MoF's Hells Rebels

Game Master MordredofFairy

Skills Spreadsheet | Party Loot
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Checked the sheet, I didn't take the racial feat option. I took the VMC for Cavalier taking the Order of the Tome. I specifically took the racial feat because I personally love fast learner. Unfortunately to me the monk favored class option isn't as good as the hp or skill point for Baelir so just taking an extra hp and skill point at every level is fantastic. You can also put me on callback as well.

I think I like how Baelir's build came out and his character would come to me as we play. He acts somewhat droll and as a drunk because that's what people expect of him. His mind is full of wonders and experience from reading contraband books, if only he could tell someone, he would finally have some more friends.

Grand Lodge

Is there a VMC for the Investigator?


Thanks for the spreadsheet!


@Corsario: You actually fit my definition for 'full buffer' because Inspire Courage is amazing. You also fit my definition for full ranged (having invested feats into it!). So I went ahead and bumped you up to full points on both of those. :)

@Baelir: Alrighty, updated!

@Raltus: Not that I know of, but I don't have any 3pp books involving it.

Now... to crash for work in 5 hours. :P


Hi Mordred!

I'm very excited for the chance to join this recruitment. Here is my proposal for a Strix Ranger, Gestalt Witch boon. I realize the Strix have the potential to break a campaign in the early levels due to their flight ability, so I intentionally hobbled Varuzhan with the wing-clipped trait. My goal was to build a character that was decidedly non-urban in origin but still belonged in Kintargo, and I felt like the strix race provided a good vehicle for that heritage.

All the details are in my alias profile, with some background, appearance, and personality integrated into the "10-minute background." I also took the liberty of tying my character background into Nissin Siverto, as I thought he gave a good hook for bringing Varuzhan into connection with other characters. While Varuzhan starts off as a rather isolated character, the point is for him to grow throughout the campaign and establish his roots with his allies in Kintargo.

I'm going to insert myself into Hotaru's character submission list, but he may know better than I how to properly classify this character. Would love any feedback on this submission.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks Hotaru. But... With her Demagogue archetype she don't get Inspire Courage until later levels.


Recruitment Spreadsheet

@Varuzhan: Your suggestions for what I'd give to each slot was spot on! :) Also, Herb witch is pretty darn cool. Lots of cleansing on a stick at low levels in exchange for a hex is really nice! I'm thinking of giving that a full rank in Enable, because that is ridiculously potent for the first several levels (when it comes up, of course) and then really nice to have even into the later levels (perhaps even moreso).

@Corsario: Ah, I just took a quick look at your crunch when opting for where things go, and your post included Inspire Courage in the special abilities section, and didn't catch the +0 bonuses listed. So while I felt like I was missing something (having also only glanced at Demagogue to make sure of what it did), I didn't catch the 'Replaces Inspire Courage +1' Fixt.


@Mordred: I've found out that RAW I can't take the Extra Hex feat with Alley Witch. It seems that since Alley Witch trades away the 1st lvl hex, an "extra" hex isn't possible since there is no hex for it to be extra to. Seems pedantic to me so I figured I'd check to see what you say.


Sorry I've not said much so far in the thread. Flu's had me on the ropes for a couple of days.

The spread sheet is great! With it in mind I figured I'd say a few things about what I have in mind for Nissim.

I haven't settled on a boon yet, and might not until after selection is over. That way I might be able to fill in a party gap if there's a glaring one. But, here are some possibilities:

1. Alchemist gestalt. Mind Chemist archetype. Nissim will be weak in hexes for a while, Giving up the 1st and 6th level hexes. An alchemist gestalt would really go a long way toward making Nissim useful from level 1. On the other hand, by later midlevels at the most, the alchemist stuff would probably be largely forgotten since I'll almost always have something better to do than throw bombs. I'll get a nice INT mutagen that will keep on giving it's love though, and a few extra spells and slots.

