The Avalon Chronicles

Game Master lynora

Madness is not all knowing. That's Knowldedge.

The patrons (with Knowledge being possible exception) are not omniscient.

I made an edit to the above.

Paranoia and phobias are within madness's domain- he could, easily tell where he was going.
It has been removed nonetheless. Not worth the trouble.

Dragonborn3 wrote:

And she knows where the room of someone she's never met before is how exactly?

Madness. She talks to madness constantly. But i suppose it looks far fetched. I'll take it out, it's not worth any problems it may create.

Unless you are saying all Patrons are all seeing and all aware, I /highly/ recommend you check with Lynora first.

Or ignore me, that's a choice too. Personally, all the Champion players would delight in having perfect divination on a whim, so go for it.

Dragonborn3 wrote:

And she knows where the room of someone she's never met before is how exactly?

Madness. She talks to madness constantly. But i suppose it looks far fetched. I'll take it out, it's not worth any problems it may create.

Paranoa is within madness's realm, so he could easily know where party was going.

It's far fetched because she's not following his paranoia, but going where it isn't yet.

icehawk333 wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

And she knows where the room of someone she's never met before is how exactly?

Madness. She talks to madness constantly. But i suppose it looks far fetched. I'll take it out, it's not worth any problems it may create.

Paranoa is within madness's realm, so he could easily know where party was going.

It's far fetched because she's not following his paranoia, but going where it isn't yet.

I suppose.

At the very least, use the walls, use your PC's abilities, not some vague nebulous being. That would be far less deus machine (or however it's spelled, and if I recall you hate), then what you chose to do.

Haven't read the gameplay yet, might need to edit this.

You didn't play her wrong, you took a little too much license. It happens.

At the very least, use the walls, use your PC's abilities, not some vague nebulous being. That would be far less deus machine (or however it's spelled, and if I recall you hate), then what you chose to do.

Haven't read the gameplay yet, might need to edit this.

She talks to madness nearly all the time. it's one of her few good things, what being level three and all. she can carry on a telepathic Conversation and a normal one at the same time without much problem at all. she tends to answer telepathy aloud anyway though. She's known several people's names before she was told. Is that too far fetched?

And this is us 'suing' you, as the same community that helped you with Adon's thing.

Get used to it, this is how a civilized society should work, right?

And this is us 'suing' you, as the same community that helped you with Adon's thing.

Get used to it, this is how a civilized society should work, right?

Well, on your half i suppose. A civilized society shouldn't be near as overly-defensive as me.

Kryzbyn wrote:

It's kind of been established that a champion needs to merely think about where they want to go, and poof.

It apparently doesnt matter if theyve been there before, or aren't familiar with it.

It seems to be a flawless teleport, with no real distance restriction. The only drawback is you can't take others.

This is awesome news, now explain how she automatically knew where he was going without telepathy, precognition, cosmic awareness, or super duper OOC abuse.

Thanks!

Metagaming senses tingling!

Dami, tone please. Asking for clarification is one thing. Disagreement with something and stating that you don't think it should work that way is also perfectly acceptable. Blatant sarcasm for purposes other than humor and accusations of metagaming don't help the discussion and often lead to an atmosphere of hostility.

Now could someone please tell me what exactly you're all talking about?

Damiani wrote:

Kryzbyn wrote:

It's kind of been established that a champion needs to merely think about where they want to go, and poof.

It apparently doesnt matter if theyve been there before, or aren't familiar with it.

It seems to be a flawless teleport, with no real distance restriction. The only drawback is you can't take others.

This is awesome news, now explain how she automatically knew where he was going without telepathy, precognition, cosmic awareness, or super duper OOC abuse.

Thanks!

Metagaming senses tingling!

Dami, tone please. Asking for clarification is one thing. Disagreement with something and stating that you don't think it should work that way is also perfectly acceptable. Blatant sarcasm for purposes other than humor and accusations of metagaming don't help the discussion and often lead to an atmosphere of hostility.

Now could someone please tell me what exactly you're all talking about?

A removed post where tarka champion-ported to someone's room before they got there.

