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Many hundreds of years ago, the forces of good allied to destroy the main Temple of Orcus in the ancient city of Tsar. With their temple in ruins, the surviving high priests of this accursed demongod fled the city with an army of enemies on their trail—an army of heroic fighters, clerics and paladins—led by Zelkor, a powerful wizard. The exact fate of these evil priests was then unknown, for not only did the remnants of the followers of Orcus disappear from all human reckoning, but so did the army of light that followed after them disappear as well. Some said that in the eternal scales the loss of so many good men was a fair price to pay to rid the world of so much evil.
The evil cult, however, had not been destroyed. The surviving priests and their followers instead settled on a hill near the Forest of Hope, a sylvan woodland near the Coast Road. There they found a vast underground complex of caverns and mazes, carving out a
volcanic intrusion beneath the hill. There, the priests of Orcus found the perfect lair to continue their vile rituals. For many years, they carried on in secret, hidden from the light and from the knowledge of men.
Many years later, their underground delving completed, the evil priests erected a hideous mausoleum and a sunken graveyard atop the hill. It is believed that these graves are in fact the final resting place of the pursuing army of heroes that had been destroyed to a man. Soon after the mausoleum was erected the peaceful creatures of the wood began to disappear. Though many rangers and druids investigated these happenings, the cause of the creatures’ disappearance was not immediately determined. Some years later a powerful group of adventurers, led by Bofred, a high priest of Thyr, investigated the evil happenings and found the sunken graveyard leading to a labyrinthine complex. Bofred and his companions found great hordes of evil creatures in the complex. Though some of his companions returned from their expedition, telling tales of fantastic treasure and ferocious monsters, Bofred was never seen again—lost in the catacombs beneath the cursed mausoleum.
For the last one hundred years, ranks of adventurers have ventured to the newfound dungeon. Many fell prey to bandits and monsters in the surrounding wilderness. Rumors suggest that of those who survived to reach the mausoleum and sunken graveyard, most were slain by guardians of green stone or perished on the very first level. Those rare few who return from deeper treks speak of horrible undead and creatures that cannot be slain. All who have explored Rappan Athuk offer this one universal piece of advice: "Don’t go down the Well."
The evils once thought buried are stirring and increasing in number once more. For now the threat is contained but if not removed a new worldwound event could be upon you. Soldiers gather and brave souls probe the earth for intelligence of the enemy's designs. Few return from the tunnels below and rumours abound of the potential treasure and the inhabitants therein. You are champions or villains, scollars or explorers, arcane magicians or devoted worshipers. Renowned in your little corner of the world, you have received the news of this impending doom and decided, for reasons personal, to become involved. Do you seek glory? To save the world? Dark secrets? Power? Wealth? Those that return are rewarded greatly for aiding in the defeat of this evil. You have decided that the great risk equals the reward and travel north on the coast road. One alone can normally do little and, though you are more competent than most, you seek others to watch your back. The small town of Mistthorne is the last civilised stop on the Coast road and its numbers have doubled in recent years. There you are certain to find others to join paths and fates with.
Gestalt 2 classes
Level 5th
Races Core, Featured, Uncommon(all are welcome to die trying to save the world regardless of hostile monstrous origins)
Classes Core, Base, Alternate, Hybrid, Unchained, Occult, Prestige
Stats 16,15,14,13,12,11
Alignment Any(The 'don't be a jerk' rule always applies)
Wealth ~5,000gp
Extras Automatic Bonus Progression
Limitations Fractional BAB and Saves for multiclassing. Max 6th level spells(full casters can get higher slots to metamagic with). No pre-game crafting.
I'll keep this open for at least a week maybe 2 when I'll choose a party of 4. I want your backstories to show how you got to level 5. To me this is about the point where book 1 of an AP finishes. You defeat the first major plot point sort of deal. So you've done a few heroic things but it's still on a pretty small scale.
This is my first time trying gestalt but I've got some friends advising me and they helped me get the pdf too. Expect some gestalt enemies, templated monsters and several mythic bosses if you get that far. This is usually meant to be a deadly dungeon so even with gestalt it should still remain quite a challenge.
