And I'm pretty sure if any of us other gods want to use any of those concepts we have to fight you for them. So defining which ones is really in the intrest of your divine health. :)
If you want to give your creations a concept that was created by another deity, or use another concept to Alchemize with your own, you must engage that deity in combat.
Unless the god gives it willingly.
Of course, combat can be abstract. Pretty sure Atheos fights by yelling at people. But yeah, Zakaz, you've discovered my secret plan: as a god of atheism it seemed important to do combat stuff—so I can bully other gods into making certain gifts available to the whole world. :D
Fair enough. I don't see anything stopping a concept as a gift.
I think you certainly need to specifically spell out the advanced concepts that you're creating - there's no list of all possible advanced concepts anywhere, so creating 'all of them' isn't really possible.... I'd also tend to think of aetherpunk as either a magical concept, or as an alchemy of technology and magic concepts...?
It's more that I'd be interested (not necessarily immediately; players are busy) in a more detailed description of this society, and what they have so far. Do they have weapons? Economy? A flight technology capable of reaching the ground? Or is it a sort of "simple primitive advanced society" where the first people live (at least for now) in a sort of socialist utopia without major wants etc.
Me too! The creation of the society and the creatures themselves would be a fun read, I think.
Hey guys! I just remembered. Creating a plane (or the first planet in the material plane) *explicitly* creates time on that plane (or creates an explicit absence of time), as well as the basic presence or absence of magic (not anything about magic, just the fact that it can exist) and the presence and direction of gravity.
This is kind of useful. Since Araneae contributed to the cost of building the world, we can say she chipped in both the stars and time itself, with "all things must die"/fate etc. being now a neatly-bases-covered later proclamation. Since Tissari also contributed to the world, and her backstory specifically mentions gravity (which is important to what Atheos wants to do next), we can assume maybe she chipped in that part, as well as "the reactions that powered the stars"—maybe a liberal reading of the laws of physics Atheos suggested.
Which is to say, I'm about to do something that relies on Tissari already creating gravity, but I think we can assume that that happened.
Nice find! I missed that part when I read it before. No more time discussing! Yay!
I'm reading into it slightly—the exact wording is "When weaving a plane, the creating god must decide on any special features it has, such as accelerated time, or empowered magic"—but this seems to imply that time and possibly magic (and gravity, another one of the standard planar features) are set by the person creating that plane. And it also seems like a good way to settle our discussion without the creator gods paying an extra AP tax for basic features (which might be a bit different if we had a deity obsessed with being gravity, or time; we might have someone who wants to be more direct with magic)
I know Lir seems like he wants to make magic his wheelhouse so we can get more granular on that one of we want.
True. He also wanted the moon, though, so uh...
For some reason, I am not getting new post notifications on any of my game threads. Tried signing out but that didn't work.
Oh, it's everyone. People are just noticing slowly.
Yea, saw the thread. Must have happened when the site was wonky earlier. Got several 'can't load page' errors.
Slight confusion:
Certain abilities mention Elemental Purity, but no such thing exists.
Should they be referring to Elemental Mastery, which maybe got a name change?
Yeah. There's a couple other places where names change too. Fabled = legendary, etc.
Elemental Mastery actually seems slightly disappointing; unless you're planning to fill every single continent and island with volcanoes, you're not saving AP, unless your element is one that can be applied to a wide variety of curses. (Could be fun with an element like Luck or Disease, but I can't see it being too useful for Acid). Meanwhile, Protean Lord is hilarious, while Mad Scientist and Source of Arcane are an absolute bargain.
I'm not being updates either. Here's hoping it's fixed soon. Having to check every campaign I'm in manually is annoying.
One point: "First Gods of the Vault" sounds like it might exclude younger gods who show up later. Maybe "Gods of the Vault," bound by some sort of contract written on the stone when this meeting is done, or maybe just gods who agree to meet here regularly. Should another pantheon form (I can see this thing breaking 2-3 ways), that gives both more equal slogans in recruiting newcomers.
Well we are the first aren't we?
On the other hand, I don't see why it can't be changed later
So uh.... we're back to forums working, everybody.
Any requests, demands, or proposals from the quieter gods? I've tried to avoid me and Zakaz post-spamming too much, although other than Lirestil and Apednak, everyone seems to have created a fair bit of AP stuff.
I'm trying to hold back too. This is everyone's story, after all.
Also, 1 week until our children show up. :)
Sorry for missing all of the Discussion, guys! All of my games were undotted for whatever reason.