Damiani wrote:

At the very least, use the walls, use your PC's abilities, not some vague nebulous being. That would be far less deus machine (or however it's spelled, and if I recall you hate), then what you chose to do.

Haven't read the gameplay yet, might need to edit this.

She talks to madness nearly all the time. it's one of her few good things, what being level three and all. she can carry on a telepathic Conversation and a normal one at the same time without much problem at all. she tends to answer telepathy aloud anyway though. She's known several people's names before she was told. Is that too far fetched?

Depends on the PC in question, IMHO. Your effectively stealing a pivotal moment for any player by having access to secrets they might not have shared ICly.

Typically a GM answers that question. If I were a full blown GM here, I wouldn't let the players run willy nilly over other's 'content' they created. That's up there, metaphorically speaking, like sleeping with someone's partner and then sharing the fact.

So varies case by case.

Since at least three of us spoke up on the earlier issue, give it some thought. This isn't about taking your few 'fun' things, but telling you you may have, stepped out of bounds.

Ask first?

Hey-- DB3, do you mind if Tarka chases you due to the Madness she can sense (if she can) in Pyry?

Hope I spelled that right.

Without knowing the person besides having a short conversation or ever being to the room before hand.

icehawk333 wrote:

Damiani wrote:

At the very least, use the walls, use your PC's abilities, not some vague nebulous being. That would be far less deus machine (or however it's spelled, and if I recall you hate), then what you chose to do.

Haven't read the gameplay yet, might need to edit this.

She talks to madness nearly all the time. it's one of her few good things, what being level three and all. she can carry on a telepathic Conversation and a normal one at the same time without much problem at all. she tends to answer telepathy aloud anyway though. She's known several people's names before she was told. Is that too far fetched?

Depends on the PC in question, IMHO. Your effectively stealing a pivotal moment for any player by having access to secrets they might not have shared ICly.

Typically a GM answers that question. If I were a full blown GM here, I wouldn't let the players run willy nilly over other's 'content' they created. That's up there, metaphorically speaking, like sleeping with someone's partner and then sharing the fact.

So varies case by case.

Since at least three of us spoke up on the earlier issue, give it some thought. This isn't about taking your few 'fun' things, but telling you you may have, stepped out of bounds.

Ask first?

Hey-- DB3, do you mind if Tarka chases you due to the Madness she can sense (if she can) in Pyry?

Hope I spelled that right.

Oh, in charecter she could just use the walls. I could, have done it normally, but i tried to use her abiltrs in a fun way.

Damiani wrote:

Kryzbyn wrote:

It's kind of been established that a champion needs to merely think about where they want to go, and poof.

It apparently doesnt matter if theyve been there before, or aren't familiar with it.

It seems to be a flawless teleport, with no real distance restriction. The only drawback is you can't take others.

This is awesome news, now explain how she automatically knew where he was going without telepathy, precognition, cosmic awareness, or super duper OOC abuse.

Thanks!

Metagaming senses tingling!

Dami, tone please. Asking for clarification is one thing. Disagreement with something and stating that you don't think it should work that way is also perfectly acceptable. Blatant sarcasm for purposes other than humor and accusations of metagaming don't help the discussion and often lead to an atmosphere of hostility.

Now could someone please tell me what exactly you're all talking about?

Fair enough, apologies.

Forgot, in my sense and emotional reactions, to include my flags at the bottom.

Without knowing the person besides having a short conversation or ever being to the room before hand.

Yeah, that too.

I'll admit it was probably too much. I think i already did.

So, I just removed it, /trying/ to just solve this be removing the problem.
I didn't insist on keeping the action, or anything like that. I just took it out.

Okay, that's been done before and is fine if you're going somewhere you know you're trying to go. Ie. if you are wanting to go to the fictional Janie's room (and now I want to make a character named Janie for some reason...) you can do that even if you've never been there as long as you know Janie and that she has a room and your Patron's concept exists in that room. So if Janie's room was utterly dark with not a bit of light, then Vai couldn't teleport there. Now if you've never heard of Janie and you're just randomly teleporting, then the chances of ending up in Janie's room are extremely small. Does any of that answer the question?

Which I understand and appreciate, but stuff like this does need to be figured out for any future instances.

