GM's Lords of Creation

Game Master Monkeygod

Why do we even have to finish this fight? I say we restart now.

We don't have to. GM of Creation may just say that the fight nukes the world. Maybe the clash of life and death I just posted proves too much for the fabric of space-time. :)

Panther fries anyone?

Well, we "finished the fight", as it were, if we want to keep that canon for the restart of the game. If not, we can just leave what I did as something that never happens. I purposefully wrote it the way I did so that when we restart Zakaz could come back as Zakaz yet again if he wishes, or he could become a new god. I figured since we were done with this timeline of events this would be a decent way to introduce stuff of GM of Creation so chooses. If not, it just doesn't happen.

Couldn't resist. :P

Before I decide on reset, I would like to have each active player here chime in yes or no on resetting. Feel free to give any explanation as well.

I also plan on PM'ing those who are not currently active and get their feedback as well, if possible.

I am not in favor of restarting, but understand the point of view.

I'm okay with either way, personally. We can either move forward and run with this story, or we can nuke it and start over. Both have good arguments.

Continue:
-This storyline is fascinating, even though it has caused a few problems and is the result of some. Shess makes an excellent Villain with a capital V, and it reveals more about Therien and Azrael's character.
-The worldbuilding has been interesting. The nonstandard races (irtara and Cull) feel unique, and although it's true we could recreate them, it would feel somewhat disingenuous to me if we essentially went through the same motions when we have the opportunity to do something else cool.
-Maybe it's just me, but I rather enjoy the Warhammer feeling this setting is getting, even though it's mostly due to the absence of the other players than anything else. The world is filled with dangerous monsters, the evil gods outnumber the only good one who hasn't retreated to who knows where, the god of death is pretty nice but you don't want to piss him off, etc.

Restart:
-A lot of confusing, bad stuff happened during the course of this game, which lead to a lot of weird decisions. Starting fresh with some "ground rules" set could greatly benefit the game as a whole, despite the cool setting that we've created.
-Restarting will allow the inactive gods to get a chance to hop on events again. Things have been moving very quickly, and it can be hard to get your feet back under you in a PbP once you're behind a few pages or so.
-Already having a basic world (planet, moon, sun) set up would allow us to spend our initial AP on much more interesting things.

Really, I'm neutral on this topic. This storyline is nearly at an end, I feel, and we could continue on with the lessons we have just learned in the front of our mind. Or not. I'm just enjoying a game with so much narrative freedom.

I think a reset could be accomplished while maintaining the current story line.

Here's what I mean: The god of life has been killed -nearly killed on the material plane- much of his blood washing the land. His soul has been (temporarily?) banished or washed in with the souls of mortals. The god of death and judge of souls has in turn been murdered due to a misunderstanding of his words, his soul trapped (temporarily) in an evil dagger.

What if Zakaz's death killed every living thing? What if Azrael's death as a flood of souls entered his realm caused the souls of the dead to be trapped with him? What if it becomes necessary to consume those souls in the process of rescuing him?

We have a lifeless, ruined land, abandoned by its gods. We have a pair of gods remaining, who, if they don't kill each other, might eventually be able to restore the lost gods. One is the Goddess of Invention and the other the God of Blood. Surely, between the two, given time, they could find a way to restore Death and Life to the world. Even if Tissari kills Therien, she could probably find a way to do it eventually. But they will need to gather and spend a buttload of power to do so.

Thus, the reset without resetting. The places and concepts you want gone were destroyed in the cataclysm, yet the land, moon, and sun remain. Tissari and Therien expend so much power they reset their Domains to the beginning, Zakaz and Atheos are restored as shells of their former self (ie reset) and the workings of the cosmos have shifted slightly to install whichever new rules we want to lay down.

It'll take buy-in from the Dragon and the missing gods, but is doable.

In regards to the reset, I'm fine with either continuing Therien or saying Tissari killed him for his transgressions and starting up a new god. I'm really happy playing Therien, and I think he strikes a good counterpoint to the other gods, but I brought him in due to a lack of villains in the game, and could run with something more constructive if needed. As long as the Sun hangs behind the Moon, I'll be happy to have left my mark.

I, too, really enjoy the narrative freedom the game allows and just want a bit better communication before and during major events/clashes, and prefer the suggested proxy war of ideas over straight up sudden death battle.

I actually really like that, Therien!

Oh, wow. I can just imagine the interactions there. Therien treating Tissari like his arch-nemesis who he's been forced to work with, Tissari treating Therien like a little brother going an angsty phase.

That puts the whole, "journey for a year and a day" thing into a whole new perspective.

"C'mon, Therry! Isn't this roadtrip fun? Look, I know the Cull nearly killed us, but at least we learned some interesting things about how frail our human bodies are."

*Therien, clutching a broken arm* "I HATE YOU"

"Don't be like that! Perk up, I'm sure that the next group of intelligent things we run into will be friendly."

