So, I thought about the "kobold vassal state" issue.
Having a vassal state seems prohibitive this early in the building process: the Kingmaker AP is thought to make one kingdom, not two.
But, the idea of the kobold vassal state is too good to pass up. So, here's my idea.
Instead of making two kingdoms right away, let's make a kingdom with 2 settlements. One at Oleg's (or Stag Lord's fort, but I think the consensus is towards Oleg's) and one either at the gold mine or the sootscales.
Oleg's will be our capital and our base of operations. If we're starting to build a kingdom, we definitiely need to explore more hexes.
The second settlement will work as a boom-town for gold miners, and wil definitely be N or CN rather than NG. We can have the kobolds enter an arrangement with us to work there, with Felix's supervision (I'm advocating Felix as the Mayor of this new town). Sanita would proably love it there - this can host the HQ of whatever position she ends up with.
***
Speaking of positions, I see Bej as a Mayor (Erastil and small communities and such) but Warden works too. I should invest in Knowledge (eng) to make up for my average Con, but after reading the fluff of the position, it is something he could definitely do. Probably better than Tresurer IC.
Also, I found out this:
These rules include enough important leadership roles that a small group of PCs can't fill them all. You may have to recruit NPCs to fill out the remaining necessary roles for your kingdom. Cohorts, followers, and even intelligent familiars or similar companions can fill leadership role
Did Dareon say he wanted a lyrakien azata as a familiar? Here's one more reason to do so! And of course we all want Munin to be Mayor of something!
Starting vassal state works pretty well actually, with a balanced trade agreement. The action economy should work out pretty well. Also munin for spy master of the kobolds.
Starting vassal state works pretty well actually, with a balanced trade agreement. The action economy should work out pretty well. Also munin for spy master of the kobolds.
but wouldn't the vassal state suffer penalites from the position vacancies? Or do we have enough NPCs to cover that?
If number-wise the vassal state works, then I'm all for it.
@Fharn
No, you're not stepping down. Besides, Sanita has absolutely no interest in your job. :)
Soot scale , the three named kobolds we had dealings with, Ben, the fallen paladin, the other repentant bandit, munin as spy master. I actually think we can manage it.
I'm not sure if we should assign random NPC:s to rule the kingdom next door, unless we are very certain of their allegiance and competence. Besides, shouldn't there be competent Kobolds in the tribe?
I was planning on having Munin awakened later (when I got Improved Familiar) and offer him a job as assistant/vice Treasurer. However, I'm sure he would be up for other employment ...
Oleg and Svetlana are competent enough, I'm sure that they'd be willing to take on leadership positions if we had things like Treasurer and Councilor open. (I am, of course, referring to the leadership positions of the vassal state).
Additionally, yeah, I think Munin would be a hilarious choice. Munin for Mayor!
I was going to have Molly awakened after I got an improved familar. She already has 10 Int, it's just hard to roleplay with a creature that can't speak when we don't need tiny familiar-things done.
@Dareons suggestions
Splitting up seems like the most efficient plan. Fhârn wouldn't mind some time to turn that gold into useful things anyway, so he is okay with remaining behind. My only (OOC) concern is if any of the exploration groups get bogged down in combat or something :P But I guess we can manage that ^^
Speaking of which, us wizards should probably have a quick meeting first. I'm sure we each have some magic to share, and if Dareon is going to travel to civilisation we might aswell send a shopping list with him :P
I'm considering setting up some kind of additional resource for our "mage guild", like a google doc (similar to Wilhelms loot spreadsheet) were we could keep a record of all spells stored at a central location. Perhaps even a wishlist or some research/crafting lists - thoughts ?
