GM Toothy's Wrath of the Righteous (Inactive)

Game Master Sir Longears

Just my opinion...

I'm not a big fan of swapping out magical items. You either have it or use it or give it to someone else for keeps.

Pardon the interruption; any Eberron fans?

I was going through my RPG book (real books) collection and got a little nostalgic.

I am trying to raise interest for an Eberron game played with Pathfinder rules.

I'm asking a reduced number of people I play with before opening up a recruitment thread. With some luck, I'll get five suckers players and I won't have to open up a recruitment thread.

PM me soon (within 24 hours) if you are interested and we'll probably continue the conversation in other thread.

Game on!

I like this encouter so far. It's nice with something to remind us that the enemies can wreck massive destruction.

I might be interested depending on specifics Elriel.

@Kai: Finally an encounter where opening with grapple is great. Though a roll of 2 would have failed even if you did try last round and of course it's easy to say such things in hindsight. You still provide flanking while grappling I believe. Though I guess stunning fist might have been even more devastating, even if less likely to succeed.

@Arika: It's possible to position glitterdust over her before the others move in since you were first in iniative. I understand if you want to tend to Kelumarion first though.

Also, yay, my fortune finally did something!

@Kai: Have you seen the item Anaconda coils? Sadly it no longer make you qualify for final embrace like it used to, but maybe Toothy will let you use the pre-errata version?

This character I'm playing in a Strange Aeons game was heavily inspired by this adventure path. I feel like she turned out quite well. Maybe some of you want to check her out?

You can 5ft step me if you want. I'm on mobile now and can't figure out how to move my icon!

It's not possible to move the icons on mobile with the setup we are using. At least I haven't found a way.

I keep forgetting my bleeding attack. :(

Targets bleeds for 2 hp/round until healed if hit with my sneak attack.

@Toothy: Everyone except Arrika is somehow a 'previous player' in the campaign. Is this your way of saying that this will be a tough fight? :)

I don't think Google Pictures lets you do it - that's why I use Google Slides for my maps. It lets you edit on mobile, although it doesn't have quite as many tools as Pictures.

Guys, I need your opinion here on how the rules work...

Arrika, as a summoner, can cast summon monster as a SLA and the text says this ability counts as the summon monster spell for trigger and spell completion items, no doubts here since it is pretty clear.

What I'm in doubt is that, since she is casting the spell from the wand (thus not subject to the rule of eidolon OR summons), I'm inclined to think that it should work as the spell, and not as the SLA, thus requiring a full-round action to cast and lasting 1 round/level. What are your thoughts?

There isn't really any reason it shouldn't take 1 full round. I must admit I at some point thought it was a standard action as well, it's an easy mistake to make. Personally I'm in favor of letting the action stand this way, but doing it correctly going forward.

Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

I'm also not sure how Augument Summoning works with a wand. I'm hoping you'll let it apply. If you do let it, the dogs should have +2 attack and +1 damage (1-1/2 of strength mod due to them only having one natural attack, i'm pretty sure the statblock on d20pfsrd is calculating augument summoning wrong), if you don't they should have -2 damage.

Sorry for not pointing things out earlier. I've been quite busy/tired... Work has been extremely demanding this week.

I did already apply Augment Summons, not thinking about it being a wand. So take two off the attack and damage rolls - my bad.

I'm fine with the longer casting time and shorter duration - as you said, it should be as the spell. Use my standard action next turn to complete the full round, and feel free to just use the attack and damage rolls as they stand next round (assuming the fight's still ongoing). Of course, if you let it stay a standard this time, I won't say no. ;)

I didn't think there was any room for interpretation. If the spell is cast from the wand then it doesn't matter whether a summoner casts it or a regular magic user. The spell behaves like spell taking a full round action to cast with its effects occurring at the beginning of the caster's next turn.

@Kai: I don't really understand... You could have either punched her three times (at least a couple with stunning fist) or chosen to grapple her again. Why did you chose to hit her with the spade instead? I'm fine with people doing less than optimal things if it makes sense for their character, but here I don't see how it makes sense. I'm not upset or anything, I'm just slightly confused.

At 55 damage and grazed (meaning she has at least 210 hp), we'll need to get lucky to live through this.

Can someone move Rukzha to the edge of the stairs? It might keep her out of range of the spell, and I can just use my movement to get back next turn.

@Arrika: I don't think it's too late to alter what you summon. A single small earth elemental will take a lot less space and likely deal more expected damage since she likely has DR. It does have power attack and you need at least 23 to hit. Since you do have over 1 bab you can draw the rod, move and use it all in one turn.

Edit: Oh s~~@... If Arrika moves to the wardstone, it'll provoke AoO. You could use a summon to draw out her AoO first though...

