KC's Age of Worms

Game Master Kobold Catgirl

Reminded of their disguises, Tanith gives another *woof* should any non-devils be watching somehow.

"Yes, it really is a shame about those illusions." Mara gives an insincere shrug. "I do like dogs. They have such...structure to their behavior."

Spellcraft: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (4) + 12 = 16

Carina just keeps her mouth shut and focuses on breathing.

"What, are we trespassing or something? If we're surrendering, what happens now?"

"Our group goes free, save for myself, who will be imprisoned in an antimagic cell in the Aerie as security. The six of you better not get me executed, or I will totally reincarnate as a full rakshasa and make you miserable." Zalamandra gestures back-handedly to the Angels. "No more attacking the Alhaster government, is the main thing. And yes, this cellar is apparently restricted ground, and we will not be able to return and continue our investigation here."

"I don't know what happened upstairs, either . . ."

"What!" Astraden says as she stumbles downstairs, wildly pinwheeling her free hand to clear the webs. "Someone knocking my illusions and or tactical ability?" She glares, gritting her teeth when she spots the erinyes so close to the wounded Zalamandra and Carina. "Does this 'surrender' let us heal our party, or . . .?"

Carina weakly nods.

Astraden channels positive energy, which washes over both parties to heal their wounds.

Healing: 7d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 1, 1, 3, 4, 3) = 20 [4/7] [89/94]

Carina takes a sudden, sharp gasp of air as some of her bloodiest wounds heal somewhat. With her newfound strength, she pulls a golden syringe from her belt and rams it into her own neck.

Breath of Life: 5d8 + 12 ⇒ (7, 2, 7, 8, 4) + 12 = 40

Her blue colour floods back into her cheeks as her wounds close up greatly.

"Oh... my heavens, that was horrible."

Er, the erinyes did explicitly tell Carina and her group that healing would only be allowed when everyone had exited the building (they didn't want the party to try anything). But we can assume the party has left by now.

Now that the part is outside, Mara puts a hand on Zalamandra's shoulder. "We will be in contact. Is there anything else you would like to say?"

Cuetzpalli looks about as happy as a cat in a bucket of cold water. He glares at the erynies, growling quietly to himself and grinding his teeth. He stays quiet, not trusting himself to open his mouth without making the situation worse.

Astraden gives a wave she looks terribly unenthusiastic about. "If you hurt even another hair on her head, I'm bringing this city down. You can tell your boss that Astraden Limhaare knows how to create anarchy."

"She means figuratively. Figuratively creating anarchy," Zalamandra tells Mara.

Bluff (silver tongue): 1d20 + 17 + 2 + 5 ⇒ (12) + 17 + 2 + 5 = 36 +1 if Mara could be attracted to her

"Yes, it's all figurative. Just like Zalamandra volunteered to be their token prisoner, in spite of the fact that someone else did the stuff she's being arrested for, so you could say she's just a figurative criminal..." Eben chimes, in staring very intently at Astraden.

Auto-aid another for +2 to Zalamandra's Bluff.

Sense Motives: 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (17) + 18 = 351d20 + 18 ⇒ (18) + 18 = 361d20 + 18 ⇒ (18) + 18 = 36

The devils pause, eyeing Astraden skeptically. After a moment, they seem mollified by Zalamandra's explanation. Mara walks around behind Zalamandra, and the erinyes briefly binds her before picking her up and taking off into the air. The other Blessed Angels flap their wings and fly after. Only one lingers—one of the reinforcements, Spiny's Six is pretty sure, though it's hard to tell, as they're all identical. She gives a dull smile that does not reach her eyes. "We will return within five minutes. Do not return to the premises, or there will be harsher penalties in due course. We will contact you with more information...promptly."

With an unpleasant ringing sound, she vanishes.

Sense Motive: 1d20 + 15 + 2 - 1 ⇒ (7) + 15 + 2 - 1 = 23

Carina blinks.