2. I could VMC sorcerer with the Rakshasa bloodline, and there are a couple of other possible ones. At the core, what I'm trying to do with Nissim is make him a great information and intelligence gatherer/enabler. Rakshasa is perfect for that.

3. There are a couple of wizard schools that would make good VMC's especially the possibilities in Divination, like Foresight and Scrying. These might be OP though, they're really just about too good.

4. I haven't rules out the race feats possibility yet, but they're not among my foremost choices at this time.

So yeah, I'm sacrificing some effectiveness in the buff/debuff area that a standard witch has for better abilities in information gathering, both for Nissim, and for helping others do it. He'll have decent social skills and some infiltration abilities as well. I'll be able to loan hexes to others so they can be used when Nissim isn't present. So I may make some hex choices that could be helpful to them like Disguise, Disrupt Connection, Peacebond, Ward, and so forth that I wouldn't normally choose if it looks like a good idea once we're into the AP.


Oh, and so to add to that regarding the spread sheet..

If a go with Alchemist I should be around a .5 for ranged combat I'd guess?

Nissim won't exactly be a skill monkey, but he will be good in certain areas, some of the knowledges, linguistics, social, stealth.

I can amp up healing or leave alone depending on what the party needs.

And yeah, this would be a great AP to run with an all bard party. Although I'd worry about later on when arcane, melee, and divine special abilities become more important. In any case it's not one that will allow a party to not be good generalists. Having "a face" and "a skill monkey" won't cut it.


Aye, tons of bards, few tieflings. Alas, most of the bards have very different touches to them. With that many quality bards, it's almost certain one may find a home here.
(Still, the other, non-picked bards may want to keep an eye on recruitment...a little bird whispered to me that someone MAY pick up on the all-bard-party idea...with alterations, certainly, but it would definitely be a great chance for all those not picked...)

Hi to the new submissions.
@Varuzhan: It's good thinking tying yourself to the fixed starter, but I would not encourage that right now lest Nissim get's flooded with PM's. One can definitely aim to have a connection with Nissim the Alley Witch, knowing he is in the city(as slotted char), but I'd suggest the details are worked out between people after they're picked...as said, there will be a couple days while I set everything up and final adjustments can be made.

@Raltus: Not raw, the hybrids are only covered in 3P...Jon mentioned those but I don't have access, so no possibility to gauge their power level compared to the others..

@Killerpixie: You took the Gestalt Boon option, and have one of your classes listed as Investigator. Hybrid Classes were, for reason of a few test builds I did, banned from that Boon option...Those first 3 levels would need to be non-hybrid on both sides, you are free to pick up Investigator afterwards, but right now it violates the creation guidelines.

@Nissim: I run into the same issue with an Arcanist of mine recently. Until then, it was always "clear" to me that I still had the class feature, even if an archetype replaced a specific level. E.g. Even if archetype replaces first level hex/exploit, the character would still have the hex/exploit class feature. I learned it is not so by RAW, but it is something that seems counterintuitive to me. ESPECIALLY since you could, by the level you gain the first non-replaced hex/exploit, simply re-train that level 1 Feat into Extra-something.
So yeah, if an archetype replaces a first level instance of a class ability, then the character is still considered to have the class ability on the grand scale of things, and as such, qualifies for the Extra Hex/Revelation/Exploit/etc - Feats. This is, of course, only applicable if it is a class feature gained at Level 1, and not all instances of it are traded away by the archetype.


dot, I hope I have time enough to come up with a suitable character :)


Jereru wrote:
dot, I hope I have time enough to come up with a suitable character :)

Still over a week. With all the quality submissions already made, I will probably start the 48-hour countdown on monday 28th, then close recruitment on wednesday the 30th.

I would definitely have a hard time picking out a team, already, but I stated in Opening Post how long I would keep the recruitment open, and of course, will stick to that.


