Hmm. That's an interesting idea to chew on, and with a 25 point buy shouldn't be hard to make work. I'm doing the solo dad thing tonight while my husband is out of town but once the kid is asleep I'll play with it a bit.
Was just looking at the ways to get into the PrCs. (Being able to call yourself a Knight of the Sword isn't contingent on doing so. I just got curious.) The default path would be probably fighter 3 (gets Bab +3, Fort +4) to Crown 1 (Bab +5 now, Will +1) to Cleric 1 (Bab +5 still, Will +3), to Cleric 2 (Bab +6, Will +4) to Sword 1. First sword level at 7th.
That is baroque.
A warpriest would have to wait longer on the Bab but would have the spells and will covered without a cleric dip. So...Warpriest 5 (Bab +3, Fort +4) to Crown 1 (Bab +5, Will +4) to Crown 2 (Bab +6, Will already set from before) to Sword1. First sword level at 8th. Almost dead even, really. 5 levels of warpriest casting are probably worth more to core function than the two cleric levels would be.
Also poking around saw there's a suicide clause in the Sword Code of Conduct where you can't retreat regardless of situation. If you want to play something like that then ok, but serving as the honorable rearguard is code-acceptable in my book.
One can be a member of one of the Orders with out the PRC though one has to advance in Crown, then Sword then Rose, if that is what is going to take place.
Hmm. That's an interesting idea to chew on, and with a 25 point buy shouldn't be hard to make work. I'm doing the solo dad thing tonight while my husband is out of town but once the kid is asleep I'll play with it a bit.
Cool. :-)
We don't have a knight so that would be interesting.
I can post a couple of stat blocks tonight (they're done but on a different computer) but general concepts I'm playing with (subject to Samnell's approval) are either:
(1) A warpriest build as a Knight of Solamnia, sans spell casting until his epiphany. Currently I'm going "tank" with this, focusing his feats around helping to defend others. His skill ranks are terrible and he may be one of the least educated knights in existence (sad!). If I went with this particular style of build, I'd need to talk with the GM about resolving Immediate Actions because it could get messy.
In terms of a rough background, I'm not quite sure yet what his last month would be like, but I'm thinking he's feeling a bit disenchanted with the Orders; the politicking, backstabbing, focus on status and birth, etc., but personally holds to the ideals of the order. Family lore is that one of his ancestors was a member of the Order of Clerists at the time of the Cataclysm but was murdered. (In truth, he disappeared with the other clerics and clerists, but the family has fallen victim to the same cynicism about the gods as everyone else and what was originally "My that's strange" has changed into the telling to "he was murdered under mysterious circumstances".) He could be from a family of nobility but a bit of a black sheep.
Maybe more recently he was sent off on what his superiors thought a "fools errand" to investigate some rumors, he was a captive at Pax Tharkas (though I don't know how he'd have gear), or... not sure.
(2) A Qualinesti slayer with an archery build. Structurally, this would be much more of a damage-dealing build, particularly if/when the wizard could cast Greater Invisibility on him, but adding in a very high stealth plus decent diplomacy and survival.
If I went this direction, I've got more work to do on the background concept (much less the details), but in very broad strokes I'm thinking he's a bit of an iconoclast, feeling the elves need to engage more with the world around them, that running and hiding isn't going to save them. He could be a scout that was attached to Porthios's unit but got separated, wounded, or is otherwise in tension with Porthios and decides to break off and join with y'all.
I like them both. Perhaps she could lead your epiphany to kiri jolith
I toured the Northern Michigan State Insane Asylum today! It had actual steam tunnels which I, as a gamer, was allowed into. (They're on the tour.) I regret that I did not think to bring a d20 to roll whilst there but I did get a pic. The place stood empty for a decade and is about ten years into a planned twenty year restoration, so lots of it is lovely and full of shops. (I got a book for my research while there: The Frontier Against Slavery.) Had a second breakfast at a great place and was done just in time for the guided tour, which lets you into a derelict building to poke around. Great times.