Okay, that's been done before and is fine if you're going somewhere you know you're trying to go. Ie. if you are wanting to go to the fictional Janie's room (and now I want to make a character named Janie for some reason...) you can do that even if you've never been there as long as you know Janie and that she has a room and your Patron's concept exists in that room. So if Janie's room was utterly dark with not a bit of light, then Vai couldn't teleport there. Now if you've never heard of Janie and you're just randomly teleporting, then the chances of ending up in Janie's room are extremely small. Does any of that answer the question?

The problem was mostly because of the /prediction/ on her part of where Pyry went.

Which I understand and appreciate, but stuff like this does need to be figured out for any future instances.

See, if i ever run into a problem with something, i just stop using it, or using it in whatever way caused the problem.

lynora wrote:

Okay, that's been done before and is fine if you're going somewhere you know you're trying to go. Ie. if you are wanting to go to the fictional Janie's room (and now I want to make a character named Janie for some reason...) you can do that even if you've never been there as long as you know Janie and that she has a room and your Patron's concept exists in that room. So if Janie's room was utterly dark with not a bit of light, then Vai couldn't teleport there. Now if you've never heard of Janie and you're just randomly teleporting, then the chances of ending up in Janie's room are extremely small. Does any of that answer the question?

The problem was mostly because of the /prediction/ on her part of where Pyry went.

I thought since it was a decision made out of paranoia, madness could easily tell what the decision was, or at least a good guess.

Ah. That's where the problem is. No, you can't do that. Even Ephebe can't really do that cause it's too difficult to filter through all the probably futures to figure out which one will be real. You can't predictively teleport to where someone is going to be. You can if you know who they are even vaguely (example: 'that one guy with the mustache we saw sneaking around the back of the tavern in town' is actually an adequate description for this) teleport to where someone is. But not to where they're going to be.

Yeah, so the post is done, and so is the interaction in general.

Which I understand and appreciate, but stuff like this does need to be figured out for any future instances.

Agreed.

I do believe we self moderated this politely, along with a fine dose of my snark.

The bigger issue, which hasn't been resolved, IMHO, is /how/ Tarka would chase a complete stranger, but it was proposed and argued against, that Madness just informed Tarka.

I'm resistant to a Patron's direct assistance as a magic 8-ball for universal "facts".

Within their domain of influence, sure or maybe, but as PCs, the potential for abuse is a touch too high.

I fully accept if someone is GMing a scene, and crazy s!&+ happens for story progression, but that didn't read the case here, merely Tarka ICly (and in essence) chasing someone for personal pleasure/duty, and that meant PvP, in my mind.

Anyone else perceive this? Or am I alone?

It's okay, icehawk. Sometimes folks misunderstand the rules. Happens to all of us. I should probably add that bit about the no predictive teleporting to the campaign info at some point just to make sure that it's clarified for people.

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Which I understand and appreciate, but stuff like this does need to be figured out for any future instances.

Agreed.

I do believe we self moderated this politely, along with a fine dose of my snark.

The bigger issue, which hasn't been resolved, IMHO, is /how/ Tarka would chase a complete stranger, but it was proposed and argued against, that Madness just informed Tarka.

I'm resistant to a Patron's direct assistance as a magic 8-ball for universal "facts".

Within their domain of influence, sure or maybe, but as PCs, the potential for abuse is a touch too high.

I fully accept if someone is GMing a scene, and crazy s#!+ happens for story progression, but that didn't read the case here, merely Tarka ICly (and in essence) chasing someone for personal pleasure/duty, and that meant PvP, in my mind.

Anyone else perceive this? Or am I alone?

If it did resort to him attacking her, one of two things would happen.

Also, Mandness can't be really helpful, not much without breaking rules, to my knowledge. He gives her tons of "facts" but most of the time, they are things she could have figure out on her own, or totally useless.

If she wants to follow the giant raven and the snow leopard(out of place, just barely, even in Avalon) then I've got no problem with.

But if she keeps pushing, he is going to attack. Or try to, with the wards in place.

.. She probobly still wants to, even if i don't....
*sigh*

Playing charecters when you don't want to is annoying, but it happens.

