat that can be applied to them. All metamagic feats may be stacked with themselves, though standard rules for stacking multipliers apply (ie, 2 x2 multipliers only increase the base value by x3).

For effective caster progression beyond 20th level (only possible through prestige classes), the following progressions will be used: 1/3 and 2/3s casters will continue to gain additional spell slots as normal for their progression until they have learnt ninth level spell slots. Full casters (those already possessing 9th spell slots) will receive an additional 9 levels of spell slots each level, to be divided as they choose amongst any levels of spells (so 1 4th and 1 5th level slot, 3 3rd level slots, 1 9th level slot). Spell knowledge increases at the pace of 1 additional spell known from their class spell list each level; Alternately a caster may choose to specialize in particular spells they already know, permanently adjusting the cost to add all metamagic feats to that spell by -1 for each level. This reduction does allow for the Heighten Spell feat to be added and grant it's standard benefits without adjusting the base level of the spell (allowing someone who has specialized in fireball to cast it as a 3rd level spell while setting its saves as if it were a higher level).

No player character will be allowed to begin with knowledge or training in the use of firearms.

Resources are limited to those published by Paizo and contained on d20pfsrd. Races may NOT be constructed using the rules from the Advanced Race guide.

3.5 conversions and 3rd party materials will not be considered. I will be doing enough work to make this campaign feasible without having to familiarize myself with new rules or systems, or double checking conversions to make sure they remain of comparable power to published materials.

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It is a bit early for players to be worrying about all the mechanics at this point. I am mostly interested in seeing concepts from which I can choose a group of players, who can then create the specific mechanics.

Please try to keep concepts relatively short (three to five paragraphs at the most). Within those paragraphs, you should make sure to mention:
-Class and Race of the character (particularly if intending to take a monster as a race)
-How the character feels about the mandate of the Custodians
-Things that your character considers important (family, friends, a kingdom you're in charge of, etc)
-Basic personality and description.
-What your character's dwelling in Astrarium would look like.
-Anything else you think I will find interesting that will sway me to picking you.

My main focus when choosing players will be to look for complimentary concepts that I think can be meshed together with relatively minimal fuss.

I would like to play a Monk/20 Fighter/5. He will be an Oread, as I like the Race and it is a good compliment to both the Monk and the Fighter. Andanan is fine with the mandate of the Custodians and considers his small group of friends, who are other Custodians who live near him, and is very protective of both his friends, and his home. He has black hair, white skin, and eyes that appear to be Saphires. He is quiet, reserved, and is easily a character I would consider to be a common link between two parties and could as such mediate any problems in the group. His dwelling in the Astrarium would appear to be a grand monastery at the top of a cloud peaked mountain, as it is a peaceful environment for his quiet life, and is always somewhere his friends enjoy being. It is cooler and dryer than most places, and that seems to add to the calming aspect of the dwelling. I think that you should pick Andanan because he is a character who can be a very valuable ally in combat, but can be a major asset in any situation. I beg that you consider this character carefully, and I hope that your game goes well, regardless of weather or not I am picked. Thank you for your consideration.

I'm certainly interested in this. First idea to pop into my head is a monstrous monk. More details forthcoming later when I have some time to do it justice.

Edit:Don't want to sumbit a monk if Baron is going for that. I think I'll go for a Mercane Magus instead. He would be a champion of interplanar trade. More details to come later tonight.

Thinking the mystic theurge from the other thread. Sent a PM to clear up some things before I post more.

I have an 18th level Asamiar Inquisitor already created, which can easily become 20th. Beyond that, I might go Ranger or maybe Fighter. If you would allow Paladins to be any Good, I would defintely go that route.

I'm out right now n not sure when I'm goin home but it'l be late when I do so I'll post more tomorow.

I've been following these epic level recruitment threads for the last several days and I must say you have my interest piqued. I've been gaming for over 30 years (since the basic boxed set) and sadly I've had fewer than 3 characters ever play beyond 12th level. Some died but most just retired as we switched dms and started over. So the thought of playing a 20+ level character is exciting.