It was also a full-day trip so I'm going to be making a quick sweep but if there's any lengthy resolution it'll probably wait until tomorrow.
That said, there is also relevant content to this post:
Both concepts are a-ok by me, so this is just logistics talk down below.
(1) A warpriest build as a Knight of Solamnia, sans spell casting until his epiphany. Currently I'm going "tank" with this, focusing his feats around helping to defend others. His skill ranks are terrible and he may be one of the least educated knights in existence (sad!). If I went with this particular style of build, I'd need to talk with the GM about resolving Immediate Actions because it could get messy.
I know what you mean. Asynchronous resolution makes them a PITA. I'm fine with just retconning something once in a while but for a PC that uses them a lot we need more of a system or things would just get confusing.
This is what I'm thinking: When you post for fights -I'm less fussed about them outside combat- drop your conditions and what would happen into your declaration. You can even write it once and just C&P. Then when I resolve I'll see them (hopefully) and include them in the flow as things unfold just like if we were at a table together. It's always fine to change up conditions for use to meet circumstances ("I want to save my ref save reroll for when the dragon breathes!") but if you'd rather treat them as generally used at the first legal opportunity that's also cool. It's your PC; I just need reminders on what it can do because there are a lot of you and one of me.
Maybe more recently he was sent off on what his superiors thought a "fools errand" to investigate some rumors, he was a captive at Pax Tharkas (though I don't know how he'd have gear), or... not sure.
There was a fair bit of chaos during the fall of the fortress. Some of the plainsfolk and mercenaries re-armed themselves. No reason why you couldn't have too. Maybe you're just surfacing now because you spent a while working the column finding your gear and working out trades to get parts back from people who took it at the time because a sword's a sword, etc.
(2) A Qualinesti slayer with an archery build. Structurally, this would be much more of a damage-dealing build, particularly if/when the wizard could cast Greater Invisibility on him, but adding in a very high stealth plus decent diplomacy and survival.
Jakun knows the spell already. :)
Well, pending Samnell's input and approval, here we go.
Stats and backstory (all tentative, see above) in the profile. Comments and advice would be very welcome! This is a wholly new kind of character for me mechanically, so if you see that I'm handicapping myself (and, by extension, you) with a particular choice, let me know.
If it's not obvious, the idea is to try to be a bulwark and take some damage while also helping to defend others with the ability to grant shield bonuses to others. Both his armor class and offensive abilities can be augmented with his Sacred Armor/Weapon abilities. So, the attack doesn't look too great out of the box but hopefully I can tack on some nice bonuses.
~Loren (aka SnowHeart)
PS, forgive the peach fuzz mustache on the avatar. Only ones I could find with a decent 'stache were old men and merchants.
The KOS PRC has great helps if you want to be more body guardy.
maybe the KoSolamnia could have been at the ordination ceremony?
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I like the concept but a couple of things I'd like to point out in the spirit of constructive criticism :)
* Cleave is a feat that sounds great but just does't work out in practice. Perhaps take Quicken Blessing instead?.
* The best thing about warpriests is the fervor, in a way they are the divine magus. I'd be tempted to push wisdom up to 18.
* I'm under the impression you can't cast most spells with a sword and a heavy shield equipped at the same time :( If you use a lighter shield this isn't a problem since your hand is deemed free. Also if you really want s&s then paladin might actually work better mechanically because of smite. Another option is to take a two hand weapon but you need a suitable deity who has one as their favored weapon.
I like the concept but a couple of things I'd like to point out in the spirit of constructive criticism :)
Thanks! It's what I asked for!
* Cleave is a feat that sounds great but just does't work out in practice. Perhaps take Quicken Blessing instead?.
Fair point. I'll look into it.
* The best thing about warpriests is the fervor, in a way they are the divine magus. I'd be tempted to push wisdom up to 18.
It just gets too expensive. I could tank his Charisma but I just don't think it fits the character. :-/ Maybe his Strength...