...I hope Zalamandra's going to be okay...

Sense Motive: 1d20 + 9 + 2 ⇒ (1) + 9 + 2 = 12

"Hey, anything I did was in defense of others!" Astraden says. "You on their side, Eben?"

"C'mon, we can argue somewhere else. Let's get out of this midden." Cuetzpalli begins walking away from the building shaking his head in frustration.

Astraden climbs the stairs and surveys the devastation. "Evil. F&&$ers." She turns to Carina. "We're still going to help these people. I don't know if we can spare the money to raise those who the Blessed Angels killed, but we can definitely heal those still alive. Tanith and Farrukh, could you carry some of these folks outside of the house so we don't have to 'break the law' to come back and heal them?"

"No, of course I'm not on the side of devils from HELL. Look, it was a delicate situation and your normal 'F$%~ your authority' response was not gonna help. I'm not happy about Zal being taken either, but better that than her- and Carina, and possibly more- dead. The fact is, the evil f%%&ers run this town, and we're here to get information to save the world. We don't have the luxury of starting another revolution, Astraden. Maybe we can do something about this city later, but right now pissing off the devil ladies that pass for law enforcement isn't gonna help us. For starters, I really wanted to see what if anything the Triad had hidden down that damn pit, and now it's probably gonna be watched day and night. In addition to getting Zal out because she's our friend and took a hit for us, she can probably teleport us in past any guards. But that's not gonna be til after we resolve this."

"I can teleport us too. It's just less flexible," Astraden replies with a frown. "But I'm worried about Zalamandra, so maybe playing nice is what we need right now. Don't like that she's out of our reach like this now. She's not all that tough."

Farrukh only speaks up after the Angels are gone, making full use of his right to remain silent.

"So what did you even do, anyway? I imagine you had a good reason to pick a fight with the cops. Probably. But the stuff we found down there seemed to point to something really important. It's jut...really bad timing."

"...Farrukh, do you remember that old woman that panicked and ran away when we tried to get into the house?" Carina clears her throat. "Apparently, the Angels came to investigate her, since she was making so much of a ruckus."

"And they were going to take back to the Aerie and/or kill her and the hobgoblin we healed. Either way, it was people getting f%##ed with for something we caused, so I tried to trick them into leaving the hobgoblin etc alone. But of course they could see through illusions. And apparently using those are a crime here."

"No, of course I'm not on the side of devils from HELL. Look, it was a delicate situation and your normal 'F@@& your authority' response was not gonna help. I'm not happy about Zal being taken either, but better that than her- and Carina, and possibly more- dead. The fact is, the evil f*+#ers run this town, and we're here to get information to save the world. We don't have the luxury of starting another revolution, Astraden. Maybe we can do something about this city later, but right now pissing off the devil ladies that pass for law enforcement isn't gonna help us. For starters, I really wanted to see what if anything the Triad had hidden down that damn pit, and now it's probably gonna be watched day and night. In addition to getting Zal out because she's our friend and took a hit for us, she can probably teleport us in past any guards. But that's not gonna be til after we resolve this."

"Wait, you're saying we can't save the whole world? Bah! I thought that's what why I came back to this stinking shit-pebble called Oearth."

"And they were going to take back to the Aerie and/or kill her and the hobgoblin we healed. Either way, it was people getting f%$!ed with for something we caused, so I tried to trick them into leaving the hobgoblin etc alone. But of course they could see through illusions. And apparently using those are a crime here."

Cuetzpalli pats her on the shoulder. "Oh. That makes sense I guess. Don't blame yourself, you couldn't have known that. You were just trying to do the right thing."

The gears keep turning in Carina's head as the party takes stock of their situation. There were still sickly innocent people inside, and they certainly weren't going to get the treatment they needed so long as the Angels were about.

