Rise of the New Runelords

Game Master Harakani

Kingdom Map (now with Loy's family notes AND the Runelord's Route)
Kingdom Turn
Minions Page

[ ]Forsten [ ]Anglon [ ]Valerianna [ ]Denat [ ]Ronald [ ]Simon [ ]Grey
[ ]Zekat [ ]Legion [ ]Molly [ ]Grey Horror [ ]GreyServants [HQ]ZomBees
Fight Map


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'B'.
Happy to give better names when they're explored if you want to christen them.


Male Human Cleric 7 Hierophant 2 / F+7,R+4,W+12 / AC 17/10/17 CMD 16 / HP 48/48 / Init +2 Per +5 / Spells 7/7,6/6,4/4,3/3 / Bursts 6/6 / Mythic Power 7/7

If I remember correctly, the map doesn't go much farther north from the outpost, so we should explore the planes to the east and south.
Map just so it's on this page.


F Human Kinetecist (pyrokineticist) 17

Thanks for the map link. I say lets explore C on our way back to the fort.


Male Human Cleric 7 Hierophant 2 / F+7,R+4,W+12 / AC 17/10/17 CMD 16 / HP 48/48 / Init +2 Per +5 / Spells 7/7,6/6,4/4,3/3 / Bursts 6/6 / Mythic Power 7/7

Should we explore B fisrt just because we are already here?


We will be sooner or later. As we are here, we might as well. It may also provide us with greater knowledge of where the other 'adventurers' made off to.


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

GM, if you put the map links into the Campaign Description area of teh campaign info thread, all the maps will appear at the tops of the gameplay and discussion threads. That would super helpful for us.

For my two cents, I think exploring one hex on the way back is a great idea. I have no preference which hex.


Like this?
Tim


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

Exactly. :)


Male Human Wizard (conjurer) 8/ Archmage 3

I'm back.


I will be at a Family Reunion for about a week, starting sometime tomorrow. Harakani, feel free to 'bot' me if necessary to maintain momentum.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

There's more work to be done, but the first adventure is turned over.

I say we explore B since that's where we are. Presumably a hex takes time to explore, and we have full resources. We can name this hex and decide whether there's time and juice to go to C, or to head back home.


At the risk of being a pain...

Hex B is "explored". There were no remaining hostiles in it so it was just a matter of roles, and time. Apple tree discussion happening in parallel for that reason.

Hex C is under current exploration. Feel free to just travel through it (stopping exploration) if you like.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Then let's pin "C" down, and we'll name both hexes when we get home. Everyone cool with that?


M
Stats:
AC 33 ;touch 23;flat-footed 27;Fort+8,Ref+10,Will+11; Init+6; Percep +23;CMB+7;CMD33
eldritch knight 7/monk (sohei) 1/sorcerer (tattooed sorcerer, wildblooded) 1
Steven T. Helt wrote:
Then let's pin "C" down, and we'll name both hexes when we get home. Everyone cool with that?

Sounds like a plan. Lets do that.


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

sounds good.


F Human Kinetecist (pyrokineticist) 17

DM, can I suggest in the future that you just roll initiatives for us. Otherwise it's basically a day where all we're doing is posting rolls but can't act on them. I found it really easy to create "macros" for all the Initiative rolls (I also have Perception checks and any other rolls I might need a lot) set up in the campaign tab, so I can just copy and paste them in. Saves a lot of time, IMO.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I wanted to remind Taerine that Caillus thinks it improper to tell your eidolon what to do, or even ask. So you played that bit about grabbing the kobold perfectly for him.


Like so?
Anglon: 1d20 + 0 ⇒ (10) + 0 = 10
Arioch: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8
Caillus: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (2) + 5 = 7
Denat: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (9) + 2 = 11
Grey: 1d20 + 0 ⇒ (5) + 0 = 5
Legion: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (19) + 6 = 25
Simon: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (7) + 2 = 9
Skeletons: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (3) + 6 = 9
Taerine: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 13
Thkrull: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4
Zekat: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 2 = 7

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Pretty much. If you do it in the campaign tab, the dice bot doesn't actually roll and leaves it as the text so you can just copy and paste (and I generally just leave the last one as [ dice=Antagonists]1d20+x[/dice] so I can fill in whatever their initiative modifier is).