I have a backstory of sorts done:

Spoiler:

Ruled by the Shifting Lady of Ebon Scales, an umbral dragon named Argrinyxia, Shadow Absalom is nothing if not a hotbed of intrigue. A twisted reflection of Absalom, even with less than ten percent of the original's population, it is the largest city on the plane of shadow. Arim doesn't know if he was adopted, abducted, or born to someone who was already a member, but he was trained from a very early age by a secretive organization in the western part of the city. He and his ersatz brothers and sisters were trained in various methods of infiltration via stealth or subterfuge, and combat with a variety of different weapons, of which Arim favored a sword with a wickedly sharp blade and shallow curve. The "family" made it's money by hiring out their services to others involved in intrigues.

It was an exciting life, but also an extremely nervous and lonely one. The Family had no compunctions about hiring out its members to opposing parties, so one could not even trust one's own "siblings". Usually, they were able to work around one another, but sometimes it came to blows...or worse. On his last assignment, he was opposed by a "sister" on her first assignment. Things went sideways fast, and he found himself fighting her near the peak of a penumbral Skyreach. During the fight she slipped, and Arim made the split-second decision to catch her. Faced with the choice of either dropping her to her death and continuing his assignment, or sparing her and failing, he pulled her up and fled into the gloom.

The consequences for failure tended to run on the fatal side of things, so Arim simply left the city. Unable to return home, he only had what possessions he carried, which were his sword and a blowgun. Trading the poison he had been supposed to administer via the blowgun for some coinage in the market, he bought some supplies before beginning his trek. Being a city boy, Arim had no idea where he was going and he failed to buy anywhere near enough food and water, running out after only a few days. Lost and delirious from lack of food and water, what happened next is a jumble in his mind. For some reason, he's positive that there was a dragon, but the fact that he is alive and free, means there probably wasn't one. He remembers waking up though, fully refreshed and on the material plane with no idea how he got there. Not hungry or thirsty, he got up and climbed the nearest hill and beheld the greatest sight he had ever seen: the Silver City. It was huge, and beautiful, and he instantly fell in love with it's soaring towers.

Arim has lived in Kintargo for nearly two years now, and still loves the city. While most non-Chelish take issue with the institution of slavery, Fetchlings were considered merely chattel on his home plane, so it seems pretty standard to Arim. He has managed to eke out a living as a thief-taker, turning his old skills to new purpose. Recent events have put a crimp on his livelihood, however. The declaration of martial law has made his job much more difficult, and the edict banning personal weapons has increased the danger as well. After all, a criminal tends to ignore laws anyway and will be armed in spite of the prohibition while law-abiding citizens, which Arim is, are legally handicapped in defending themselves. Arim is finally going to one of these protests, to hopefully raise this point. He doesn't want anything radical like independence or even for the soldiers to leave, he just wants the ability to do his job unhindered.

And with that, I think the character is totally done. Is anything with the character wrong or need to change?

Grand Lodge

I was kinda of hoping to go Investigator instead of bard because it fits the idea of the character more but the bard abilities do work as well.


Raltus=Killer Pixie?
(Sorry, hard to keep track of all people so i usually go by the alias the char is under)
If so, you could also reconsider the Gestalt part...while the weapon master, by raw, has the ability scale up in quite a powerful way, the Fighter VMC would not block out Investigator as base class, and also provide Weapon Training AND Armor Training.

@Arim, and other submission: Will take a more in-depth look on all applicants so far over the next 3 days. If I find something wrong or needing to be changed, I'll let you know.


Nope, Raltus is the person who asked about VMC Investigator being a thing. :)


I better make sure to finish up then : )


Made my secondary character. @MordedofFairy, my base account is ElegantlyWasted, first submission was Lorik Aulamaxa.

This guy has his crunch, ten minute background and background all done.
The idea behind him is to go battlefield control and buffing with arcane magic and healing and buffing/debuffing with divine. I'm figuring three Gestalt levels of Wizard/Cleric and then going Mystic Theurge. I'll miss out on some class features but I like advancing spellcasting as both. As far as fitting in with teams, basically he's there to make others shine. He's never going to pump out tons of damage but will summon monsters and lock down enemy movement while making sure his team stays healthy and free of negative conditions.
Socially, he's there to build a community. If people are having trouble working together, he'll be there, and if someone's moral compass ever starts wavering, well, he'll be there.