By the same token, the Angels themselves were much more of a threat than she gave them credit for. They caught them unawares and separated, and managed to triumph in that regard alone. Not to mention that they were the real law of this... cesspit of a city. Her bombs didn't seem to do much against them--her force bombs didn't do enough to bring down even a heavily wounded one before she brushed with Nerull again. They were evil. Self-admittedly, even.

So, what can I do to even the odds when we come into conflict again?

She looks between Astraden and Tanith, an idea taking shape in her head. If we got bombarded with unholy magic... hmm. I need to write this down when we're back at the Deluxury.

Alright, you guys have roughly 5-10 minutes before the Angels return to the house. Do you want to risk using that time to try to achieve something?

"So, I know it's a risky prospect, but do you guys want to see if we can slip back in there without getting seen before we get back? This may be the last chance we get, and if we stick together and they come at us again me might actually be able to fight them off. The only reason they had the upper hand in this little tussle is because we were split up and nobody knew what was going on. There's only twelve of them total, so if we kill them all it might make the city better anyway."

"I mostly just want a good look at that basement though. I have a bad feeling about it. Like 'catacombs under the Greyhawk arena' bad." Farrukh whisper-barks to his compatriots.

"Dude, they've got us by the hangers. I do not want Zalamandra getting killed and soul-trapped for a hunch that turns out to be wrong. We can come back after the feast, and hopefully whatever's down that pit will still, in fact, be down there. I'll scry daily and see if the Angels are up to anything." Astraden kneels down and rolls one of the smaller sick people onto her shoulders, then slowly gets to her feet. "Plus, going down there and investigating wouldn't give us any chance to get these people out of there and into a place where Carina and I can work on them."

Cuetzpalli nods. "We can't risk Zal." Following Astraden's lead he grabs another invalid on the way out.

Alright, so as a recap: It is the 4th of Harvester. The night of the 5th (tomorrow night), Eben purchased tickets for everyone to attend Miomay's Playhouse.

For the 6th, you made plans to help Ms. Crumm, owner of Patchwork, look after her kids while she tailored your garments. Afterwards, you'd go to get makeup and "prosthetics" done by Ril Shimeise, the gnome from the Playhouse. That night, you'd be heading off to Zeech's Banquet.

These plans might have changed now.

What are you going to do for the rest of the day?

Astraden sets down her load and considers. Then she goes back inside and spends the rest of her reserves healing the sick folks. She also grabs the bodies of the deceased and asks Tanith to stow them in the bag of holding for a few hours before burial.

That's 7 heal spells. Even if all the remaining living people are sick, that should get all of them.

She points back west towards the temple district. "I want to give a proper burial to the people who got killed. Olidammaran funeral practices aren't the most complex, but I'll need a few bottles of wine to perform them properly. Might be able to use the boneyard of the Kordians? Anyone who wants to come is welcome," she tells the party and the assembled new non-invalids. "Unless you think your 'caretaker' will handle the burials herself."

If the hobgoblin is in sight after the kerfuffle, Astraden tracks her down. "Sorry for getting you in harm's way. I had no idea the police would respond so quickly."

APs [11/11]
Spells prepared tonight:

• 0-level (4) create water, detect magic, read magic, stabilize
• 1st-level (4+1+D) disguise self (D), shield of faith, shield of faith, shield of faith, --, --
• 2nd-level (4+1+D) bear's endurance, bear's endurance, invisibility (D), owl's wisdom, spiritual weapon, zone of truth
• 3rd-level (4+1+D) communal resist energy, dispel magic, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, nondetection (D), stone shape
• 4th-level (4+1+D) - chaos hammer (D), death ward, death ward, greater magic weapon, --
• 5th-level (3) - communal air walk, scrying, --
• 6th-level (2) - heal, word of recall (centered on All-Seeing Eye)
• 7th-level (1) - summon monster vii

The night of the 4th, Astraden prepares her silver mirror and spends a long time chanting before eventually trying to pull up Mara's image.

Casting scrying DC 19.

Farrukh will help however he's able, even if that's just carrying corpses.