The problem I have with Therein's idea is that if we start this over, there's no real reason Azrael isn't going to try and hunt Therein down and kill him if he's still alive. We've already seen that Azrael while not evil is definitely vengeful, and him coming back and everything being fine between them doesn't make sense. He would hunt Therein down and if not kill him at least maim him in some fashion, and the only thing I can think of that would stop his is another god's intervention and that just makes him spiteful versus whoever that is as well. There's no good way that ends in which my character isn't basically just not doing what he would do or I start going after another player, and neither of those is a good option in my book. Also, it's worth noting that turns take place simultaneously; Azrael would be able to attack and almost definitely kill Therein in the same turn. If the planet is still around, why are the monuments and stuff people have built destroyed?

I would honestly rather start over completely or just retcon the end of that fight than keep things as they are at that point. I don't think I would enjoy that scenario very much as it sort of makes me a villain of necessity and that wasn't the idea I had with this character when I joined up.

-----

Ideally though, I'd prefer maybe a soft reset where we move a bit back in time (not sure how far exactly, maybe right before all this direct conflict started?) and we just level everyone off as a lesser deity. We could give people back the AP they've spent since that point and let them do what they will with it, or we could rule that the things that they were spent on are around for other reasons, or allow it on an individual basis.

So, let me see if I'm understanding Lortimas' deal right. It's grateful for any help, and probably won't mess with you if you leave it alone. But if there's a way for Lortimas to get more wealth and/or power, it'll absolutely throw you under the bus, and if you actively antagonize it, Lortimas will fight nasty, dirty, and without any mercy.

Am I about right on the mark there?

Precisely, it will honor deals (for the most part). As for the rest of it you have most of it correct. I don't think Lortimas will "throw you under the bus" completely, as there is usually some use from having allies and it would be a bad thing to break an alliance that is providing some benefit, but if you break that alliance willingly or otherwise cross thresholds that threaten Lortimas wealth, power, and prestige, Lortimas will indeed fight nasty, dirty, and without any mercy. (You also might want to think of Lortimas as a mafia godfather.)

My idea for a reset.... What if the remaining deities were forced together after the "destruction" of the old world, and must co-operate (albeit begrudgingly for some) for the creation of the new world... I could go for that.

Also, I'm not entirely certain what my AP is supposed to be right now. (10, I think?)

Other than that, a reset probably affects me the least. I don't have that many interactions with the deities, other than Tissari.

Edit: Also, I don't want to start-over, start over. I think the deities should have their same domains, spheres of influence, powers, and possibly relics. Though all other creations could be destroyed. Any decrees should also remain, imho.

I like this even more because it's almost like the stuff that happened before this new creation is very much like a First Age. There are remnants of it in the geological history of the planet, but any new creations will be discovering/rediscovering it.

Also, I'm opposed to anything that would make it so I couldn't play Azrael anymore. I doubt that's really on the table but I basically just started and I like what I've been doing so far with him.

Players can absolutely either play the exact same deity(same goals, domains, personality, etc) or create an entirely brand new one. You could also create a hybrid of the two, ie, a god who is functionally similar to your old one, but is otherwise completely different.

Players can absolutely either play the exact same deity(same goals, domains, personality, etc) or create an entirely brand new one. You could also create a hybrid of the two, ie, a god who is functionally similar to your old one, but is otherwise completely different.

I meant that any divine powers or additional domains (as well as deity level) would "translate" over to the reboot.

If most stays the same with at most a soft reset, I'd be likely interested in continuing.

I appreciate the kind words in Shess' direction. It is hard to gauge how well one is doing being a villlan.

You've made Tissari absolutely loathe you without even having met you. Which, considering Tissari, is an impressive feat.

I've finally finished my finals stuff and recovered from the process, and I just caught up with the Discussion thread here. Haven't gone through Gameplay all the way yet, but I'm not sure I really want to given what I've read here and everything.

Reserving most thoughts, I'll say that if we don't do some sort of reset, I don't think I'll continue with this. At this point I've fallen way behind, and too much has happened since I was able to post for me to feel comfortable coming back in. It doesn't make any sense that Apedemak would sit back during everything that's gone on, and it would be far too wonky to shoehorn him into things... So if the game just continues as it has, I'll say thanks for what time I spent here and move on.

That said, some sort of reset would be fine by me, whether that's a hard reboot, a soft reset to some state before everything started getting out of hand, or a handwaved new world being created after the destruction of what happened so far. I think if we all come in on equal footing--same rank, same AP, same creations/abilities or lack thereof--that would be fair.

The more I think of it the more I'm favoring some manner of soft reset. I like the world we have, even if I kinda messed it up. I like the creation we had going. It was different and cool Especially the Lake of Fire pre-Therein's arrival.

@ Therein: I would like to discuss keeping the Lake of fire. Maybe it can be damaged, but not destroyed utterly?

In any case, Beneath my Notice is a good suggestion, I feel. Maybe the Creator puts that in place because what we experienced recently was exactly how the previous universe ended.

Aped: Man, your finals must be five kinds of brutal to keep you this long.

Hey guys! Sorry, I've been gone for two weeks—my computer was dead AND I was traveling on-and-off (it's all good stuff, we managed to convince some important people to give us $1.5 million towards our project over the next five years despite only asking for $1 million).

But it also means I've only been able to keep up with my post-a-week-or-two games.

