Pretty!
Nice art there. It will be cool to see our city update with actual visuals instead of just numbers.
Thanks! I haven't done anything like this before, so let me know if there's anything you'd like to see added or changed! Next step is to add a scale and a compass. Once we decide on a name, I will add some labels too.
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It isn't the whole hex... I'll need to figure out the scale. In fact, it might need some modification, now that I've read through the kingdom building turn sequence and how the cities are laid out.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/kingdomsAndWar/kingdomT urnSequence.html#terrain-improvements
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You are doing a great job so far. Tell me if you need help with anything.
Ok, so it appears we have a call for a name of our Barony, folks. I'm really liking the Salvaged Lands as our transition from The Stolen Lands. Especially since Issia, (which 3 of us are from or descended from, I think?) is supposedly a "pirate" nation? Har har... Arr!
If no objection, I'll submit that as the name when I post tomorrow. Had a test today and I have to update my pfs games first.
I prefer the name Haven to Salvaged Lands, but either one is fine.
A capitol city named Haven and nation named Salvaged Lands is fine by me. Will post in character tomorrow.
I updated the map a bit over the weekend. It's mostly the same, but the fort is smaller to adjust the scale, and I made the water a little fancier. Red says the exact scale isn't a big deal. For approximation, the fort is about 100 feet by 100 feet, making the map about 1/4 of a mile by 1/4 of a mile (or about 1300 x 1300 square feet). This weekend, I'll add some labels for the city name, rivers, Lake Tuskwater, etc.
Sorry everyone! We have been having unseasonably nasty winter storms in north/east Texas and it has been effecting virtually every bleeding thing from travel to (of course!) internet. I will get a post up ASAP before my connection runs out on me again.
That's very accurate.
Sounds fine, no one seems to like the idea of recruiting the thugs, so we'll drop them off with the guards.
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grats us on 3000 posts!
This begins our first Kingdom Building™ turn, following the process laid out in the kingdom turn sequence.
You begin this turn with 55 BP (spreadsheet to track this stuff forthcoming). As per the turn sequence, your kingdom controls 0 hexes so the upkeep phase is skipped and we proceed to edicts.
Leadership edicts: At this point we need to finalize who is occupying what role in the kingdom. You're limited to such people who are available to you on-site, IE if you want to make Aldifierri your diplomat you have to wait until he wanders by and recruit him. Since you're just starting out, I will not enforce vacancy penalties: The people are concerned about having shelter over their heads and are not particularly upset if they don't have a Grand Diplomat. Vacancy penalties will not be enforced until after the third kingdom turn, giving you three months to fill slots without penalty.
You also need to declare the alignment of your country, which will effect your starting kingdom stats.
I also need to know your Holiday, Promotion, and Taxation edicts.
Claim Hexes: You claim hex S7, which includes the Stag Lord's Fort. This costs 1BP, leaving you with 54, and increases your kingdom size and control DC to 1 and 21, respectively. The strategic and logistic value of the Stag Lord's Fort grants a +1 bonus to kingdom stats. The groundwork already completed for the fort halves the BP cost of a castle built around the old ruins. Since you'll likely start with a watchtower and upgrade it as the BP becomes available (you probably don't want to start off by spending half your treasury on one building) the 50% discount will apply to the watchtower and every step of the upgrading.
Improvements: Automatically, on your first turn you improve hex S7 by preparing a settlement on it. This cost 1BP, leaving you with 53.
You then can construct buildings.
If this is your kingdom's first settlement, you should start with an Inn, Shrine, Monastery, or Watchtower. In addition, you may also purchase and construct 1 House, Mansion, Noble Villa, or Tenement. If your first building is an Inn, you must construct a House or Tenement next to it, as building an Inn requires an adjacent House or Tenement
I'll need to know what your choices are with that.
You may also make one additional hex improvement this turn.
Well, let's see. Probably no reason to start taxing yet when people are just getting things set up. Maybe declare the first year of building the kingdom to be tax free?