Tanith shakes his head at Astraden's question. "We could go back and ask their high priest but I don't think he's going to be much help. 'Help' in general is in short supply here."

I shuffled Tanith's prepped spells too:
. . 4th—death ward (2)
. . 3rd—communal align weapon (2), channel vigor (2), wind wall
. . 2nd—bear's endurance, ironskin (3), shield other
. . 1st—bless, divine favor (3), endure elements, remove fear
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect poison, guidance, light, vigor

Astraden sets down her load and considers. Then she goes back inside and spends the rest of her reserves healing the sick folks. She also grabs the bodies of the deceased and asks Tanith to stow them in the bag of holding for a few hours before burial.

That's 7 heal spells. Even if all the remaining living people are sick, that should get all of them.

She points back west towards the temple district. "I want to give a proper burial to the people who got killed. Olidammaran funeral practices aren't the most complex, but I'll need a few bottles of wine to perform them properly. Might be able to use the boneyard of the Kordians? Anyone who wants to come is welcome," she tells the party and the assembled new non-invalids. "Unless you think your 'caretaker' will handle the burials herself."

"Poor old Furpotia never handles the burials," says an old one-legged half-orc, shaking his head. "She still thinks Prince Zeech will be sending in a shipment of remove disease potions any day now. An acolyte of Wee Jas collects us corpses every few days."

If the hobgoblin is in sight after the kerfuffle, Astraden tracks her down. "Sorry for getting you in harm's way. I had no idea the police would respond so quickly."

"I didn't, either," the hobgoblin says bitterly. "Wish we could've talked our way out of it, but, hey, guess things worked out okay for your lot. I guess anyone who can manage illusions that strong probably has some tricks up her sleeves." She grasps Astraden's hand and shakes it roughly. "Name's Caul. My family and I owe you and your weird bastards a debt. If you ever need a shitton of street helpers who can get work done quick, stop by the Shipping Concern and ask for Mudmouth."

With this, she takes her leave, presumably eager to exercise her new lease on life.

By the way, fun fact: Caul, and Caul alone, rolled a nat 20 on her Will save. From the moment Asraden and Carina healed her, she was seeing you all for exactly who you were, and she makes that obvious when Astraden tracks her down.

Oops, I forgot I wanted to prepare dimensional anchor too. That'll be my last 4th-level spell prepared.

"Thanks for the help, Farrukh," Astraden says as she staggers under the burden of one of the other corpses and shoves it into the mouth of the bag.

Astraden frowns at the description of Furpotia's "planning." "Doesn't sound like she really gave y'all the care you needed. Well, we'll head to the temple district anyways. Worth asking that acolyte of Kord, Selvinne or whatever her name was, before we go to the Jasidians."

Caul:

"We'll call on you if we need help, but goodbye for now. Thanks Caul." Astraden waves the hobgoblin off.

On the walk to the churches:

Astraden comes up alongside Carina. "Do you have any scrying prevention spells in your formula book yet? I was just thinking - I can only cast Olidammara's Observation Obfuscation* once per day, and it only lasts half a day at that. But if I make a scroll of it, you could copy it into your book and make us extracts of it, yeah?" Astraden turns out her pockets. "The only problem is, I've gotta save my money for the damn dresses and shit. So we'd need to take the scroll-making materials out of your money, or see if Tanith's got anything in his party stash. Or 'earn' it somehow."

*Nondetection

Carina shakes her head at Astraden. "Nope. A scroll of scrying prevention would go nicely with my other stuff."

"Also, I wanted to ask your--and Tanith's--opinion on something. I've got an idea for my bombs. Specifically, tailoring them to more effectively fight those Blessed Angels when we run into them again."

"I'll help in anyway I can. What'd you have in mind Red? Bigger bombs? Bombs with rocks in them?" Tanith asks helpfully.

