Sorry for the delay folks. The site was down for maintenance when I tried posting last night, and it's been wonky again this morning. I'll get a post up today or this evening.
Rolen: I realized I forget to get your custom feat done. Here it is -- let me know if anything about this doesn't work. Combines part of Sharpshooter with a benefit from Crossbow Expert.
Deepwood Sniper
You have stalked dangerous prey through the depths of the Dim Forest; neither distance nor mortal danger disrupts your aim.
* Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
* Attacks at long range don't impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
* Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover.
Thanks, looks great!
Nice!
So now I am a little torn. And let me preface this by saying I am NOT trying to run anyone's character - would almost certainly not work anyway but... We have been told that these people are likely controlled and not acting of their own will. In some cases we can choose to kill or not kill and the short term situation is the same - they are no longer a threat. So if you do not have to kill and choose to kill then that could be argued to fall out of the realm of self defense and be considered murder, right?
Imagine that someone has broken into your home and you can pull switches to either render them unconscious or kill them. Are you ever justified in pulling the kill switch? Now add to this discussion the idea that those people that have broken into your home were forced to do so against their will. That is how Koralyn is looking at this right now. But I know part of this is the game mechanic that is not too realistic. So I am not sure how negatively she should react.
I think that you may react however you see fit as a character, in terms of how you wrestle with your individual level of morality. We, as characters, should certainly not be expected to hold the same points of view. The fact of the matter was that we were physically threatened. Attempting to do non-lethal damage to control the issue assumes that we will easily best them and not get killed in the process. They are not in control of their actions, but we need to get to the bottom of how and why that is so. I do not think we can avoid casualties when we will likely be consistently attacked in order to reach that end.
But the mechanic makes it, at least in melee, just as easy/sure to not kill as to kill. That is actually part of the problem. Anyone in melee who drops someone has the choice to spare or take the life. There is no -4 to hit like in 3.5 or Pathfinder.
Yes, but like I said, you are assuming that we are fighting something that will be easy for you to have the choice, and expecting that they would do the same for you, when for all intents and purposes, they were acting hostile regardless of motivation.
Roll-play wise in melee sure, no penalty.
Role-play wise morality is individual.
And in the hypothetical situation you'd have to take i to account that the switches are next to each other and you're trying to flip one before you are harmed.
But the mechanic makes it, at least in melee, just as easy/sure to not kill as to kill. That is actually part of the problem. Anyone in melee who drops someone has the choice to spare or take the life. There is no -4 to hit like in 3.5 or Pathfinder.
There is a meta-game aspect here as well.
You say its easy not to kill people - sure, by the rules, but Dragomir doesn't have that plugged into his head as a character. He was attacked by a screaming mob, armed, and with a priest casting some sort of snakey spell. Dragomir isn't concerned at that point at pulling punches - he's fighting for survival. That means kill.
Brett, here on this end of the keyboard, understands what you are saying and there may be situations coming up shortly - like after your character berates the party where the character itself will go "Oh, crap, yeah, maybe I could try to not kill them."
Hey folks, before we get too off the rails:
I didn't introduce the idea of charmed-and-maybe-questionably-sorta-innocent townsfolk to sow discord among you, as players, but to be (somewhat) realistic and most of all, fun. I'm not trying to foist a real ethical dilemma on you (although it might be ethical for your character) but rather a practical one: In this case, the typical murder-hobo approach to clearing the dungeon could have consequences, in roleplaying terms, when you have to explain yourself to the townsfolk.
Can you (as players and characters) justify using deadly force? Absolutely. As Rolen pointed out, several of your most reliable and effective modes of attack don't have an easy "less-lethal" mode. And in-character, the 5E-ism of striking a knockout rather than a killing blow isn't necessarily an automatic response.
I made clear during recruitment that characters with mercenary rather than heroic attitudes were welcome, and that remains the case. It is not my plan to penalize that approach, but it could create complications ... just as trying to be upstanding, non-lethal heroes creates complications.
To the extent that role-playing the friction between those approaches is fun, let's do it. If it gets to the point of not being fun, I'd rather we let it go. Sound good?
Perfect, by me.
I think I know where everyone stands. Koralyn hopes or even believes she can make others "better" People. I do not want or intent to annoy with this but she is a knight with knightly vows, etc. At some point she would stop adventuring with a group if the group continues to prove themselves remorseless murderers.
Headed out for a weekend at a con so will not be able to post much if at all. Back Monday.
I understand and am willing to RP along but your stance is very metagamey. The rules say you don't have to kill on a hit that drops a foe to 0 has so therefor there should be no killing? At all?
The reality (though that is a VERY dangerous term to use in an RPG) is combat with weapons, especially great swords tends to be lethal. If I were toting around a club I could sort of get onboard with that. I get that we don't want wholesale slaughter and support that, both in and out of character but the player in me cringes at the notion that we can fight with the expectation of 0 casualties.
My PC is simply not built that way...he is an assassin, and he kills for a living.
True but is he a sociopath? There are plenty of hitmen in stories/cinema who are capable of pulling their punches/knocking foes out.
Is every shot, irrespective of a possible need to wound or take prisoners etc, a killing shot?
