Yup, but also one thing that you're missing, is that if you're going to get grab, now, you'll have to budget for it from some other source. And autograpples are really crazy. :)
It's ultimately about how you view things, I think. You were getting a lot of free stats (ala awakened), and a lot of free maneuvers (that would normally cost feats) with hp and such stacked on top. The animal hit dice eventually just become bonus HD, and the Magical Beast hit dice are nothing to scoff at. Or... that feels accurate to me. :)
Oh, yeah. Obviously, templates ought to be by GM permission only, since they do have the potential to change the game in unexpected ways. XD In my own games, I usually say that players need to trade in class levels equal to the CR change, with a minimum of 1, so they can't ever get them for free.
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sorry if I was unclear, but I was mostly at least partially joking
I'm not very good at building races around a theme, but I think that the mentioned templates are balanced
If I were to take the psychic it'd be telekinetic, (or maybe telepathic or pyrokenetic)
I'd really like the fey creature template
Start me as a fey creature bard 1 and I'll be fairly squishy on the HP side with one fewer HD and whatnot,
Well, that problem also redoubles back on itself. I don't want my players to be squishy. A character death can be a 'player death', in that the player has serious difficulty getting back into whatever groove they previously had. A lot of work towards legitimizing a character just goes out the window.
Likewise, Fey is scary, because it literally comes out of left field with what you develop as you level.
What are you trying to do with your 'race' side of thing via templates exactly? If I know that, I can try to give you something to work with from my end. :)
Likewise, gaining DR/Cold Iron is definitely the opposite of squishy, unless I just opt to pile money in the PC's laps. :)
Oh, yeah. Obviously, templates ought to be by GM permission only, since they do have the potential to change the game in unexpected ways. XD In my own games, I usually say that players need to trade in class levels equal to the CR change, with a minimum of 1, so they can't ever get them for free.
That's what the bestiary says to do, although it says every 3 levels, they get one class level back, up to 50% of the CR.
Level 3 : 2CR/1Level
Level 4 : 2CR/2Level
Level 5 : 2CR/3Level
Level 5.5 : 1CR/4Level
Level 6 : 1CR/5Level
...
Level 20 : 1CR/19Level
I could help with a fey race via the race builder to get what you want. Wouldn't be hard. Just need to know what you want.
I've never seen that used with templates. I had frequently seen it used with HD. I was also pretty sure that it was more every other level you gained a bonus level in between. I'm a little on the rusty side. :)
Templates adjust the CR, racial hit dice are mostly useless as level instruments, that's why 3.5 was so hosed up with 'effective character level', because you added racial HD to it, and things were way off.
Paizo's rules for Monsters as PCs, from Bestiary I
The CR includes hit dice in it's calculation. I've both run and played monstrous PCs using these rules, and they work fine up to CR 3. CR 4 you have to be careful of, and beyond that it breaks down.
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Well, that problem also redoubles back on itself. I don't want my players to be squishy. A character death can be a 'player death', in that the player has serious difficulty getting back into whatever groove they previously had. A lot of work towards legitimizing a character just goes out the window.
Likewise, Fey is scary, because it literally comes out of left field with what you develop as you level.
What are you trying to do with your 'race' side of thing via templates exactly? If I know that, I can try to give you something to work with from my end. :)
Likewise, gaining DR/Cold Iron is definitely the opposite of squishy, unless I just opt to pile money in the PC's laps. :)
if you want I could get each bonus ability approved every four levels ahead of time to make sure they make sense
As to what I want, I like the whole fey prankster kinda thing, but I don't like being small size, if I'm playing as a fey it'd be weird not to have vulnerability to cold iron, (if you want as a minor extra balancing factor I could take +1 damage from cold iron sources on top of bypassing DR) dragonfly wings are cool and I'm going for a caster-y feel but I'm not playing as a primary caster unless the party lacks one
Party Rundown (so Far):
Air Melee Kineticist
Slightly Modded Mesmerist (Cult Master sans the extremely creepy stuff)
Cleaner Slayer Kittiface
Hellknight-to-be Inquisitor
Evangelist Cleric of Milani or Shelyn
Pierce
Hecate
Other than the wings, you can totally get the 'fey trickster' vibe from being a Kitsune. :) Likewise, I'd prefer to avoid flight until higher levels (when you could feasibly get flight from a class, rather than just having the inborn ability to ignore all reasonable barriers). You can get cold iron vulnerability from traits or feats, if I remember right.