Grand Lodge

Raltus = Kelris Bartell the Human Pole Arm Master Fighter.


I'll submit this guy or one of the other two below:

http://paizo.com/people/ElegiaSerys

http://paizo.com/people/MajashKyVenthe

I haven't adapted them yet. I'm happy to do so if put into consideration, but I would prefer to know that one of the three is worth considering before I put in the time to adapt to the rules. I'm submitting more based on the character concept and background before carving out time in the day to go into more depth. If you're interested I'm happy to take the time in one of them. Thanks!


Given the option of gestalt for three levels, this may be a great opportunity to try a mystic thurge. I will work something up and submit it this weekend.


Alright... I'll get to work so Valeria takes the racial feats options instead of the fighter gestalt.


Okay, I'm taking the racial feats boon and I'll probably multiclass into fighter later. It's done!


@Mordred and Nissim -- thanks for the comments. Totally agree that any relationship between the characters needs to be worked out. Please just consider what I've noted as a placeholder idea. The similar backgrounds of both as apothecary/herbalists offer a lot of opportunity for common interest, or common rivalry!

@Hotaru -- thanks for managing the recruitment spreadsheet and for looking over my character. I like the flavor of the Herb Witch a lot. It offers a type of healing that's very different from simply praying to the gods for their favor.


Varuzhan wrote:
@Mordred and Nissim -- thanks for the comments. Totally agree that any relationship between the characters needs to be worked out. Please just consider what I've noted as a placeholder idea. The similar backgrounds of both as apothecary/herbalists offer a lot of opportunity for common interest, or common rivalry!

You raise a good point here. Perhaps folks with characters in consideration might want to take a moment to look at other characters and consider what relationship, if any, they have with them. While it's early to firm things up, having at least a vague start to work from would speed things up once the character selection is finalized.


I'm actually not doing that much at all. I entered a few things, and glanced at crunch. I haven't at all looked at fluff, though (I like my character knowing what I know :)). Many people have started adding themselves to it and making adjustments.

I put links at the end of a single person's section with alternate links to other characters if they're apping with multiple. I'll wait until the DM says he's interested in multiple apps from one person (or someone correcting me for having not noticed!), before doing the extra bits of work.


I just didn't really realize how many skill characters there were so decided I'd submit something different. I do like the idea of going Mystic Theurge (thanks Juliette for the idea!)


Well, I am not "forbidding" multiple entries. If someone has a different idea and wants to flesh out the character, I won't force them to choose between the two or more ideas they came up with.
I will say, though, that in most cases the extra time spent would probably be best used improving one's submission, refining the background, adding more plot hooks and further establishing the chars personality, and considering future progression choices.

There's people who can do that, and make 2 or 3 quality submissions, I've seen it in other recruitments. Just saying most people would be best advised to focus on the submission they already have ready and working a little more on those.(Also, reading a bit of additional character lore is a lot less "demanding" in terms of how much time it takes me to read it versus making sure another characters crunch is done correctly - so makes my job easier too, since I can focus more on the characters-)

Also, I got a surprise work order(yay job) where I'll have to travel to another city from tomorrow to the day after, by car, and have plenty workload there. I'll still try and do preliminary reviews of what's there for my private spreadsheet, and provide some feedback when done. But it may be delayed for a day, until Wednesday(well, that's the target date I'll aim for now) - just saying.


This is Fighting Chicken's submission, Aldous Beauturne, a fourth-year barrister specializing in contract law. On the sly, Aldous has also been investigating the teachings of an old tome, The Untethered, which provides the keys to manipulating the building blocks of reality through the use of a primal language (the linguistics skill).

