Red Hand of Doom [E6] (Inactive)

Game Master Aldizog

As if the grappling rules weren't complicated enough, we've added flying into the mix!
I think this falls under "Rule of Cool" and "Trust the GM if he decides to wing it."

Failing a Hover (and Fly checks in General) depends on whether you are using wings or not from what I've been reading.

If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.

Failing by less than 5 means you MUST move half of your movement; you failed the Free Fancy Action. Though because of the 0 Movement due to Grapple, I think you would end up with just a Standard and no movement at all. If it matters my maximum overhead is 1400 pounds (2800 pounds staggered) so I can possibly keep him midair Due to being Large and Magical Flight

Rule of Cool > Headaches

I swear this has actually never come up with two fliers. I've had people drag Erylium down in RotRL but they didn't have Fly and were much heavier. I've made a rules query just in case and you'd like some second opinions.

Hmm, maybe Bran should try to pin rather than move the dragon this round. It does have a lot of attacks for high damage; Bran got lucky this round and still took 16 damage (15 after DR).

Well, do what you think best. Zelligar will try to help however he can.

@Lavinia: thorny entanglement creates a 40ft. radius zone of entangle, with a 15ft. border where the vines shoot at stuff around it. Currently, you and Dai would be within range of getting shot at by the vines if you want to have the hobgoblins get caught in the entangle zone.

You can absolutely do that, I just want to make sure you knew that bit.

@Bran: To my understanding, if you fail a hover check, you have to move at least half your speed or fall. Grapple rules says you can't move, so if you fail a hover check while in a grapple, you expend no actions on flight(cause you can't) and fall.

However, since you're grappling, the other grappler can maybe carry you. The flight spell says that it fails if you try to carry more than your max load. I'm going to rule the same is the case for other flight speeds.

Per Draconomicon(I know it's a 3.5e resource, but it's the only one which says anything on the subject), large green dragons weigh about 2500lbs. Ozzy is probably a bit lighter than that, but probably no less than 2000lbs.

Bran's weight is obviously up to you, but I expect he'll be on the heavy-ish end of the human spectrum, him being a muscled guy. Enlarge Person multiplies his own weight by 8

Despite having read the spell, it didn't even register with me that it would attack the caster of the spell too. I'd really hate to accidentally kill either of us since we both just entered. I should probably do something less painful to us.

However, since you're grappling, the other grappler can maybe carry you. The flight spell says that it fails if you try to carry more than your max load. I'm going to rule the same is the case for other flight speeds.

Per Draconomicon(I know it's a 3.5e resource, but it's the only one which says anything on the subject), large green dragons weigh about 2500lbs. Ozzy is probably a bit lighter than that, but probably no less than 2000lbs.

Bran's weight is obviously up to you, but I expect he'll be on the heavy-ish end of the human spectrum, him being a muscled guy. Enlarge Person multiplies his own weight by 8

Both of them crashing to the ground would be cinematic for sure. The giant flying wrestler tackling the dragon in mid-air and risking everything to bring it down...

Would Bran be able to use a Grapple or Acrobatics check to make the dragon take the brunt of the impact? If not, I would imagine 9d6 damage to both. Would that happen before or after Bran's turn?

Hmm. Sure. The leader of the grapple can transfer 1d6 of his fall damage to the other guy.

In other news, Dai and Bran's turns have come around.

Should I Hover first or Maintain the Grapple First? Does it really matter?
I'll be moving to pin because the drama of falling and piledriving a dragon is too good.

I'll get a proper post up, just on the way back from work.

@Weight: About 200 lbs without gear? Not really sure but he's pretty big I would say.

Strictly speaking hover first.

The dragon can carry 1380 pounds as heavy load.

Figuring Bran weighs in at 180lbs, he's sitting at 1440 when enlargened.

Threw up a breakdown of numbers again. I have a lot of stuff going on so feel free to take a look and audit in case I missed or added something (mainly WRT to Size Modifiers).

What is Bran's CMD at the moment?
The dragon will probably try to break the grapple, assuming the fall doesn't knock it out. Fortunately that is a standard action.

Bless, Rage, and Dedicated Adversary don't affect CMD, but Enlarge is a net +1. So 27?