Holidays: What faiths are represented among the people? I know we have Erastil and Gorum, and Iomedae from the crusaders. Any Desnans or Sarenrites?
Promotion seems to be getting ahead of ourselves. Let's focus on getting a kingdom established before we start advertising it.
I think we decided that Idris was going to be the Marshall.
Out of character:
Holidays: In Pathfinder, I think a lot of folks worship multiple gods - I'm on the road, so I'll pray to Desna. It's harvest time, so I'll ask Erastil for a good bounty. Someone just died, so we send their soul to Pharasma. I vote for 6. Here's a list of common pathfinder holidays: http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Holidays_and_festivals
Promotion: Token? Let people know that we are a new place they can come live, it's official, and we're not just a random group of people claiming to be nobles. I'd guess that 'token' means mostly word of mouth stuff, along with a sign that says "Welcome to Haven. Population: 35" ;)
Taxation: None or light at first, then maybe increase it to normal as we grow?
Alignment: Milo is neutral good. Lawful Good or Neutral Good would make sense to him, not sure about the rest of the party.
Hurrah! I have to study and take a test today, but I will be leaping on task tomorrow. Just jotting a few thoughts and questions now.
Alignment: I think Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral will serve us well. I've looked at some guides and the consensus seems to be to focus on Economy, Stability and Loyalty in that order as we establish our Barony.
Edicts: I agree with no taxation to begin, our citizens are poor refugees and our Sootscale friends. Sera is planning to pow-wow with the kobolds soon and assure them that they will be respected citizens of these lands too. I have I feeling it will need to be handled delicately and running in there and demanding taxes does not sound like a good idea! XD
Also no promotion edict at this time sounds reasonable, especially if we don't suffer the negatives of not having one. If word gets out we have no taxes, that might be all we need to draw new settlers!
I think we should issue some Holiday Edicts, starting with our Haven Homecoming! Since they cover a whole year, I think 6 yearly holidays sounds reasonable, even though we will have a lot of work this first year.
Improvements: If I am understanding correctly, I agree with upgrading the ruined fort to a Watchtower first. Is there a set number that can shelter in the Watchtower? And as per our community plans, I think we should build a House and a Farm. Or should we exploit the condition of the Inn and build both an Inn and a House simultaneously?
Ok, now questions:
1) Red, are the Teamsters going to leave as soon as they unload or are they staying in Haven too?
2) Since we were really close to Bokken's Hut while on the road from Restov, could we have detoured slightly and dropped off his glassware?
3) Did we get all the assassins who attacked us initially? I have a nagging sensation that one got lost in the shuffle somewhere... but I can't recall how many attacked us at first and how many we killed in the first battle.
4) Just double checking on the Robe of Arcane Heritage, is it ok to say we completed that on our journey and Sera has it now as we arrive at Haven?
5) I'm a little confused as to the division of hexes into districts and lots... Like how many lots are available in our initial hex?
LG sounds good.
Kivan would suggest building a house and shrine as our first buildings and creating a farm improvement. For the Edict's Kivan would think light taxation, token promotion, and 6 holidays per year.
Holidays: Although I agree with your Milo's and Idris' reasoning, Pretty tends to believe that we should always start slow, so she would vote for 1 holiday only. Start small, we don't need several dates to rest just yet, everybody needs to work. Increasing the number later is easier than decreasing it in dire times, specially since you guys are thinking about tarting slow with the taxation. To be even more specific, I think we should with the Archerfeast as our single holiday, for now, and then we improve the number later, when we actually have something estabilished. It happens on the 3rd day of Erastus, so we will have basically the whole month of Sarenith to settle and prepare for it. When the first buildings are done and some people are settled they would have that celebration.
Promotion: Token. Pretty wants to be more agressive, but maybe we cannot afford it. Still, Standard would also be nice.
Taxation: None on the first turn, Light on the second, Normal on the third and forward. If they get used to the non-existent taxation it will become complicated for us later (on roleplay only, of course). We are offering a new chance, and putting our resources and our own lives on the line to keep them safe. It's just fair that the kingdom receives compensation for it. After all, if we do not charge taxes we cannot grow. We need economy.