I could totally see Vestigial Wings (from Tiefling) if you're just in it for the dragonfly. :)
2 RP: Low Light Vision (Required by Fey)
2 RP: Flexible (+2 Dex, Cha)
2 RP: +2 Bluff.
3 RP: Change Shape, Lesser (Take one 'human' form. +10 Disguise to appear of that race.)
2 or 3 RP: 2RP: +4 Fly. 3RP: Permanent Feather Fall, and Glide 5 feet for every 1 feet you fall, fall maximum of twelve feet per round. No fall damage, cannot gain lift.
How does that work for a basic set up? 11/12 RP race, puts it above humans in power, and nothing is really wasted at all. The skill bonus can be moved to something other than bluff, but that aids in 'trickstering'.
Half Fey alternative, if you want a more elemental type fey/human hybrid (
Type 2RP : Fey (Human, Fey)
Size : Medium
Speed : 30 ft
Stats : Human Heritage (+2 any one stat)
Standard Language : Start with Common, May learn with high Int : Any Human, Sylvan, Elven, Halfling, Dwarven, Gnome
Fey Damage Resistance (3 RP): Members of this race gain DR 5/cold iron.
Breeze-Kissed 4 RP : Members of this race are surrounded by swirling winds, gaining a +2 racial bonus to AC against nonmagical ranged attacks. They can calm or renew these winds as a swift action. Once per day, a member of this race can channel this wind into a single gust, making a bull rush or trip combat maneuver attempt against one creature within 30 feet. Doing so exhausts the user's breeze-kissed ability for 24 hours. This is a supernatural ability.
Vestigal Wings (2 RP) : Members of this race have wings that do not provide the lift required for actual flight, but do have enough power to aid flight attained by some other method, and grant a +4 racial bonus on Fly checks.
Flexible Bonus Feat (4 RP): Members of this race select one extra feat at 1st level.
Alternate Racial Traits :
Water-Kissed 4 RP : Members of this race gain fast healing 2 for 1 round anytime they submerge completely within a body of natural salt water, fresh water, or brackish water. Stagnant, poisoned, or trapped water (such as water within an artificial pit or a bag of holding) does not activate this ability. Members of this race can heal up to 2 hit points per level per day with this ability, after which it ceases to function. Members of this race gain a +2 bonus on all Will saving throws.
Storm-Kissed 4 RP : Members of this race gain fast healing 2 for 1 round anytime they take electricity damage (whether or not this electricity damage overcomes their electricity resistance, if any). A member of this race can heal up to 2 hit points per level per day with this ability, after which it ceases to function.Members of this race are so in tune with the air and sky they can sense the slightest change in atmospheric conditions. They can spend a full-round action to predict the weather in an area for the next 24 hours. This prediction is always accurate, but cannot account for spells or supernatural effects that might alter the forecast.
Earth-Kissed 4 RP : Sorcerer members of this race with the verdant bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities. Clerics who are members of this race with the Plant domain use their domain powers and spells at +1 caster level. This trait does not give members of this race early access to level-based powers; it only affects powers that they could already use without this trait. Members of this race gain the following supernatural ability: Once per day, a member of this race can will the earth to rumble and shift, transforming a 10-foot-radius patch of earth, unworked stone, or sand into an area of difficult terrain centered on a square it can touch. This lasts for a number of minutes equal to the user's level, after which the ground returns to normal.