"Well..." The undine digs out her formula book and flips to a page detailing her bombs. "...I'm thinking of trying to harness Olidammara's mutable power or Kord's holy might in my bombs. Between you and Astraden, I think I might be able to concoct one of such a type in the near future--I'd need both of your help in imbuing the mixture with divine energy."

"I'd be able to help as well. Olidammara can grant holy might, too. It's just, well, not his."

Need 187.5 gp for the scroll of nondetection (Astraden has diamond dust for it). How much can we scrape together?

Have we picked up any loot since the last payout? Tanith has some spare coin if Astraden is strapped for cash.

Edit: Oh, I missed that this was for Carina's formula book. Yeah, Tanith can cover it.

"In that case, holy might would work better than chaotic power, I think. I'll have to work on this a bit more--definitely not so long as we've got this whole party thing hanging over our heads."

Astraden frowns at the description of Furpotia's "planning." "Doesn't sound like she really gave y'all the care you needed."

"Her mind was gone. Has been for years." The half-orc shrugs. "Was nice to have a roof above our heads while we died, though."

"You know I'll give you all the holy might you can handle", Tanith says with a smirk. "Speaking of the party, should we be trying to learn what's going down and who's going to be there? I know we're only going to get an audience with Lashonna but there might others there with information we can use or maybe make things easier for us to move around the city without the Angels coming down on us every time we wander someplace we're not supposed to be."

"This sounds like the kind of thing Eben usually does?" the big Kordite says in retrospect.

"Yeah, we might. With this kind of bureaucracy you can usually get whatever you want, eventually. Problem is all the paperwork and red tape and licenses and bribes."

"Great." Carina gives Tanith a mock eyeroll and a little smile. "Always happy to hear it, honey."

"And maybe you could help me with my bomb creation as well?"

"You've got it Red."

I know Eben is busyish with his camping trip. Can we assume he spends some time gathering information on this party and those attending or did he have other plans for the rest of the day?

Was Farrukh still planning on sneaking back into that basement? I'm not sure what kind of support the rest of us can offer since the angels see through magical methods of concealment.

Congrats, everyone! You made it. I hated to have to make the selection, but I'm very pleased with who we got.

Roster:
Rynjin (Farrukh Al'Khatel, Human Slayer)
Dragoncat (Carina Viera, Tiefling Alchemist)
Feral (Tanith, Human Warpriest)
GM Jelani (Cuetzpalli, Human Barbarian)
Gark (Erip, Dwarf Necromancer)
Draconic Cow (Robin O'Haranson, Human Hunter)

Now, to remind everyone, here's the adventure's setup: There are three adventurers in town from the Free City. Staying at the Emporium, these adventurers have made no secret of their intentions to raid the Stirgenest Cairn—an area known to any native of Diamond Lake to be completely barren.

However, another cairn was rediscovered ten years ago by a Diamond Lake teenager. Called the Whispering Cairn for the strange noises heard within, the secret of its location was held as a dear secret by the youths of the town. They dared each other to spend a night within its depths, using the place as a test of mettle. These visits tapered off about six years ago, when a local girl vanished while sleeping there.

The Whispering Cairn is the last of its kind at Diamond Lake: the last cairn left unexplored. The last expedition was sixty years ago, and it failed miserably. Hopefully, you'll do better.

One of you (perhaps Farrukh) has decided to take advantage of this opportunity while it lasts. He might have recruited Tanith as someone who would know about the Cairn's existence, and the others could have followed through associations and chance encounters.

Again, congrats. I will be trying to post the IC thread within the week. I don't know about you, but I'm really looking forward to it. :)

Greetings everyone!

I'll get this alias updated tonight. When did you want to start?

Gark is going to be in Sweden, so we'll be starting at Monday at the earliest.

Ah, plenty of time to fiddle with crunch then.

Do you mind opening the gameplay thread for dotting purposes so it'll start showing up in our campaign summaries?

A red-skinned, petite brunette with pointed ears and a tail walks into the thread.

"Someone call for the doctor?"

