Masters of Golarion II

Game Master fnord72

Per the information on advanced and monstrous races, the drow noble would be a +3 CR race.

Regarding bladebound magus and blade adept arcanist. The simple answer would be no. This is no different than asking if the spell progression from an arcanist would stack with a multiclassed wizard. Each is a specific ability of the class. There is no indication in either class that any stacking can occur. There is very strong language restricting a familiar, from any source. Since the blade is intelligent, and has abiltiies comparable to a familiar in power, it would be arguable that one could not have a bound blade from arcanist and magus.

Regarding Loremaster and Mystic Theurge. I think you're asking if you could use Loremaster (or any other PrC that advances spellcasting) to advance both classes from MT. The simple answer is no. The complicated answer is that MT is not itself a spell-casting class, therefore it would not qualify as it does not grant spellcasting by itself.

Epic level progression is as noted in Character advancement on d20pfsrd. PrC's are limited as is. You may select another PrC or continue progression of the original class.

As for long lived, perfectly acceptable. The dragon certainly has a few centuries under her belt. Validk isn't centuries old biologically, but he's skipped through time through a Mcgruffin of an altered time rate demiplane. He originates from the time of Aroden, and helped build Absalom. He then got stuck in a demiplane for a couple centuries. Since then, he has a tendency to skip a few years here and there if things on Golarion are particularly boring. Wayland is the young pup of the group, and Validk likes to tease him about it.

I see what your saying about the Drow Noble, I am a big fan of putting races in to classes and role they would normally be against.

The issue of possibly not being able to have 2 bound blades was actually part of the reason I asked if they stack... And that would have been my next question, thanks.

The one question you didn't address was whether you can advance prestige classes past 10 using those same guidelines (I remember the 3.x epic manual said something about that but I don't have time to go digging for it right now)

PrC's are limited as is. You may select another PrC or continue progression of the original, or another, class.

The rules under intelligent items also discuss that even when they have similar alignments and goals, two intelligent items don't like being with the same person.

Also that you gain a negative level if your alignments don't match. That's why I decided not to pick up a Shield of the Mage.

Can't the Blade Adept make his Black Blade scale on Caster Level? That is a tad easier to boost : )!

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I've been thinking about a name for the Order - is there any synonym with veil/weave/fabric that isn't in use already and doesn't sound too corny ?

Here's a few that come to mind...

Order of the Crotchet
The Darn Order
The Shrouded Order
Cloak and Lace
The Laced Guild
Weave Wrappers United (WeWUn)
The Order of Knots

:)

I feel like you went with the letter rather then the spirit of my request :P

How about The Order of the Web?
The Order of the Concealed Ties?
The Order of the Cords?

Can't the Blade Adept make his Black Blade scale on Caster Level?

yeah- that was the plan for EK levels... and I was originally thinking kensai (not bladebound) for magus levels, and am now thinking that spell dancer might be cooler for a super elfy elf... i was mostly just curious about how bladebound would fit in with that.

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is there any synonym with veil/weave/fabric that isn't in use already and doesn't sound too corny ?

Shroud; Pall; cloak, mantle, curtain, screen...

For your first post...

Sorry this wasn't first (and that it took so long, it was a rough week at work).

1. We would like to see your viewpoint on how a character would successfully exist in Golarion at 15th level. With this kind of power a character is probably one of less than half a dozen in an entire country. We are not looking for how the specific character you may eventually build would have lived, but how 'a' character would fit into the world.
- I think the way a 15th level character would successfully exist in Golarion would vary enormously based on the character: an inquisitor or rogue might be completely unheard of; a fighter or barbarian could be a warlord ruling his own kingdom (either fighting to expand it or growing soft off the spoils), or a general or champion for someone more politically minded; a cleric or oracle would likely be either a high priest leading their god's followers or a prophet calling for reforms to individuals or the faith; a wizard might be their own sort of warlord or could be a hermit conducting increasingly esoteric arcane research in his isolated tower, growing ever further removed from the banality of mortal life...