I could submit an alchemist or a rogue. Whichever fits the campaign better.

Do we have a particular goal or will this be a sandbox type campaign?

Could not wait, so there.

Nathmir Tsaneth is a Aasimar Mystic Theurge of Nethys. He agree's with the mandate of the Custodians, balance should be mantained for everything has its place and purpose. Nathmir values the tenets of his faith, for he considers himself one of the few who can truely understand them, as well as the faithful, magic, and those who serve him. While he understands he is only one and can do only so much still he does what he can in the grand interest of things. Nathmir is flexible in most respects while sometimes considered cold by taking an objective view of things, he is not above anything if it gets the intended results. He is none the less a loyal and trust worthy friend if made so, yet his position, manner, and power make such friends few to nonexistant. He stands around six feet, has short spikey hair of silver and black, with ever a stylized bone mask marked in black streaks on one side bearing a closed jaw of sharp teeth on his face. He wears black robes with silver runes as trim, trinkets of the arcane and silver dangling. Over his robes a black cloak with red tipped feather trim bearing a glyph of pale glowing silver on his back. Lastly never far from his hand with a habit of standing on its own is his staff of fine black and white intertwined wood that ends wrapped around a orb of unknown material with swirling energy inside. His dwelling in Astrarium would be a massive tower of unparalleled height, with orbiting islands that could be controlled by him at will, surrounded by a constent twinkling blue mist that seem to stir and move as if alive. It also has a ten foot tall adamantine fence around the perimeter with runes running across the top, along with a gate at the main entrance that has the black and white mask of Nethys above its threshold.

Feel free to ask me anything I got plenty for this guy. xD

I'm still sitting on my changeling Witch/Pathfinder Savant, have to retool her point buy just a tinge and discuss one custom item, but otherwise she's ready to go assuming that starting wealth is the same as 3.5 (I believe it was 2.1 million for a 25th level character), if it isn't I may need to adjust equipment.

Anyway, here's my concept:

The origins of the woman known as Moreth the Gloomshaper are veiled in the shadows of history; but in truth she entered life as a changeling, the spawn of a hag who left her on the doorstep of a half-elven adept. Although her foster father was among the least of magicians, by watching him she was able to learn ways to access the latent magic in her blood. Eventually she became an arcanist in her own right, her heritage leading her to the path of the witch. Though she mastered many of the aspects of magic, her greatest power lay in the shadows, and it is the darkness itself that serves as her patron. At first she was driven primarily by greed. She had no real predilection for good or evil, law or anarchy; and it was for her own power that she toiled. Eventually, as her power grew and things became more and more simple for her, she was taken by an ennui. Where she once strove for wealth and power, she now is moved only by two things: amusements and her cause. The first is simple, things that are new or interesting she seeks out, things that are dull and routine she avoids. A prime example of this is her choice of familiar, a cacodaemon that had gained, by some unknown means, the enmity of some great power in Abaddon. She made a compact with it to serve as her familiar in exchange for protection purely out of finding the whole situation amusing. Over the years her non-committal alignment has developed into an actual philosophy of balance. It was this, more than anything, that made her commit to the cause of the Custodians. While it was her power that drew their attention, her unswaying dedication to the cause is what makes her useful. She has no living family, but she enjoys polite company among her peers. She can be incredibly off-putting to those who do not know her well, but aside from a general aloofness she isn't impersonal. She appears to be a young woman, very tall and thin, with almost too pale skin and very fine black hair that seems to move on its own. Her eyes are disconcerting, one being all black and the other a dull milky white. She favors shadows, and tends to sport clothing that seems to be fashioned from the darkness itself, roiling and shifting in diaphanous layers. Lights tend to dim in her presence, and strange events or noises follow in her wake. She is well known for her mastery of the craft, and is much sought after for the making of strange items of power. Her abode in Astrarium is unlit, and very sparse. Aside from a bed, a desk, and a stool, the only obvious feature is a very fine and fiendishly complex magic circle made of numerous different metals worked into eldritch signs and symbols.