F Human Kinetecist (pyrokineticist) 17

FYI, I've got at least one person off the next two weeks at work, so I'll be a bit busier than usual. I still expect to be able to post daily (especially in the games I'm playing as opposed to running), but if you're waiting on me, that may be why (please feel free to DMPC me).


On the bright side, I'm Back! Will see what I can add to the game in a moment.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Like that, boss. Only don't roll any more twos for Caillus!


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

Unseen servants can't fly. Just re-read the spell. I guess I missed that part the first dozen times I read it.

Oh well. retcon previous post to "the unseen servants hold them and do their best to keep them away from inquisitive Kobolds"

Not that they could do anything to stop the kobolds from taking them...

I'll just have the undead guard them with orders to not do anything except try to get the polearms back if they are taken (not to attack or harm the kobolds in any way. Just Disarm attempts).


M
Stats:
AC 33 ;touch 23;flat-footed 27;Fort+8,Ref+10,Will+11; Init+6; Percep +23;CMB+7;CMD33
eldritch knight 7/monk (sohei) 1/sorcerer (tattooed sorcerer, wildblooded) 1

I asked about weapons because I have a sword. I'll give it up if specifically asked, but otherwise i'll non-chantly leave it sheathed.


What is the sword? Is this Grandfather's Secret?


M
Stats:
AC 33 ;touch 23;flat-footed 27;Fort+8,Ref+10,Will+11; Init+6; Percep +23;CMB+7;CMD33
eldritch knight 7/monk (sohei) 1/sorcerer (tattooed sorcerer, wildblooded) 1
Harakani DM wrote:
What is the sword? Is this Grandfather's Secret?

Yes. It's an adamantine sword, but I just remembered it was a sword cane. The kobolds shouldn't even realize what it is.

I need to edit my char sheet for clarity. I'll get on that soon. I've got this char on hero builder.


Agreed, sword cane would be fine.


I laughed out loud to the Taerine and Thkrull internal dialogue :)

I have the feeling no-one realises Anglon doesn't speak Draconic!


F Human Kinetecist (pyrokineticist) 17

Glad I could amuse. Thkrull especially is a blast to play...


I have a great deal of fun with the 'internal dialogue' between my Summoner & her Eidolon in a Shattered Star PbP I am in, yes. I have rapidly come to the conclusion that it is a Class I greatly enjoy in PbP, that I would not enjoy nearly as much in Tabletop, simply because of the differences in RP potential & styles.


I'm fine with that ruling, but I'm not sure that's the way that spell is intended to work.

It's effectively a Summon spell. like Mount or Summon Monster, but it summons a weak invisible force construct.

The 35' range is referring to where the creature was originally summoned. After it exists, it can move at it's base speed for as long as it is conjured into existence.

At least that's how I understand it. If your ruling were accurate, Summoned Monsters would vanish after getting a certain distance away from the caster.

Again, however you want to do it is fine with me. I just wanted to explain my interpretation of the spell.


M
Stats:
AC 33 ;touch 23;flat-footed 27;Fort+8,Ref+10,Will+11; Init+6; Percep +23;CMB+7;CMD33
eldritch knight 7/monk (sohei) 1/sorcerer (tattooed sorcerer, wildblooded) 1

Legion is correct. However, the DM was gracious to allow effectively infinite unseen servants. It's a cool effect, but we don't want it getting out of hand. I'm more curious about how they disappeared. The original spell is effectively invisible, but its limited in other ways. I'd recommend allowing infinite copies that can move beyond range, but can't go invisible. They're sitting ducks. All the kobolds have to do is hit it once and it'd dissipate. That's my opinion anyway. DM is welcome to do as he pleases.


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

Not infinite. I can only do a few hundred. :)


M
Stats:
AC 33 ;touch 23;flat-footed 27;Fort+8,Ref+10,Will+11; Init+6; Percep +23;CMB+7;CMD33
eldritch knight 7/monk (sohei) 1/sorcerer (tattooed sorcerer, wildblooded) 1
The Master in Grey wrote:
Not infinite. I can only do a few hundred. :)

Semantics


They disappear because that's what the spell does.

