OK, lets discuss the DIPLOMACY skill. I feel Alex is trying to use it well beyond what the skill covers. I am highlighting the specific parts.
Check: You can change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters with a successful check. The DC of this check depends on the creature's starting attitude toward you, adjusted by its Charisma modifier. If you succeed, the character's attitude toward you is improved by one step. For every 5 by which your check result exceeds the DC, the character's attitude toward you increases by one additional step. A creature's attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations. If you fail the check by 4 or less, the character's attitude toward you is unchanged. If you fail by 5 or more, the character's attitude toward you is decreased by one step.
In my opinion, this is what Alex is attempting to do but there are several factors that are working against you. First there is the fact that Diplomacy is generally not used in the heat of a battle, and generally not against those actively trying to harm you.
You cannot use Diplomacy against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence of 3 or less. Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future. Any attitude shift caused through Diplomacy generally lasts for 1d4 hours but can last much longer or shorter depending upon the situation (GM discretion).
Second is the time factor.
Action: Using Diplomacy to influence a creature's attitude takes 1 minute of continuous interaction. Making a request of a creature takes 1 or more rounds of interaction, depending upon the complexity of the request. Using Diplomacy to gather information takes 1d4 hours of work searching for rumors and informants.
These are things that the character would know, and I would hope that the players do as well. I will allow a Diplomacy check, after the full minute of interaction. You are 3 rounds in, but I want to make it clear the difficulty is quite high, especially considering that the PCs have responded to the threat with violence of their own.
Now, in the event that I am wrong about your intended reason for trying Diplomacy, I will address the other issue I see. If you are trying to make a request of a creature, that only works with creatures that are indifferent to you.
If a creature's attitude toward you is at least indifferent, you can make requests of the creature. This is an additional Diplomacy check, using the creature's current attitude to determine the base DC, with one of the following modifiers. Once a creature's attitude has shifted to helpful, the creature gives in to most requests without a check, unless the request is against its nature or puts it in serious peril. Some requests automatically fail if the request goes against the creature's values or its nature, subject to GM discretion.
At best these thugs are unfriendly to you (one is clearly hostile), so first you need to influence them to indifferent. There will be times that Diplomacy can be used "in combat" but I will try to make that clear, generally by having the enemies pause (delay), giving time to interact, maybe only one enemy, maybe the group. It depends on the situation.
Now I am willing to let you revise your actions before we continue, please let me know either way. I will wait to continue until you post yes or no.
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Short answer, I do not want to change my actions.
I was saying that my character is willing to make the diplomacy check. I am aware that it take time and it is outside the scope of this combat. At this moment ALEX is uncomfortable killing these people who are under this compulsion. The Div is using these people to get to her and the rest of the team and she feels bad. One dude is super dead. She feels real bad about that. We’ve fought undead creatures and outsiders and monsterous humanoids but these are the first people we fought. In my backstory when confronted by people I have either talked my way out of trouble or run away. I am keeping her within that spirit, it’s one of my favorite aspects of the character. She is a young girl who has never killed a person before, it takes time to mentally come to terms with that. Having her instantly try to kill people would seem out of place to me.
However, during the next round of combat, if all goes well, Alexandra will attack these people. This is her coming to understand that she can’t talk her way out of or run from every problem. It is an opportunity for character growth while also aligning with reasonable uses of my actions for that round.
Round one was my true attempt at talking them down. I knew it would fail, but I tried. Round two was me casting defense spells since I was caught unaware and surprised at the relentless attacks coming my way. I said to stop fighting again because I could do so as a non action. Again, I knew it would fail but Alex would try. There was no reason not to.
Round 3, the best thing I can do, diplomacy or not, is to try to get off the ground and move away from the two dudes rushing me. I also indicated that this man was under a spell effect which some of the less magically inclined people in the party might not know. Also, it is possible that some of the dudes don’t know that some of them are under a compulsion and I want to appear sincere.
Round 4 Is going to be try to acid ray to free Bambara if he is still stuck in the net or acid glob to the face of purple man if Bam is free.
I am glad that you clarified that you will make it clear if I can make a diplomacy check in combat. There are a few GMs who will not prompt a check and I was unsure if you were waiting for me to ask. This is good information to know. While I will still try to use my character’s toolbox to overcome problems, I will not ask if you want a check again.
Something odd has pricked my attention. The fleeing trapper just said "I give up. The gold she paid isn't worth this."
Now, I've always thought of Imanish as a HE, and I looked back to when we first ran into Imanish. The sand critter we killed referred to Imanish as "he."
Assuming that both of those quotes are accurate, this suggests things may be even more complicated than they appear. Or perhaps, Imanish, like Babs, is doing his/her part to subvert gender norms, roles, and presentations.