As Aldous began learning the Untethering, the ability to manipulate reality spurred in the young man a hunger for better understanding it. This in turn led to many visits to Crissali's Fine Tomes, a bookstore that holds many works of history, political science, religion, and related writings considered worthy of the Order of the Wrack's "cleansing pyres." Consuming these works over the last several years, the nascent beating heart of a revolutionary stirs in the barrister.

Mechanically, Aldous is an incanter VMC sorcerer. I've kept the build pretty simple, but created a new casting tradition to differentiate "The Untethering" from more common types of magic. It is described in the profile, both in the crunch section and in the 10 minute background. I've got a suggested drawback in the crunch that I think fits the character, but it is only suggested. Aldous will work as a blaster and healer, with minors in buffing and debuffing (though the blaster aspect won't really kick in until level 2, he can do some decent close-ranged DPS at level 1). Aldous is also good with knowledges, and with the orator feat, has in the right social situation (telling falsehoods, improving attitudes, and forcing cooperation) excellent skill modifiers. He's an awful melee fighter and scout, and should not ever, ever, be counted on for those roles.

I've still got a little work to do - equipment to buy, a trait to choose, and I'd like to get a little preamble written about the days before the protest. I'll update the alias as these get done and notify you here, but I wanted to get something in before we get much later in the recruitment process.

Thank you for the consideration!


MordredofFairy wrote:
Still over a week. With all the quality submissions already made, I will probably start the 48-hour countdown on monday 28th, ...

Glad to see this is still open.

@ MordredofFairy:
Hmmm... an idea is percolating in my mind. So let me ask you a couple questions about builds:

1. If we are taking a gestalt class for 3 levels, do the 3 levels have to have the same Gestalt class? Or could you do 2 of one class and 1 of another?

2. How do you feel about applying weapon finesse to a quarterstaff, or an Unchained Rogue that uses a quarterstaff? Strictly speaking a quarterstaff does not qualify for the Rogue's Finesse Training as it is a two-handed weapon, but I figure mechanically counting the two ends of a quarterstaff as light weapons isn't mechanically any better than a rogue with two shortswords - as long as you don't try to use it as a two-handed weapon that gives 1.5 x DEX damage which would obviously be offside.

3. I am trying to figure out a way for my character to gain an animal companion or familiar as an oracle of a mystery that does not grant one. The companion I have in mind is an albino (i.e. silver) raven. I don't expect to be delivering touch spells or using it as a combat buddy (except maybe to provide flank once in a while) - I am more interested in it as a messenger and as a symbol. I was considering the Falconer Ranger archetype but this would be as a gestalt class meaning that the companion would never advance. Would you allow a revelation to be spent to give me such a companion?


@Peet:
1.: Technically I did not forbid the "main side" from being different classes. The intent behind "locking" the choosen 3-level dip into one class was to prevent gamey builds just choice-picking things(e.g. 2 levels for divine grace, 1 level for trapfinding; or 1 level for Monk AC bonus, 1 Level for Favored Enemy, 1 Level for Casting Class spell completion capability). So within the build rules, I left the loophole open by not banning progression in the boon class, making it possible to use it as "main", but I'll say the intent was to stick with one class. Exceptional ideas may get a pass on swapping up classes, but I'd prefer sticking to them.

2.: The "bonus" of double weapons is that you can theoretically swap between using them for two-weapon fighting, or wield them two-handed-for example when needing to move and only getting a single attack.
If you are willing to base your combat style on a school that is, for all intents and purposes, unable to effectively use it as a two-handed weapon(meaning no class features including finesse training would apply if wielded so - you could still wield it one-handed, only two-handed wielding is penalized), then I see no issue. While there's stuff like the staff mastery feats that distinguishes it from simply wielding two shortswords, that's no reason to forbid it.