I just noticed, I forgot about the -1 to attack due to Enlarge.
Should be a +27 (on CMB) when maintaining that Grapple for a total of 29 (not 30). Sorry Red.

--

@Zelligar: CMD should be 27 (really just +1 from my ticker).

29 if you count the Deflection if I enter Zelligar's range.

I'm going to make an Excel sheet to auto calculate all of these buffs for myself just to expedite when asked.

The -1 to hit from Large doesn't apply to CMB. Looking at Large monster entries, it's clear that you get the +1 CMB instead of the -1 to hit (not in addition to). So still 30.

The deflection from Zelligar is only 20' radius, however, and you are out of that range. Which is why I suggested moving into range when you have a chance.

You know, I literally just read your example with the Ogre after I posted that.

Sorry its been a long day here. Getting the classroom ready for the start of the school year.

I believe - but might be mistaken - that Strangler lets you count as flanking for the purpose of dealing sneak attack damage only. I don't think you get an actual flanking bonus out of it.

Just like how a warpriest has full BAB for the purpose of qualifying for feats, but doesn't then count as full BAB for power attack progression.

I dunno. It's not like it makes a difference here anyhow.

By the by, didn't you get hit by the arrow?

Voltron Bran

Rage, +4 Str, +4 Con, -2 AC, +2 Will (1 Round)
Charge Penalty (-2 AC)
Hand in use Grappling (-2 AC)
Challenging Ozzy (+1 Damage, can Grapple after a Full Round)
Fly
Martial Flexibility, Dedicated Adversary, 2/10 Rounds
Barkskin, +2 AC
Protection From Energy (Acid), 30/60
Enlarge Person

This seems to imply to me an AC of

10, +7 armor +2 dex, +2 shield, +2 barkskin, -1 size, -2rage, -2charge, -2challenge(for everything that's not the target of your challenge)=16?

I think AC 18 should've been a hit.

That's not good.

Iris, Lavinia & Zelligar are up.

Im making a lot of mistakes this week :( . Yeah will update that. I'll narrate the arrow on the descent to the ground to maintain immersion.

When Flanking you get a +2 for attack rolls so I would assume it would work on the maintain as it's an attack roll. There's no official word on it however so we can rule otherwise if you'd like.

Also does Damage reduction apply to fall damage? I'm shocked I'm still moving.

I think Bran is at 20 HP with 4 NL (plus the 10 fake HP from rage). Zelligar will heal Bran next round, couldn't get there in a single move. (Not meaning to nitpick, but we are all very invested in Bran's continued survival and every HP counts.)

But he's pinned the dragon and hit it with a 90-foot freefall piledriver!

I added the nonlethal in for simplicity because if I go unconscious I'm going to die from Rage anyway, though with it being this tight I'll track it separate. I wouldn't want to die after such a reckless (and cinematically cool) maneuver either.

We're both Prone now (from taking fall damage) so thats a plus! No more stray arrows... Hopefully. They cancel each other out which is nice for maths!

And yeah the number to beat is 27 (now 23 due to Prone). If my students found all of these simple math errors and me missing numbers I'd never hear the end of it so let's keep this between us :P

CMD is now +2 deflection because Zelligar moved so you are in range of his aura. In the future will prep Shield of Faith to use on Bran since it will do double duty.

Didn't see you moved up toward the treeline. I'm on a roll for bad posts right now.
CMD 25 (with Prone, Deflection and the whole menu of options).

Hey, no worries. Lots of things to keep track of.
They don't call it Mathfinder for nothing.

Just wait till you see how many mistakes I can fit into a week. You will feel better.

It could be worse, Lavinia. You could send a dragon directly at the party.

Im making a lot of mistakes this week :( . Yeah will update that. I'll narrate the arrow on the descent to the ground to maintain immersion.

When Flanking you get a +2 for attack rolls so I would assume it would work on the maintain as it's an attack roll. There's no official word on it however so we can rule otherwise if you'd like.

Also does Damage reduction apply to fall damage? I'm shocked I'm still moving.

Damage reduction applies to falling damage, yes.

Zelligar raises a good point regarding the Hell Hound - the one that ran is denied its dex bonus until the start of its next turn, so Tal'ariel is able to sneak attack it.

Dai and Bran are up.