Chui's study of postmodern feminishm, the gift that keeps on giving.
Something odd has pricked my attention. The fleeing trapper just said "I give up. The gold she paid isn't worth this."
Now, I've always thought of Imanish as a HE, and I looked back to when we first ran into Imanish. The sand critter we killed referred to Imanish as "he."
Assuming that both of those quotes are accurate, this suggests things may be even more complicated than they appear. Or perhaps, Imanish, like Babs, is doing his/her part to subvert gender norms, roles, and presentations.
Chui's study of postmodern feminishm, the gift that keeps on giving.
While gender is kind of a blank slate in PF, and a Doru Div is just a head, most people seem to refer to it as HE. All statements are correct.
Thinking about my upcoming turn - Chui is currently holding his bow. Can he draw and use his wakizashi with one hand while he holds his bow in the other? Obviously, he couldn't shoot the bow until he drops or resheaths the wakizashi.
Thinking about my upcoming turn - Chui is currently holding his bow. Can he draw and use his wakizashi with one hand while he holds his bow in the other? Obviously, he couldn't shoot the bow until he drops or resheaths the wakizashi.
That is exactly what the purple thug is currently doing, so yeah.
Something has come up, will try to post tomorrow
Unable to move forward with game until maybe tonight
Unable to move forward with game until maybe tonight
OK man. Things happen. I hope everything is well overall. We will wait for you to return. Keep in touch.
I hope everythings ok. We are all realitively close to each other now so what is the plan moving forward? I am free of the net and would very much like to make red trapper brain jelly (i should be able to rage again on my next turn)
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I hope everythings ok. We are all realitively close to each other now so what is the plan moving forward? I am free of the net and would very much like to make red trapper brain jelly (i should be able to rage again on my next turn)
Sure. I'll try to come up with a new plan once Chui finishes his turn.
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That can be some serious stuff. If we wanted to wait once it gets back around to Pete’s turn, I am OK with that and we can wait for everyone to feel great and be back on their feet. However, if you want this game to be a distraction, I could understand that. It’s all up to you Pete. Keep in touch when you can. I know you will feel better soon.
I'm good with going forward. I've had to cancel my planned trip to GenCon since the doctor did not want me traveling, particularly by air, during the next month. So at least GenCon won't get in the way of our game here.
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New Plan according to Harmini:
1. Since she still can't see Chui, Harmini aided Bambara to get a solid charge attack vs Purple instead. Try not to miss :).
2. Chances are Chui's solo plan is to take out Brown Thug on his own with his next action.
3. Both Alex and Harmini should have enough AC/HP to handle 1 more round of a single attack from Red. From there, dealing with Red Trapper alone in melee should be easy enough for Bambara to make him cry for his momma.
4. Alex will be free to consider an offensive spell/ability vs Yellow Thug or Red Trapper next round.
5. Harmini's locked & loaded to take out Yellow Thug on her next action with her crossbow provided no one else is dying immediately.
6. Chui can pick up his shortbow and assist in ranged vs Yellow Thug if he likes as well.
7. Once we finish them all off, healing the group will be a snap for Harmini.
Chui may try to finish off Brown or drink a Potion of CLW. It depends on how things look when his turn comes around.
I dropped a little piece of text into Chui's square so we remember that's where his shortbow is located.
I was going to drop rage again but they took out my feline friend. I will make more jelly for you chui
Can i hit red guy from where im at or is the ruin in the way?
You will need to step out. The walls are between you.
Ok so 2 things ive noticed. 1 my accuracy isnt all that great so like chui im better if i have a flank buddie and at 5th im taking furrious focus
So i take it that alex isnt a flanking partner at the moment
Bambara may give Krunch a new nickname after this fight. Maybe call it pulper? What do you think?
Also at some point before we move on id like to give a guantlet from my scale mail to Alex. That way she is never unarmed. I can give one to harmini as well if she wants it.
Also i have manacles if we need them
Chui if you hold him ill knock im out so we can lock im up
Chui if you hold him ill knock im out so we can lock im up
Only if he escapes the grapple/pin, then Chui is going to expose his liver to the morning sun.
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In light of our renewed group effort to communicate better, I think we should discuss what we'd like to do next as a group. Chui presented several options in character so I'd like to give my (Harmini's) opinion as well.
Options:
1. (Harmini's first choice) We keep going toward the Sanctum of the Erudite Eye and investigate since that's what we set out to do before the ambush. Nothing has really changed that should deter us from that objective.
2. (Harmini's least favored option) We go back to town and rest. I feel like this option is largely counter productive to our goals. We're far from out of resources as a group (I'm sorry you chose to spend all your Ki points on the very first encounter, Chui but the rest of us are still good to go).