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Anyway, that's the breakdown. I have a lot more detailed info if you want it, but I figured the paragraph was big enough as it is for a basic intro. Besides, it wouldn't do to give away all her secrets here ^_~

For a slightly less flowery breakdown of her basic role; she's a utility caster and a crafter (she can do weapons, armor, wondrous, scrolls, potions, and rings).

This would be my Inquisitor. No backstory was added, but he's descendant from a celestial(possibly Half) ally of a mortal Iomedae. He's currently what would amount to her Chosen ala the Forgotten Realms, but if that particular aspect wouldn't this game I can change it.

I'm really interested in playing a monstrous character. You said that we trade our CR for levels, does that mean I can play a Great Wyrm Sovereign Imperial Dragon with two class levels? Because if it does, then I'm totally going to do that. Fits perfectly in with the Custodians too, since sovereign dragons are keepers of balance.

Edit:Or any other high level monster for that matter. Draconal, Pleroma Aeon, Solar, Star Archon etc...

If none of those work, I'll go for a half-elf synthesist summoner, as it serves a similar purpose, is my favorite class, and would be awesome at 20th level.

I would like to offer up a PC I made for another game, that I would like to up to 20, I pulled out the other before it started, but because I felt the game was wrong for her, but this one is a much better fit.

Summoner Synthases 20th level, Cleric 5 levels "The Great Balance".
(may take shadow Dancer 5)

here is the starting alt GM may aim to let her carry on as a cleric.

About Sol-Alar De Xin Min Elf Summoner TN (Synthesist L20/Shadow Dancer 5)
-Basic personality and description.
Sol-Alar De Xin
"Sol-Alar De Xin Min" Is a 1st world saying meaning "The Hunter of things", from Birth trained by the fay to act as an Agent of the great Patton, that balance that interlinks all things. She hunts any one or thing that seeks to shatter the balance of all things. It is her life it is all she knows. The how and way of her past are long gone and worlds change but she carry's on doing what she was trained to do. She could have been a god many time, other had offered her such things, she could have taken it as well. But she has no interest, once a thing has been marked she starts her hunt, and until the end of the hunt she will never stop.

"All things change only, change stays the same"

In From IMAGE HERE

5'10 and slim, with fine pale skin and long brown hear, Blue eyes and olive face, she has the fine looks of an half elf. Her dress is fine and of high cost, she likes to hide her lower face behind a vial, she will not make eye contact with most she meets. talking and low voice.

In her Synthesist form she is 7'2" tall and looks like this.
IMAGE HERE
Fast and the image of the idealized hunter, able to Dig, Swim, Fly she moves from plane to plane always seeking a better and more pour hunt. Eye of electric blue like the rune on her forehead, she reacks magic and power.

In Action
A passive and gentile demina, he mind on her faith, head often bowed and quietly spoken she is a fine elf lady with upbringing and class. There is only one thing she loves more then hunting and that is flying.

In her Synthesist form.
She is a relentless in the hunt, single minded and dedicated she moves with skill and art. It is in flight and movement she finds true form, she can often be seen spending hours flying for the pour joy if it. Her weapon of chouse is the NET, she has a large number and one always hangs from her belt.

-How the character feels about the mandate of the Custodians

The universe works on checks and balances, It must be maintained so.
Should any one power get the upper hand then the balance will brake and and all will fall. This is what she dos, find the ones that seek brake the balance.

-Things that your character considers important (family, friends, a kingdom you're in charge of, etc)

Her friends on the Astrarium, she has few but they mean a lot to her. The Great balance, she can see and hear it all around and when some things seeks to bake it, she will act to stop it. Freedome to go any where and when she likes

-What your character's dwelling in Astrarium would look like.

