Second chance - Way of the Wicked (Inactive)

Game Master Big OM

I thought it might be best to discuss the contract ooc to avoid to much blue in the other thread.

@ Stanislav, what would it take to convince your character to accept?

@ Vank, How do you think the tribe should be included? I might have a problem with the limited time of service.

My problem is this the wording of the contract is very important for later turn of events and thus changing it might affect this. As always the devil is in the detail with this contracts.

I understand the issue and suspect the contract and its specific working is part of the AP. in general this fails to work because we are taking the relationship from a stranger who saved my life and now I owe a favor to suddenly the stranger demanding I call him master and obey his every whim. Did he rescue me or enslave me?

Stanislav has two issues. The first is the requirement to "obey his every commandment" from the second loyalty. To me this is more a master/slave relationship than a leader/loyal vassal arrangement. If the wording was "obey his legal and sound orders" Stanislav would not have this problem. If this guy says "lead my troops", or "attack my enemies" or "defend my castle" Stanislav is all about it. But if he says "clean my latrine" or "rub my feet" or, worse, "pleasure me" Stanislav is going to laugh and walk out.

Second, I understand that a contract binds, so being referred to as bound is fine, but in a contract BOTH parties are bound. My being bound does not make him the master. He too is bound. Stanislav would like to see something in the contract binding him to doing something more than some arbitrary token reward if we please him. It would almost be impossible for him to break his contract as written. He should sware to act in out best interest, always provide us a place at his hearth, never asks us to do anything that would dishonor us, etc, or something like that.

I hope this makes sense. Stanislas is not willing to sign himself into slavery for life to a man he just met because they both seem to favor the same deity. That seems totally irrational to me.

I uncerstand where you are going with this and I'll give it some thoughts, but i can't promise you anything. I know it is partially to prevent you from attacking him.

As a general coment anything open to much interpretation is not going to work.

Would some sort of demonstration of power work for you?

Demonstration of power would be good. But also a demonstration of his interest in our well being would be good, along with proof that he is worthy of being followed. So far he has cheaply invested in some tools to further some of his own goals. He has done little else for us.

Again the contract seems very very one sided. "Agree to serve me and obey my every whim for the rest of your life and I'll throw you a bone now and I again when I take notice of your exceptional deeds." seems to be the offer. Why would anyone want to enter into such an agreement, especially with a total stranger?

Am I missing something here? Is the hook really that soft? Help me out anyone.

I sort of get what you mean. Frankly, Nadine made a similar request though convincing her at this point is easy. She wanted to know she and her 'family' would get a new life and not be abandoned. The difference is that Nadine is desperate and is willing to cling to anything.

Perhaps simply a pledge that we will be risen up to be great lords in his service and that our names will be beside his when Asmodeus rewards us. Promise us things: power, glory, eternal life, restoring Vank's tribe, 3 slaps of Tiadora, whatever. Show us we're favored sons (or daughters).

That what you mean, Stanislav?

Yes. But it needs to be part of the contract. Right now its so one sided that he could torture us daily, make us eat our own families, amputate our own limbs, and it would not break the contract, as long as he remembers to "reward us as we deserve", whatever that means.

I do not mean to be critical of those of you who have signed it already, but surely the AP author provided more of a hook for us to sign than what is being presented.

Meh.

From my perspective, they just busted us out of Impossible to Escape prison, where we were going to die in various ugly fashions.

He's also offered us power and glory, of both the National and Personal type.

If he wanted us dead, or to do us harm in general, all he had to do was sit back.

Plus, he just fed us, clothed us, and got us some nookie, and offered us a job.

That's good enough by me to continue our association.

I think the assumption is a strong enough tie to Asmodeus that meeting his High Priest makes most other objections only minor.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Do we even know that he is Asmodeus' high priest? 

I like Nadine's suggestion of writing in the rewards. I had been thinking putting in a escape clause, if he came into conflict with Vank's tribe it would void the contract. But if a section on his obligations was added such that if he acted against the tribe he would break the contract.