@Dareons suggestions
Splitting up seems like the most efficient plan. Fhârn wouldn't mind some time to turn that gold into useful things anyway, so he is okay with remaining behind. My only (OOC) concern is if any of the exploration groups get bogged down in combat or something :P But I guess we can manage that ^^
Speaking of which, us wizards should probably have a quick meeting first. I'm sure we each have some magic to share, and if Dareon is going to travel to civilisation we might aswell send a shopping list with him :P
I'm considering setting up some kind of additional resource for our "mage guild", like a google doc (similar to Wilhelms loot spreadsheet) were we could keep a record of all spells stored at a central location. Perhaps even a wishlist or some research/crafting lists - thoughts ?
YES!
If you're staying behind, Bej will leave the Stag Lord's bow and 500 gp with you to add the Adaptive quality. That's just half a day of work anyway.
======
the centralized spell bank is something very useful - we could all need to swap spellbooks for a day or two to copy something before going on adventure. I really want alarm (good spell to have with bonded item) and a few of Dareon's... create pit (eternal favorite of mine), pyrotechincs and glitterdust especially.
Spells we can all use are Conjuration, Trasmutation, Divination and Abjuration... though how can Dareon live without Illusion is beyond me...
Personally, I'm interested in liberating command and alter self from Bej and shield from Fharn. In terms of setting up a greater organizational structure for wizardliness in our new kingdom, I am all for it. Because both Fharn and I have craft feats (and I plan to take one or two more as we progress) and Sanita (who's kind of a spellcaster) can make some magic items (and has Brew Potion) we have plenty of crafting capacity.
As for my part, I'll be leaving 2000gp for Fharn and requesting a headband of vast intelligence +2. I'll also likely be purchasing haste, fly, and web, along with whatever you folks want when I head up for scroll-purchasing and advertising. That leaves something like 900gp for scribing costs, which is more than enough.
We can't do any of the enchanting/artificing/brewing/alchemizing until we get raw materials. The best way to get it is to send one person back with Wilhelm and Dareon and a giant shopping list to grab all the materials needed. Also, we need to sell off a bunch of stuff anyway, and Oleg may not be able to handle the sales (up to GM).
Sanita could go back with Wilhelm and Dareon, then buy all the stuff, and come back. She'd just need one of the horses for a pack horse. The road up to Oleg's is safe, and she can rejoin all the people doing brewing/enchanting/etc at Olegs, spend a week or two doing brewing/enchanting/etc and then start exploring/hunting the boar.
I'm all for myself and a group going to subdue the hexes between the stag lords fort, oleg's and the gold mine. Dante is not much use at anything besides fighting anyway. So who's with me for the exploratory military campaign into the underbrush?
As Sanita pointed out, our gold is still in 'stuff' shape. But sending her to pick up the materials seems smart (and she is strong and stealthy enough to be able to carry it herself and sneak past any robbers or similar complications :P). Perhaps Oleg has some basics, otherwise it shouldn't be more of a couple of days delay anyway.
Edit: Forgot what I came here to write, I'll set up a spreadsheet for a spellbank then : )
Edit2: Tried to make something fancy, but Docs Spreadsheets only supports 6 fonts and a bare minimum of features... Anyways, here it is!
Don't forget that Rowan also has Craft Wondrous Items. Once I have the gold I'm thinking about creating some druid's vestments for myself but in the meantime I don't mind creating things for others.
Yes, we can stop talking about what's going on with Wilhelm's love life now before this becomes some sort of gossip tabloid. Friggin' paparazzi. :P
There is another option to our 12 player problem. Move Vors of royal enforcer and give him a mayor position, that would be fine with me in and out PF character.
I think we can solve this without needing you to step out of the role. Would you prefer to do something else? I think we need a different name for the royal enforcer, though. The description reads:
"The Royal Enforcer deals with punishing criminals, working with the Councilor to make sure the citizens feel the government is adequately dealing with wrongdoers, and working with the Marshal to capture fugitives from the law. The Royal Enforcer may grant civilians the authority to kill in the name of the law."
That honestly sounds more like a detective/police chief/justice than anything. It might be interesting if the 'Enforcer' was also responsible for any courts we establish. That would tie in nicely with the "citizens feel the government is adequately dealing with wrongdoers" bit.