2. We would also like your post to provide some of your history with RPGs in general.
- I think I pretty well answered this in my initial post, please feel free to ask follow up questions if you like.

3. From the viewpoint of a townsfolk, describe one of your favorite characters.
- "I thought I were a dead-man fer sure," the grizzled old farmer said lowering his now empty ale mug. "I was out on tha east field, half a mile from tha house a'least... tha's when I heard it- tha terr'ble beatin' a tha great wings. I was near tha treeline so I din't see nothin' til it flew right o'er me." Even now, all these years later, those gathered around the table could see fear creep into his eyes as he spoke. "Its head were bigger than a house. Its wings spannt tha whole field from north to south! An' its scales was like rubies. Tha worst part were it stoppt real sudden and landt right there in tha corn field. I damn near fillt m'britches on tha spot. I thought it smellt me an' stoppt fer a snack. Then I seen him; plain as day- a man no bigger than me with wings like a swan were flyin' there right in front a tha wyrm! He weren't scare't a bit neither, he were flyin' so ta look that beast right in his eyes!"

The old man pauses to make one last attempt at shaking free the last drops of ale in his mug. Several of the old timers seem so familiar with the story they hardly seem to notice the delay, several younger men, however, are enthralled and wait anxiously for him to continue. "They were there like that fer a while. Talkin' they were- gods only know 'bout what. Din't go that well though, I reckon, 'cause 'fore long they were fightin' through tha sky with fire an' blood rainin' down below. They fought an' fought, higher an' higher til tha red wyrm fell to tha dirt. Then that man he come down right to me... he were taller than me, turnt out, but only by a hand or two. He had hair like gold and bright blue eyes, an' he were tha best lookin' man I e'er seen by a longshot. You believe he sorry't himself to me? Said he wisht m'crops weren't been hurt with tha fight, and gave me a ruby big as m'fist. He save't me an' tha whole town that day then put a hand on that dead beast an' disappeart with it, without a word to nobody 'bout it."

Staring off into the distance he concludes, saying, "best damn man I ever seen."

Hmm...

diamondAce's suggestions are all very good - expanding the search to things that hold things together (and not just barriers as I thought of) - which is really good!

All the suggestions you made nate lange is nice too. The Pall thing is a really good analogy and seems like a good name - save for one fatal flaw. A "pall" in Swedish is the word for "stool", which would make it all look like the "Order of IKEA" in my eyes ^^

And I must thank you fnord for reminding me of the most important point, which I missed on the initial read trough. The name of the order must of course spell some silly acronym ^^

But I thank you all for your ideas - I think I can destill and combine them into something nice : )

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@Players - I'm thinking a bit more about my character - and once I nail down my race I can start drafting both crunch and backstory.

As of currently, I'm thinking elf. But, since two other of us newcomers are going to roll such pointy eared critters - and even play up the racial supremacy part - I just though I'd ask if you are okay with being drowned in elves?

The race isn't crucial to my ideas - so I could easily change if someone feels that they would grow bored with the happy elves saving the world gig : )

I'm not married to the elf idea at all... I thought of it because it seemed kind of unique to the group, but I have never have any shortage of ideas! I've actually been giving some serious thought to actually building a human fighter...

I am actually thinking of changing the race for my character.

Human fighter would certainly be something at this level. Though I'd think you'd definitely need Pin Down. It would be nice not playing the only human, too.

And DB, it's early enough to definitely swap out ideas and races.

And something like disruptive to prevent teleport shenanigans! I believe there is a magic weapon property (or perhaps a specific weapon) that stops teleportation on hit.

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@nate - Don't worry about your concept on my account. I was the one whom just wanted a long lived race and grabbed the first one that came along :P Besides, if we go down the elf route that could be fun too! : )

Lessah, I believe Phase Locking. Which upon retrospect is a very good ability.

Indeed! Pretty nifty against all those Greater Teleport abilities that hang around the higher levels (like almost every Outsider!).

Like I said, I really have no shortage of ideas. Honestly, I won't actually settle on a concept until the recruiters decide who they want to include (unless they insist otherwise as part of recruitment) because if I really develop a concept and don't get to play it I'd be terribly disappointed.