Glad to be here!

Honestly, I'd rather wait until we officially start before making the Gameplay thread.

Understood.

Kobold are you of the opinion that stuff that improves unarmed strikes improves grappling?

Can you give an example?

In this case, warpriest is considered full BaB for weapons they have weapon focus in. If Tanith takes weapon focus (unarmed strike) will his grapple checks be full BaB or do I specifically have to take weapon focus (grapple)?

The reason this is an issue is because Paizo has been negligent is clarifying the issue. If you take weapon focus (longsword) and you use your sword to trip someone, you get to take advantage of your weapon focus. The question is if grappling is considered an extension of unarmed strikes.

Hm. In this case, as there don't appear to be any feats to drop in here, I'll rule that you can treat your total Hit Dice as your base attack bonus when calculating your CMB, though only for grappling. Wrestling is Kord's main shtick, after all.

EDIT: Grappling and unarmed strikes aren't meant to be the same thing, though, so Weapon Focus doesn't apply. That's what Improved Grapple is for. ;D

I'm going to get that too. =P

Farrukh, ready to go I think.

I have to say, building this guy, Slayer may be my new favorite martial character. He's so versatile build-wise, sort of. Lots of Feats (if you want them), trap disabling stuff, semi-Smite.

Doesn't have the AWESOME COSMIC POWER of the Barbarian, but I like him better than the Ranger. He has what I like from the Ranger (Combat Style Feats, tracking ability, Favored Enemy, sort of, and Favored Terrain, also sort of since you need to pick it), without the stuff I'm not too fond of (Animal Companion and the Ranger's spells).

It definitely is nice to finally have an official "spell-less ranger".

My only gripe about him (that seemed to have been heard during the playtest, so I expect it to be remedied) is that the list of unique Slayer Talents is very slim. There's a Slayer talent to gain many class abilities from the Rogue or Ranger (can take Rogue Talents in place of them, Combat Style, Favored Terrain, Trapfinding, etc.), but the only unique ones are Slowing Strike, Deadly Range, and Foil Scrutiny.

But other than that? Awesome possum.

Farrukh looks good, though it'd be nice to have his backstory up on the profile. :P

Also, everyone, make sure to mark your Action Points off somewhere--I notice Carina and Erip have, but everyone else is still missing them. It's handy to put them with HP in the "Classes/Levels" bar, if you're using the default statblock, as that makes them somewhat more convenient to access.

Oh, and just because Gark has been pestering me about it off-forum: Yes, I realize the traits aren't perfectly balanced. I'll make sure to throw in a leech swarm or five to balance it out.

Yeah, that's what I get for using PCGen...

I used Adopted to get World Traveler, a human race trait.

Erip's memory of the last 20-30 years is still a little hazy, but he's here.

Thanks for the pick, I'm ready to rumble.

Edit:I guess I should scour the avatars for something vaguely Aztec/Mayan looking...but I hate when the avatar doesn't match what the character looks like.

Tanith's ready to go.

I'll go over Erip's and Cuetzpalli's later.

In the meantime, you guys might want to start discussing how you each got roped into this adventure. I suggested Farrukh be the initiator, since he's the one who arrived with an interest in cairn desecration, but feel free to decide for yourselves. As long as someone goes to rob some dead guy's tomb, I'm cool with anything. ;D

Erip would be a ready recruit for such an adventure - he's kind of tired of being the henchman. He might have heard about the plan while gossiping outside the general store; alternatively, if Farrukh visits Allustan to ask about the cairns, Erip might intercept and offer his own knowledge (and access to the library) for free, as long as he gets to tag along.

Maybe Wierus heard about the venture, and he wanted a representative of his flock involved, so he dispatched Cuetzpalli to aid Farrukh.

** spoiler omitted **

Tanith is a local who certainly would have heard of the cairn as a bit of an urban legend. He's been trying to get away from the mines and Balabar Smenk for a couple years now. Some honest coin as a guide to intrepid explorers sounds like a good reason to meet up to me.