3.: Do consider the necessity. If you are not using it to deliver spells or in combat, regulary, then it may not be necessary to advance it beyond 3 or so levels.
Flanking may be hard since a raven is not large enough to threaten surrounding squares(0 reach means he actually has to enter the square to attack, provoking an AoO by doing so).
So if you want it mainly as a symbol and a messenger, we can as well come to a gentleman's agreement that it will not be targetted unless drawing attention to itself in a way that demands so.
Another option, of course, is to go with Iron Will to pick up Familiar Bond. A human could do so from the start.
You'd lose out on the stuff you don't need anyway, and it scales automatically, without needing to pick up specific classes or giving up class features(and a good will save never hurts in a campaign with outsiders...)


Well

I ended up not being able to provide a good submission and reworking the character I had in mind for the game will take a lost more effort than I initially thought.

For that, I’m dropping out.

Best luck for you all, and have lots of funs!


@aku, sorry to hear so, but thanks for letting us know. Best of luck with your other games.


Hi, hello. Just one question:

MordredofFairy wrote:
Pick another class at Character Creation. For the first three levels, you will Gestalt with this class. Hybrid Base classes are not available for this option

Does that mean I can't pick a hybrid class to gestalt to for 3 levels, or that I can't pick the gestalt option if I already picked a hybrid class for main?


@Jereru: both. Due to some test builds I had done, I have decided that for the gestalt variant, both sides have to be non-hybrid classes.
I found a few combinations that I definitely do not want in the game, or that add in power in a way that invalidates other choices. Thats not to say such powercreep does not exist with the other options, but with Gestalt, I found it was predominantly existant with several hybrid options(specifically arcanist, bloodrager, investigator, and slayer...not saying the others are better but I have not found as many system exploits). Therefore, it was easier to prohibit the option in the first place, rather than people trying to be smart and make optimized characters that I will not pick courtesy of above reasoning.

See it as a positive thing: I'm saving people the trouble of going down that path, then ignoring their submission because it's not the kind of crunch I'm looking for.(the character personality/concept is what gets one picked. the crunch is what makes one not get picked...because the group should be close to equals, so extremely min-maxed or suboptimized chars would not fit in well)


No problem with that. The concept I had already in mind (a justice-seeking son of an old city guard who was executed by the devilish authorities of Kintargo), I was just fitting the crunch to it (99% it'll be a swashbuckler, though gunslinger could also fit).

The "My father gave his life for the city and that's how he got paid!" and "My name is... you know what comes next" things are calling me :)


Swashbuckler could be fun in this AP, possibly as fun as Vigilante, but not as fun as bard.

Looking like we keep getting more people, going to be hard for the GM to pick the remaining slots I imagine.


Edit: I just went ahead and assigned players specific colors if they had multiple characters to make them easier to spot. /Edit

@Shai and alts: I can't seem to figure out what your summoner is supposed to do, as he's a synthesist without the summon in your crunch. Also, if I'm not incorrect, a glance at your stats shows that you built for 20 point buy, and then took racial abilities that aren't available (from the d100 lists). I gave them preliminary stats and such until you've finished converting them.

@Aldous: I don't understand sphere-casting so I can't realistically give you a set of 'scores', but you're on the sheet, now. :)

@Peet: I might have something, but I'll PM Mordred about it first, cause it's cheesy and I'm not sure about letting my players do it :P

@Mordred: I haven't completed all of the stuff for Lily (my last few days have been pretty full as well, given that they're my first days off in a few weeks), but wanted to check: Rogue VMC grants Sneak Attack at specific levels. This means that it qualifies a character for something like Arcane Trickster (one of my alternate character concepts), but the VMC continues to give more Sneak attack (up to 4d6). This means that you'd wind up with 10 levels of an arcane class, 10 levels of arcane trickster, and 9d6 Sneak Attack Dice. Is this working as intended for you? (Also, in this specific instance, I'm not sure whether you would get the SA dice at 6/10 or 6/11, if you got the second dice at 11 does that still qualify you to enter arcane trickster at level 11?)