In terms of the duration Vank is not keen on swearing away his afterlife which he believes strongly (and with good reason) belongs to his tribe not Asmodeus. He would settle on death finishing the contract but feels that the completion of a common task being the nature finishing point.

@ Stanislav, A demostration of power would be no problem, but he isn't interested in your well being he wants your service to secure a kingdom for Asmodeus. You are right in that he has only given you the tool to escape, you did that yourself. But I think along the lines of Robert that the cardinal considers this saving you from certain death. As far as I read the adventure path. What do you think?

The path writes:
Cardinal Thorn is a wily negotiator who has already researched a great deal about these prospective agents. He will tailor his offer so that refusal is unlikely. Greed, revenge, ambition, devotion to Asmodeus -- he is prepared to cater to all these desires to ensure that these escapees become his servitors.

Later on-
This adventure path assumes that the player characters say yes. If after all his best efforts the PCs still refuse the Cardinal, Adrastus is unlikely to be forgiving.

@ Nadine, I see no problem in promising you power.

@ Vank, I don't think you get an escape clause, save for death. The cardinal wants to know you can't and won't rebel against him.

I include the text from the adventure path to let you see what I am working with. There is more story to the cardinal but I can't give you that without spoiling the adventure.

Sending you a PM.

I'm not sure about others but that sound fine to me, it says he will tailor it. Expand the third to last paragraph to add in what he promises to do in return more explicitly (verbally he has promised it but some of us need to see it in writing) and change 'a perpetual contact' to 'a contract unto death'

I don't think these changes should cause a problem to the AP.

Just to let everyone know, the game hasn't stopped. Stanislav and I are working through the contract trouble by pm.

Vank The death clause is no problem, a resurrection addendum might be added though.

Everyone would you please post what promisses your character would like to see added. Tribe for Vank etc.

Nadine just wants an affirmation that she and her 'family' will always be welcome so long as she serves faithfully. At this point, she doesn't even care if it's in the contract. It might actually mean more to her as a personal promise, though she knows if it isn't written, it's meaningless.

Toss in a title (Lady is a little generic; how about Duchess or Baroness?) and she's probably over the moon. Remember, she already signed a pact with Asmodeus, so she's already in. This stuff is just gravy.

I certainly did not mean to derail us and am ready to move forward as quickly as we can. I am trying to always quickly respond to our DM and think we are ready to move forward. ???

Back home ready to keep going. Big Om that sounds fine do you need me to phrase the bit about the tribe or will you do that.

I will get a new draft for the contract up to morrow.

Nadine, as a caster you are allowed spells from level 1 which your current familiar didn't have. You can free of charges choose a number of spells matching what you would have started with. My only rule is that the ones you had prepared should be among the chosen.

In regards to the spellbook. If the rules doesn't allow you to copy them then I won't either. You can have Tiadora try to sell it with the other equipment you have and use the money to buy spells. Fair?

More than fair. Nadine will sell the spellbook then.

Ok, I just did a look back. We found some scrolls and the spellbook in the Warden's rooms. Since we have three days, Nadine will examine those and with the help of her completed familiar, should be able to read/identify all of those.

OM, Can I get a run down of the spells in those, so we can consider selling the spellbook and whether or not to keep the scrolls.

MW Lute will sell for 50gp.

We also picked up the "Astra Mysterii" book from the Warden. 75gp is what it was said to be worth.

I know this is a bit short notice, but I am working a night shift to night and away visiting family Tuesday and Wednesday and will properly first post Thursday.

no problem, enjoy

Everyone still alive?

I am here and ready to move forward. I believe Big OM had a busy week and is planning to post later today.

I know, just thought I'd give the thread a bump to remind everyone were still here.

Ba-dump.

Just waiting to get my evil on...

We talked about what you have looted a few times now, lets try and dot it down to get a figure of your plunders.

Astra Mysterii 75 gp
The warden's spellbook, I am not sure how to calculate the value.
MW lute 50 gp

There were some other items as well, Long bows I believe.