Starting vassal state works pretty well actually, with a balanced trade agreement. The action economy should work out pretty well. Also munin for spy master of the kobolds.
I'm interested to see what the kobolds want. They may or may not want to be a separate kingdom depending on what terms we offer. A N vassal state has a lot of appeal for practical (and awesome) reasons, but I guess we'll see.
We can't do any of the enchanting/artificing/brewing/alchemizing until we get raw materials. The best way to get it is to send one person back with Wilhelm and Dareon and a giant shopping list to grab all the materials needed. Also, we need to sell off a bunch of stuff anyway, and Oleg may not be able to handle the sales (up to GM).
I think my plan should handle this neatly, but if people disagree, feel free to say so. I, incidentally, wouldn't mind a Headband of Alluring Charisma (+2) when Fhârn or Rowan gets the chance. :)
Edit:
I'll post some thoughts later when I've thought of some good ones.
Don't forget that Rowan also has Craft Wondrous Items. Once I have the gold I'm thinking about creating some druid's vestments for myself but in the meantime I don't mind creating things for others.
I'm sure Munin knows that (now at least) and he will ask Rowan what he needs as well for crafting. :)
@Wilhelm: Sorry puny non-caster, Wishes are for mighty arcane wizards (& sorcerers) only :P
As far as spells go, Sanita is unfortunately going to be rather a selfish type with that, as she can only steal from others. Wizards, etc can't use her formulae. But she can brew potions (some of which are actually illegal for wizardy types to do if I remember correctly!).
Myes, didn't notice the the gameplay thread that snuck up on me! Will get to that in a moment...
@Sanita: The plan was kindof that we send someone (a wizard probably) to learn alot of spells abroad or somewhere, then that wizard (probably with the help of others) scribe the spells into public (well, probably just us to start with) available spellbooks. Which Sanita is more then welcome to steal/loan from : )
But everybody planning on using this library of knowledge should probably put some gold into it, so our chosen one doesn't have to pay for it all by himself.
edit:This will probably save us some money in the long run, since I am fairly certain one can buy/copy new spells from NPC wizards for alot cheaper then scrolls. And since we have yet to attain a astronomical level, those wizards shouldn't be that hard to track down (especially since one of us actually have some people skills!)
You do realize you can buy used spellbooks right? It just costs the cost of the spellbook and the cost of the spells scribed therein.
I suggest you send Sanita back to buy some used spellbooks while she's in Brevoy.
Yeah, that's right ... That is very nice if one can find a spellbook containing all the spells we want, and not that many duplicates ... : )
I put some spells I'm interested in into the sheet. I know some are already known by others - but I put them there for completions sake.
They're not that expensive, so it's actually better to buy them even with duplicates, rather than scrolls. Beyond that, Sanita can also track down a wizard or magus and pay them to transcribe a spell into a spellbook as well, still cheaper than a scroll.
Yeah, paying them to transcribe was the way I envisioned it working. Buying books when we can have bulk savings (besides, we might get some freebies or other nice stuff!) when we can and scrolls only when we are dealing with particularly greedy wizards.
I also put a link to the spreadsheet into Fhârns character bar - to make it easier to locate.
@Wilhelms important question (the name of our country). I don't have any good ideas atm. Are we above stealing names from other franchises ?^^ If not, I have a decent supply of mediocre atleast !
So, to clarify, is Sanita just going to wait for Münin's reply and then head up to Brevoy directly? Or was she going to check back in with the rest of the group first?
I wasn't sure of the policy on spell-buying, but any money we can save on it is great :D I'm willing to put in about 1,000gp into the spell-buying venture, I have the people skills, and I'm willing to be the one to spend my time doing it.
@The Name: I like Bastion a lot, or other protection/safety/shield references.
Munin was supposed to ask if anyone wanted her to look for anything special while she was out hunting in the woods, and to tell them she was planning a trip to Brevoy as she wasn't sure she could get everything she needed in the woods.