@Juliette: Swashbuckler is another one of the many things I'd like to see in the campaign. There are plenty of character hooks (the Thrashing Badger especially), and some stuff that comes up pretty early in the campaign. Lots of ways to tie in a swashbuckler!


Thanks, Hotaru - much appreciated. I'll edit the sheet if it is possible to do so. I've got descriptions of Aldous' abilities under "Casting" on the character sheet if you're so inclined to modify anything.

Essentially, SoP downpowers casting in exchange for more staying power, and more importantly from my perspective, breaks casting up into "spheres" which can also be thought of as themes. No more creating a TK mage and then spending spell slots on unrelated spells just to fill them up, for example.

Aldous can do the following at will:

- Give someone 1 temporary hp that lasts one hour, not exceeding their maximum hp (so, only on wounded characters).
- Close range touch attack for 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
- Touch an ally to give him/her 1 extra attack a round. Must maintain concentration to do so (a move action for Aldous).
- Touch an enemy to stagger him/her (Will negates). Must maintain concentration to do so.
- Teleport himself and a heavy load anywhere in close range.

Aldous can do any combination of the below a total of 8/day:

- cure an ally of 1d8 + caster level hp.
- remove some conditions.
- increase ranged attack damage to 2d6.
- stagger enemy or give ally extra attack for 1 round per caster level.
- teleport himself to medium range or teleport another creature within short range.

The downside is that especially at higher level, casters don't attain god-like effects (no wish, gate, clone, etc.). It is an elegant and fun system, and has totally replaced the magic system in the game I run. I highly recommend it.


It's a little hard to gauge... but Aldous seems to be more capable (at least for now) than many of the people I gave a full rank in Control/Enable. He's definitely a fully capable healer, and has a decent ranged capability. He's also got an excellent intelligence mod, and feats to be more skilled, so it's hard not to give him a full skilled point as well. The fact that he has to choose between many of the options makes it hard to quantify him, as he has so many different options at any given time.

I'll leave them as you listed them (other than me moving you to a full rank in skilled) since you likely know better than I do how the system you often play with will work out. :)

Sheet relinked here for ease of access (especially to me.)


He's capable, but there's a lot of built-in limitations too, so there will be situations where he'll not be able to use a good option. For example, both the extra attack buff and stagger debuff are touch attacks. He's not going to often wade into melee to deliver that debuff, and allies would have to be near him for him to use that option. So I think at least in the near term, if he's selected for the game the control/enable portion of the class will come up a lot less than I'd like, simply because he's too squishy to get anywhere near swinging weapons (AC 12, 8 hp ftw). Thus the 0.5.

I've baked additional limitations into his casting tradition as well, which will on the whole make him ineffective at those 8/day actions about 15% - 20% of the time, upon a failed linguistics check (depending on what his final int mod ends up to be - I'm toying with lowering his int score). So his whole "per day" powers are about 1/5 less valuable than they appear, basically.

I agree that the skill mods and ranks are good enough to bump up to a 1 - thank you!


Aldous Beauturne wrote:
For example, both the extra attack buff and stagger debuff are touch attacks. He's not going to often wade into melee to deliver that debuff, and allies would have to be near him for him to use that option. So I think at least in the near term, if he's selected for the game the control/enable portion of the class will come up a lot less than I'd like, simply because he's too squishy to get anywhere near swinging weapons (AC 12, 8 hp ftw). Thus the 0.5.

You're assuming that the party wouldn't have a ranged specialist like Juliette. As an Archer, if Juliette is in the thick of melee, she's doing it wrong, it would be quite easy for an archer to benefit from Aldous' buff.


Or a bomb thrower if Nissim goes that route. And I do like the thought of Molotov Cocktails in the streets :)


Nissim Siverto wrote:
Or a bomb thrower if Nissim goes that route. And I do like the thought of Molotov Cocktails in the streets :)

Right, the fact of the matter is how effective an enabler is depends at least partly upon their party composition.