Gliding Wings (3 RP): Members of this race take no damage from falling (as if subject to a constant nonmagical feather fall spell). While in midair, members of this race can move up to 5 feet in any horizontal direction for every 1 foot they fall, at a speed of 60 feet per round. A member of a race with gliding wings cannot gain height with these wings alone; it merely coasts in other directions as it falls. If subjected to a strong wind or any other effect that causes a creature with gliding wings to rise, it can take advantage of the updraft to increase the distance it can glide. (Replaces Vestigal Wings & Fey Resistance)
I'm not okay with the DR is my only concern. Later on, it won't exist, but to start, it basically doubles a health pool, unless I add in attacks that can kill the other players. Otherwise I like the fey-elemental hybrid concept. :)
Basically, without the DR, it's still a 12 RP race. It basically trades Human 'Skilled' for Low light vision, element-kissed, and wingy stuff.
If it was a fighter, it might be an issue. But a trickster? Please, he'll have like 8 HP at most. :)
And you could always rule as capped by HD, so 1/cold iron at 1st, 2/cold iron at 2nd, etc.
On that note... what do you have against just using the Fey traits for the normal races that were recently released?
Human Version:
Fey Magic + Senses + Thoughts: The character has a mystic connection to one terrain type, selected from the ranger's favored terrain list. The character selects three 0-level druid spells and one 1st-level druid spell. If the character has a Charisma score of 11 or higher, when in the selected terrain, she gains these spells as spell-like abilities that can be cast once per day. The caster level for these effects is equal to the user's character level. The DC for the spell-like abilities is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the user's Charisma modifier. These spells are treated as being from a fey source for the purposes of the druid's resist nature's lure class feature and similar abilities. In addition, select two of the following skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Knowledge (nature), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, or Use Magic Device. The selected skills are always class skills for the character. Lastly, the human also gains low-light vision. This trait replaces skilled. Source: HotW
@Kittyface: I just don't think the DR is necessary, and I don't really like it being there.
Meanwhile: 15 RP is a -lot-. Especially when it's nothing but goodies. I'm factoring in that you wind up with un-rated weaknesses that are worth at least 2 RP with the Scath setup.
Aasimar weigh in at 15.
Anyway, just tossing out possibilities. Not sure what HotW, don't have it.
Heart of the Wild. :) My friend buys like... every other book, seemingly at random. That was one of them.
Likewise, Aasimar isn't going to just wind up with things you care about. Generally 2-5 RP unless the stars align. And then -awesome-. :)
I somehow completely forgot about my favorite race as soon as people started talking about custom races, while it would be more fun to spend my first level on the template, I think I'll be fine with a kitsune
derp
I think I'll reuse this alias,
Be nice to see Michel in a game that's not quite so falling apart at the seams.
Emphasis on "seams". Reality in this game didn't seem too stable. XD
I'm still trying to figure out my idea. How many players are you looking to have in the game?
Well, at the moment we have 7, and I turned away Numbers 8 and 9. :p
I was intending to get 6. So when I asked in the other campaign that had mostly said they were tired of getting new campaigns, I was surprised with how many bites I got. :)
In that case, I might just pull out. I generally prefer to cap games at three players - maaaaaaaybe four - because anything else simply runs too slowly for my tastes. Generally speaking, the more players there are, the higher the chances of failure.
Alrighty, that is perfectly fine by me. :)
I was stressing over the huge number of 7. Weird, huh?
I think overall I'm happy with the group as it is.
@Kitsuneface: There's an evangelist cleric who will have some bardic performance stuff, if you're hoping to take another archetype; don't feel like taking normal music is -required-. :)
Well, if we'd BOTH be happier that way, sounds like a plan. XD Feel free to set me to 'Inactive' on this campaign anytime, then, and I wish you all the best of luck!
Good luck, DM who has always spurned me :p
Alrighty. I'll ask that you go ahead and check in in the other thread.
Here is another link so you don't have to dig.
Once you've checked in there, I'll move this to inactive. :)