A place of living tranquility, gardens with contemplation areas of green life and natural spaces, water and plants, it is more a living thing than a building, but you will not find her there for space and time are her home most days, flying from one plane to another just for the feel of them on her face.

-Anything else you think I will find interesting that will sway me to picking you.

The idea is that shes a planes hunter, trained and skilled in doing such, her roll would be as combat, hunter and tracker.

Do we have a particular goal or will this be a sandbox type campaign?

This is a difficult one to answer as an either/or statement. Yes, there will be a particular goal to the campaign itself, an over-arching story that, once resolved, will mark the end point of the campaign (or at the very least the beginning of the denouement as any hanging threads from earlier are wrapped up). There will be smaller explicit goals along the way to reaching that point which the group will be given.

How the group goes about achieving those goals (both small and large) is wide open. Given the capacities of the characters at this level, I don't really have a choice but to leave it that way. If a particular demon lord has managed to stage an overt invasion of the material plane, threatening to make everything fall apart if he is victorious, I can think of a half dozen different solutions that the PCs could use to resolve the issue, ranging from talking the demon lord down, to supporting those fighting against the demon, all the way to directly engaging the demon lord themselves.

I'm really interested in playing a monstrous character. You said that we trade our CR for levels, does that mean I can play a Great Wyrm Sovereign Imperial Dragon with two class levels? Because if it does, then I'm totally going to do that. Fits perfectly in with the Custodians too, since sovereign dragons are keepers of balance.

Edit:Or any other high level monster for that matter. Draconal, Pleroma Aeon, Solar, Star Archon etc...

If none of those work, I'll go for a half-elf synthesist summoner, as it serves a similar purpose, is my favorite class, and would be awesome at 20th level.

Yes, you can play as a great wyrm or a solar if you want. The only limitation I'll put on this is no unique monsters (so, for instance, you may not play as the Terrasque or Treerazor)

A question was also posed to me about characters with religious leanings, so I'll share my response to that with everyone:
I'm not opposed to characters being devotees or associated with any particular god, or drawing their powers from the gods... but you should realize that there is no certainty that your character might not find his responsibilities to his god and his responsibilities to the order in opposition at some point in time.

For the sake of cohesion, you can hem and haw and drag your feet if this happens, but the character should be built with such a mindset that they ultimately will either come down in support of their responsibilities to the Custodians, or at least be willing to step aside and let the rest of the group fulfill their responsibilities. Actively entering into conflict with the rest of the group because you're placing your deity's creed before that of the Custodians would be unacceptable.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but I feel this should be brought up about the monsters for the sake of balance. I have seen alot of games go belly up due to this issue for a number of reasons.

CR changes based on lvls and does not follow the normal rules that govern PCs. Monsters and more so the powerful ones are made in mind with a number of PCs going against them. So while a Wyrm Sovereign Dragon is CR 21 it has 28d12, AC 41, 5 attacks starting at +40 to hit, act as 17th lvl sorcerer's, and this is without gear. Taking advantage that sorcerer lvls stack with dragons by the rules I could add 3 lvls of sorcerer to max it as a 20th lvl sorcerer then take a 1 lvl dip in any class that catches my fancy. Throw in magical gear and that dragon can go toe to toe with the rest of the party unless they too are monsters that have been optimized. No non monster PC will come close to the sheer power of high lvl monsters one on one. Monsters at high lvls are designed to take on high lvl parties so a CR 21 really means it takes at least 4 PCs of lvl 19-21 to have a good chance of bring it down.

Just saying everyone should start at the same base line or you will end up with some people being utterly useless or having little real involvement. Personally I am good etheir way, just dont want this to be found out later.

He's right, which is why I asked too. At first I was like ooh a giant monk or something. But there is no reason to be any kind of normal race when you can change CR for levels. If that's fine with you and you know that then I would love the chance to play a high level monster.