Legion can cast Unseen Servant at will. I just added some fluff to describe how. Essentially it's copying itself, the copy fades from sight, but stays around to do the job it was created for.

It's just flavor. Nothing special.


Quote:
An unseen servant is an invisible, mindless, shapeless force that performs simple tasks at your command. It can run and fetch things, open unstuck doors, and hold chairs, as well as clean and mend. The servant can perform only one activity at a time, but it repeats the same activity over and over again if told to do so as long as you remain within range.

emphasis mine

Now in this case you are basically using the rune critter as Arcane Mark, which is a spell you have memorised. I like the effect, I'm happy to have it, and balance wise you could do it anyway. Happy to say it worked this time.

My worry is giving it an order like "hold this door" or "chop down these trees" and legion straying away.

This section of the spell is vague as to whether when you leave they vanish, or simply stop working.

Quote:
The servant cannot attack in any way; it is never allowed an attack roll. It cannot be killed, but it dissipates if it takes 6 points of damage from area attacks. (It gets no saves against attacks.) If you attempt to send it beyond the spell's range (measured from your current position), the servant ceases to exist.

This section to me implies that of the two options the correct one is for them to vanish.

It sounds like you want a spell closer to the old Unseen Servant from 2nd ed days.

The summon accuser spell is a conjuration spell that summmons a particular critter for 10 minutes/level. Summon Monster IV is the same spell level and summons a variety of critters with equivalent CR for rounds/level.
SMI summons critters in the CR 1/3 range.
I could be convinced for an equivalent spell to summon a particular outsider of CR 1/3 under the same rules as the summon accuser devil.
The question then becomes is it possible to build a Rune-Copy at CR 1/3. You'd be looking for an invisible creature with intelligence, a small amount of strength and "hands" at CR 1/3. You could also get the flying you were interested in. Given you don't care about the combat capability I suspect there exists somewhere a critter that satisfies these goals.


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

You know, I think you're right about me thinking of the effect as it was during 3.5. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'll just tailor my uses of the spell to be more in line with the current description.

The main thing that is different from what I thought it did is that I can't send a servant out to perform a task that is more than 35 feet from Legion.

I had originally considered creating Legion with Summon Monster 1 as it's SLA, but I decided that might be too crazy and far less versatile. I'm really not interested in the combat capability. At a later point I plan on making Rune Constructs that are a bit more potent (or upgrading Legion), but constructs tend to be a really poor return on the money you spend on them.


Just realised I typo'd status as statue.
Grey - I like legion, it is a very cool familiar. Sorry to be coming down on you and we can work together on it if you like. I realise the default is SMI as SLA.

My GMs disagree with you on constructs - I'm usually limited from getting them. I think the trade-off changes significantly when you are in a kingmaker style game though: fast, heavy constructs (tanks) can be incredibly useful in defending a city, even if not incredibly useful in a dungeoncrawl. Simple construct horses for you guys would make an enormous difference.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I rather like being able to set Legion on a task and walk away. Using SM or summon minor monster as the base you mechanically have invisible monkeys (for the thumbs) that clean and such.


HP 36/36, Temp HP 7, AC 12, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +4 Will, Mythic 6/7, Command 10/10, Bolster 10/10

That is pretty much exactly the mechanical representation I was thinking of when I decided on unseen servant. I wanted to be able to create a handful of them, give them orders, and leave. My inspiration was actually the dishwashing scene from The Sword and The Stone. (I fully expect leaving them to their own devices to have unforeseen repercussions someday)

As for constructs, the reason the are a lousy value is because at the level you need to be to make them, and for the amount of money they take to build, and the feat and skill point investiture required to even make them at all, they are a terrible return in terms of CR. On average, any constructs a wizard makes are going to be a full 6 CR lower than the crafted. Created Undead are usually only 2-3 less and cost a fraction as much. Summoned creatures are also 2-3 CR less, and cost nothing. Dominated creatures and Controlled undead can be more powerful than the caster. Even Handle Animal has a lower investment of money and time for a Level Appropriate minion.