@nate I understand how that is.

So after much consideration I think I am leaning more towards my minotaur cavalier. He was raised by a dwarf and was shown the was of the Cavalier by him. He is cg, with strong tendencies to get himself into every possible situation that involves people needing help.

Hmh I'll think I'll stick with Elf as a race then =)

@diamondAce - You mentioned that Wayland 'slept' for periods of time. That would certainly allow my character and yours to have some previous history around the Worldwound a few decades/centuries ago. Do you have anything established about his work there that I can read trough and see if I can't interject and see if I can work in a meeting : )

It would also give me a frame to start and construct my history. Depending on how long ago this happened - my character could either be an newly initiated signifier coming face-to-face with a real hero or perhaps two equals slaying demons together.

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To scratch my character building itch without taking on the beast that is a 25th level I thought I'd start with a draft of a cohort. More specifically, I was thinking of a Legion Archon (Cr7/8HD) Swashbuckler1/Gunslinger(Bolt Ace)5/HellKnight3.

The Archon is a good basis for a winged angelic figure. It provides both Greater Teleport which is useful for a minion and Armour proficiency to get into the HellKnight PrC.

Swashbuckler gives Finesse and Parry plus adds Panache to the Grit pool. Some melee versatility is always nice !

The Bolt Ace provides Dex-to-Damage on crossbows, which I was planing on using as the cohorts main armament (don't have to get close to the scary CR30+ foes should it get stuck in combat).

Hell Knight ties in with the order. It gives Smite Chaos, something that could help the cohort actually hit anything should the need arise.

My main plan for this cohort would be to act as an courier between my character and the Order and carry out his will in his absence. Also providing some hands-on personal security.

Now - I have a few questions/judgement calls I'd like to ask about.

First - Bolt Ace. This is the crossbow archetype for Gunslingers. But they still retain Gunsmithing and Firearms Proficiency, which is a bit weird. Is it okay if I replace these with Exotic Proficiency (Repeating & Hand crossbow)?

Secondly - The Legion Archon has an ability called Flames of Faith. It creates weapons that remains as long as they are held (greatsword) or until it hits a foe (javelin) as a move action. Would it be okay for my cohort could use the ability to create crossbow bolts - say a magazine full (for a repeating crossbow!)?

Lastly - I have never understood the good outsiders aversion to hair. I'm going to assume it is okay if my cohort actually has some!

I don't remember putting prolonged sleep in Wayland's story. In fact, I kind of have him as the youngest here that stumbled upon this due to rage and devotion. I'd think that what he'd done at the Worldwound is a decade old at latest.

As for the Bolt Ace, I don't see why you couldn't retrain Gunsmithing and firearm proficiency. However, I don't think you can get the javelins from the Flames of Faith option, seeing as RAI, only the legion archon uses them.

As for Swashbuckler, you could just grab the Amateur Swashbuckler feat if you wanted Panache and one deed. But if you're looking at Finesse, a level in the class is better than the feat.

Hey everyone, I'm following along as all the ideas are put out. I haven't done much research as to the builds put forth. As for race, I play a gargantuan dragon who has change shape. She looks like whatever she feels like, including elf. It really doesn't matter to me what is chosen as long as it is what you want to play. We'll let you know if any changes are needed.

Oh - I'm sorry, I think I mixed him up with someone else then : ) A decade, not alot of time.

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The Flames of Faith were for my cohort - which would be an actual Legion Archon. I'd just I'd thought to ask if everyone was okay with it making other weapons then javelins or greatswords (like crossbow bolts).

The best part about the Swashbuckler is that the Panache pool stacks with the Grit pool. If a level 17th cohort is going to actually help some if needed - it is going the need the touch-attack Deed :P

Ah, misunderstood. Well, I'm really thinking the archon probably makes that for a reason. I'd say keep it as is.

No worries : )

And one strike against then.

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Now - I realized another thing. Which point by do you prefer cohorts to use, 25 like a PC or perhaps lower?

Also, do they get traits :)?