Yeah I may change my guy if its good, never gotten to play a dragon. Only had one as a cohort and she was not even close to wyrm lvl. ;)

Well, I got dibs on the Sovereign Imperial Great Wyrm :P Though the Pleroma or Draconal are also quite tempting.

Oh come on no one said your the only one in the multiverse. Anyways not all dragons go the same way. But really it depends what idea I have in mind. Not making any revisions just yet til we get the decision.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but I feel this should be brought up about the monsters for the sake of balance. I have seen alot of games go belly up due to this issue for a number of reasons.

CR changes based on lvls and does not follow the normal rules that govern PCs. Monsters and more so the powerful ones are made in mind with a number of PCs going against them. So while a Wyrm Sovereign Dragon is CR 21 it has 28d12, AC 41, 5 attacks starting at +40 to hit, act as 17th lvl sorcerer's, and this is without gear. Taking advantage that sorcerer lvls stack with dragons by the rules I could add 3 lvls of sorcerer to max it as a 20th lvl sorcerer then take a 1 lvl dip in any class that catches my fancy. Throw in magical gear and that dragon can go toe to toe with the rest of the party unless they too are monsters that have been optimized. No non monster PC will come close to the sheer power of high lvl monsters one on one. Monsters at high lvls are designed to take on high lvl parties so a CR 21 really means it takes at least 4 PCs of lvl 19-21 to have a good chance of bring it down.

Just saying everyone should start at the same base line or you will end up with some people being utterly useless or having little real involvement. Personally I am good etheir way, just dont want this to be found out later.

This is a valid concern, and on consideration I think I will be changing the rule to: You may choose to play a monstrous race, exchanging class levels for racial hit dice or CR, whichever is higher. So the oldest a soverign dragon could be would be very old (CR 19 but with 24 hit dice) with a single class level, while a solar (CR 23 but with only 22 hit dice) would be limited to two class levels.

I may change my guy to pleroma with a class level. Anyone know a good single class level?

What's the valuation of the gear that we get? I'm planning on running up a Wizard 20/Loremaster 5, so I'm just wondering how much gear do we get.

E m I *really* want to play in an epic game, but I have no desire to make Akor a celestial of some sort, just so I can keep up with the other PCs who have chosen to be super powerful races. I *want* my late level class abilities.

About the most id be wiling to give up is 7 class levels, and even then I'm not sure I still wouldn't be outshined by hella old dragons and whatever a Pleroma is....

Dont worry monkey god, those racial HD are hurting me to much class wise. Sticking with my mystic theurge, like all epic just have to rely on my gear to pick up the slack. xP

I'm still sticking with my Orread Monk/20 Fighter/5. If you guys want to be super PCs, that's your decision, but if you do, it is going one of two ways. 1: You tear through everything because of your Racial abilities and never get hit because your AC is so high, unless someone with a gone got first range increment, in which case, at such a high level, you would be screwed. 2: The monster PCs will make the game more challenging because the GM is throwing us into encounters that are difficult for them, and practically impossible for the rest of us. If you want to play a monster, make a thread for it, but this is a game where I personally would like to be able to enjoy without having to run around as a 6' half-earth elemental as opposed to a FREAKING DRAGON. If I get chosen to play, and the party does have a huge dragon creature, can I at least have a ride?

How are stats handled for monsters? Just take the monster stats or point buy with modifier equal to the monster stat -10 rounded down to something dividable by 2?

A similar question actually when it comes to skills and feats: Are you stuck with the bestiary ones (which denote a typical specimen of said species) or can you choose your own?

Asking because I'd love to make a Moss Troll Pyromancer who is in a constant battle with his own nature in order to not run away when he sees flames. The problem is that it would be next to impossible with the monster's normal stats.

Yeah, monster races are pretty much the reason why I'm thinking twice before applying.
Why not have at least 20 class levels (so everyone has his capstone)? That leaves up to CR 5 / 5 HD worth of monsters, or 5 levels worth of class abilities. Not sure on which monster would then be the most powerful choice, I don't know the bestiaries THAT well, but at least we'd be on the same boat and we'd be PCs for the most part rather than monsters.
Please :)

Count me in, I still want to play epic, even though I am starting one to run!