The Shield Guardian is pretty much the only construct that isn't badly outclassed from the moment it's created.

I really, really like constructs, and you're completely correct about them being far more useful in a Kingmaker game. They would make great guards and laborers. I just think that in terms of pure economic trade off, it's a little sad that literally every other way to get a minion for your character is a better trade off than Constructs.

A little competitive chart[/spoiler:

In Pathfinder, and Minion a character has is going to require an investment of resources. The resources are: Wealth, Feats, Skill Points, Spells, Character Levels and Time

Each kind of minion requires a varying amount of each of these, and have a power scale that can be compared to the creator. Through that we can extrapolate a value scale.

Constructs: Average of 4-6 CR lower than creator.
Costs: Wealth (high price), Feats (at least 2), Skill Ranks (high craft DCs), Time (high, based on crafting cost), Spells (one time casting is a low cost, but requires many levels of a soellcasting class, or high ranks in UMD and additional monetary cost)
Investment to Value comparison: poor

Created Undead: Average of 2-3 CR lower than creator.
Costs: Wealth (moderate component price), Spells (low caster levels or low UMD)
Investment to Value comparison: high
Note: overall value per creation can be doubled by casting one additional spell.

Controlled Undead:average CR is near controller. Can be higher.
Costs: class ability (channel), feat (some classes get this for free)
Investment to Value: very high
Note: controller is unable to choose the exact nature of their minion. It depends on what they encounter, and the results of the minion's saving throw. However, given the low cost and high CR, this is still an an excellent value.

Summoned Creature: average CR 3-4 lower than creator.
Costs: Spell (requires levels in spellcaster classes, or monetary cost and skill point investment for every casting)
Investment to Value: medium
Note: short overall duration is countered by modularity. Summoning allows a caster to tailor their minion to the situation.

Eidolon/Animal Companion: Average CR equals creator CR.
Costs: levels in ability granting class (feat investment can boost value)
Investment to value: very high

Cohort: average CR 2-3 lower than master.
Costs: Feat, Stat (value significantly increases with high charisma)
Investment to value: very high

Planar Binding/Planar Ally: average CR equals caster. Can be higher.
Costs: Spells (high level, large investment of money or class levels), wealth (potentially high component cost), Skills (high diplomacy required)
Investment to value: high
Note: additional cost for Panar Ally (equal trade for service) is not actually a cost. It is a built-in plot hook, and is thus a benefit to the game and the character.

Animated Object: Average CR varies wildly. Usually near Caster.
Costs: spell (single casting of animate object and permanency), money (high component cost)
Investment to value: varies. Can be quite high.
Note: Casting of Fabricate can greatly aid in increasing overall value.

Simulacrum: Average CR, 2-4 lower than caster.
Costs: spell, money (high material cost),
Investment to Value: high
Note: also requires crafting an ice statue. Skill cost can be effectively removed with castings of fabricate or polymorph any object

There are a few other minion types, but I have to run to work. :)


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Perhaps if/when you upgrade legion you can add a reach spell effect to extend his range quite a bit depending on how much money you want to invest.


That's a good idea.


Grrr, few is supposed to be fey...


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Arioch Bellimarius wrote:
Grrr, few is supposed to be fey...

what?


I re-read my last post, too late to correct it. I typed in few when I meant fey...


F Human Kinetecist (pyrokineticist) 17

I have to travel up to Boston for a funeral on Sunday; I think I'll be offline until late Monday, possibly Tuesday.


Sorry to hear that Taerine


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Beuler? Beuler?


Male Human Cleric 7 Hierophant 2 / F+7,R+4,W+12 / AC 17/10/17 CMD 16 / HP 48/48 / Init +2 Per +5 / Spells 7/7,6/6,4/4,3/3 / Bursts 6/6 / Mythic Power 7/7

Perception: 1d20 - 40 ⇒ (3) - 40 = -37
Nope


At the moment everyone is just talking to each other. Seems like there might be a plan now.

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