RE: Advanced concepts. Um, okay. That "all of them" thing was just a placeholder until I got a more complete list up, sorry about that. This is going to be a list. As a note, all of the -punk concepts have been specifically called out as Advanced concepts, except for the super technologically advanced ones like cyberpunk, which are legendary. I believe the reason why relatively simple technology is only an advanced concept rather than a magical one is that magic is supposed to be on a higher tier than technology, and technology, while it may come close, will neve, at the advanced level at least, be able to replicate magic. Higher levels come closer, on the other hand, which is why cyberpunk is an advanced technology. But here's just a basic list:
-Architecture
-Metalworking
-Engineering
-Mathematics
-Scientific Process
-Visual Art
-Written Art
-Chemistry
-Transportation
-Electricity
-Schooling
-Creativity
-Aetherpunk
I would love to hear you guys' arguments if any of them are either too basic or too advanced. I've got to go, but when I come back I'll post up a more detailed version of their society.
So, the basic difference is:
-Basic Concepts are elements of society
-Advanced Concepts are anything that can be used for warfare or massive changes to society
Some of these (schooling, creativity, visual art, written art, architecture) feel like basic concepts; but I think you should be *allowed* to create them via mad scientist nonetheless.
It is kind of amusing that you seem to have created a race capable of inventing each of these, de facto, which is something we can probably work with; right now, there's a somewhat-advanced society already living on the moon—they could potentially become guardians and inspirations to the developments of newer, more primitive societies.
Also, the tech level doesn't seem too terrible; with electricity before industrialization, you'll still have a society with about medieval/renaissance levels of real technology (though weapons and warfare probably closer to the ancient Greeks). I'm reminded of the Novakid from Starbound, who are all genius inventors (the analogy given is Da Vinci, where not all the inventions work), but have extremely short attention spans, leading to each generation or individual produce its own fantastic gadgets or copying others', but with new techs dying out and being recreated soon after so that the society never gets too out of hand.
* * *
Concepts the Ancient Greeks had that might also fit into Tissari's basic set:
-Navigation
-Classical/pre-Newtonian physics
-Clockwork
Notable things present in a Greek-type society but missing here that *don't* seem like Tissari'd think of them:
-History/chronicling
-Laws
-Democracy, Monarchy, or any other forms of government
-Currency
-Trade
-Music and dance (sounds like Araneae has dibs on these)
That sounds completely plausible. Lets see what Tiss does.
I think I will create a sapient race as soon as this moot is done just so I can play with the Heroes and Legends thing maybe. My concept is interesting and my create conflicts with any other race deciding to pop up. :)
I'll say that I was pretty much holding off on posting until the caching/dotting problem got fixed. Especially in a game like this where we've had some rapid-fire conversations, I figured it'd be nice to keep things from getting out of hand while nobody can see what's happening.
Now that things are back online, I'll post once more!
Re: Things here--I named the Pantheon the "First Gods" because that's what we are, and it fits Apedemak's sense of grandeur and dignity to things. Sounds more impressive than just "the gods," you know? And we can always change the name later should we choose--there don't seem to be any limits on when people can join a Pantheon or anything regarding names or themes of it.
I think I will create a sapient race as soon as this moot is done just so I can play with the Heroes and Legends thing maybe. My concept is interesting and my create conflicts with any other race deciding to pop up. :)
I'm excited, although I'd also say that I'm personally planning to play with those without sapient races just yet, perhaps. It doesn't seem like you have to choose a sapient race to do those things with, so I was considering raising a Heroic or Legendary lion or some such who would serve as Apedemak's messenger and herald on the mortal world.
Speaking of, my first plan for after the moot is to get the lions from you, Zakaz. Up to playing that out?
Totally. There might be a wrestling match involved. ;)
It may not be as rapid fire as some other of our conversations though. I won't be on much longer and tomorrow is busy, but I will post as I am able.
A wrestling match sounds good to me. How Apedemak Tamed the Lions, and How the Mountains Were Made, something like that? :)
The real question is, do we want to keep it all in RP, or try out the combat system with RPing each motion of that? I'm fine either way, and obviously it wouldn't actually be for lethal intentions or anything.