He is pretty blase about his art. He is not a sociopath, but a pragmatist. Killing is a means to an end. He spent his life fulfilling contracts to make money to support his sister. The only motivation is to be the best assassin he can be so that he is hired more often at a larger fee.
In this scenario, he has an objective to find and rescue his sister. If that means helping the group at their task to get that accomplished, then he is all in. However, I cannot really see him pulling his punches because it will simply nerf his effectiveness concerning his unique skill set. If the party decides it will not attack, but a take a defensive posture when attacked, then he will accept that, but only if no one's life is threatened in the process. Not a bad option for a sniper.
Finished up a big project at work last night, but will get an update tonight when I can update the map.
Not to take sides in the argument, because the "conflict" doesn't bother me either way, but i have the following thoughts.
I see one character's holy theme, and i understand it is important for them to play that and could cause conflict.
the other character doesn't mesh well with that, and this is a welcome conflict that may require hard choices on one side or the other or both.
now, were i to play an assassin, regardless of other party members, would i not mask my identity and simply knock out sentient foes in a settlement when possible, so as to avoid any sort of situation where killing someone pisses off a certain other type of faction that settlements tend to have, this faction being one to attract tough types with armor and weapons and generally considered to be on the side of the law? I could understand killing to prevent someone from leaking my identity, or killing for pay, but minimizing your exposure is also important in the world of professional killing. hitmen don't stay out of jail long if they kill anyone they please, and people wouldn't hire a hitman known for killing indiscriminately if they think the job might go south and word get out of their own involvement. they want to minimize their exposure too, hence all the ones saying "make it look like an accident".
I like that thinking Eldramin. Makes sense.
So, Koralyn is a knight. Knights have codes of honor, duties, responsibilities, and at least in some settings legal enforcement powers. She feels responsible for everyone else's actions that are part of her team, which is a hard burden to carry. So while she is all about defending herself, this is a special case where we have been asked not to kill the mind controlled innocents. So if you go around killing the mind controlled innocents expect her to b!*%@ about it. :)
I do recognize part of the issue is the game mechanic of choosing to kill or not kill on the "killing" stroke. But that has to translate at least partially to your character having a choice in the matter, at least once its pointed out to them. lol.
I'll get a post up tomorrow. Wiped out tonight after an extended battle with a baby crib and assorted other nursery furniture.
Loving the game so far!!
Sorry for the delay, folks. Spent the last couple of nights getting caught up on prep for the imminent arrival of our new roommate/infant overlord, and ended up falling asleep on the couch with a beer instead of working up posts about deadly combat.
Which is also a good time to give warning that, sometime in the next week or two I will likely disappear for a couple of days, as we usher the aforementioned overlord out of her cozy lair and into her new domain.
it's all good, i have been busy of late as well
Congratulations, DM!
Cpngrats! Is this your first? I have forgotten.
Congrats!
Congrats! Remember those times well!
Yep, this is the the first, so entering unknown territory!
Looks like unknown territory is upon us! I'll be out of pocket for a few days but will update when I can.
Understood...enjoy every hectic moment...it passes very quickly.
Congratulations!
Grats mate!!!
Going to be away after surgery. Please DMPC me for the time being. Hope to be back on the boards soon.
How are things
DM Under a Dark Sun? Any word on when we might start back?
Things are settling down after an eventful week. Birth went fine but my wife ended up in the ICU after due to bleeding. I somehow passed an untrained skill check to make it through 36 hours of single fatherhood, and now everyone is home and doing great.
I'm finding myself with a reasonable amount of time between diaper changing, burping and laundry to post from my phone or tablet, but map manipulation is going to be more of a challenge, as it's more difficult to break free and get on the PC in my office for the necessary amount of time. So I'm probably going to go for more "theatre of the mind" style combat for the time being, with less round-by-round updating of a battle map. I should be able to get some map time in tonight or tomorrow that will carry things through for a bit, so look for a gameplay post by Monday evening.
Thanks for your patience!
Sounds great. I have been where you are. Enjoy.
Looking forward to it!
I hope everyone is ok. Take all the time you need. I have been having a lot of fun but I understand where you are right now (I have three). In any case, theatre of the mind sounds fine. I'll just have to be sure I am clear and descriptive in my posts!
Enjoy
I will be on the road the next few days. I will have my tablet and post as often as possible.
Sleep has no save in 5E, which I will use as my excuse for falling asleep without posting last night :) Have to run a few errands but will have a post up later today.
lol...no worries!!
I've got kind of a busy day. If I don't get a post up regarding the priest's dramatic demise today, look for one over the weekend.
All, I am on vacation and traveling starting tomorrow morning for 2 weeks. I hope to have some connectivity while traveling, especially during the first week of the trip, but please bot me when needed to move the game along. During that time my posts may be shorter as I may be posting from my phone.
Been quite ill. Pls stand by
Long rest then bot me pls
Okay, I know Koralyn is AFK. Dragomir has posted. Any input or prep from the rest of the party?
I re-memorized the spells on my list. That is pretty much it for my long rest. If anyone still needs healing after the long rest, I can provide it.
Sorry, i also prep the same spells