TOZ's Assault on the Wound [PbP Gameday VI] (Inactive)

Game Master TriOmegaZero

With one unit of the Schir destroyed, the Army of Exploration turned its attention to the other battalion.

Your next job is going to be worm food you sorry demons! Say hi to my ex mother-in-Law when you get back to the Abyss! Charge the left flank my brothers! Lorian said as he led the army to attack the demons flank.

Oret's army presses on as hard as they can. But the battle is starting to take a toll on the group mentally and physically. "Don't give up hope! We must not let evil win!"

Morale check to change taunt target to White: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (1) + 5 = 6
OM: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (1) + 6 = 7

Changing cautious to standard. DV=16. The dice roller indeed does really hate me!

morale check: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 13
[spoiler=Actions]Move: combat
Tactics: Standard
Ranged attack: OM+7
ranged attack: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (18) + 7 = 25
Melee attack] OM+7
melee attack: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (19) + 7 = 26
Well I rolled well on the attacks but looks like a ran away before I could attack. Sorry guys this fight is looking really bad for us. We are all almost dead and we haven't done much to the enemies. Pretty much woefully outclassed.

The Mammoth Riders are broken and scattered by the nightmare army, a final contingent standing to fight as Ionnia is rushed from the battlefield to safety. Despite the best efforts of the Five Kings Pikemen, the Pathfinder Field Agent force is also decimated, Dryden managing to retreat behind the pikewall. Lorian and Nemesis continue to fight the good fight, unaware of their allies strife.

Combat 1 (Nighttime Battle: -2OM/-3DV without Darkvision.):
Stitched Horrors (Damage: 19)
Ionnia's Mammoths (Damage: A lot, Destroyed) Morale Check needed against Fear. If it is successful, the Mammoth Riders will get one last melee phase before being destroyed. :(
Stitched Army Relentless Brutality: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (15) + 11 = 26

Combat 2 (Dusk Battle: -1OM without Low-Light or Darkvision.):
Dryden's Field Agents (Damage: 24, Destroyed)
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 11)
Green Dretches (Damage: 5)
White Schir
White Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (2) + 3 = 5
Green Melee on Dryden's Field Agents: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (13) + 7 = 20
White Melee on Oret's Pike Infantry: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (15) + 6 = 21

Combat 3 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.):
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Nemesis's Warpriests (Damage: 4) Melee Attack remaining for this round.
Yellow Schir (Damage: 5)
Blue Dretches (Damage: 13)
Yellow Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (13) + 3 = 16
Yellow Melee on Lorian's AoE: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (17) + 6 = 23
Blue Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (9) + 7 = 16

Nemesis and Ionnia have actions remaining for this turn. Combat 1 will be over, while 2 and 3 remain to be resolved.

"Be bloody, bold, and resolute!" Nemesis cries out to her army.

standard melee vs dretches, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (12) + 10 = 22

Nemesis' Warpriests batter the dretch horde, and the enemy wavers, but stands firm!

Combat 2 (Dusk Battle: -1OM without Low-Light or Darkvision.):
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 11)
Green Dretches (Damage: 13)
White Schir

Combat 3 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.):
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Nemesis's Warpriests (Damage: 4)
Yellow Schir (Damage: 5)
Blue Dretches (Damage: 18)
Blue Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (20) + 5 = 25

Moving 2 and 3 along, as the stitched army cannot move until the next day and will not be participating in these other combats. Dryden was also supposed to attack before his morale check, so I have corrected the damage to the dretch army. All remaining forces may make melee attacks, and the Mammoth Riders still have their final defiance left to take.

Lorian lead the Army, continuing their relentless assault on the Schir.

Aggressive, continue Taunt from last round. +2 for them being unmounted.(added to roll.)
Melee: 1d20 + 13 ⇒ (12) + 13 = 25

OM: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (12) + 6 = 18

Oret's army starts to pick up some momentum late throughout the battle, but their unsure if it does them any good at this point.

