It's awesome being the "fighter" and missing 3 in a row!
Maybe we can start calling you the flawed fighter? ;-)
Say bye bye to kimberly...
Nahhh, everything is fine... really.
Mr Crowley?
Ooop, it's supposed to be Dr. Crowl, not Crowley, and he is the university contact who should be getting the delivery of books. :)
This brings up an interesting (to me) topic of discussion. I'm curious of your input on the matter if you have anything to add.
This last scene, already guessed by some to be the next modules plot hook, failed to capture the interest of the entire party. Which I don't really mind a bit, because it makes things feel more organic, natural and honest when people play their characters more than the play the 'module'.
However, the other side of the coin is that for a GM like myself, trying to run a group 'off script' because for whatever reason the group isn't interested in the module is a little scary. I realize this is a big limitation of mine as GM, but GMing off script and dabbling in the pre-made module seems much more difficult and time consuming compared to running the module and dabbling in the 'off script' stuff. So I feel like I tried extra hard to steer the group one direction during the last scene, rather than let things play out organically.
That's not to say that things couldn't have looped back to the AP, just in a different way than the module has laid out, but when things started turning south I felt a little panicky. I started having visions of running a homebrew campaign and having to cut way back on posting frequency in order to craft the quest by hand, and other irrational worries. I want to be VERY clear, that this is not a plea for people to stay in line and not play your characters honestly and how you want to. Rather I'm interested in your experiences as GMs and/or players, in how you dealt with leaving the path laid out in the module because your group mentality naturally led away from it. You all are my first and longest running group as GM, so now you get to truly see my green-ness to the practice.
That's question one.
-------------
A secondary, and less important, discussion is for my understanding, but I was a little confused by Tolvan and Anna's attitudes last scene. I'm quite curious about Anna's attitude from the get-go, she just didn't seem happy to be there, or happy about anything the judge was saying. What was clear was that she's still recovering from the traumatic experiences at Harrowstone (understandable and I love the RP there) but what didn't come accross to me was how the conversation triggered such feelings/flashbacks for Anna. If you, Anna, are just playing what feels normal and off-the-cuff, and haven't thought this topic out that much, I'm ok with that. If, however, there's a long-term, planned out, road to recovery while Anna deals with the horrors of her recent past and it's influencing her interactions in ways I haven't tuned into yet, I'd be interested to learn them. Feel free to PM me if you'd like, to keep the intergroup conversations honest or whatever. :)
Tolvans actions/attitude also had me confused, but to a lesser degree as you explained pretty well what Tolvan was feeling and why. I was surprised at the abruptness of his decision not to help. What I understood was his wanting to feel like an equal with the judge, and not a lacky, and also wanting to satisfy his burning thirst for knowledge by reading the book he'd been keeping safe. I didn't understand, and possibly failed to notice, the rational behind the attitude Tolvan took. While a trusted friend of Professor Lorrimor, he was basically 'hired' to do a service with a set and pre-arranged reward of platinum upon completion of a delivery. Not to dismiss the hell that he and the group went through in Ravengro, but those heroic efforts and actions were above and beyond the scope of the Professors will, and I'm not seeing how the judge would know to think of you all as anything other than 'lacky's' delivering a book and completing a service. Forgive the term, Tolvan's, not mine. :) I got the impression that Tolvan felt a little entitled to read the contents of the book, as if his difficult and harrowing experiences since arriving in Ravengro somehow warranted more than was agreed upon in the will. While the Judge trusted the Professor and so, by extention, the group (thus her asking you to assist the Beast in a fair trial), I don't see how the experiences would imply that it was ok to read the book. What I was expecting was more along the lines of a request and a denial followed by frustration or irritation, the offense was farther out on the spectrum than I anticipated and I'm thinking I may have missed something. Like Anna, feel free to PM if this is personal to the character and is better discussed in private.
-------------
Finally, sorry for the wall of text. I don't believe it will but I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. Genuinely seeking advice and information here, not questioning your characters or playing style, just hoping to understand them a little better. Thanks!
Ok, first I have to say you handle thing that I can tell of off script exceptionally well, so relax there. Of course I may not be right about what is and is not off script, but I am pretty sure all the stuff involving ex PCS, that added a lot to the story, had to be off script.
Second, I am very happy with our pace and if you need to slow it down some to keep the quality up I will certainly be ok with that.