Alignment: LG or NG. Pretty is CG, and she feels ok with this. She does not want a whole kingdom acting like her. ^_^
Improvements: A farm would be nice. But we cannot build it on the Fort's Hex, right? We need to claim one more hex, at least. A house sounds fine along with the observation post, by the way.
5) I'm a little confused as to the division of hexes into districts and lots... Like how many lots are available in our initial hex?
Our settlement has only one district to begin with, which gives us 36 lots (or 9 large blocks). Later we can have as many districts as we want in the same hex, I believe.
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Seraphina's questions:
You can bivouac your settlers within the Stag Lord's Fort, recall that a sizable contingent of bandits lived there. Especially with some fixer upper work, the old walls and roof make for decent shelter. The Watchtower building represents new construction of a modern and intact fortification incorporating already present infrastructure in addition to the other structures on site.
1)Teamsters are heading back with empty wagons as soon as they've unloaded.
2)absolutely. I'll put that in my next gameplay post
3)All the assassins who attacked you are dead. The hired help they arranged for their second attempt had three escaped and three handed over to the guard, but all the assassins themselves are dead.
4)yep, you're rocking it
5)settlements are divided into districts that have lots, which keeps track of settlement size for things like population and item economy. Hexes that aren't settled as a city don't have districts and lots. For example, you can have a hex with farm improvements: This represents a collection of scattered farms in a rural setting with the major activity being agriculture. Only cities are spelled out in greater resolution.
Maja:
We can make a Royal Engineer position. Adds Int to Economy.
Although Idris has not voted yet, it is safe to announce that our Kingdom will be LG (+2 Economy, +2 Loyalty).
I don't mind having Oleg to do the job, but I don't think we should do that. His wife is pregnant, and he is receiving more visitors than he used to. Plus, Kesten is not there anymore. I was thinking of Henna to fill the vacant position, giving her a good chance in life to be safe. The girl seemed wise, although not so smart or brave.
How did we lose Kesten? He was still at Oleg's when we got there wasn't he?
No, he wasn't. He was returning home. I assumed you guys had some way of contacting him.
Kesten left with his men before we did, heading back to his family's holdings. Was hoping he'd get back before us, but it's a fair distance (200ish miles), so it's likely he will be away for a bit longer. As he wasn't mentioned in the arrival at Oleg's, I think he must not be back yet.
Link to post where we discussed his leaving.
Filled in my votes on the sheet. Glad we are decided on Lawful Good, I think that will lead to the best community.
Kivan! What happened to your post? I saw you had posted some details on our beginning kingdom stats and found that really helpful. And I thought the leadership roster you posted was funny, so how soon can we expect your clone? XD
I think we should be more easy going on the taxes than Pretty suggests. Here's the guide I mentioned, advice regarding taxes as follows:
Always keep the Taxation edict at “none” unless your Loyalty is above your Command DC. In which case increase Taxation keeping Loyalty within 2 of the command DC.
The Taxation Edict is a relatively poor deal. It adds to Economy at the expense of Loyalty. Remembering that 5 Economy = 1 BP, then using the Taxation edict is rating Loyalty at a cost of 7.5-11.25 BP per point (depending on level of Taxation used). This is clearly a poor deal compared to common buildings such as a Dump, Monument or Library.
If Loyalty is above Command DC then the relative cost of Taxation is irrelevant. It is essentially free to power Taxation with excess Loyalty as long as Loyalty remains within 2 of Command DC.
Role-playing reasons: people become more unhappy the more they are taxed and it looks like there are kinder/more efficient ways to build economy.
I can re-post some of the items, but seeing as how we have voted I can now make a more detailed analysis of our kingdom.
Kingdom Stats
Economy: Currently 19 as Pretty is applying her Spymaster bonus to it.