Hotaru of the Society wrote:

@Shai and alts: I can't seem to figure out what your summoner is supposed to do, as he's a synthesist without the summon in your crunch. Also, if I'm not incorrect, a glance at your stats shows that you built for 20 point buy, and then took racial abilities that aren't available (from the d100 lists). I gave them preliminary stats and such until you've finished converting them.

Good point on the crunch with the summon! I forgot to add that. You're right on the 20 point buy. I was hoping to get an idea of what you would prefer to see played, because honestly I'd be just as committed and interested in playing any of the three. I just didn't want to do the full conversion until I knew which one to use. I know it's odd to ask for you to pick, but I've always felt that it's just as important for a DM to enjoy the characters as much as the players.

As for the racials, it's very possible that it's a Hero Lab fault. I did take some alternate racial abilities, and they may be third party content (I don't often screen for that when I build characters, just try to find what best fits concept). Regardless, I've not played a summoner before and I'm quite unfamiliar with their mechanics. I'd be happy to pull him from the list and submit either Majash or Elegia for you to see which might sound more fun? Links below for ease of review:
Majash
Elegia


Aldous Beauturne wrote:
For example, both the extra attack buff and stagger debuff are touch attacks. He's not going to often wade into melee to deliver that debuff...

If it comes up that the party has to restrain someone in a fight that they can't simply kill, I'll wager that touch debuff becomes a lot more useful when Aldous climbs into the grapple to grab an arm or leg.


@Peet: I gave some thought to what Hotaru brought up. I'm not sure if it truly fits what you are going for, but companion figurine feat could also set you up on the familiar thing.

@Hotaru: Firstly, yes, the sneak damage from VMC would qualify you for Prestige Classes including Arcane Trickster. Note that there's also Accomplished Sneak Attacker if you need earlier entry.
As for them stacking, I suppose technically I could try and see them as two different progressions (courtesy of the VMC wording: Sneak Attack: At 7th level, she gains the sneak attack class feature. She can deal 1d6 points of extra damage. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every 4 levels beyond 7th, to a maximum of 4d6 at 19th level. actually granting it as a class feature that scales at a fixed rate). I'll have to consider some more...honestly, it would probably depend on how you intend to play the arcane trickster. If you aim for the extra sneak attack because of abysmal bab, hoping to make the hits count, I'd be inclined to allow them to stack. If the intend is to use (self)-buffs to turn into a death-dealing divine ninja I'd be reluctant to let them stack. If you are willing to be flexible about this, we can also revisit the subject in the future in case you are picked.

@Spheres of Power: It's a system that flattens the power curve somewhat. Using an example from another game: You can have a Level 1 Spherecaster slinging half a dozen fireballs with 10-feet radius doing 2d6 damage each and making the targets catch on fire for 1d6 more damage per round if they fail a save. So to say it bluntly, at early levels Spherecasters can seem utterly overpowered - but their per-level-increase in power is a lot less impressive than that of, say, a wizard. Regardless, only few options would need to be discussed before game start(because, for example, early access to whole-group unseen teleport at Level 1 or 2 can break a lot of challenges).

@Shai: If you do want, I'll take a look at them(would have anyway until wednesday), but I can already tell you that I have plenty bards to pick from, so purely based on wanting to have more "choice" with the martials, I'd suggest you go with Majash over Elegia. I have not taken a close look on them yet, but at first glance I saw the Abyssal Bloodline: I know there's a few build shenanigans utilizing the size increase provided...I would not recommend basing your build on that.(If it feels "gamey" and abusive, chances are low to get picked - I already had a short pm talk about that with someone else, so it's only fair to let you know, too)

@Ranged specialist: Almost certainly, someone will be good at ranged combat. With a 5-person party it's definitely an angle one wants covered.


Zartana will be ranged. Going for arcane archer =^^=


The feat definitely takes care of any questions I might have had regarding when entry was possible. I haven't even really thought of a build for it. I'm just mentally pulling levers and seeing what shakes out. :)

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