I'll have to get back to you on the cohort attributes.

Since my own cohort was a work in progress (he was just a speaking piece and not expected to be in any battles any time soon), I have a couple corrections to make to him. I also need to reverse engineer his attributes. I want to say that the cohorts used the heroic NPC array, but I need to check.

I'm with aceD, Flames of Faith should stay as is.

I believe there was an original ban on firearms, though, again, I'll have to go look. None of the current/past characters were inclined.

Making that determination will be necessary before we get to gunslinger.

My personal viewpoint on mounts/familiars/animal companions/cohorts/followers is:

If they are used for fluff, speaking pieces, or comic relief, I am inclined as both a player and a GM to leave them alone in combat.

If they are used as an extension of the player (the mount is carrying the PC into battle, the familiar does some scouting, the cohort reloads weapons, etc. Then said add-ons will have some risk from AoE's occasional specific targeting actions, but again, are less likely to be specifically targeted.

Companions that are actively used as additional tactical units, become fair game. And sometimes it is a lot easier and makes sense to take out the small fry first before tackling the BBG. If the cavalier routinely jumps off his mount to get flanking, or makes his mount attack in addition to himself, the familiar delivers touch spells to enemies, cohorts are attacking or buffing in battle, etc. Then they become valid targets in and out of combat.

This doesn't mean, as a GM, that I will be hunting them always hunting them first. It does mean they are more likely to be harmed than the fluff companion.

Okay : )

Bolt Ace is the Gunslinger Archetype that uses Crossbows instead of Firearms. So hopefully that won't be a problem!

Indeed - it is quite nice to hear your thoughts on the matter of helpers, and it seems as if they mirror my own at least closely. I realize and understand that if a helper is put in harms way, harm may befall it. That is why I was looking to make the somewhat combaty cohort have a ranged focus (stay away from that dangerous X!) and some empathises on the defensive stats (to not die to a stiff breeze). Hopefully it would pack enough usefulness to perhaps take out a mook or two should it come to that.

Edit: Another thing I've been thinking of is going a fully defensive route with the cohort. It would probably involve Sword & Shield fighting with a heap of those feats that prevent Moment. Very low damage output but a decent roadblock. Then it won't matter that much if the monsters want to take a bite out of it :)

Probably something along the lines of:

Archon 8/Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist) 5/ Paladin 2/ Hell knight 2

Are anyone thinking of rolling such a character already? Just so I don't steal anyones niche if I design the Cohort down that path instead : )

Could I actually get a little clarification on the expectations here? Early on it was stated that we shouldn't really be posting builds but it seems to be evolving (or devolving, depending on your PoV) into that... Have you decided which/how many of us will be joining you? Are you planning to use character concepts/stories as part of that decision? If the latter, how much detail do you want?

I have a ton of ideas, and would prefer not to settle on anything without being in conversation with everyone else that's playing about character capabilities and party needs (plus as I said before I don't want to get too attached to a character that I don't get to play). Here are some of the ideas that I'm thinking about the most right now...

Could I actually get a little clarification on the expectations here? Early on it was stated that we shouldn't really be posting builds but it seems to be evolving (or devolving, depending on your PoV) into that...

*Ahem* My fault, sorry. I just got a bit carried away by tinkering with numbers : )

We're looking at all three of you.

The pace so far is working well. Options are discussed, nobody is spending so much time on a build that when they find out it won't work, they get really upset.

We've had time to review your profiles, look at your other postings and writing samples. At any point, if we have serious reservations about your fitting in, we'll voice them. Probably by pm first.

What we really don't want is someone coming in with a build they made ages ago that has just one key component that won't fit the setting but makes Mr. Uber Dragon Slayer totally awesome.

Personally, I feel that if we develop how the character would fit into the world, many of the "can I have this special ability as an exception to the rules" questions won't even happen.

This pace is also giving me, as the first GM, an opportunity to know you and your desires for a good game better.

You may note that GMV is a single class (dragon).

Validk is one class and PrC.