I was concerned about DR since she's described as having "an insectoid arm" so I drew my spade. I didn't grapple because of her +12 mod which, now that I look at it, is dumb. Sorry about That.

Multiple summons would draw more AoOs, in case she has Combat Reflexes...but since I took a move action last round to draw the wand, I'd need to use my standard action this round to complete the casting, and thus wouldn't be able to cancel the wardstone until next turn.

So I have two questions:

1) What combination of actions would it take for me to throw the rod to Elriel or Irabeth? There's no hard and fast ruleset for it, but I've had it come up in games before where we've resolved it with a move action from the thrower and a Dexterity check or Reflex save from the catcher. If we can work something out, I'd like to finish my summons, then throw the rod to someone who's closer to the wardstone.

2) What sort of action is it to use the rod? It doesn't specifically give an action to activate it - all it says is that it just takes a touch. If that's the case, then she could finish the summons, move, draw, and touch in a round.

3) If she can't throw it to someone closer and she doesn't have enough actions to both finish the summons and get the stone cancelled...could she call off the summons to have her full suite of actions? Rukzha's reminded her of the bigger mission now - she's going to get to that wardstone, whatever it takes and AoOs be damned. Even if she eats an AoO, she can get in range for Elriel to grab the wand, five-foot step, and touch it. We're supposed to be big damn heroes, right? ;)

At 55 damage and grazed (meaning she has at least 210 hp), we'll need to get lucky to live through this.

I saw that as well and I'm pretty sure it's a typo (i.e., the GM forgot to update that).

We are worried about the outcome of the fight. This is a good fight.

She probably has DR/bludgeoning

Can someone 'smart' tell us that?

Spellcraft to know about defending bone: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (3) + 11 = 14

Using the rod is a standard action.

I have no idea how Toothy want to rule on action economy.

About throwing the rod, lets make it simple... with the rod in hand (which you can draw as a move action or as part of a movement, just like a weapon), you can throw it to someone else with a ranged touch attack. If you hit, the target is aware of it (either by seeing you or being told), and he is able to grab it (has at least one of his hands free), he automatically grab it without the need of a Dex or Ref check/save.

Rukzha is correct about the rod (standard action).

About the hp, it is not a typo... she is grazed! But it is not as bad as Rukzha pointed. Someone is grazed from 75%-51%, so if she had 111 hp, she would be almost half hp and still be grazed (not saying this is the case). Another point is the interaction between the wound threshold and temporary hp: if you have 50 total hp and 20 temporary hp, you could lose 30hp and still be healthy.

@Arrika: I took a look at the rules and I feel that I must remember you that you still have your full actions this turn (both movement, swift, and standard actions). A wand is a spell trigger item and thus requires only a standard action to activate:

Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

However, since it is a wand of summon monster, it still takes one round to kick:

Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

So, the way I read it, you need just a single standard action to activate it but you still have to wait for one round for it to complete its casting. The summons will appear on the beginning of your turn and you'll have your full round to do whatever you want to.

Ok, so I do have the summons this round, then? Arrika's actions are unchanged, but if the summons are showing up now I'll have them draw attacks of opportunity before I make the run through.

You don't have to drop the wand, you can simply keep it in your other hand.

The holy wave of energy restored all your hit points as well as all your spells and abilities, just like you have slept! Even Kelumarion is healed.

You also got a new level! There is more 'stuff' to happen, but I need you to level up first. Do not 'react' to the scene in the gameplay yet, for you'd have no time between the vision and what is about to happen.

*Squeal* that was a very exciting fight. This AP has been full of really interesting moments!

*Squeal* that was a very exciting fight. This AP has been full of really interesting moments!

High fives everyone! :)

Here's my crunch for level 5--I'll update profile and tagline tomorrow.

HP: +9 (6 HD, 1 Con, 1 Toughness, 1 FCB)
+1 BAB
Divine Bond (Weapon - add enhancement 1/day)
Skill Ranks (3): +1 Diplomacy, +1 Perception, +1 Sense Motive
BG Skill Ranks (2): +1 Handle Animal, +1 K(nobles)
Feat (Extra Lay on Hands [2x extra/day])
Channel Energy 3d6
+1 spell/day (level 1)

If slumber actually worked on everything I would probably get accursed hex here, but since it doesn't I'm thinking to get extra hex for cackle.

For spells I'm really unsure. Does stinking cloud even work against demons? It also seems really hard to use in the confined spaces we've been fighting in so far.

I kinda like the idea of dispel magic and destructive dispel, but I'm ways away from picking up that.

Can suggestion be used in combat? There doesn't seem to be any limit to it like there is to fascinated. For example suggest for an enemy to go and hug one of it's allies or to lie down and sleep? I figure it's like dominate person, except limited to only one action, certainly more powerful than command.

I guess Heroism is another option. It's awfully good for dungeons like the one we just went through, especially if I pick up the mythic version.