RP stuff:
Is it really Chui's (and Bam's) intention to murder a captive adversary in cold blood? Not sure where you're going with this otherwise...? I truly doubt "yellow thug" has any valuable information to share that Alex hasn't already figured out on her own. Harmini's satisfied with what Alex divulged to the group and she will simply suggest that you release him. If you choose to progress further down this murder-hobo rabbit-hole, that's on you guys... Just don't expect it to be consequence-free.
Bams intent is not to kill this poor sod but to restrain him and learn what we can then bring him to the guards as thats thr proper thing to do in human lands. Then move on i still have enough resources for the day 7 rds of rage +1 more in emergency
I think it's essential we deal with whoever tried to have us killed first. This is both my thought, and it would also be Chui's position. The Sanctuam isn't going anywhere. On the other hand, we have an enemy who may now know that his/her plot failed since one of the attackers escaped. That enemy could be, and probably is, planning new attacks or threats.
We need to get ourselves and the yellow thug toot sweet to the Voice guards and get our story about the ambush in with the authorities before our nameless enemy has a chance to get their story in. For all we know, we could find ourselves arrested upon our return from the Sanctum, accused of killing a bunch of innocent folks we encountered in the Necropolis.
The best defense is a good offense. We need to find out exactly who tried to kill us and take the initiative against this threat using whatever legal or extra-legal resources and approaches are most appropriate.
Chui could care less about the ki points. He isn't advocating going back to town and resting. He's advocating going back to town so as to quickly and aggressively deal with whoever hired the folks who tried to kill us. If we quickly neutralize the threat that we're facing and still have time to go to the Sanctum today, he will happily do so.
I (and Chui) would agree that Hypaxes and company is a likely culprit. However, we don't know this for certain. If we move against them, and they're not our enemy, we could find ourselves in conflict with the authorities, Hypaxes et al, and our unknown enemy.
In terms of the RP question, that's how Chui would talk. Please note that he's actually attempted nothing but grapple and pin checks against the thug who is trying to escape (because someone healed him before he had been restrained). If the thug breaks my pin and Bam can't grapple him, then Chui will attack with the lethal damage as a last resort in order to prevent him from escaping. That's not murderhoboing, that's common sense.
In terms of the RP question, that's how Chui would talk. Please note that he's actually attempted nothing but grapple and pin checks against the thug who is trying to escape (because someone healed him before he had been restrained). If the thug breaks my pin and Bam can't grapple him, then Chui will attack with the lethal damage as a last resort in order to prevent him from escaping. That's not murderhoboing, that's common sense.
It is true Chui has not taken any actions other than grapple and pin, but Chui's thoughts have been mostly in the line of torturing and eventually killing this guy. He has also voiced his desire to kill this guy. The intentions may not be to kill him, that is fine. Take this as a further warning then about alignment issues. If Chui kills this guy in cold blood there will be consequences. Combat has ended, he is unarmed and unarmed, and now he is bound, he is clearly your prisoner. Killing a prisoner who is not posing a threat to you is evil, sorry. Even a prisoner who does not do as you ask, still cannot be killed in cold blood (unless by not doing what you ask he poses a threat to you, such he is currently attacking you or an ally).
If your intentions are to play Chui as a cold blooded murderer, then that will not be allowed. In combat killing them is fair game, especially for a neutral character (good characters may occasionally act as Alex did and feel remorse for them dying, but they won't be penalized for killing when necessary, especially in defense). Even letting a person die on the field after combat is not evil, but once you take care of them (heal, stabilize, etc.) then they are no longer enemies and cannot be killed without an evil act.
At the start of this campaign I warned about evil characters. I will allow evil acts and the redemption story is always a good one, but it needs to be discussed with me. If a character continues to engage in evil acts, he will eventually be considered evil (permenantly) and will be removed from the game. We are not at this point currently with anyone, even if Chui kills this one guy, but take it as a warning that the GM is paying attention. And the players should also pay attention, because being a part of such an act can also drag you down with it.
I think this is a lot of over-reaction to the manner in which l’m having Chui speak and think on occasion. Have I ever done anything that could lead one to think that I want “to play Chui as a cold blooded murderer” or as an “evil character?”
If you carefully look at what Chui is proposing, you will see that he now wants to turn this guy over to the authorities ASAP.
If the yellow thug had continued to try and escape, and if there was no other way to stop him, then Chui would have used lethal force because such an individual is a “threat.’” He could be running to get help, trigger a trap, warn whoever hired him, etc.
In the end, the yellow thug did not escape. He eventually stopped resisting and allowed himself to be manacled, and Chui did not take any hostile action against him after this occurred. I think this sequence of events speaks for itself.