Earlier we had one guy that made a cavalier type character with 3 class dips other than his main. He took down a spawn of rovagug in a round or two, with some assistance (it was over by the time my character got there). But was pretty much useless for anything that did not have plenty of room for a charge and frontal assault. The player ended up dropping when the next phase of the session was non-combat.

Point being, he was maximizing his build in a narrow focus that was awesome, but limited off the battlefield.

That's why I changed directions and decided I think I want to try my minotaur cavalier, but with that said my characters are pretty rounded.

Questions and comments on character options.

mystic font: sounds interesting. Mongrel reservoir and it's abilities would not be increased by MT. Is this going to break your idea? Mt only progresses the casting, not the bloodlines or bloodline spells. THe oracle would also be similarly affected by the limited class levels.

What's wrong with the elven curved blade? It sounds like what you are looking for. I went to good old google looking for your elven longblade. Best I could find was references to a fan made object for the dark sun setting, or possibly something from a dragon magazine. Unless you can provide a mainstream link the answer would be no, and it's likely to stay no as non-pathfinder anyway.

As for the third option, it sounds interesting, as an intellectual challenge. When he gets a magical summons, how is he travelling there? If he has a wizard cohort to play pony for him, why would a 17th level wizard be playing pony to anyone? They're already in the 1% crowd. Kind of like suggesting Donald Trump works for Warren Buffet. I think you will have more work with the background and plausibility with this one.

One thing that came as a very shocking surprise is long distance travel.

If you have never been there, even with epic characters it was hours/days to travel across the inner sea.

Unlike some other games in the history of d&d. You aren't likely to be traveling very far very fast.

In fact it's faster to get to Elysium or the shadow plane from Absalom than it is to get to Taldor from Absalom.

Yeah- I know MT doesn't advance Sorc or Oracle abilities. That build would be more about the spells.

The sword I was thinking of is actually called the Thinblade, and apparently isn't covered under OGL.... It was in the 3.x book Complete Warrior. It was also slightly better than I remembered, so I'll rescind the request. The reason he'd avoid the curve blade is that he'd have the broad study arcana which would allow him to use his arcanist spells with spell combat and spell strike (but would need a 1 hand weapon for that)

I hadn't really thought through all the logistics of having no magic yet... With all his feats I'd probably pick up an improved familiar who could use wands/scrolls for him.... That's one of those places where the MT would be way better off.

One of the reasons I decided to go with an Int based caster (Arcanist/Signifier) was their innate versatility and high amount of skill points. The cohort can afford to be a bit shallower in scope (easier to put together that way too^^).

@Travel: Both Gate-> random world -> Gate-> material plane and wish are kindof fast ways to travel. A bit resource intensive though : )

Very resource intensive. Just grab Summoner made magic item consumables. If you notice on Way, I picked up something to the tune of 45 scrolls of Greater Teleport.

As an Arcanist, casting Gate twice a day is something I could pull off (it doesn't cost money unless one calls a creature) : )

I'm also thinking of picking up the School Savant (Abjuration) as an archetype to really get in some of that barrier and banishment work. I think I'd put Necromancy as an opposed school, but not sure about the other yet. My last Wizard had Evocation & Enchantment banned, so I am not 100% percent sure I'd ban those again. Any particular school that has already been well covered?

I spent some coin on teleportation rings...

my idea for the theurge is not very optimized (no early entry, not taking lore/lunar/nature for Cha to AC, etc), but it does depend on a RAW acceptable combo that some people might not like... so before I put anymore thought into that I'd like to hear people's opinion on it.

he'd start mongrel mage sorc 4, then go wasting spellscar oracle 4. when he gains some control over his power (after those 8 levels) he'd take some levels of mystic theurge. he would always have been somewhat religious but after the whole primal magic thing, when his power started to consume him, he would have turned to Nethys hoping to learn more of his power and praying to gain control over it. at some point he'd start leveling as an Evangelist, that's where my concern comes in... he would apply the aligned class feature to MT... that's going to allow his effective MT level to pass 10... combined spell is specifically capped at 5th level spells and spell synthesis isn't level dependent so those won't be in any way effected, but "When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously." isn't capped at all, so he would be advancing spell casting for both classes...