As to Tolvan's reaction - I agree he had no right to the knowledge of the book. He (I) was really tempted to open the book and read it anyway, as Tolven's sense of right and wrong are somewhat skewed with the idea that he needs to know everything and the greater good will be served if he does. But in the end Tolven decided that even though he had not given his word to the professor he would do as the professor asked. Maybe that was an error in my playing him. In hind sight I am thinking Tolvan should have just read the book, justifying it by saying to himself that the good professor surly could not have meant for him to be excluded from the information.
And aside from the current plot hook, Tolvan was really on the hunt for the cultists. Its an easy call to decide that they are more important to tackle than helping some possible criminal that might or might not deserve help. Its almost like the superman plot where he is forced to save Lois Lane or divert the missile about to strike the city. Both need doing, but how do you pick.
So with the moral dilemma already in place, when the judge brushed off Tolvan's interest in the book like he was an errand boy, he was offended. And when she asked him to do something as a favor for her, like they were friends, he reminded her that her behavior towards him was less than friendly. In the end he saw that she was trying to respond to his concerns and reconsidered.
Not knowing anything about the book and why the judge is not suppose to talk about it makes it hard to suggest alternatives for her. But it seems like some effort at appeasement could have been attempted. "this book deals with a group of friends who were lead astray and are trying to make amends. I have promised to protect their efforts and telling you more about it would betray that trust and endanger them... " kind of thing.
Understood, thanks for explaining that, it helps very much. I agree she kind of brushed him off, and then had to backtrack when things turned south. She (I) could have probably handled that exchange differently. Ah well, sest la vi ;)
I had just typed out my reasoning for Anna's reaction, but went ahead and deleted it. I think we should play this out (which I have to wait until tonight so I can get to a better keyboard) in the game. Then, I'll post here to make sure it's clear. I don't want to derail the adventure, and I'll work to bring us back to the main plot -- I might send you that requested pm Mug, to give you some ideas.
Understood, thanks for explaining that, it helps very much. I agree she kind of brushed him off, and then had to backtrack when things turned south. She (I) could have probably handled that exchange differently. Ah well, sest la vi ;)
You know, to me my motives are always clear as crystal. :)
Whatever you'd like to Anna, up to and including keeping your cards close to the vest. :)
I think the Players and GM have to manage a balance that there is between AP and character/personal story. NPCs, too. Feels like being given a script for a role. The story is there, but it's what you bring to the character that makes it special.
Not sure the proportion, 80/20 rule?
With a LG Paladin of the Redeemer, it was an easy sell. A trusted judge is asking help to ensure justice. No brainer. Being trusted not to "peek", easy and honorable. To ask to peek after the deed, lessens the deed a bit.
Andjela "stumbled onto" the other characters' story in book one. She followed. But this is a new chapter, and she'll come into her own. Speak her mind and stake her claim. The playing field is leveled.
Kimberly just wants everyone happy.
lets have a tea party...
My 3yr old made us have a tea party this last Sunday, after dinner. With dessert, of course!
That sounds good and very martial. Thanks for the input. I'm not sure of the proportions either, I imagine most groups find their own balance based on the group dynamics etc.. Good stuff.
Danica is taking the postion of "righting a wrong". As an inquisitor and follower of Sarenrae, she needs to determine if this 'Beast' can be saved. One of the qualities of a follower of Sarenrae is to help those who want redemption, right the wrongs and stand up against any bad guys.
I hope you guys are ok to continue the tavern conversation in flextime and I'll move the main story along for everyone. I don't want to cut off the scene, but also don't want everyone to wait before moving things along. Cool? Cool.
I'm good. Just to speed things up, If Kimberly and Danica do not take the hint and head back with Andjela Tolvan will ask them to directly, but nicely.
Are we trying to save Frankenstein's monster?
Are we trying to save Frankenstein's monster?
this is the pathfinder equivelent of Ravenloft so I guess so...
I dunno, was Dr. Frankenstein related to ... oh! I almost gave up a spoiler! :)
and you're just aiming to give it a fair trial, it could be guilty you know! ...possibly.
We never resolved Tolvan's spellcraft roll for the small magical dagger given to us by the kin. Tolvan's roll was a little low - a 16. I do not recall how high I need to know what. Also Kimberly, as the only small character you should write down, and use the small breastplate and shield and the dagger.
Ah, I thought we had. Thanks for the reminder.
The dagger is a +1 humanoid (shapechanger) bane dagger.
Also good advice for Kimberly if you haven't already recorded those things.
no I forgot to write it down will get to soon.
If DM or player wants to roll for me... Please do. +1 Perc, -1 Surv. I'm swamped, no pc.