DV=16

Oret's infantry stand firm against the 2:1 odds against them, taking and giving little damage. The Army of Exploration crashes against the schir forces, but the hideous goat beasts rally against the stinging barbs of Lorian's tactics. (Two successful Morale checks has made them immune to Lorian's taunt. The dretch horde inflicts light casualties against the Mendevian warpriests before they counterattack.

Stitched Horrors (Damage: 26)

Combat 2 (Dusk Battle: -1OM without Low-Light or Darkvision.):
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 14)
Green Dretches (Damage: 14)
White Schir
Green Melee on Oret's Pike Infantry: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (10) + 7 = 17
White Melee on Oret's Pike Infantry: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (12) + 6 = 18

Combat 3 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.):
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Nemesis's Warpriests (Damage: 6)
Yellow Schir (Damage: 16, Immune to Lorian's Taunt)
Blue Dretches (Damage: 18)
Yellow Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (19) + 3 = 22
Yellow Melee on Lorian's AoE: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (3) + 6 = 9
Blue Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (13) + 7 = 20

Nemesis has an attack for this round, and then everyone may make their round 5 attacks.

Nemesis's troops turn their magic toward each other, bringing most of their casualties back to their feet!

Round 4: standard melee vs dretches, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons, Channeling Positive Energy: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (12) + 8 = 20 and my army heals 5 points!

"The gods are on our side! Forward! UNLEASH HE...uh...Heaven! UNLEASH HEAVEN!!!"
"Lieutenant, fetch me an antiemetic."

Round 5: standard melee vs dretches, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (2) + 10 = 12

Since Oret's tactics did you change due to failed morale check, would he not still be taunting white? i.e. they still need to make a morale check vs Oret's army when making a attack roll?

You are correct, I missed adding their roll in.

The crusaders smash the schir army and scatter the survivors to the hills, as Oret's tactics render the remaining schir ineffective in the hard fought battle.

Stitched Horrors (Damage: 26)

Combat 2 (Dusk Battle: -1OM without Low-Light or Darkvision.):
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 12) Melee Attack remaining.
Green Dretches (Damage: 14)
White Schir
White Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6

Combat 3 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.):
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13) Melee Attack remaining.
Nemesis's Warpriests (Damage: 6)
Yellow Schir (Damage: 22, Destroyed)
Blue Dretches (Damage: 18)

My army should be at only 1 damage now; they healed themselves with their Channeling power.

Oret shifts his army's focus on to the White schir's as they notice the morale dropping on that side. They swing as hard as they previously did. It seems to be a true test of determination and perseverance for Oret and his army.

OM: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (11) + 6 = 17
DV=16

I had just missed the edit window when I saw that. :(

Oret's infantry takes a savage beating as the demon hordes surge back against the lines. Nemesis' warpriests continue to hold the line.

Stitched Horrors (Damage: 26)

Combat 2 (Dusk Battle: -1OM without Low-Light or Darkvision.):
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 22) Need a morale check to avoid routing. :(
Green Dretches (Damage: 14)
White Schir (Damage: 6)
White Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (7) + 3 = 10
Green Melee on Oret's Pike Infantry: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (15) + 7 = 22
White Melee on Oret's Pike Infantry: 1d20 + 6 - 2 ⇒ (16) + 6 - 2 = 20

Combat 3 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.):
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13) Melee Attack remaining.
Nemesis's Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Blue Dretches (Damage: 18)
Blue Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (18) + 5 = 23 Assuming Lorian wishes to continue taunting.
Blue Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (12) + 7 = 19

With the Schir defeated, Lorian turned his attention to the remaining unit, not happy to share in the glory.

"Let us crush the Dretches! We have to aid our Allies and sweep the demons off the field. Lorian hollered as he taunted them.

Melee: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (15) + 11 = 26
Taunt, Aggressive, +2 mounted, -2 Glory hound. DV 15, OM +11, -2 to morale

The combined efforts of the Army of Exploration and the Mendevian Warpriests scatters the demonic forces! Only Oret's dwarven pikemen remain in jeopardy.