Edit: Damn it Cosmo!

Ah, half level things are normally minimum 1 in Pathfinder, I was assuming this was the same.

Erip would be a ready recruit for such an adventure - he's kind of tired of being the henchman. He might have heard about the plan while gossiping outside the general store; alternatively, if Farrukh visits Allustan to ask about the cairns, Erip might intercept and offer his own knowledge (and access to the library) for free, as long as he gets to tag along.

Ooh, I like that idea. Forgot Allustan was a guy.

Seems like the only real course of action for finding info on the cairns around here, and Farrukh's no idiot.

There is also the cartographer at the Garrison, but he's only really accessible if people work there. Otherwise, some sort of covert operation would be required. Had there been no apprentice to Allustan, that might have been the route the game had taken. Anyways, it's all moot.

And yeah, Cuetzpalli, half level things often break the general "always round down" rule. Action Points are one of the exceptions to that exception, though. ;D

Carina probably wouldn't initiate this on her own, but she'd be eager to go along with it, if only to get out of town for a few days. Constant pestering from Zalamandra to join the Emporium will do that to a person.

Still, she's going to have to let her mother know where she's going; don't want her to worry too much, after all. ;)

I'm liking the party thus far.

My only concern is that the front line is going to get crowded at times. We're looking at 3-4 melee characters plus an animal companion that's going to potentially become large later on. Cuetzpalli, will you be heartbroken if Spiny has to be benched on occasion?

Robin will also have a horse, though he may generally ride it.

I wouldn't worry too much. This is The Whispering Cairn, after all, and you'll be glad of the extra manpower soon enough.

I'm more worried about the long term. I've been through too many PFS scenarios where folks had to sit out because the ranger insisted on his animal companion fighting. =(

Trust me, it only gets harder. Especially as I'll be adjusting for the larger party. The idea is to challenge the PCs, and if people are sitting out, I'm doing something wrong.

This ain't PFS. If modifications are needed, they get made. ;D

Well it’s usually not a matter of sitting out because things are too easy. The problem is usually more a matter of space (only 3 melee spaces and the animal companion is taking up 2). I’m also anxious about the ever creeping Deos theory.

But I’m willing to trust you… for now. =P

I'm not sure I totally agree with your theory (was tricky looking it up, since there's a guy named Deos on these forums), but that's beside the point. :P

There are six melee spaces, not accounting for size (and size only comes up if the creature both lacks reach and isn't fighting from a corner). And that's assuming you're facing only one enemy, which will be pretty rare in a six-man party game.

If it becomes an issue, adjustments will be made, but forcing someone to have one of their class features "sit out" a combat is an absolute last resort.

In short, the Deos theory refers to the problem where a DM has to scale things to challenge a specific character and indirectly invalidates or steamrolls other characters as collateral damage. I’m not saying that’s going to happen here. It’s just something that comes to mind when I see especially vicious animal companions. =)

An enemy in an open space isn’t usually a problem. The space concern is more a problem in dungeons or other tight corridors. For example, in my Rise game, there’s three melee and the party is currently fighting ogres in 10-foot wide hallways. One of the melee is already stuck sitting out on occasion. I’d feel bad if he was sitting out because someone’s class feature was occupying that space.

I bring it up only to help us plan for the future. If he’s especially attached to having Spiny around all the time, we can compensate by having a few of us pick up reach and/or dedicated ranged weapons early on (as an example).

Ah, I see what you're saying. That theory's not half bad, then, though since everyone here is fairly optimized, I doubt it'll be an issue.

Fortunately, the Whispering Cairn is a pretty wide dungeon. So space-wise, there should be no problem. I won't say anything more about that, though.

As a random example, at level one Spiny does ~27 damage on a full attack. To compensate, the DM triples all monster HPs. Suddenly, the party rogue (sneak attacking with a rapier for ~7-8 damage per round) comparatively does little more than scratch the monsters now.