He is the usurper. Watching from afar the Brevoy Swordlords sent mercenaries and settlers into the River Kingdoms, he watched, and he learned. And then he usurped. First it was a baker, then a ranger. One year he was a travelling midwife. And as the kingdom grew in power, so to his abilities grew with the kingdom. when he had finally secured a position within the castle itself, he studied his target for many years before taking an opportunity one day to usurp once more. And so he became the king of Kameland, the Greenbelt, and the entire northern region of the River Kingdoms. The years that he spent studying his mark had given him an appreciation for life he didn't know before. He ruled for decades over the land, a fair and dutiful king. He raised the children of the person he had become as his own, and none were the wiser that their ruler was now an impostor, a doppelganger. It was by the dedication and power of his arcane studies that he attained that elusive quality of immortality without succumbing to dark magics.

It was a surprise when one day a being appeared in his private laboratory and called him for what he was, and offered him a new position. Finding that governing one small country was starting to become complacent, he retired his rule and handed the reigns of power to the son he considered his own. And that is how he found himself once more on a grand adventure beyond the planes and the realm he had called home as a Custodian of the Membrane.

He has found that life has purpose and a basic right. He understands, and from his own racial perspective knows, that there is a food chain. He finds that extremes can unbalance the basic right and in his own kingdom he worked to strike a balance between laws and freedoms, the greater good and personal choice.

Not above engaging in an activity that some may find morally apprehensive, he does so for his own view of a greater good. Unfortunately, some eggs are broken when making omelets.

Having spent so many years in the persona of a wise old elf, he finds comfort in using this form for his general activities. He still takes time to return to the River Kingdoms to check up on his family and his citizens, but he knows to leave that to his adopted son, the current king. He isn't above changing form and prefers to stick to a few standard personages that he works to build a realistic background for.

He likes to maintain a personal residence that is comfortable, but utilitarian. A library and laboratory are never far away, in his pocket demiplane, and he likes to keep his personal quarters for relaxation and social occasions.

He finds great joy in playing cards with his companions, priding himself on his skill without resorting to magical assistance.

I am desiring to play a straight up doppelganger wizard 20. Not sure about the last level, maybe the advanced template or a class level, likely rogue or a wizard prestige class. If you find yourself with too many casters, I can make a very slight modification to his background and run him up as a rogue 20, though I would personally prefer playing a wizard.

There are plenty of races to choose from, no real need to go monster. Unless said monster has lvls that stack with a class but the problem with that is your kinda stuck on that one class so you cant multi class. If you want to be a pure cleric then solar and some others would be fine. I just like my mystic theurge idea too much ;)

Hey Dream...this is kind of a 1/2 mechanics-1/2 char dev question....sorta going along with the "how much gold question" already brought up, how are you going to handle crafting?

Will our starting equipment be at full price (reflecting value of items), or will you allow crafted items to be purchased at 1/2 price - say within some limit (like X items total or X items per class level, or X gp can be spent on crafting, etc.)? Asking only because it might influence my class choices.

Thanks!

Dream can choose to be generous. Starting gold is generally retail price, not crafted price. Your character may be assumed to have crafted the gear all he wanted. He should still only have the retail gold for his level. Dream hasn't provided a gold limit for 25th level. The table stops at $880,000 gold at lvl 20.

Right, and I know that's how you're doing it too, fnord...I was just wondering if Dream was going to do it differently. Couple years ago when I played in an epic game the GM used a limit version like I mentioned - I believe at the time he said you have "Level Gold" as usual, and you may craft up to X (5 or 6, say) items, none of which could have a value of over XXXXXX ($30000). Yeah, it basically gave crafters a little more money, but nothing hugely game-breaking (I mean...it's epic...it's already broken :) )

One other question Dream - are you applying templates like monster races? Like if I have a CR+2 template on a human, do I get all 25 levels, or am I stopping at 23? I've seen this ran both ways is why I'm asking.