Stitched Horrors (Damage: 26)

Combat 2 (Dusk Battle: -1OM without Low-Light or Darkvision.):
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 22) Need a morale check to avoid routing. :(
Green Dretches (Damage: 14)
White Schir (Damage: 6)

Combat 3 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.):
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Nemesis's Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Blue Dretches (Damage: 25, Destroyed)

The Riftwardens continue to make preparations for an eventual assault on Silvershore by enemy forces while Kel stays up late reading reports of the other Pathfinder units, pleased with some of what he reads, worried for others on the field.

Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (20) + 3 = 23 Woo I guess!?

Oret's army keeps their heads up as much as they can.

I will likely not change tactic and aggression moving forward, GM may make rolls for me to speed things up. If I hit less than 12hp, I will attempt to retreat and keep bumping my DV up by becoming more defensive. Current DV=16, OM=6

As I calculate it, your infantry is at 5HP of 27. If you wish to withdraw, it will be an opposed Morale check against the two armies.

Yikes! For some reason I thought my hp was 47. Will bump up DV to 18 this round.

morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (12) + 3 = 15
morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (18) + 3 = 21

"Retreat! We're taking on too much damage."

Green Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (14) + 5 = 19
White Morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (17) + 3 = 20
White Melee: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (10) + 6 = 16

Oret manages to maneuver his wounded infantry away from the pursuing demon forces, camping for the night an uncomfortably short distance away. The day dawns with the onslaught continuing! The howler cavalry arrives to assail Silvershore, and the nightmare horrors march to reach striking distance. The schir reserves also move to pounce upon Silvershore or any other likely target. The dretch army pursues the fleeing infantry, attempting to prevent any respite being granted.

23 Howler Cavalry

22 Stitched Horrors (Damage: 26)
20 Red
18 Green (Damage: 14)
11 Lorian's AoE
10 Nemesis's Warpriests
7 Kel's Riftwardens
6 Oret's Pike Infantry
6 White (Damage: 6)

Oret may move into any adjacent space and choose to rest. Kel's Riftwardens have been pinned down, but Nemesis and Lorian have their movements to take.

Updated on map!

Jubilant in tasting victory, Nemesis's legion marches on the nearby schir horde for more....

The schir forces split off from pursuit of Oret's infantry to march on Silvershore, increasing the odds against Kel's Riftwardens. The dretch horde continues its chase, engaging the beleaguered dwarven army once more.

Combat 1:

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 0)
White Schir (Damage: 6)
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 0)

Combat 2:
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Red Schir (Damage: 0)

Combat 3:
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 17)
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)

Lorian can choose to move into a combat or rest in place to regain HP equal to the AoE's ACR. If everyone can give me their Profession Soldier checks to see how well you engage, I will roll the battlefield conditions.

Sorry all it looks like my last stand post was eaten (though I still had it up on another screen). Not sure why. I believe I made my morale check with a 16 on the die for a 19 total, then rolled a three for 16 total on the attack, used my gm reroll to get a 4 on the die for a 22 total, my attack die have been utter trash

It ended up in the discussion thread. I've added your damage in. :)

Seeking to revenge the Mastodon riders, Lorian lead the battered unit to finish them off.

"Let us revenge our fallen brothers! Charge!" was the command from Lorain as he saw the battered foe in front of the army.

Move to fight the Stitched horrors. Tactics Taunt, Standard attack ODV 19, OM +10 (Missed that Inspire courage also gave a +1 to OM) +2 for unmounted. Wow, that blows.
Melee: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (2) + 12 = 14
Soldier: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (13) + 5 = 18

The Army of Exploration's charge crashes into the sea of horror under broad daylight, with neither side seeming to gain the upper hand!