But through a combination of Sanita's rambling way of talking, and sending the message via Munin to Fharn, it kind of jumbled the two together. :)
Yeah, I got that, but it seems some got lost in translation ... Sorry!
LOL, no biggie, we can assume that it got across correctly. :)
I'm adding things to the mage guild document, I hope that's totally chill :)
Yes - of course ! Add away : )
edit1 Switched "Cost" to "Base Price" on the crafting tab since all time is calculated from "Base Price".
edit2 Or I'm adding a colum for both, just to make sure .. :)
Edit3 @ Kertuffle
As the moment of downtime is creeping closer, I'd like to ask if we are using the downtime rules or not. If I don't misremember there was talk about them, but I can't recall if they were to be used or not ...
Also, in the same vein - I have another question. When using Trade Goods (ie Goods, Magic and perhaps Labour) to pay for crafting/research/scribing costs - are each point of Trade Goods worth their acquisition cost (ie, only a timesink for such projects - still works fine for rooms/organizations etc) or are they worth their purchase cost (ie, Crafting gains very god marginals at the cost of time)?
Oh, and are we allowed to spend less then 8h each day crafting (if the item is cheaper then 1000/2000 gp, like how it works for potions)?
I added all of my spells to the First, Second, and Third Circle spell-lists and added a request for the headband in the Crafter's Column.
Also, as long as it's a wish-list I added quite a few new spells. I'm re-thinking my build and I'm wanting to be REALLY versatile :D
Great!
It would be awesome if everyone could make a note of how much it costs them and how many pages it takes to put new spells there. Just in case we need to track costs (if Dareon ends up putting in spells worth ~1000 gp it seems only fair the rest of us should pay for a larger share of the new spells).
Sanita would be happy to put Formulae in, but it's kind of pointless, as if we have the spell, any alchemist can learn from it. But not vice versa. :) There's no 'alchemist only' formulae, so Sanita just has to contribute by brewing and crafting alchemy items.
Szentély or Szenté, seeing as I think Brevoy also has a slavic influence.
Szentély means Sanctuary in the Magyar language (Hungary).
Szentély or Szenté, seeing as I think Brevoy also has a slavic influence.
Szentély means Sanctuary in the Magyar language (Hungary).
I really like the second option there.
Will make a note to spend 45gp on three spellbooks (one for each level), so that is taken care of atleast!
And Sanita can always list her wishes - if she wants a spell or something acquired : )
Edit: Notet Dareons contribution to the knowledge pool as well.
Edit2: Will have an opinion formed on our name by tomorrow, the hour is too late right now : )
Potions Sanita can (eventually) make cheaper than anyone else :
Ablative Barrier (2nd)
Deathwine (2nd)
Imbue With Addiction (2nd)
Water of Maddening (2nd)
Absorbing Touch (3rd)
Alchemist Formulae that are Alchemist Exclusive
Alchemical Allocation
Shadow Bomb Admixture (Sanita can't get)
Transmute Potion to Poison
Vomit Swarm (Technically witches get it also, but they don't have spellbooks, so Alchemist exclusive for spell books)
Absorb Toxicity (4th and 5th level spell for others, 3rd for Alchemists, should get it as a formulae too)
Absorbing Touch
Amplify Elixir
Bloodhound (Inquisitor's and Rangers get it, but no spellbook entries)
Lightning Lash Bomb Admixture
Orchid’s Drop
Thorn Body (Druid also, but no spell book versions)
Unfortunately, I think it would be terribly inefficient to maintain spellbooks separate from our own spellbooks that contain all of the spells that we collectively have.
I mean, if we lose our spellbooks, that would keep us safe from losing all of our reserves...so it's smart that way, but scribing costs get expensive after awhile. That's all.
It's a shared cost though, and any wizard who doesn't maintain a backup is asking for the GM to destroy his spell book.
And... spells are not really all that expensive to scribe into books. Even a level 9 spell is only 810gp. How worth it is it to have that level 9 spell backed up when you're level 16? 810 is kind of a pittance at that level.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Making a note now for what my long term plans are for my loot so I don't forget.