Loyalty: 8 +Bara's Str or Con +Azur Brey's Cha or Wis
Stability: 7 +Kesten Garess's Str or Cha
Current BP: 53 (not including the cost of what we build this turn)
Current Consumption: 3
Current Kingdom Size: 1
Current Kingdom Control DC: 21 (not including any district we may build this turn)
These stats include the modifiers from the edicts we have issued (1 holiday per year, token expansion, no taxation by majority), the +1 bonus from the Stag Lord's fort, and alignment of our kingdom (LG by majority), but not any other buildings as of yet. We are currently missing a Treasurer and Grand Diplomat which is important as these two position control whether we can make taxation edicts or not and if we can make diplomatic or exploration edicts. They also will apply a -4 to economy and a -2 to stability if not filled soon. Also Sera needs to choose soon on which of these three stats she will start adding to.
Current ideas on what to build Turn 1 is a House and Shrine, a House and Inn, or a House and Watchtower. IIRC I don't think we can build a farm this turn as I think terrain improvements can't be built on a settlement, but I may be wrong.
The religion bonus was mentioned, already figured in. I still think we might be able to get by with no Treasurer, but I'm also fine with asking Oleg to help out just til we fill that position. Do we even make the income roll if our taxation edict is "None"?
Looks like we won't have Kesten Garess available this time around... if that's the case, we might need to shuffle some positions. Milo could maybe sub in as General or maybe have Azur Brey fill that roll if he's better suited and Milo could fill in the Councilor role? Before Maja suggested Brey, I had thought a kobold Councilor might be the way to go.
We want to make sure our Stability stat is not too low, since beating the control DC on that will net us a BP and failing it by 5 or more will increase unrest. For that reason, I will probably add my modifier to Stabillity and I think we should assign a Diplomat. The half-elf NPC I posted about might make a decent Grand Diplomat option for now. I wrote Vivian as being beautiful and persuasive so I thought she might rate at least a 16 on her Charisma score.
Red, if we build a Watchtower, is that counting as a building or a terrain improvement? Is Kivan right that we can't build a farm this turn because we can't build it on our settlement hex?
I know a mill is a good early build, stats wise but does it really make sense before the people have farms and homes?
I've added my bonus to economy because it seems to me the main issue, but since our Stability is to low to actually control the kingdom we can swap it there, if you think that just with your bonus we're gonna have problems.
Is there any way to send a message to Kesten?
Also, is there any opportunity for Idris while in Restov to try to recruit any restless journeymen swordlords or initiates who haven't quite made it, kind of like the thugs before they went bad?
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Try this link to a kingdom tracker spreadsheet. It's quite a doozy of an excel document - 12.5mb! You should be able to edit fields, this is stored in my Dropbox public folder. Let me know if you can't access or edit it please.
The spreadsheet looks to have been created for the kingmaker ruleset and then updated for ultimate campaign. A few of the things are out of date, for instance the taxation and holiday edicts are the old style and not the UC choices. I'm not the level 99 excel wizard that Walter is, so if you can play with it to update the taxation and holiday edicts that would be cool, if not we can use the old values.
I've changed "viceroy" to "royal engineer". Viceroy added half int to economy, royal engineer will add full int to economy. If someone wants to dig into that please be my guest, if not I'll figure it out later.
Grids will be used to track how full districts get, but the real layout will happen on Milo's area map.
answers to questions:
-Kesten was not at Oleg's upon your return. He'll be back soon enough that you can go ahead and put him in your kingdom docs. If you choose to use Aldifierri you can go ahead and put him in as well.
-You can send a messenger to Kesten, or use magical communication. He'll be back shortly, however, because plot.
-Watchtower is both a building and a hex improvement. As a hex improvement, you are limited to one per hex and it increases the defense score of that hex. As a building, it adds to the defense of your city and it seems you can build as many as you please. You can choose either hex improvement for your watchtower, but I would recommend having it as a settlement building; You can upgrade the watchtower to increasingly better fortifications, and doing so on the site of the Stag Lord's Fort gives you a 50% discount. You'll work up to having a castle for 50% off, which is way better than having a hex improvement watchtower for 50% off.