Combat 1:

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 0)
White Schir (Damage: 6)
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 0)

Combat 2:
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Red Schir (Damage: 0)

Combat 3:
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 17)
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)

Combat 4: Battlefield Conditions: 1d100 - 18 ⇒ (25) - 18 = 7 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Stitched Army (Damage: 26)
Stitched Army Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (15) + 5 = 20
Stitched Army Melee on Lorian's AoE: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (6) + 11 = 17

Bravo, sir. Not the play I expected! :)

Profession (Soldier): 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (4) + 4 = 8

standard melee, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (5) + 10 = 15

Kel takes a deep breath as he joins the Riftwardens, having them focus fire on the Schir army first, hoping to remove one threat at a time!

Tactic - Standard
Strategy - Standard

Ranged: 1d20 + 9 + 1 ⇒ (14) + 9 + 1 = 24 (Favored Enemy)
+ 1d4 ⇒ 1 extra damage vs extraplanar armies

Melee: 1d20 + 9 + 1 ⇒ (10) + 9 + 1 = 20 (Favored Enemy)
+ 1d4 ⇒ 1 extra damage vs extraplanar armies

DV 19

The Riftwardens repel the schir assault with such force that the demons break ranks and fall into chaos. The howler cavalry inflicts moderate damage, but the Riftwardens stand strong.

Combat 1: Battlefield Conditions: 1d100 ⇒ 34 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 8, Bleed)
White Schir (Damage: 22, Destroyed)
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 0)
White Melee on Kel's Riftwardens: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (9) + 6 = 15
Howler Melee on Kel's Riftwardens: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (20) + 7 = 27

Combat 2: Battlefield Conditions: 1d100 - 8 ⇒ (8) - 8 = 0 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Red Schir (Damage: 1)
Red Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (1) + 6 = 7

Combat 3: Battlefield Conditions: 1d100 ⇒ 9 (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 17)
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)

Combat 4: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Stitched Army (Damage: 26)

Oret has his melee phase, then round 2 will begin.

Oret and his army persevere to keep themselves together, but hope is dwindling.

melee: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (2) + 4 = 6

DV=18

Oret's infantry is bogged down by exhaustion, unable to fend off the tireless horde.

Combat 1: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 8, Bleed)
White Schir (Damage: 22, Destroyed)
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 0)

Combat 2: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Red Schir (Damage: 1)

Combat 3: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 20)
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)
Green Melee: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (14) + 7 = 21

Combat 4: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 13)
Stitched Army (Damage: 26)

Round 2 is up, everyone may attack.

standard melee, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (5) + 10 = 15

Lorian tried to the flank the Stitched Horrors but was having a hard time finding an opening to finish them off.

Lorian's tactics seem to be ineffective against the monstrous horror show attempting to rip apart the Army of Exploration. The unsettling horror of the enemy's misshapen forms begins to wear on the rank and file. Nemesis' Warpriests remain locked in a deadly struggle with the schir forces, neither army giving ground.

Combat 1: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 13, Bleed: 1d6 ⇒ 5) Melee attack needed.
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 0)

Combat 2: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Red Schir (Damage: 2)
Red Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (8) + 6 = 14

Combat 3: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 20) Melee attack needed.
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)

Combat 4: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 14) Morale check against Fear needed.
Stitched Army (Damage: 32, Immune to Taunt)
Stitched Horrors Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (13) + 5 = 18
Stitched Horrors Melee on Lorian's AoE: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (7) + 11 = 18

It ended up in the discussion thread. I've added your damage in. :)

Thank you, sir. My bad with the placement

Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (17) + 5 = 22
"We just fought a bunch of your allies yesterday and today we plan on adding your bodies to the funeral pyre for the Mammoth Riders!Lorian hollered as he regrouped the army for another pass at the Stitched Horrors.

If I can I will move another step from cautious to defensive. As well as attempt to change my tactic to taunt green.

morale: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6
melee: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 2 = 7

DV=20. Those rolls...

The pressure continues to pile on Oret's men. About all hope is lost. And Oret sweats nervously as he attempts to keep their guards high.

Kel is going to try and change the Riftwardens' tactics to pull away from the advancing cavalry, hoping to fire a ranged salvo at them without being struck themselves!

DC 15 Morale Check: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14

Unable to do this, the Riftwardens are forced into melee.