Everything changes.

Damn! Wish I had built to give rerolls. So used to them being available in PFS.
But it is still prone, so there's that.

Since Bran doesn't actually qualify for the Secret Knowledge trait (unless he truly worships Norgorber), there is this:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/called/

:>

Lets dance.

At first there was an enlarge, halfling cast fly.
Kept thinkin' I could never grapple a dragon by me and my.
Then we spent so many turns, nothing could go wrong.
And I grew strong.
And I learned how to get along.

I will survive.

@Trait: I just wanted Religion, I'll find another Religion Class Trait. Can't change it now. Will swap it for a generic +1 and CS for the time being. I wasn't using Archives at the time and now I see its for Norgy.

Well there is always Additional Traits.
My cavalier had Called. When a charge does 3d8+120 damage and you only miss on a 1, rolling a 1 sucks. Similarly for Bran.

Should we survive, reroll spells and abilities are a priority for Zelligar.

Oh thats a good one. I'll have to consider it.
After getting Greater Grapple (if we make it there) the rest is pretty open; though after seeing the pincushioning, I'm seriously considering Body Shield lol.

If I can survive a Full Round Attack (from the Floor) I can launch back with my own and hopefully nail a Grapple with my Order Ability.

If

Lucky Bran.

Iris, Lavinia and Zelligar are up.

Lavinia you might want to consider hitting all the archers with glitterdust and running away from where you currently are.

Just a thought, anyway.

So is the dragon still prone? Sounds like it might be wise for Tal to come over if she can.

-Posted with Wayfinder

She's pretty far away. I think more than a double move.
Any long-range spells or scrolls?

Oh boy.
I was sweating as I was reading that full round.

With two v one we may be able to stabilize the board against Ozzy. I think I have to press the attack while Zelligar is here and make use of the effective +4 from prone.

Does Tal'ariel have access to a protection from evil spell? I believe that would prevent the hellhounds from being able to attack her.

Only works on summoned evil outsiders, not all evil extraplanar outsiders. Not if they're called. Which is the long-term thing.

Then again, calling spells aren't really a thing in e6.

Next round, Tal'ariel starts off.

What kind of action would it be for Iris to command the goblins to fall prone? [goblin]"Enemy crossbowmen! Incoming volley! Drop to the ground!"[/goblin]

Speaking up to twenty-five words is a free action. Given that they have a sergeant already there shouting orders, I don't think that's gonna work.

It might if they are blinded by glitterdust and she imitates their sergeant's voice perfectly. ;)

Bunch of blinded foes and you're a rogue! It's like your birthday, Iris!

Bran has a few options. Full attack and grapple? Dragon gets a full attack if he doesn't drop it.
Full attack fighting defensively? -4 to hit, but dragon is prone so +4 there, and +3 AC is nice.
Stand, attack, and 5' step? Dragon can only counter-attack with the bite (I think) and provokes an AOO if it moves. Not sure the terrain allows a 5' step but maybe to the NW?

Zelligar is down to one CLW (1d8+5), then Channel or the wand.

We fell next to each other due to grapple pulling both targets together. So even if I stand, and 5 foot he still gets a full-round (10 feet of reach I'm assuming). And if he gets to the sky we'll all be strafed down. He has to remain grounded at all costs.

The best option is to Full-Round Hammer and hopefully land an attack, then a successful grapple (triggering Raging Grappler) for effectively 2 hits. I have Fight Defensively and 1 Handed Grappling as D Options if they're necessary but it will only prolong things and we're short on time.

Bunch of blinded foes and you're a rogue! It's like your birthday, Iris!

Well worth the sixty foot plunge. Hopefully we can slaughter these hobgobs in a timely fashion and come to your aid.

I'll need a flanking buddy. How long will it take you to arm yourself, Dai?

Will you be using Burning Hands next, Lavinia?

Is it possible to do ventriloquism without magic using skill alone? If so, which skill would be most applicable?

Bluff or maybe Perform of some sort. I would think it's possible as it's a mundane thing even we can do in the real world so you wouldn't need magic (though I guess it would help).

Turn goes to Bran and Dai.

Do any range increments apply vs Zelligar?

-Posted with Wayfinder

Yeah, two of them are firing second range increment.