Okay, why not. I'll dot for a hybrid Kineticist/life oracle.
details to follow.
Dotting
dot
Doooot. Gonna get crunch together right now with a background to follow.
Are we using Traits?
Traits 2. There are no campaign traits.
Knew I forgot something...
What world is this set in (tends to help with background)?
Dotting with a unchained rogue swashbuckler. Will have it up once I get back from vacation.
Rogue/spiritualist
How are HP handled? Background skills?
Druid/monk or an alchemist/wizard, I'll probably have one or the other up today
World Golarion is the world I usually play in. RA is situated on the border of Taldor and Qadira. We are coming at it from the Taldor side and a village I have inserted on the coast will be the start point.
HP Always max
Background Skills Allowed
Drawback Allowed(grants one extra trait)
Putting things in bold hoping it's easier to find for others later so we don't have the same question asked multiple times.
Surprised to see 9th level casters nerfed. They are usually not the problem with gestalt. I'm also surprised to see no restrictions on prestige classes and summoners. Will you for example be allowing synthesist? Or are you simply going to disqualify characters that are too powerful?
How does prestige classes work? Can I for example pick 4 levels of sorcerer on one side and 3 levels of rogue on another then go into arcane trickster or do I have to qualify all on one side of the gestalt. I think the later is the most fair.
I got a number of ideas, but unsure which ones would be too out of line. One is combining either Bloodrager (perhaps ragebred skinwalker) or synthesist with one of ninja, vivisectionist or arcane trickster. An incredibly versatile, yet also powerful character. Another is a simpler and classic combination of magus and inspired blade swashbuckler.
May I suggest putting revised rules in campaign info?
I am definitely dotting this one - Rappan Athuk is just a bomb! Will have something up as soon as possible ;)
dotting
I am most interested.
I think oyzar asks some nescessary questions about how characters will work.
I tend to play spell casters, practically always. And am new to gestalt.
Doting for interest. Will submit something relatively simple gestalt wise. Most likely a fighter/rogue.
Very much a dot, as gestalt is fun and so is Rappan Athuk by all accounts. Not set on any combo just yet.
I will create a campaign tab in a bit and add all the rules to it. Thanks for that idea.
Summoners should be unchained. In fact i would say that each of the 4 unchained classes override their baser versions. I also want to see what people come up with before I disallow certain things.
Arcane trickster at level 5? Yes. I definitely suggest versatility over making one thing you can do obscenely well. Also if you smell cheese maybe don't create that character. Let's have fun here.
Phntm, i see a problem with swashbuckler, since it specifies piercing weapons. Your blast would need to be able to do piercing damage. With a rogue i think all you need to do is make sure the kinetic blade is always formed into the weapon you chose for finesse training.
I shouldn't... but dotting. XD
@ oyzar:
Prestige class requirements must be kept on the side of the gestalt you are 'putting it on' there is a Web page with the 'official' gestalt rules out there. Pfsrd I believe.
You can find the gestalt rules here.
@ oyzar:
Prestige class requirements must be kept on the side of the gestalt you are 'putting it on' there is a Web page with the 'official' gestalt rules out there. Pfsrd I believe.
The official gestalt rules usually state that prestige classes are not allowed. However a lot of games allow them anyway. Qualifying all on the same side of the gestalt is my preferred way for things to work as well.
I will create a campaign tab in a bit and add all the rules to it. Thanks for that idea.
Summoners should be unchained. In fact i would say that each of the 4 unchained classes override their baser versions. I also want to see what people come up with before I disallow certain things.
Arcane trickster at level 5? Yes. I definitely suggest versatility over making one thing you can do obscenely well. Also if you smell cheese maybe don't create that character. Let's have fun here.
Phntm, i see a problem with swashbuckler, since it specifies piercing weapons. Your blast would need to be able to do piercing damage. With a rogue i think all you need to do is make sure the kinetic blade is always formed into the weapon you chose for finesse training.