Damiani wrote:

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Which I understand and appreciate, but stuff like this does need to be figured out for any future instances.

Agreed.

I do believe we self moderated this politely, along with a fine dose of my snark.

The bigger issue, which hasn't been resolved, IMHO, is /how/ Tarka would chase a complete stranger, but it was proposed and argued against, that Madness just informed Tarka.

I'm resistant to a Patron's direct assistance as a magic 8-ball for universal "facts".

Within their domain of influence, sure or maybe, but as PCs, the potential for abuse is a touch too high.

I fully accept if someone is GMing a scene, and crazy s#!+ happens for story progression, but that didn't read the case here, merely Tarka ICly (and in essence) chasing someone for personal pleasure/duty, and that meant PvP, in my mind.

Anyone else perceive this? Or am I alone?

If it did resort to him attacking her, one of two things would happen.

One is she gets taken by the wards to heal.
Two is she uses retrograde to heal from the attack.
Either way, she isn't going to attack.

Could care less about Tarka in this situation, to be honest. The victim/abused was Pyry.

Attacking someone isn't always physical and deals with hit points, it's emotional and sociological abuse. Ever heard of the "bullying" issue in schools these days causing kids to commit suicide?

My point is that you were, IC, as a player, chasing your target down and I could not see any way the shy Frostbird could escape your Championed ability, both the teleport AND your disclosed use of Madness feeding details about the universe, like names and where people may be fleeing too.

That's abuse, plain and simple. DB3 may have had the gentle approach to it, but I dislike injustice of this nature greatly. Hence my speaking up and expressing.

Humanity suffers from diffusion of responsibility, and I for one, if I see a fellow creative person being unjustly treated, will if appropriate, react.

Perhaps not with great empathy, but I won't sit idly by and wait for someone or something vague to resolve it.

Any how, glad we could discuss this. I do appreciate the interaction.

She isn't bullying-
That's intentional. She's trying to be friendly- she just sucks at it.

And escape isn't always an option.
Sometimes, you have to face what you're afraid of.

I don't see how my actions were unjust. Perhaps poorly informed, but unjust? No.

Tarka may not be intentionally bullying - but that's what she is doing.

Which is fine, of course, IC is IC. And DB3 has said it's fine if Tarka doesn't want to chase her - just within reason. All good there.

Also...

Tarka may not be intentionally bullying - but that's what she is doing.

Which is fine, of course, IC is IC. And DB3 has said it's fine if Tarka doesn't want to chase her - just within reason. All good there.

Also...

Shouldn't there be another word for that then?

It's not intentional.

So if Janie's room was utterly dark with not a bit of light, then Vai couldn't teleport there.

All matter emits electromagnetic radiation when it has a temperature above absolute zero.

>_>

<_<

Vai is OP. >_>

She isn't bullying.

That's intentional. She's trying to be friendly- she just sucks at it.

And escape isn't always an option.
Sometimes, you have to face what you're afraid of.

I don't see how much actions were unjust. Perhaps poorly informed, but unjust? No.

I encourage you to add such description to your posts ICly, in the future. Something like...

"Tarka poorly presses her point, lacking the appropriate social skills, while making her point."

Or, more layman...

"Tarka, repeating her point, kinda insane like, seems to ignore Pyry's emotions and keep badgering him even after he asks her to leave him alone."

Or even more so...

"It's obvious Tarka's isn't empathic here. She ignores your emotional state and drives her points on with a feverish zeal."

See? Sooooooo helpful, try it. Descriptions help a TON to communicate your point. Just keep it IC.

I was gonna go with "stalker".

Like Lang chasing Ignace into the girl's bathroom...

lynora wrote:

So if Janie's room was utterly dark with not a bit of light, then Vai couldn't teleport there.

Wikipedia wrote:

All matter emits electromagnetic radiation when it has a temperature above absolute zero.

>_>

<_<

Vai is OP. >_>

Her Patron /might be/. We aren't playing the Patrons as PCs though, right?

Or the Noober from Baldur's Gate...

"Heya!"

Yeah - just having some fun with that. :)
Posts are coming!

I was gonna go with "stalker".

Like Lang chasing Ignace into the girl's bathroom...