I think this is a lot of over-reaction to the manner in which l’m having Chui speak and think on occasion. Have I ever done anything that could lead one to think that I want “to play Chui as a cold blooded murderer” or as an “evil character?”
If you carefully look at what Chui is proposing, you will see that he now wants to turn this guy over to the authorities ASAP.
If the yellow thug had continued to try and escape, and if there was no other way to stop him, then Chui would have used lethal force because such an individual is a “threat.’” He could be running to get help, trigger a trap, warn whoever hired him, etc.
In the end, the yellow thug did not escape. He eventually stopped resisting and allowed himself to be manacled, and Chui did not take any hostile action against him after this occurred. I think this sequence of events speaks for itself.
Sorry if you feel it is over-reacting, but as GM I felt it necessary to put out there how it will be dealt with IF it happens. I do not want to have a repeat of previous issues, so I felt a warning was due.
And just because someone COULD be a threat in the future is not an excuse to commit murder. That is stretching the situation too far. Killing someone who poses no immediate threat to you, while they are helpless or unable to efficiently defend themselves is evil. PERIOD.
Just because he was not complying with your wishes and was trying to escape the person who was restraining him and promising to enjoy his murder is not a justification for murder. PERIOD.
If you look at what Chui was saying, you would see that Chui was threatening violence IF the thug did not stop resisting. While not a formal Intimidation attempt, Chui was essentially serking to indimidate the yellow thug so that lethal violence was NOT necessary.
I have said my piece. Chui may act as he wishes and deal with the consequences.
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Ok... Clearly, we have some differing opinions on good and evil. Fun stuff. In any case, Harmini won't make any attempt to stop Chui from questioning his helpless prisoner or turning him over to the guards. Bam said he also wants to question him and take him to the guards. That's fine with Harmini. However, she intends to continue on to the Sanctum as soon as reasonably possible (on her own if necessary). It may also even be possible for Chui and Bam to question the guy, take him to the guards and come back all in the time Harmini spends healing Alex's leg (1 hour). Once Alex chimes in, I think we can move forward here.
After some thought, I'd rather not question the guy. I'd like to get him and all the available evidence to the guards as soon as possible. I think playing this as straight as possible works to our advantage. We are innocent adventurers here with the blessing of the Big Croc who have been set upon by hired killers. The employer of those killers being a group of fanatical Nethys-ites lead by the infamous Taldan imperialist Velriana Hypaxes. Chui can present direct evidence that VH knew where we were going as he heard Alex tell her. We make it crystal clear that we are in the right, and VH and company are in the wrong.
Lady H and Alex can take refuge in the building where the Blue Trapper was posted. Bam and Chui haul the prisoner and the weapons we've collected to the Voice guards, telling them they are bodies which need to be retrieved. We then return to Lady H and Alex's location, hopefully with a gaggle of concerned Pharasmans in tow.
How does this sound?
Bambara is all for this as its the right thing to do
Chui smiles...
Every once in a while, the "right thing" to do is also the smart thing.
OK, my brain is mush. I just reread the Player’s Guide, and in the very first paragraph, it says the Ruby Prince “ordered” the church and local government to open the Necropolis to adventurers. I have no idea what this means for our PCs, but it is interesting.
OK team, not sure who has seen it yet but I have been checking out the 2E PDF this weekend. No, I am not suggesting that we switch to 2E here but I am seeing what they did for the Exploration Mode. It kind of addresses what I was looking for, and I took too far with my attempt to correct this (continuously taking 20 slows things down to a crawl, literally). So, I am working on a new idea for our own Exploration Mode idea.
Here is what I am proposing:
1. The group (Chui as the scout really) decides on the exploration speed. The speed will determine the bonuses/penalties to checks.
2. As GM, I will make a secret (not really) check between each encounter to determine the groups "searching" check. The bonus on this check will be the scout's perception bonus, +2 for each other person searching (assuming the group stays somewhat together).
3. There are other options for what people can do during exploration, which I am open to suggestions. Ideas I have are Maintaining a spell, Tracking, Covering tracks, Defending (bonus to initiative and/or AC?).
4. If you wish to mix searching and stealth, there will be a -2 penalty to the search roll and the stealth check will be made by taking 10.
Now the speeds and penalties involved are below:
100 ft. per minute gives a +4 bonus to searching and no penalty to stealth.
150 ft. per minute gives a +2 bonus to searching and no penalty to stealth.
200 ft. per minute give a -2 bonus to searching and a -2 penalty to stealth.
250 ft. per minute gives a -4 penalty to searching and -5 penalty to stealth.
300 ft. per minute give a -6 penalty to searching and -10 penalty to stealth.
So, what do you think? I know this changes things up but it also makes it so that everyone is involved in exploration. Also, brings it back into
I like it and bambara would be defendingbthe group as we move along