I can calculate the value if you can tell me what spells are in it.

Stanislav had 7 extra longbows and a small tapestry to sell.

Sorry, I'll have a list of scrolls for Tiadora to buy in the next day or so. I thinj we also took some scrolls from the Warden though.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Nadine's full list:

Masterwork Backpack: 50gp
Sunrod (3): 6gp
Bedroll: 1sp
Blanket: 5sp
Belt pouch: 1gp
Candle (5): 5cp
Chalk (5): 5cp
Flint and Steel: 1gp
Healer's Kit: 50gp
Ink: 8gp
Ink pen: 1sp
Parchment (10): 2gp
Scroll case: 1gp
Sewing Needle: 5sp
Rations (6): 3gp
Waterproof Bag: 5sp
Waterskin (2): 2gp
Courtier's Outfit: 30gp

Total: 155.8gp

Scrolls:
Burning Hands: 25gp
Comprehend Languages: 25gp
Enlarge Person: 25gp
Ray of Sickening: 25gp
Total: 100gp

Grand Total: 255.8gp

How much of that is for sale and what do you want to keep?

All of that is for purchase. It's over the 200gp limit, but I thought we were selling the MW Lute, Astra Mysterii, and the Warden's spellbook. There should be enough there for each of us to have an extra bit.

The book contains:

All cantrips in core book

Alarm, charm person, expeditious retreat, feather fall, mage armour, magic missile, mount, shield and sleep.

Bull's strength, flaming sphere, hideous laughter and invisibility.

Lets see how much your loot brings in and then you can devide it any way you like. Nadine would need 55.8 gp.

The book contains:

All cantrips in core book

Alarm, charm person, expeditious retreat, feather fall, mage armour, magic missile, mount, shield and sleep.

Bull's strength, flaming sphere, hideous laughter and invisibility.

Spellbook value:

Total = 385. Sell for half.

So that's 192.5gp for the spellbook.
MW Lute: 50gp
Astra Mystrii: 75gp
Total: 317.5gp + sale of the longbows

7 of them at 75 each = 525.

Half of that for the sales price is 212.5.

So that is a total of 580. Or, 116 each, divided by 5.

in which case Vank's revised shopping list:
Upgrade chain shirt into masterwork breastplate 300gp (350-50 for sale)
Javelin 1gp
Backpack 2gp
Flint and steel 1 gp
Oil 1 pint 0.1 gp
Fishing hook and tackle 0.2gp
Brand with Stormfist symbol on it 1gp?
10gp mix of fresh food and trial rations.

Just to give everyone a heads up. I am going on holiday from Saturday until Monday the third of February.

np, I'm away this weekend anyway. Have fun.

Just a heads up. I'm moving offices at work sometime this week, and I don't know if the I'll be able to access the forums as frequently. So my posting my drop a bit. Thought you should know.

I need to mention that I'll be out of the country on vacation from the 6th through the 15th. I'll have a laptop with me but am not sure how often I'll have internet so my posting could be interrupted, but i hope not too much.

I'll be in very sparse connectivity from the 10th-15th as well.

Just an FYI for everyone. Due to an unfortunate incident with a vampire, my work shift is changing from 0400 - 1230 Mon - Fri, to 1930 - 0400 Sun - Thur.

Since I had designated Sundays to spend with my wife, this shift will cause me to not even turn on my computer during the weekends to spend as much time as possible with her. I will be able to post Sunday nights while at work, but it will be limited. During the week, I will mostly post at night, since I will probably be sleeping during the day. I apologize for the inconvenience, but it's what I have to do.

Not a problem for me, it'll probably mean we will at similar times.

No problem, I am in GMT +1 so it is already off.

Cool by me. I totally understand the bitten thing. :)

Fyi: I will be in Vermont at a ski-weekend this weekend, so posting will be spotty, if at all. I will have my phone but I don't know what the service (or my time) will be like.