I'm not sure if I understand your answer to my question about prestige classes. Do you have to qualify all on one side of the gestalt or not? I'm sorry that I didn't manage to interpret how you want things to work. Which of the following are legal, if any:
1) Rogue 5 // Sorcerer 4/Arcane Trickster 12) Rogue 3 / Magus 2 // Wizard 4/Arcane Trickster1
3) Bloodrager 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
4) Magus 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
5) Rogue 1/Bloodrager 4 // Wizard 4 / Arcane Trickster 1 (Again using accomplished sneak attacker to qualify)
As a side note normal monk has a lot of cool archtypes that are not available to unchained monk. You might want to allow both. Same for Barbarian and it's rage powers.
I have a feeling I know exactly what I am going to build - an Aasimar Paladin/Dawnflower Dervish. There's an holy she-warrior for you! ;)
...
I'm not sure if I understand your answer to my question about prestige classes. Do you have to qualify all on one side of the gestalt or not? I'm sorry that I didn't manage to interpret how you want things to work. Which of the following are legal, if any:
1) Rogue 5 // Sorcerer 4/Arcane Trickster 1
2) Rogue 3 / Magus 2 // Wizard 4/Arcane Trickster1
3) Bloodrager 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
4) Magus 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
5) Rogue 1/Bloodrager 4 // Wizard 4 / Arcane Trickster 1 (Again using accomplished sneak attacker to qualify)As a side note normal monk has a lot of cool archtypes that are not available to unchained monk. You might want to...
Now these are my opinions, I'll let the GM clarify the gestalt rules
From how I read gestalt, all your examples are not valid, as the RAW and RAI aren't the exact same.
as I believe it is forced pairs
i.e. Bloodrager+rogue 5 // Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer 1 is a valid gestalt combo, based on RAI.
also your examples make book keeping nuts and can lead to some extreme cheese builds
@ oyzar:
Prestige class requirements must be kept on the side of the gestalt you are 'putting it on' there is a Web page with the 'official' gestalt rules out there. Pfsrd I believe.
I looked at the gestalt rules as linked and didn't see that. But its awful late and i just might be missing something.
...
3) Bloodrager 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
4) Magus 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
From how I read gestalt, all your examples are not valid, as the RAW and RAI aren't the exact same.
as I believe it is forced pairs
i.e. Bloodrager+rogue 5 // Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer 1 is a valid gestalt combo, based on RAI.
also your examples make book keeping nuts and can lead to some extreme cheese builds
How so Azure?
Various people say that you gotta qualify for a PrC on the same side. If that is so the other 3 are out.
But the 2 I quote are fine. You can do either side as a normal character. The gestalt rules do suggest prohibiting the dual classes like arcane trickster. But that is the only objection I see.
And if this-
"Bloodrager+rogue 5 // Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer 1"
means taking Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer at level 6 you cannot. You can only advance in one PrC at once.
...
3) Bloodrager 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
4) Magus 5 // Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 1 (using accomplished sneak attacker to get enough sneak attack)
From how I read gestalt, all your examples are not valid, as the RAW and RAI aren't the exact same.
as I believe it is forced pairs
i.e. Bloodrager+rogue 5 // Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer 1 is a valid gestalt combo, based on RAI.
also your examples make book keeping nuts and can lead to some extreme cheese buildsHow so Azure?
Various people say that you gotta qualify for a PrC on the same side. If that is so the other 3 are out.
But the 2 I quote are fine. You can do either side as a normal character. The gestalt rules do suggest prohibiting the dual classes like arcane trickster. But that is the only objection I see.
And if this-
"Bloodrager+rogue 5 // Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer 1"
means taking Eldritch Knight+Shadow Dancer at level 6 you cannot. You can only advance in one PrC at once.
Must of forgotten that gestalt rule from my 3.5 days and it did not help that when my old group (3.5 days) did a few gestalt games we did allow dual PrCing since the best PrCs generally required 2 or 3 feats (a few require 4 feats) and we could not do certain combos until after level 8-9 due to feat requirements, so things were more in check. (Add in that PF gives one more feat for every 10 levels then 3.5 did)
And we did debate the gestalt rules for a good while, both the RAW and RAI. Add in that a number of us were power gamers, we realised forced pairing was the correct RAI, since loose pairs could lead to some real cheese, like game breaking cheese.