Melee: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (13) + 9 = 22 (+1 if these count as demons but I don't think they do)
+ 1d4 ⇒ 1 damage if these count as an extraplanar army

DV 19
HP 8 / 21

The howler cavalry summons fell power to smite the noble Riftwardens, dealing a grevious blow. Oret's infantry stands fast, but for how much longer?

Combat 1: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 19, Bleed) Morale check against routing needed.
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 5)
Howler Cavalry Melee on Kel's Riftwardens: 1d20 + 7 + 2 ⇒ (16) + 7 + 2 = 25

Combat 2: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 1)
Red Schir (Damage: 2)

Combat 3: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: 20)
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)
Green Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (19) + 5 = 24
Green Melee: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (11) + 7 = 18

Combat 4: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 14)
Stitched Army (Damage: 32, Immune to Taunt)
Stitched Army Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (12) + 5 = 17

Everyone is up again!

standard melee, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (4) + 10 = 14

"FOOLS! Put your gilded hearts into it!"

"Hold the line, Riftwardenss! We are the only thing between the enemy and the supply liness!" Kel will shout and try everything he can to keep the Riftwardens in the fight!

DC 15 Morale check to avoid Rout: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (17) + 3 = 20

DC 15 Morale check to change Strategy to Withdraw: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (1) + 3 = 4
Unable to pull the Riftwardens back to focus on ranged attacks, Kel can only hope that they can give better than they get...

Melee: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (19) + 9 = 28 (+1 if they count as demons)
+ 1d4 ⇒ 1 damage if these count as an extraplanar army

DV 19
HP 2 / 21

Oret's army is consistently unable to fend off the enemy.

Melee: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8 DV=20

"These abominations need to be swept off the field and sent back to where they came from! Show them no mercy!" Lorian said as he tried to find a break in their defenses.

melee: 1d20 + 16 ⇒ (2) + 16 = 18
ARGGG!!Tactics-Change to Reckless. DV 15

Kel's Riftwardens deal significant damage, but the barbed wounds of the howlers is too much for the mage force. As the unholy knights close in on the command center, Kel is teleported clear to join the Army of Exploration in their victory. The celebration is dampened by the reports of Oret's defeat, as well as disturbing reports from the north. The cultist forces of Tancred Desimire have completed their summoning, gating in a horde of rift drakes. While the winged beasts immediately set to feasting on their summoners, it is only a matter of time before they make their way south.

Combat 1: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)

Kel's Riftwardens (Damage: 25, Bleed: 1d6 ⇒ 6, Destroyed)
Howler Cavalry (Damage: 16)
Howler Cavalry Melee on Kel's Riftwardens: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11

Combat 2: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 4)
Red Schir (Damage: 2)
Red Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (15) + 6 = 21

Combat 3: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Oret's Pike Infantry (Damage: A lot, Destroyed)
Green Dretch (Damage: 14)
Green Morale: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (11) + 5 = 16
Green Melee: 1d20 + 7 - 2 ⇒ (20) + 7 - 2 = 25

Combat 4: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)
Lorian's AoE (Damage: 30)
Stitched Army (Damage: 39, Destroyed)
Stitched Army Melee on Lorian's AoE: 1d20 + 13 ⇒ (18) + 13 = 31

Nemesis just has to fight it out and hopefully stand tall. Then it will be up to the two remaining armies. The howler cavalry will impose a -1 to OV and DV as well as Morale rolls in future combats as the armies are cut off from supply lines.

Nemesis's army continues the fight, happily unaware (for the time being) of the darkness of the hour....

standard melee, spellcasting, mwk cold iron weapons: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (8) + 10 = 18

The warpriests of Mendev continue to chop at the persistent schir, neither side gaining much ground.

Combat 2: (Day Battle: No Adjustment.)

Nemesis' Warpriests (Damage: 4)
Red Schir (Damage: 4)
Red Melee on Nemesis' Warpriests: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (4) + 6 = 10

Feel free to roll a couple more attacks at a time to try and wrap this battle up. The only question left is who nickels and dimes the other out first.