* I'm under the impression you can't cast most spells with a sword and a heavy shield equipped at the same time :(
Aaaand.... you're right. Completely forgot about needing a free hand. Damn damn. I may look at building the holy symbol into the armor or shield (there are rules for that, I just forget where), but that doesn't resolve the somatic component issue. I'll ponder.
Caitlyn, thanks again for the feedback. I can definitely build a holy symbol into his shield or armor, and a light shield can help get around the somatic component issue though there is some GM input needed here, I think, as swapping a weapon between hands is a free action but the GM can limit the number of free actions a round.
Here's what I'm chewing on, though. Current concept is someone able to provide a needed shield buff to allies in combat as an immediate action. Right now that would be a +3 buff (or higher) with sacred armor active. Dropping that to a light shield decreases the bonus and sets up diminishing returns on the whole thing.
Makes me think a different focus and entirely different feat selection may be in order.
How much do you want to keep the shield? I know paladins can LoH with a light shield or buckler so that should be the same for warpriest too. If I remember correctly you can equip a buckler and still cast but not get the armour benefits that round.
If the shield is not core to your concept why not pick up a two handed weapon? You'll loose some AC but your damage will go up and there are no rules problems with taking one hand off the weapon for a moment to cast (it's a free action).
I don't have any advice over which 2h weapon to use. I was hoping the Dragonlance pantheon would be statted up with favoured weapons but it doesn't seem so.
Edit: you posted while I was writing :)
The shield bluff thing is interesting, have you considered shield other tanking? I once played a paladin who did that and it was very effective.
IIRC a medallion of faith is needed to cast clerical spells in DL
IIRC a medallion of faith is needed to cast clerical spells in DL
Hmm. I'd think it the same as requiring a holy symbol (maybe not?) but I'd certainly defer to the GM on it.
@Caitlyn, they haven't really fleshed out the pantheons on the online sources but the old 3.5 sourcebooks provide good detail. Favored weapon is the longsword for Kiri-Jolith. Warpriest isn't restricted to that, though. If I spend a feat on it, I might be able to use a light weapon and still do 1d8 damage (and more, later) via the class's sacred weapon ability.
In the DLCS campaign setting a cleric cannot cast 3+ levels spells sans the medallion
Re: Medallions of Faith
There's a weird intersection of rules and flavor here. A medallion is the holy symbol, but it's not just a holy symbol. Attempting to remove it without leave gives people a shock. Obviously problematic to have that integrated into your shield or armor. But there's an easy fix: You can wear your medallion so it's visible above your armor. :)
There were other issues with the stat block I submitted (such as totally not using the automatic bonus progression rules) so I've just resubmitted a stat block to Samnell. One of the other things I realized as I re-read the rules was the AC of the shield doesn't affect the bonus granted to allies from the feat, so I'm less hung-up on that being a heavy or light shield. yay!
It's copied below. Any further suggestions remain welcome! (Including, for example, the fact I still have 4000gp to spend and no idea what to spend it on.)