-You can have a farm in the same hex as your settlement. The settlement doesn't count against other hex improvements, although a suggested house rule that sounds reasonable is if your settlement grows so large that it takes over the whole hex (each district is 1 square mile) then you can't have anything else in the hex.
I did want to mention that currently you have Bara as the Warden and Milo as the Enforcer. From an optimization standpoint that's sound but from a RP perspective that's backwards. I'll allow it, obviously, but it might raise in-character issues
If I'm reading then correctly, Milo would be satisfied with any of the roles (marshal, enforcer, warden, or general) where he is protecting the people and the land. Warden would be his first choice, but the others make for some interesting rp situations.
I was having trouble differentiating the roles. Thinking on it, I feel like the enforcer is a combination judge and executioner. The marshal is similar to the chief of police, making sure people obey the law. The warden is more like a sheriff, patrolling and looking for people up to no good out in the frontier. Let me know what you think, I'm a little confused since it seems like they overlap a lot.
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As long as they assassinate the bad guys.
Red, what about my thought of Idris recruiting people from the academy -- is that possible?
Ha, I just recalled the moment, ten years ago, when I started to play Ragnarok and turned into a lvl 10 swordsman. Then a level 99 paladin passed by on full speed atop his Peco-Peco and I was like "hey, look at how noob I am!"
I'm gonna start my learning process right now. By the Red, that link is only to download the sheet, I cannot open it in your Dropbox, so any changes I made will remain on my version of it, and not in yours. Try to get a viewing link or maybe upload it to google docs (although I'm not sure if the Gdocs has so many options).
@Milo I would go with the Warden if I were you. Wardens (in the traditional concept) are usually related and empowered by nature, like you are. I was a warden at 4th edition.
Well we only need to be in our positions for 7 days to get the benefits and each kingdom turn is a month so we could go explore the southern hexs with those extra days though Kivan would like a few of those days for crafting since that will allow him to complete all of his crafting.
Warden it is!
Red copied these rules up above: If this is your kingdom's first settlement, you should start with an Inn, Shrine, Monastery, or Watchtower. In addition, you may also purchase and construct 1 House, Mansion, Noble Villa, or Tenement. If your first building is an Inn, you must construct a House or Tenement next to it, as building an Inn requires an adjacent House or Tenement.
This is what I could find that people had posted so far:
Building 1:
Inn: Maja
Shrine:
Monastery:
Watchtower: Sera, Milo
Building 2: (must be a house or tenement if Building 1 is an inn)
House: Maja, Milo
Mansion:
Noble Villa:
Tenement:
Terrain Improvements: Since we own 1 hex, we can make 2 terrain improvements.
Mill: Maja
Farm: Kivan, Maja, Milo
Watchtower: could build it here if we don't agree to have it as our first building
I'm not exactly sure of our Kingdom size right now, but I'll assume it's less than 10. So, besides founding the settlement, we can make 1 new building, make 2 terrain improvements, and claim 1 new hex. It sounds like we need to prepare it first as one of the terrain improvements, right? I assume we'll be living in temporary shelters -- tents and bivouacs and such -- until we get things built.
What I'm saying in this post may be things that you guys already know, but I'm typing it out to make sure I understand it.
One thing I noticed that I don't think has been discussed is that:
The first House you build during the Improvement phase does not count against the total number of buildings you can build during the phase
So apparently we can build a house as a 'free action'. If I'm interpreting this correctly, that means in our founding of the settlement, we need to spend one terrain improvement action on preparing it, then we can found it, get to build one building as part of founding the settlement, get to build another building as the standard part of the turn, and get to build a house since it doesn't count against the total number we can build in a turn.
A farm would make sense as the second terrain improvement, or a watchtower if we build something else in the settlement.
I vote for the Inn as our first building, since I believe the Watchtower can wait a little bit. Our defense is not so important now, or so I think. The House as second building, and the Farm as our improvement. In the link I opened there's no such thing as improvement in form of a Mill.