That’s the Deos theory at work. I don’t think we actually even have a rogue. =P

No rogue? Like I said, it's an optimized party. ;D

Also, on a full attack, that estimate assumes Spiny hits on all three attacks. With Power Attack, that's a rather generous estimate.

Regardless, Spiny and Cuetzpalli (especially Spiny) are supposed to be the best damage dealers. If a warpriest, hunter or slayer (secondary melee classes) could do more damage in a fight than a barbarian, there's something terribly wrong going on. ;D

EDIT: Couple things: First, Spiny's bite damage hasn't yet been adjusted for the replacement of Improved Natural Attack.

Second, Feral, make sure to fix your Flat-Footed AC.

My AC goes up when I'm flatfooted! (Also, fixed. =P)

There's the the best damage and then there's so much damage that the others aren't really even there. But I don't think the latter will be a problem.

There's the the best damage and then there's so much damage that the others aren't really even there. But I don't think the latter will be a problem.

Agreed. If it is, it's a very easy problem to rectify. Spiny may be a good melee fighter, but he's only a melee fighter--spinosauruses don't even get Scent, and that Will Save's not pretty.

If those weaknesses start to taper off as time goes on, it'll be more of an issue, but for now, it's just a barbarian with a crazy DPR. You've seen one, you've seen 'em all. ;D

Since we're just theorycrafting, what kind of encounters would you throw at us that could challenge Spiny without steamrolling or frustrating the rest of the party? This kind of problem is always a fun DMing challenge.

It is, but I'm not sure I want to share the ideas I have, because some of them may happen. :P

One of the more generic solutions, however , is a "swarm". A large number of weak enemies allows Spiny to use his full attacking skills and do the majority of the fighting, but still leaves room for other characters to shine (especially the alchemist, since lots of weak enemies = bomb fodder).

Just trust me here--the gap is not that large. Even without me making modifications, I can think of one particular module in the AP where Spiny is not going to have fun times.

Spiny will probably fall off pretty quick. By 4th or 5th (or definitely 6th) you'll be wondering why you ever even worried in the first place, as the rest of us level up, get more HP, BaB, Feats, and especially gear.

He'll become competitive again around 7th when he gets his size boost and attribute bonuses, and then by 9th he'll have peaked and be exactly what he was supposed to be to begin with, an added bonus to the class.

He's actually not even technically as good as a 2H Barbarian at 1st level now anyway. Raging Power Attacks can hit 2d6+15 easy at 1st level. Minimum damage of 17, on a single hit, more than enough to obliterate most 1st and 2nd level creatures, leaving Spiny's "Slightly more damage IF I hit all of them" largely irrelevant, since the thing's dead either way.

We'll be glad of the extra body on the field for now considering how squishy 1st and 2nd level characters are.

Heh. I suppose I’m gun-shy because PFS mostly happens around those sweet spots where animal companions are at their peak and I’ve played with too many inconsiderate players. I also see too many DM Advice threads that involve punishing the rest of the party because of an overly powerful character.

Problem: “The barbarian one-rounds everything.”

Solution: “Use lots of flying enemies!”

The Reality: That hurts all the melee.

Problem: “The fighter’s AC is too high.”

Solution: “Use lots of incorporeal enemies with touch attacks!”

The Reality: That hurts everyone.

Problem: “The wizard’s spell DCs are too high.”

Solution: “Boost everything’s saving throws!”

The Reality: Now the monk’s stunning fist never lands.

I trust KC to handle things in a graceful manner that manages Spiny without marginalizing the rest of the melee.

Character's been fully updated.

Now with her progression plan!

Problem: “The wizard’s spell DCs are too high.”

Solution: “Boost everything’s saving throws!”

The Reality: Now the monk’s stunning fist never lands.

Well to be fair Stunning Fist never works anyway, so small loss. =)

In my experience it works just fine. =)