Total Gold: 1139.6gp + 3900gp (my share)
Buying:
Masterwork Cold Iron falchion - 450 gp
+1 enchantment for said falchion - 2000 gp (Fhârn crafting cost)
Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 - 2000 gp (Fhârn or Rowan crafting cost)
Masterwork longbow (+3 Str) - 700 gp
Military saddle - 20 gp
Total purchases: 5170 gp
Selling: (listed values are the sell values)
Riding saddle - 5 gp
Falchion - 37.5 gp
Longbow - 37.5 gp
Light combat-trained riding horse - 55 gp
Total sales: 135 gp
Math:
1139.6 + 3900 + 135 - 5170 = 4.6 gp left
Finished updating my character sheet (including yet-my to-be-found mount). I'm tentatively leaning towards Argento (thanks Lanya) for the name with the caveat that if he's not a white horse, I'm renaming him. :)
WAIT A SECOND I just realized that I can sell those bracers of armor that I've got for 4,500gp. This makes me happy.
I need to make a comprehensive list of the things that I'm going to buy. I also need some GM ruling on the spell-buying standards. CAN we buy spellbooks to save money on spells?
@ Dareon I understand how you feel, every expense hurts - especially since we are not that rich to begin with. But it will be a shared expense and if we are allowed to use the beneficial downtime system for spell adding it will cost even less.
However, if we really don't want to spend the extra gold we can probably make due also. But then we should probably add a small note next to every spell so one can keep track on whom have which spell.
edit: Hmh - right you got those from that Ghost :P That means you could probably afford to waste some gp on scribing, right ^^?
No, I believe it's absolutely a good idea to keep a spare. We could even splurge on that blessed book to make sure we only ever really need one and to negate any scribing costs we could ever incur because of it.
I have so much money. I have like 8,300gp with selling those bracers.
Is it required that Oleg's is our first city district?
Sorry about being AWOL yesterday. I got home from work late and had no time before people started arriving for my real life game. Anyway, Oleg's is not required for your first hex, you certainly start at the Stag Lord's Fort and expand upwards to then include Olegs.
So what would you prefer belt or amulet?
@Wilhelm - the role is fine with me. I just wanted to present another option that would be all right with me. I like the role for Vors, it would eventually mean that he would carry out capital punishments. I think the role mainly centres on the justice system after a judge has sentenced someone, i.e. prisons, escapees and the public feeling of adequate sentencing.
As far as the kobold's thing goes, I'm tempted to say that a semi autonomous vassal state seems to work best. We protect them against the surrounding human lands, give them full citizenship and then can rule their own lands and maybe 1 hex around it as they wish with some details (How beholden to us are they? Do they make their own laws? Do they have input in our laws? etc) to be worked out. Who knows, maybe they'll be content if we form a...
The kobolds are willing to join either as part of your kingdom or as a vassal state. If you start making laws that they disagree with I'll deal with it more In Play or possibly through choosing an appropriate kingdom event to occur. If you make them into a seperate nation they would be more interested in expanding east towards the mountains then towards the Lake.
Have added Mage's Guild tab to the description. Good Job! I like.
How many NPCs do we have for roles actually?
NPC's possible for leadership. Position in parenthesis is a desired position, no diplomacy roll neccessary, otherwise will take diplomacy to convince them to take a position. Also this has no bearing as to whether the person is actually good at job or trustworthy.
BACK AT OLEGS
Jhod Kavknen (None) Wis 18
Kesten Garess (Warden)Str 17
Oleg Leveton (Treasurer) Wis 15, 5 ranks p/Merchant
Svetlana Leveton (None) Cha 15
BACK AT SOOTSCALES
Chief Sootscale (Ruler or Viceroy) DEX 17, CHA 14
Terquail (None) DEX 16
WITH THE PARTY
Ben (None) Str 13, DEX 13, CON 12
Akiros (None) STR 14, CHA 15
Nakpik (Spymaster)DEX 15, CHA 14