the net effect here is that at 25th level he'd be sorcerer 4/oracle 4/mystic theurge 7/evangelist 10 which would allow him to cast as a level 20 Sorc and as a level 20 oracle. he wouldn't have any epic spellcasting (no lvl 10+ slots), unlike several other party members, and wouldn't have all the other goodies that sorcs and oracles get, but he would have a lot of spell slots and options for spells known... thoughts? I think the knee jerk reaction is likely to be that that's too much (it was for me), but please give some actual thought/consideration to it... being down 5 caster levels and not having any 10-12th level spell slots is kind of a big deal (enough, at least, that it makes me feel like this isn't abusive).

truthfully, i could build a more effective caster without this combo but I really like the idea of this human who has this power he can't fully handle but it gives him this really unusual ability (arcane and divine might)...

While I'm not sure how and if my vote counts but I'll give you my 2cp anyhow : )

I'm not sure how important those last five casterlevels of either class is, anyhow. Many spells have built in caps (almost any damage spell) anyhow - and if the 1/round spell lasts 20 or 25 rounds isn't that important. Matters a bit for Dispel I guess : )

Not having access to those shiny 10 and 11th level slots hurt alot. With them, one can use those sweet metamagics on 8th and 9th level spells (empowered Time Stop would be fun on a good roll! Persistent Wail of the Banshee too). Especially when mythic comes into play, for the Archmage and Heirophant abilities that lets one cast any spell one knows, being able to juice them up with metamagic is nice.

But that is the only real potential *abuse* that such a critter could do, that would be to pick up Dual Path and take both the Wild Arcana and the divine version. Having any spell on the cleric or wizard list in hand 5/day is really good. However - this is more an issue with mythic and those special abilities.

And if one really wanted to break that, one could simply pick any of the monsters that cast as Sorcerers but may pick spells from the Cleric list and advance their spellcasting with a PrC.

TL:DR - I wouldn't personally feel that such a character would be to overpowering, unless it went for the easily accessible way of removing all of its weaknesses : )

We have a tendency to apply RAI over the nitpicking that can easily occur in the semantic arguments of RAW.

I'm reviewing the discussions on Aligned Class application to PrC's. So far the RAI is that it would apply to a class (as in base or core) not a prestige class. But I'm holding reservations on that. One important distinction is that the original write-up for Evangelist clearly uses class and prestige class differently. This infers that the prestige class was designed for use with classes, not other PrC's.

The PrC has as it's prerequisite options casting 3rd level spells, it's interesting to note the class really seems designed to allow just about any person to continue to gain nearly all the benefits of their original class with extra on top.

Working out an effective (and not cheesy) obedience would be key. Which pretty much requires ownership of Inner Sea Gods since the material is not likely to be under the OGL. Fortunately, I do have this book, not sure about the others though.

Aligned class discussion
another aligned class discussion
yet another aligned class discussion
I did say I was doing a lot of reading on this
and this one

To make this doable, your character sheet would almost need to be doubled or otherwise HEAVILY annotated "I think the Obedience clause is pretty awkward; you need to maintain a "just in case" character sheet detailing what's left if you miss an obedience, and it raises a lot of questions about prerequisite chains." I agree, feats would need to be noted if they came from lost levels due to lack of obedience, ditto with spells, caster level checks, (evangelist doesn't give CL, so not giving obedience would drop the potency of all your spells cast for he day, what spells you had left to cast with).

The last link has a very pertinent line "There is no line on the table saying that level 11 in the PrC gives you +1 arcane/+1 divine spellcasting, so you might have to choose to advance either wizard or cleric from that point."

I think with that consideration (which would be RAW), that Evangilist would allow you to align class to MT, but having more than 3 levels in MT would be wasted. (Going MT 3 / Evangilist 7, then back to MT would also be a waste since there is no more table).

This based on the campaign rule that core/base classes can progress beyond their table, PrC's can't.

Another option is:

sorcerer 4 / oracle 4 / MT 10 / sorcerer 4 / oracle 3.