Male human warpriest of Kiri-Jolith 7 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60)
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +4
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Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 11, flat-footed 24 (+10 armor, +1 deflection, +1 natural, +2 shield)
hp 84 (7d8+28)
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +11
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+1, 7 minutes/day)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 keen longsword +12 (1d8+8/17-20) or
. . mwk dagger +11 (1d4+5/19-20) or
. . mwk heavy mace +11 (1d8+5)
Special Attacks blessings 6/day (Good: holy strike, War: war mind), channel positive energy 3/day (DC 17, 2d6), fervor 7/day (2d6), sacred weapon (1d8, +1, 7 rounds/day)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +11)
. . 3rd—channel vigor, deadly juggernaut[UC]
. . 2nd—bear's endurance, bull's strength, resist energy, shield other
. . 1st—divine favor (2), forbid action[UM] (DC 15), protection from evil, shield of faith
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, light, mending, purify food and drink (DC 14)
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 20, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 11
Base Atk +5; CMB +10; CMD 21
Feats Power Attack, Resilient Armor[ACG], Saving Shield[APG], Shield Focus, Step Up, Toughness, Weapon Focus (longsword), Weapon Specialization (longsword)
Traits fate's favored, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -7 (-11 to jump), Climb +2, Diplomacy +10, Heal +8, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Knowledge (nobility) +2, Knowledge (religion) +5, Linguistics +3, Profession (soldier) +11, Ride +3, Sense Motive +8, Survival +8, Swim +2
Languages Abanasinian, Draconic, Elven, Ergot, Solamnic
Combat Gear potion of barkskin +2 (2), potion of bear's endurance (2), potion of bull's strength (2), potion of owl's wisdom (2); Other Gear clerist's half-plate, mwk gold plated light steel quickdraw shield[APG], mwk keen longsword, mwk dagger, mwk heavy mace, campfire bead[APG], bandolier[UE], bedroll, belt pouch, canteen[UE], copper medallion of faith (kiri-jolith) (worth 5 gp, 1 lb), flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), holy text (Kiri-Jolith)[UE], masterwork backpack[APG], mess kit[UE], spell component pouch, trail rations (5), 4,105 gp, 4 sp
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Special Abilities
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Blessings (6/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Fervor (2d6, 7/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Resilient Armor Gain DR 0/Adamantine vs. first attack that hits each rd.
Sacred Armor +1 (7 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +1 (7 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Saving Shield As an immediate action, add a 2 shield bonus to an adjacent ally's AC.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (3/day, DC 17) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
I don't think that Draconic is a language that characters can learn in DL. Also, the medallions are free once you get it.,
Missed the language. I would allow Draconic as something a person studied as a dead language, like we do Classical Latin or Ancient Greek. It's been more than 1300 years here and we still have people who read those.
Happy to swap it out for something else, but I was going for basically all of them as things he learned from books.
Happy to swap it out for something else, but I was going for basically all of them as things he learned from books.
That would fit just fine, then. The dragons have been asleep for thirteen centuries. They wake up to hear his accent.
"Yeah...you can do this one without us."
Does he speak Solamnic?
Does he speak Solamnic?
He does.
Languages Abanasinian, Draconic, Elven, Ergot, Solamnic
Should "Elven" be swapped out for one of the sub-languages? E.g., Qualinesti?
[
Languages Abanasinian, Draconic, Elven, Ergot, Solamnic
Should "Elven" be swapped out for one of the sub-languages? E.g., Qualinesti?
I had to go check, but we are using Qualinesti and Silvanesti as separate languages.
Okay, maybe I've had a few too many mimosas, but my eyes are watering.
Heading to a parade shortly but will endeavor to write something proper for that epiphany. Wow. Thank you for writing that!
Okay, maybe I've had a few too many mimosas, but my eyes are watering.
Heading to a parade shortly but will endeavor to write something proper for that epiphany. Wow. Thank you for writing that!
True story: It was written Wednesday night and ready to go, then I realized Mittens was kind of calling Loren out. I neglected to save it before reloading the tab for a long time so I got the timeout. Figured it was lost and began frequent swearing. Normally I C&P large posts frequently whilst composing so I have a version on hand but I was pretty sure I forgot. I didn't remember doing it.
Opened a text file and tried pasting anyway. There it was. I was so anal I forgot I was being anal!
lol
...then I realized Mittens was kind of calling Loren out.
Wow. That went right over my head. Sorry, Mittens.
Good stuff Samnell!
I remember once there was an episode of Transformers where Grimlock got smart and was very eloquent. I wonder if Mittens would be the same if he got smart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQK1hkHJAks
LOL! I love the G1 Transformers and THEIR movie!
LOL! I love the G1 Transformers and THEIR movie!
The ONLY Transformers show that matters ;-)
hooray!
Just FYI, I was updating my character profile here and was trying to figure out why Resilient Armor was returning a 0 bonus, and in the process I think I've found a bug in Hero Lab on the ABP issue that is giving me ABP bonuses too early. Specifically, it looks like it's calculating Loren as 9th level for ABP purposes even though he only has 7 class levels.