Thanks again!

Someone else brought up wealth, and after some thought, I've determined that will be calculated based partially on race, and partially on class levels:
-Class Levels shall provide GP as normal for the chart, with an additional 125,000 gp gained for each level beyond 20.
-Racial Hit dice shall provide 1/2 their number in class levels with regards to the chart (So a 24 hit die Pleroma with one class level will have gp equivalent to a 13th level character).

In game the rational for this is that adventuring is where most things amass wealth, and a monster with few or no class levels has spent most of their life doing other things than adventuring, and perhaps being preyed on by adventurers, preventing them from accumulating any great deal of wealth. Out of game, this should help to keep a sufficiently even power curve between the PCs, regardless of whether their concept is a 0 hit die race who's managed to reach that level of ability, or a massively powerful entity that relies on its racial abilities rather than experience it has acquired.

Remember that there are no epic level items in the game world: magic items should be constructed on the standard +5/+10 model (appropriate banes and/or the alignment enchantments will allow you to bypass epic DR, when it is encountered). Characters who possess crafting feats may reduce the cost of any item they can craft by 10% when buying it at creation (this allows them to receive a benefit for their feat investment, while not running away with the show by doubling their wealth). In play crafting will be done at the book rates of time and cost.

For monsters, I believe it will be easiest simply to take the ability scores as presented, while being allowed to move around a number of points equal to the total increases received from their hit dice (so a monster with 24 hit dice could move 6 points around as they chose). No stat may be reduced below three by these movements.

Skills points and feats may be entirely selected by the player, but attention should be paid to pre-requisites and ensuring you meet them: You may not take a metamagic feat before your hit dice would have allowed you to cast spells, for an example.

Most of the games I've played they let crafters use the crafting value rather than the retail value (otherwise there is little point in ever crafting if you're expected to adhere to retail when it comes to wealth by level), but then I'm heavy into crafting so I'm a bit biased ^_~"

One other question Dream - are you applying templates like monster races? Like if I have a CR+2 template on a human, do I get all 25 levels, or am I stopping at 23? I've seen this ran both ways is why I'm asking.

Thanks again!

Yes, templates will be applied like monster races.

I think I already asked this, but when do you plan on making your selections for the party?

Most of the games I've played they let crafters use the crafting value rather than the retail value (otherwise there is little point in ever crafting if you're expected to adhere to retail when it comes to wealth by level), but then I'm heavy into crafting so I'm a bit biased ^_~"

In a low to mid level campaign, that's probably what you'd see me doing Isonaroc... but the difference between 3000 and 6000 gp in gear is essentially a +1 which isn't altogether that noticeable in play, while the difference in 1.25 million and 2.5 million gp in gear is paying full retail cost for all of the following: a staff of power, a +10 weapon, a +10 set of Armor, 2 (full) rings of 3 wishes, a +6 enhancement bonus to all your ability scores, and a mirror of life trapping. I think a 10% reduction on the things you could have crafted will, at this level, be sufficient recompense for the feats (assuming you can craft everything you buy, it will still be the equivalent of paying full retail price for a full ring of 3 wishes).

Again, in play crafting will be conducted at the crafting costs and times. I only use wealth by level to keep the playing field relatively fair at character creation: if you as a group decide you want to let one person have everything you pick up once play begins, I will not tell you that you must divide it.

I think I already asked this, but when do you plan on making your selections for the party?

I must have missed it... my apologies. I hope to have made selections based on concepts by or before august 15th.

Dream,
Would you be willing to allow Paladins as any Good? While this is mostly a mechanics question, figuring out what Akor becomes after 20th level will have a decent impact on him RP wise.