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Gestalt is a strange beast to me. I've only heard of it in old man tales. But I'm interested and have a few questions:
Word Casting: The build-your-own-spell out of spell components (words) alternative spell casting; is it viable for this adventure? Its less powerful due to a tenth of the number of spells and lacks a lot of niche spells for every occasion. But its cheap spell casting.
Master Summoner: The class of throwing monsters at monsters. I played one once and even though it requires pre-preparation, more so than the party wizard, its a lot of fun. And nobody complains about your eidolon overshadowing the fighter, at everything he could possibly do.
I want to get an idea of what I can use, these two questions are not related.
I'd second the question about word casters. Most people don't allow them so I didn't bother to ask.
EDIT: also, will you allow races from the race builder section of the ARG?
And we did debate the gestalt rules for a good while, both the RAW and RAI. Add in that a number of us were power gamers, we realised forced pairing was the correct RAI, since loose pairs could lead to some real cheese, like game breaking cheese.
Well that may be quite reasonable. But what is a forced pair? I don't recall the phrase from the Gestalt rules.
Dotting for Bard/fighter buff and debuff monkey.
Ok, came up with a submission. An adventuring archeologist. He's loaded with knowledge skills and can deal with traps, but is mean with a bow. No spells, but I figured people would likely cover that.
Fighter (lore warden)/Slayer. You can read it under this alias.
And we did debate the gestalt rules for a good while, both the RAW and RAI. Add in that a number of us were power gamers, we realised forced pairing was the correct RAI, since loose pairs could lead to some real cheese, like game breaking cheese.Well that may be quite reasonable. But what is a forced pair? I don't recall the phrase from the Gestalt rules.
forced pair was became a definition we made based on the hints from RAI and the RAW examples. Forced pair means; once two ( or three ) classes are Gestalted together they stay together and require they ALL be leveled up together at the same time.
i.e. Bloodrager+Rogue 2 is a valid forced pair,while Bloodrager1(then fighter1) + Rogue 2 is an invalid pair since rogue was continued while bloodrager lagged behind and a new class was introduced with rogue.
Thinking Investigator/Slayer or a Magus/Monk
Dotting! I am working on a wayang investigator/magus to submit.
Shifted gears from my original ideas to this guy. Mechanics should be completely done in profile, I will have his backstory up later. Also, how do you want to handle companion hp? I maxed my eidolon's hp for now, but I wanted to check
Going with a Bloodrager+Brawler, since Unchained versions of classes take priority.
Just to clarify, do you mean you would rather play those than the unchained versions of other classes (Barbarian/Monk?)?
Just to clarify, do you mean you would rather play those than the unchained versions of other classes (Barbarian/Monk?)?
I was debating between using Barbarian, Bloodrager, Brawler, Monk, Fighter, sorcerer for pairs, but since I'm not a fan of Unchained classes (sans Summoner for fixing it's OP state)
and since the GM wrote
....
Summoners should be unchained. In fact I would say that each of the 4 unchained classes override their baser versions. I also want to see what people come up with before I disallow certain things.
....
So I dropped both Barbarian and Monk from my list of class options.