I'm going to dig into it this afternoon and try to fix it. Just wanted to flag it, apologize, and say I'm working on it.
If I have to, I'll go to an old-school format of maintaining my sheet.
Just FYI, I was updating my character profile here and was trying to figure out why Resilient Armor was returning a 0 bonus, and in the process I think I've found a bug in Hero Lab on the ABP issue that is giving me ABP bonuses too early. Specifically, it looks like it's calculating Loren as 9th level for ABP purposes even though he only has 7 class levels.
I'm going to dig into it this afternoon and try to fix it. Just wanted to flag it, apologize, and say I'm working on it.
If I have to, I'll go to an old-school format of maintaining my sheet.
Maybe it's toggled for the "no magic items ever" option? That advances the progression by a couple of levels.
YUP!!!
Thanks; whew. That saves me having to redo the whole portfolio.
How close is Skullcap from our current location?
How close is Skullcap from our current location?
Skullcap is 14 days away at the speed of the column, while foraging, from Pax Tharkas. You've gone three days' in that direction, so it's 11 to go. If you cut loose from the column and provide for yourselves with food (Mariel can swing it with one spell.) then you could get there in five days. Assuming you don't get lost.
How close is Skullcap from our current location?Skullcap is 14 days away at the speed of the column, while foraging, from Pax Tharkas. You've gone three days' in that direction, so it's 11 to go. If you cut loose from the column and provide for yourselves with food (Mariel can swing it with one spell.) then you could get there in five days. Assuming you don't get lost.
I am not sure we want to be away from the column that long...
I am not sure we want to be away from the column that long...How close is Skullcap from our current location?Skullcap is 14 days away at the speed of the column, while foraging, from Pax Tharkas. You've gone three days' in that direction, so it's 11 to go. If you cut loose from the column and provide for yourselves with food (Mariel can swing it with one spell.) then you could get there in five days. Assuming you don't get lost.
Choose your calamity:
1) The Seekers convince the council to do something disastrous.2) The Dragonarmy finds 'em.
3) Both.
:)
Caitlyn has +12 survival so we probably won't get lost, but 5 days there is too slow. We're talking a minimum of 11 days away (I assume we'd have to rest at least once in there). We need faster transportation, or we're going to have to drag the refugees there. That's going to suck (mostly for them I suspect).
So um I see two possibilities:
1. We buy/borrow/steal some horses (there may not be any). I did gave Caitlyn the ride skill for this sort of thing (OK OK, I did it because riding DRAGONs is awesome!)
2. I notice Jackun has teleport and can take 2 others with him at this level (my spidy sense thinks we'll need all of us there). I don't suppose there's some way of scrying the area near skullcap is there?
Thoughts?
I am not sure we want to be away from the column that long...How close is Skullcap from our current location?Skullcap is 14 days away at the speed of the column, while foraging, from Pax Tharkas. You've gone three days' in that direction, so it's 11 to go. If you cut loose from the column and provide for yourselves with food (Mariel can swing it with one spell.) then you could get there in five days. Assuming you don't get lost.Choose your calamity:
1) The Seekers convince the council to do something disastrous.
2) The Dragonarmy finds 'em.
3) Both.:)
EXACTLY!
I think we move along with the column till we get closer and then do our exploration there.
Caitlyn has +12 survival so we probably won't get lost, but 5 days there is too slow. We're talking a minimum of 11 days away (I assume we'd have to rest at least once in there). We need faster transportation, or we're going to have to drag the refugees there. That's going to suck (mostly for them I suspect).
So um I see two possibilities:
1. We buy/borrow/steal some horses (there may not be any). I did gave Caitlyn the ride skill for this sort of thing (OK OK, I did it because riding DRAGONs is awesome!)
2. I notice Jackun has teleport and can take 2 others with him at this level (my spidy sense thinks we'll need all of us there). I don't suppose there's some way of scrying the area near skullcap is there?Thoughts?
Teleport is IN my spellbook but I don't have the ability to cast it 'till 9th level. Plus as I've never bene there before I would not risk teleporting us into the ground... :-)