In my mind, she could burn Lang to a crisp, Avatar or not, so it felt balanced. Plus, isn't Ignace an NPC?

Ic I'm not going to describe her lacking social skills-
I'm going to show it though behavior.
I don't usually explain what my characters are thinking, and i really shouldn't need to- just figure out how and why a character does things through actual interactions, not me just saying her thoughts and intents as an aside.

Granted, i could be more descriptive with physical clues, I'm not just going to outright state how she feels or is thinking. The other character can interpret it much more freely, and incorrectly, this way. Like real conversations.

Kryzbyn wrote:

I was gonna go with "stalker".

Like Lang chasing Ignace into the girl's bathroom...

In my mind, she could burn Lang to a crisp, Avatat or not, so if felt like a fair fight. Plus, isn't Ignace an NPC?

Just because lyn runs it, doesn't make it an npc.

PC/NPC lines are fairly blurry here at Avalon - generally though, anyone who has their own alias is a 'PC' in my mind. For example, Pyry has not yet entered 'PC' status in my brain, since he doesn't have his own alias - DB3 is posting for him under his GM alias.

(Not including Dark Vai who is an NPC - it just felt right to re-use Vai's old alias for her)

Damiani wrote:

Kryzbyn wrote:

I was gonna go with "stalker".

Like Lang chasing Ignace into the girl's bathroom...

In my mind, she could burn Lang to a crisp, Avatat or not, so if felt like a fair fight. Plus, isn't Ignace an NPC?

Just because lyn runs it, doesn't make it an npc.

Lyn has several pcs.

Well, stalker it is!

Isn't he like twice her age too? Dirty pool that young Master of Airbending.

Naw - Lang and Ignace are both 12. Ignace is just developmentally behind due to her neuroses.

PC/NPC lines are fairly blurry here at Avalon - generally though, anyone who has their own alias is a 'PC' in my mind. For example, Pyry has not yet entered 'PC' status in my brain, since he doesn't have his own alias - DB3 is posting for him under his GM alias.

(Not including Dark Vai who is an NPC - it just felt right to re-use Vai's old alias for her)

Noted.

I've yet, with the exception of Raelle out with Ardiente, thought Lynora's people were PCs.

Mostly, to add to this post, due to her characters usually pushing "content" versus exploring "content", if that makes sense.

I'll try putting other glasses on going forward.

PC/NPC lines are fairly blurry here at Avalon - generally though, anyone who has their own alias is a 'PC' in my mind. For example, Pyry has not yet entered 'PC' status in my brain, since he doesn't have his own alias - DB3 is posting for him under his GM alias.

Exactly. Much like the girl going around completely unnoticable(except by a very limited list of things) but is also utterly unable to interact with others at all at this point.

I suppose it depends on how you characterize PC Dami. /shrug.

Not that the label really matters.

It's not like our character walk around with labels "PC" or "NPC"

I suppose it depends on how you characterize PC Dami. /shrug.

Not that the label really matters.

Words define reality, mon ami. Do not trivialize language or its glorious use- especially on a texted based creative gaming forum.

;)

Yeah, sorry, but I don't think that Tarka following Pyry counts as bullying. It certainly is socially poor behavior and involves a total lack of understanding. Might lead to a fight. But well, let me put it this way. A five year old starts following you around asking awkward questions and won't go away no matter how many times you ask. Assume in this example that you are much older than the five year old. At least in your teens. Is the five year old bullying?

Seriously, I think Tarka needs to carry a sign saying 'I'm just a little kid'. People seem to easily forget how young she is. Also Lang, Midori, and Zilla all used similar behavior towards Ignace and it wasn't taken as bullying then. So this really feels like a double standard to me.

Also, most of my 'NPCs' are really GMPCs. I just make an effort to keep them off of center stage unless during an arc that someone else is GMing. To make sure things stay fair.

Seriously, I think Tarka needs to carry a sign saying 'I'm just a little kid'. People seem to easily forget how young she is. Also Lang, Midori, and Zilla all used similar behavior towards Ignace and it wasn't taken as bullying then. So this really feels like a double standard to me.

It's probobly because of the way she talks.