Ok, basic crunch is done - still needs some important tweaking, namely spells, traits, thinking if I really want to spend that much money on a piece of armor, etc :D
In any case:
Erianna
Female azata-blooded aasimar (musetouched) bard (dawnflower dervish) 5/fighter (brawler) 2/monk (unchained, master of many styles) 1/paladin (o (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels 22, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic 34, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 44, 59, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 60, Pathfinder Unchained 14)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 16, flat-footed 18 (+7 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 64 (5d10+14)
Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +11 (+1 vs. fear); +4 vs. bardic performance, language-dependent, and sonic, +2 vs. death
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk cold iron scimitar +8 (1d6+9/18-20) or
. . unarmed strike +4/+4 (1d6+5)
Special Attacks bardic performance 16 rounds/day (countersong, distraction, fascinate [DC 16], inspire competence +2, inspire courage +2), battle dance: inspire courage, flurry of blows (unchained), smite evil 1/day (+4 attack and AC, +2 damage), stunning fist (2/day, DC 12)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +9)
. . 1/day—glitterdust (DC 16)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +6)
. . At will—detect evil
Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) Spells Known (CL 5th; concentration +9)
. . 2nd (3/day)—heroism, mirror image
. . 1st (5/day)—feather fall, liberating command[UC], saving finale[APG] (DC 15)
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 18
Base Atk +5; CMB +4 (+5 bull rush, +5 drag, +5 reposition); CMD 22 (23 vs. bull rush, 23 vs. drag, 23 vs. reposition)
Feats Crane Riposte[UC], Crane Style[UC], Crane Wing[UC], Dervish Dance[ISWG], Dodge, Fey Foundling[ISWG], Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Stunning Fist
Skills Acrobatics +14, Diplomacy +6, Fly +14, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (planes) +9, Knowledge (religion) +9, Linguistics +9, Perception +8, Perform (dance) +14, Perform (oratory) +14, Use Magic Device +12; Racial Modifiers +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perform (dance), +2 Perform (oratory)
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Daemonic, Draconic, Infernal, Sylvan
SQ battle dance, fuse style, lay on hands 5/day (1d6), spinning spellcaster, versatile performance (dance)
Other Gear mithral agile breastplate[APG], mwk cold iron scimitar, 150 gp
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Tracked Resources
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Bardic Performance (standard action, 16 rounds/day) - 0/16
Battle Dance (move action) - 0/0
Glitterdust (1/day) - 0/1
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 5/day) (Su) - 0/5
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) - 0/1
Stunning Fist (2/day, DC 12) - 0/2
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Special Abilities
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Bardic Performance (standard action, 16 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Battle Dance (move action) A Dawnflower dervish is trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself. This works like bardic performance, except that the Dawnflower dervish’s performances grant double their normal bonuses, but th
Battle Dance: Inspire Courage +4 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Crane Riposte Lessen fight defensive attack pen. Gain AoO when deflect att/lose crane wing dodge bonus.
Crane Style Fight defensive pen reduced to -2. When in style, dodge bonus increases by 1.
Crane Wing Your sweeping blocks and graceful motions allow you to deflect melee attacks with ease.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Fey Foundling Magical healing works better on you
Flurry of Blows (Unchained) (Ex) As full-rd action, gain extra attacks with unarmed strike/monk weapons.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 5/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +2 to damage, +4 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spinning Spellcaster (Ex) +4 bonus on concentration checks to cast spells defensively.
Stunning Fist (2/day, DC 12) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist Helper This is a dummy ability to add an extra entry for the stunning fist feat in another section of the statblock (since it is shown with a different name in the two places, we can't use sbName).
Versatile Performance (Dance) +14 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Dance skill for Acrobatics or Fly checks
Fluff is underway.
I have been thinking about a zen archer/fighter but if we don't want non unchained classes I may go back to my rogue fighter idea
Holy crap I almost missed it. I'm totally in for this.
@Azure_Zero Thanks, that's what I figured you meant, but I got this idea into my head that someone somehow thought bloodrager and brawler were the unchained versions of the barbarian and monk. The more I think about it, the crazier it seems that someone would actually think that.
Oyzar all your options of getting arcane trickster are fine. From what I thought, unchained classes were better than the originals except for summoner which toned it down.
We won't be using wordcasting guys. I don't mind Master summoner.
No racebuilder...
Not sure where this forced pair idea came from but here is basically how you qualify for things. Everything you have in your character at each level is used to satisfy prerequisites. Arcane trickster starting at level 5 is fine. This can already be done with non-gestalt with Rogue 1/Wizard 3 and the accomplished sneak feat.
Check Campaign Tab for current updated rules.