I apologize for Atheos coming on too strong. I think he was a bit of an antagonistic deity from the start, but I was also expecting new gods to fight back more directly. Since Atheos was originally created as a "newer god willing to tussle with the older, more powerful gods" putting him in charge of so much to begin with turned him into a bit of a bully.

I'd be fine resetting a bit, but if so, I think Atheos might be retiring somewhat, and letting a more neutral version of him (maybe the librarian he created) take over as an entity more interested in the creation of worlds.

So uh... any further thoughts on this? I realize I came to the discussion kind of late.

Ok, so most people seem to favor some sort of soft reset.

What exactly must be kept, in your opinion, aside from the world/main continent/afterlife?

For me, the Cull and the Shard.

So, um, I'm going to voice what's probably an unpopular opinion.

But I think, due to the nature of the reset, EVERYBODY should be sent rocketing back to their base domains, starting AP, and have everything they've done wiped away with ONE exception. This way, it gets everybody on equal footing, and lets us actually create new stories rather than just doing the same one over and over again.

GM of Creation, I think you may have to be the Uber-God on this one. You may have to make the decision. I think we can still make good stories with the domains, knowledge, and powers that the elder gods have currently, as we fledgling deities learn creative resourcefulness to make us "on equal footing" - but I think it might be acceptable for the deities to save one creation for the new world. (I would save the Magmen (Dwarves)).

If it must be one, then I would save the Shard

And I'd like to save my demigod so I can try playing as her. (or if we're carrying something over, maybe my lawful plane, since planes are never easy to create)

That said, we could also just "save our memories" so that we can recreate races.

I'm actually not of the opinion that we need to scrap everything everyone did, honestly. We can if we want to, but I don't feel that it's strictly necessary in order to fix some of this stuff. We already partially fixed the problem with being completely unbalanced in terms of AP expenditure, I think at this point the problem is more that things went off the rails thanks to issues with communication. I think we could potentially just move... back in time to before that point. This was before the new gods got extra AP so if we aren't resetting everyone to fledgling deities that'd need to happen again, but otherwise I think it's a sound option.

However, if we do go this route, I think I'll go simple and save my creation of storms. They were directly tied to Azrael's 'birth' and bringing them up again would feel weird. I guess we could also change it so that we can each save a certain amount of AP worth of our creations, which seems maybe more fitting.

Aaaaand I'm back. That job didn't last very long. :(

So, uh... what's going on with this?

Wondering that as well.

Crap, I'm sorry guys, I totally forgot to post something here.

What I think we're going to do is this:

The world will be reset, back to just after it was created. Each of can keep one concept we've created, regardless of level. Races, concepts, and other personal creations are gone, but everything else we've created still exists. So, planes, celestial objects, etc are still around.

Also, since we only had a few, I think I'm also going to rule cosmic decrees stick around as well.

Obviously, as races are gone, any boons or concepts created for them are gone too.

All gods are back to being fledglings, but we'll start with 20 AP. I am still thinking about what will change as far ascending to another tier.

I am also considering starting a new game play thread, but that might be too much of a hassle.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on all of this. Hopefully people are still interested.

Again, sorry for spacing and not posting earlier.

I didn't create many concepts. If I could keep a kind of implied concept it would be Hunting and Gathering.

Given my two concepts, I'll retain Blood Magic.

I'm ok with creating a new gameplay thread so those we've lost don't need to be deleted or keep getting notifications.

Totally still interested. Thought maybe you were Paizoconning and didn't look too deep into the absence.

Hm. I will go ahead and look through Tissari's concepts for a bit to figure out what I'll keep.

EDIT: Okay, I'll go ahead and keep Stormwielding. I can easily reproduce the other concepts using Mad Scientist, and Tissari made magic a cosmic decree so the other deities couldn't mess with it and exploit mortals easily. Stormwielding can probably end up being errata'd as using willpower to channel the last, dying breaths of the previous world into destructive energy.

Since I'll be switching to the Librarian, I've only got one concept: Education. Of my other creations, I guess the moon still exists, as does the Great Axis plane, where Atheos will probably disappear into for the next cycle..

I'll be taking a more "balanced" track with Zakaz this next time, just so you all know. Still Lord of Predators, but more emphasis on natural balance.

Hmm, I think I'll just keep the concept of Storms. As I said before, it's integral to Azrael's birth and so I'd like to keep it around.

I'm very excited to observe this next rendition.

Hmm. I didn't make a lot of concepts, but I'll keep Beastmastery--it's exemplary of Apedemak's concept and role as a guardian of civilization but also a lover of the natural world, working in harmony with animals. Plus it seems like a pretty cool idea to me.

I will keep the concept of mining, since its the basic requirement for all metalwork, which the Magmen will become very good at.

bump?

I've been having so many issues connecting to the site over the last week+

Not sure if you all are as well, but it's very difficult to post anything big as I can only access the site via my cellphone.

Yes, I've been having that problem too.

Funny, I can't access it at all from my phone. I can only post via laptop. This has created a massive drop in my own posting. Like 80%, no joke.

Are you turning off your WiFi? It seems to somehow be related to that. Once I do that, I can jump on Paizo fine via my cell's own internet.