This gets you 9th level sorcerer and 8th level oracle (or vice versa).

I spent some coin on teleportation rings...

How much those run?

Another option to look at would be:

sorcerer 4 / oracle 4 / MT 1 / Evangelist 10 / Sorcerer 4 / oracle 2.

This gives 9th level sorcerer spells and 8th level oracle spells.

22500(permanency)+1000(spell cost)gp each and they are one-way only. Assuming he meant Teleportation Circles :)

Source

Can also do boots of teleportation for 49k gold

Teleportation Circle with permanency $22500. times 2 for a round trip.

It costs that for each leg.

Couple ways to make a network, either a chain or a hub.

Take your HQ, put a room in it with a bunch of permanent circles on the floor, each going to a different location.

That or each location has just two rings, then you have to potentially go through several gates to get close to you.

I'm using the hub approach.

Anyone else that wants to get in just needs to pay for their link and they can access the rest of the hub.

I seem to recall someone that never started had the idea of using a demiplane as a shipping hub. IIRC it got nixed as too world changing to already be in place. Putting one in place and gaming through the changes would be interesting though.

Mirror of Mental Prowess is pricey, but works very well from an established base of operations. It also contains some nifty utility and you get to utter the phrase "Mirror mirror on the wall ..." ^^

Please don't take this as argumentative, I certainly don't mean it that way. I'm more than willing to go with whatever the ruling is, but for the sake of thorough consideration: descriptive text always takes precedent over charts, the text I quoted in my previous post states that when you gain a level (or effective level) you gain +1 to both caster progressions... There's no cap or restrictions on that so, even though you'd gain nothing else, if you're effective level exceeds 10 that one thing would keep increasing. Now that is, admittedly, a very RAW-over-RAI argument but that is how I've always seen it (I think I actually participated in one of the threads you linked back when the class first came out).

Like I said, I'll gladly go with whatever the ruling is, that's why I brought up the question early (though I'll probably lean toward a different concept if this won't work). If I do use this guy my obedience would be to Nethys and I assumed we'd use the published requirements and boons.

No worries. I'm usually open to a good debate. So long as it remains respectful and the caveat that typed wording doesn't convey emotions well.

Keep in mind that we are discussing the balance of this request against the theme of the game, not simply the RAW or RAI.

Way back, a couple threads ago, we had a discussion on progression past 20th level for core/base and progression of PrC's.

IIRC there was no split viewpoint on PrC's. They would not progress beyond their determined level. This is based on the fact that there are many PrC's that are not 10 levels, there are 3 level PrC's. A PrC is to reflect a specific goal striven for, and accomplished. Most PrC's can't be entered prior to 6th level (a few are later than that), which means that there is an expectation that a character will start with a base class, enter a PrC, and then either start another PrC or continue with their original or another base class before hitting 20th level.

It was pretty clear that there were two schools on the base class idea, either force multi-classing or allow progression beyond 20th level. Since taking a PrC could effectively allow a class to increase abilities past 20th level (wizard 20/PrC 5) that we would allow the base classes to progress past 20th level.

MT has a pretty serious bonus, full progression in two full caster classes. The offset is a significant penalty in access to higher level spells. You are effectively trading out more, and broader, low level spells for a few high level spells.

On the classic progression (wizard/cleric) you would be wizard 3 / cleric 3 / MT 10. At 17th level you have 13th level casting in both classes, and by 20th level you could get 9th level spell casting in one of the classes, casting as wizard 17 / cleric 13. With another 5 levels to play with, you can increase one of those classes to epic casting, or get both of them up into 9th level spells. The balance is still the fewer higher level spells known, vs lots of lower level spells.

Let's consider if the request was just "can i progress MT beyond 10 levels." The character creation guide already has this answer.

Simply put, the request seems to be "can I progress MT beyond 10 levels by using another Prc?" I'm not sure why this would be deemed ok based on the character creation guideline for the campaign.

This question gets to the core of your concept.

Why would taking the Aligned class in sorcerer OR oracle break your build and make it unplayable?