Also, for things like favored enemies/terrains, do you have suggestions? I'm guessing Outsiders, Aberrations, etc.

For monsters, I believe it will be easiest simply to take the ability scores as presented, while being allowed to move around a number of points equal to the total increases received from their hit dice (so a monster with 24 hit dice could move 6 points around as they chose). No stat may be reduced below three by these movements.

Skills points and feats may be entirely selected by the player, but attention should be...

Meh, that basically ruins any chance of creating a Troll caster unless I go with either a Jotund Troll (16 racial HD) or a Mountain Troll (18 racial HD) and I'd rather not grab something with that much of a hd already :S (Besides, I'd still be stuck with only wisdom based casters anyway)

Back to the drawing board I guess.

Dream,

Would you be willing to allow Paladins as any Good? While this is mostly a mechanics question, figuring out what Akor becomes after 20th level will have a decent impact on him RP wise.

Also, for things like favored enemies/terrains, do you have suggestions? I'm guessing Outsiders, Aberrations, etc.

Not really... I'm kind of a traditionalist when it comes to paladin alignments and actions, I admit. Sorry if that makes things hard on you.

For favored enemies: Outsiders and Aberrations are both good choices, yes. For outsiders, you'd probably be best served by considering the alignment and native sub-types first. I'd recommend magical beast rather than animal, if you're considering that, and Dragon and Construct both correspond to entities that can remain a relative threat even at the power levels we're playing at. Humanoid races aren't a bad idea for later choices either... after all, mortals have a tendency to be among the most meddlesome things around, but usually their meddling comes from interfering with outsiders.

Favored Terrains I don't have much in the way of suggestions on, though. At this level the options you can choose to have (either through your own capabilities or from gear) tend to leave me thinking that you could get yourself and an enemy to a terrain type of your choice with relatively modest effort (well, unless the enemy resists, which might make it substantially harder). The only two that I can think of which might be bad choices are Urban (if you're deliberately fighting in cities at this level, there is going to be a lot of collateral damage) and the Ethereal Plane (because there's really very few reasons to go there, and precious little you can do when you are there).

That being the case, I need to restructure my gear a bit.

For convenience, I am not going to do anything with character creation until I know I am playing. I know I have stated several times that I would like to play in either campaign, preferably this one, because obviously epic level play piqued my interest enough to make a thread for it.

For convenience, I am not going to do anything with character creation until I know I am playing. I know I have stated several times that I would like to play in either campaign, preferably this one, because obviously epic level play piqued my interest enough to make a thread for it.

I probably should wait, but I generally have nearly as much fun creating characters as I do playing them.

Okay, that sounds like a good compromise Dream. I will be coming up with something final soon. Definitely monstrous, but at what level it remains to be seen. Never had so many options before >_>*

My problem is I want to be something that's no larger than huge size, preferrably large or smaller most of time. Being gargantuan or collassal would just be annoying in many situations. I'll try not to post again until I have something I'm gonna stick with.

Well I am sticking with my original idea. Sense I posted him already I just have to wait. Man I hate waiting. xP

Having read the chat about monsters I think that Dream you have it about right with the Change, My idea was always to core or other main book race. I think we would really need a crafter in any party (should I be lucky and be picked.) as I am working with Nets made from the core rules for crafting (I can not find any place where magic nets are listed, there is a supplement chapter in there some place). As I am upping a all ready partly built PC for me its a matter of adding kit and upping states is all.

If i am selected, i will be draing up a crafting wizard, most likely, since i like that it kinda balances the extra value for crafting from the lack of combat feats.

Sooo, I think I got phantom-deleted...I could have sworn I posted this earlier...oh well.

I'll be posting more information later, but here's the quick-run. I'd like to run an Advanced Half-Celestial Aasimar Stormborn Sorcerer 20/Savant 1 (Pathfinder Savant actually, but thought I would remove that "flavor").

Just getting some info out to show I'm really interested - will get more up soon!

Isn't Aasimar already half celestial?