I think all checks have been hit actually. :)
Think we got all the perceptions already and you are not gonna help much on the survivals. :)
I am camping and canoeing with scouts this weekend. Will check back in late Sunday.
Thanks for the heads up, have fun!
Woohoo... The Great Outdoors.
Sorry I missed Anna's exploration of the window area.
Hey, nothing wrong with a little redundancy. :)
Sorry guys. Was away this weekend and I had no cell phone or other connectivity in the wilder lands of northern PA. Went to a camp for martial arts training Friday to Sunday morning.
I'd like to do some Flex time posting, especially the Perception roll for the worker that wants to speak to us. Let me know if that is ok.
But of course, that's what flex time is all about.
A camp for martial arts training? That sounds amazing!
Andjela brings up a good point in the gameplay thread. Concealment vs Cover in this instance, but really I'm extending that to include intentions vs gm understanding.
I'm not pro or con one of these more than another, and I try to follow my interpretation of the situation based on the information I have. If you guys say you're moving to cover, rather than trying to conceal yourselves, that's how I'll play it. Especially in situations which are a little ambiguous, like this one. Where there's trees and reeds (like Anna's hiding in) for example. So if you're specifically looking for something, like cover or concealment, state your intentions (aka: State your case. Not just what you want, but why you think you should get it, ideally combined with a flavorful post) and then I can make a more informed call as GM. Otherwise we're left to my interpretation and understanding of these situations. Lastly, make these intentions known before a round gets resolved, so we don't have to play patch-up after the fact. Cool? Cool.
PS - Stating your intentions does not mean you'll get it, it just means I'll able to be more accommodating and informed as GM, thus making your desires more likely to be fulfilled.
The dice tell the tale...
I just reread the two again, and it seems Cover (there's something in the way), concealment (they don't see you).
I guess I was aiming for (excuse pun) improved cover... shooting through a split tree trunk for example. Or between two trees. Andjela would be close to the trees, allowing her to easily shoot through them (like an arrow slit) but the creature has no such benefit being out in the open (thought it was airborne).
Now, none of that matters if the dice suck... because Andjela will just keep missing.
PS: Anna's 1 was heart-felt, because that would have been 1d10+2d6+1, sweet! The Manticore having been flat-footed.
EDIT: Andjela for all her BAB, is a light fighter, light armor and no shield... having to take advantage of whatever the environment offers.
Perfect, those are exactly the type of descriptive words I can use when constructing the battle each round. Otherwise, you're stuck with me. Danica, in Round 2 post, mentioned waiting for an open shot. I can work with something as little as that, but the more flavor the better imo.
Yeah, Anna's would have been pretty potent, that's for sure.
EDIT: And you're right about the creature being airborn, just there's a bunch of trees between you and it.
But, I don't know that there are those things... So didn't want to assume.
Hardly anyone shouts, "Duck for concealment!"
Yeah yelling that out certainly wouldn't fit, but possibly something like
"Everyone get some cover!" and try to hide as much of my body from the creature as possible, but still be able to hit it.
I'd likely interpret that as going for concealment, and consider the possibility. And you could add a quick ooc message to make it easy for me if you think I might miss what you're going for --before I've resolved the round of course. :)
Sure thing.
Tolvan wanted AC bonus, i.e. cover. I would say concealment offers a miss chance, and a chance to stealth.
I believe both cover and concealment gives you an opportunity for stealth.
I believe both cover and concealment gives you an opportunity for stealth.
You are both correct, according to the prd :)
So, how does one go about sourcing the following:
- MW Large Heavy Repeating Crossbow, -2 penalty to Hit, does 2d8, cost 1100gp?
- Gravity Bow Item, makes it 3d8, cost 4000gp?
- Efficient Cartridge, along the lines of Efficient Quiver, 15-20 bolts, 1800gp?
- Heavyload Belt, 2000gp?
Tada...
Forgive my ignorance, but by 'sourcing' you're referring to obtaining those items, correct? As in, location and cost of them?
Also, I haven't seen anything about flying not being able to run. I have seen the fly spell specifically mentions running isn't possible, but to me this gives weight to the thinking that natural flying would be able to run, since magical flying is unable to. I'd like to proceed under that paradigm unless someone has some evidence to the contrary. I'm all eyes. :)
I want it? :)
Run-flying is fine...
@GM Mug - misread your post. YES! Looking to churn some output.
I suspect the courtroom duties should fall to someone with more charisma than I. Andjela?
Sure, just giving others a chance if they wanted.
Kimberly is good charisma to, also good diplomacy