Who says heroes and legends need to be from a sapient race? Sure, you could have a dwarf raised by wolves or an elf trained by orcas to kill with his teeth and swim faster than lightning or whatever. But what about granting the world's strongest gorilla the intelligence to become a mighty warrior, leading forces of the forest against encroaching cities, with an army of leopards trained to attack whatever his spear points at? Or a mythical beast that grants wishes to anyone who can catch it—and since it's too fast to ever be caught, uses those wishes itself, to shape the forests around it? (Not that there's anything *wrong* with Zakaz creating intelligent life too)
If I create any heroes or legends personally, they're more likely to be miraculous constructs or sphinxes of mythical power whose riddles force men to confront the nature of reality itself, etc.
* * *
EDIT: As for combat—I don't think it has to be literal stabbing. Magical contests, cup-stacking, a race around the planet, or a very heated argument feel like they also might be forms of combat, depending on the deity.
* * *
Also, I'd assume heralds to generally be legends or demigods, with heroes as more of a favored servant type thing.
That's a good point, Atheos. I guess I'm still wrapping my head around just how free form this can be.
@Aped: We could try out the combat system and RP the die rolls. I think you'll win on base average alone, but I might get lucky a few times. :)
I would like to see combat as a severe scolding from you, Atheos, but as we are still in the Mythic era (as it were) the above proposed wrestling match seems like a very Ancient Myth way of doing things. (and I like the idea of mountains being made that way).
I mean I got some personal opinion in the game. If you punch Atheos, he'll just argue that your fist doesn't exist until it disappears. Wrestling as a contest for something, sure, makes sense.
Been traveling all day, and there didn't seem to be too much to comment on currently in game either.
So are people going to join the pantheon?
Yes, I will be. Haven't had time to write it up.
Also, rp-wise, how does one join the pantheon? Is it signing the stone of the vault or something? Or is it just an ambiguous powerful connection?
Also, rp-wise, how does one join the pantheon? Is it signing the stone of the vault or something? Or is it just an ambiguous powerful connection?
My suggestion is to let Aped decide, as it's sorta his idea, and he's been pushing for it.
Though, the signing the stone is a good idea :)
Athens is against it at the moment, but I guess I'm on the fence, depending on what arguments that are made.
Also uhhhh... I've got nothing against any of you as a player. But Atheos is the *god of Atheism*, which means he's not gonna be too easy to work with on divine matters.
yeah, no matter how you look at it, a god of atheism makes little to no sense, especially during creation times.
I'm ignoring the atheism bit for now in favor of grumpy logic via a grandfather's disapproving scowl. :)
Yeah, I'll admit I'm still wrapping my head around the concept of a "God of Atheism," and I'm trying to focus on the idea that he's a god of cold logic and simple physics. That said, I could see a reason Atheos might want to be in the pantheon--if he's part of it he has a say and a connection to the others, which gives him position to keep an eye on things and make sure nobody's getting out of hand. That's the honest idea of the pantheon to begin with: mutual work and assurance that we'll keep things running in a good direction overall. I expect it may break down or have fluid membership of people leaving or coming in.
RP-wise, I like the idea of it being to make your mark on the stone of the Vault. How you do that is up to you--you might write your name on the table, or just a rune or symbol, or perhaps simply smash a stone or some such. Maybe a chair rises from the earth for you to sit in while present, if that's okay? The idea of the Vault is that it's a mythical location that reflects the gods who meet there.
yeah, no matter how you look at it, a god of atheism makes little to no sense, especially during creation times.
How do you think *he* feels about it? Hence, being a grumpus.
* * *
@Apedemak: Atheos is going through a bit of an existential crisis owing to the fact that instead of a minor deity who annoys others, the universe apparently now needs him to run things. Still his biggest fears revolve around the more mundane concept of a pantheon, and the fact that people might start worshipping him by association.
Interesting rules there, Atheos. They really made me think.
They're not necessarily rules for good governance; I just thought about what is the least a God of Atheism would absolutely require in order to work with others.
I'm at a two day Vampire the Masquerade LARP event, and have had very little time to read much beyond some discussion pages. Will try and catch up on Sun, but it may not be till Mon till I post, due to my brain likely being mush most of the Sun.
Okay. So uh... anyone else want to get in further actions before AP rollover? I feel like I've been hogging the dialogue more than I'd like, but Atheos has said his piece.
Not unless we can get at least 4 people to join the pantheon.
Ok. For the Flower, I don't know if that would be an artifact or relic. Maybe an relic that makes artifacts?
My problem is that I don't really want to make something mortals can't use. Retrieving a Petal of the Flower to raise one's dead wife sounds line an awesome quest for a hero or legend. One the other hand, I don't want it to be off limits to the gods....
Input?