I see a lot of recomendations for sleet storm, sure it can cut massive battlefields in half, but it seems kinda hard to use in a lot of situations, like the indoors fights we just had.

@Toothy: What's your opinion on the path ability that lets you cast mythic spells without spending points? I really want to use mythic spells, but I'm also worried that they are not really worth it compared to another use of wild arcane when we get so few points. Being able to cast two mythic spells per day would solve that problem beautifully. It's a 3rd tier ability, so it's a while away yet.

I think I might go with suggestion and heroism, unless someone got compelling arguments for what else I should chose.

Mythic suggestion also sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

Can we pick the mythic feat extra path ability more than once? Most of the feats require usage of points, but a lot of path abilities don't.

@Arrika: What path are you picking? Guardian?

---

Oh yeah, I agree the fight was great. *High five!*

HP: +6 (4 class 2 con 1 FC)
feat: Extra hex (cackle), if I'm allowed I'll pick Sacred Geometry (Extend and either Persist or Echoing)
Spell slots: +2 3rd
Spells known: Heroism, Suggestion
Skills: +6 ranks (knowledge planes, perception, 2 intimidate, spellcraft, sense motive)
Background skills: +2 knowledge engineering

I'm hoping that I can pick up knowledge arcana with a headband.

@Toothy: Do you allow Sacred Geometry? Pbp means there is none of the slowdown you would have at a table, but I could see banning it for power level reasons. I almost want to pick it up already... Cackling hag's blouse isn't very expensive. I kinda have to plan things up to 15 to see what metamagic feats I'm getting with it. Extend for sure, but I might want to pick up persist normally instead of getting it through that.

But I...I wanted to use my standard action to pick my nose! D:

Nah, my next move was for sure to use the rod again. Got a job, remember? And we won! :D

I'm pretty busy at work tonight, but I'll try and get leveled up by the end of the morning at least. I know weekends are usually slower anyway, although I'm not going to use that as an excuse to not get it done.

But I...I wanted to use my standard action to pick my nose! D:

Ha.

I was looking at the heirophant again. It's actually not bad. Paizo even has a suggested build, the holy warrior. I might go with it, after all.

@Arrika: What path are you picking? Guardian?

Yup, Guardian. There were a few paths that would have worked out all right for me, but Guardian had the most goodies, and I liked the flavor of its trait best. (Although I think I was considering dual path Guardian/Hierophant in order to add a little divine flavor to her as well, since she is, or at least considers herself, a type of priestess.)

Rukzha wrote:

@Arrika: What path are you picking? Guardian?

Yup, Guardian. There were a few paths that would have worked out all right for me, but Guardian had the most goodies, and I liked the flavor of its trait best. (Although I think I was considering dual path Guardian/Hierophant in order to add a little divine flavor to her as well, since she is, or at least considers herself, a type of priestess.)

I am woefully unprepared for all this mythic stuff so lots of help is very welcomed. :)

I'll start reading up this weekend.

Is there something that's just a very good match for Elriel and his style?

EDIT: I guess 'trickster' most closely aligns with Elriel.

@Rukzha: Demons are immune to the stinking cloud spell since it received the poison descriptor... nevertheless, it seems you've settled with Heroism and Suggestion, which are both good options.

I see no problem with that path that allows the use of mythic spells a couple times per day without spending points, but since it is a 3rd tier ability, I'll give my full approval when we get closer to that and I have a better idea of how our mythic rules will work.

About the Extra Path Ability I'm going to say no. My slow regain of the mythic points is to somehow limit the mythic rules a bit, to make encounters more interesting and this looks like 'cheating' lol.

I'm also going to say no to Sacred Geometry because once your ranks in k. engineering gets higher, there are so many ways to use these numbers that it becomes almost an automatic success, even more since you'd have the time to mull it over.

@Elriel: I believe the trickster is the best option for your skills and sneak attacks.

Toothy, are you okay if I choose legendary item from the universal path? I'm thinking this scimitar has more power than we imagined. I need to study it more, but it looks like a neat idea.

Yeah, Trickster's far and away the best choice for rogue-types. They might find benefit from other trees, but Trickster was made for them.

@Toothy - Would you be ok with Arrika going Dual Path Guardian/Hierophant eventually? It lets me pull in some divine flavor, which feels appropriate for her, and there's not a ton in any tree that helps her a lot, although Guardian has the most.

So, uh...I was trying to decide what to take for a feat, and in the process I discovered that I, ah...never actually qualified for Power Attack at level 3. Mmm...my bad.

Any chance I could switch it for the appropriate Skill Focus feat in order to take Eldritch Heritage this level (and mythic Eldritch Heritage down the line)? I'm thinking the Destined bloodline (I mean, destroying a wardstone's a heck of a realization of destiny...), the Celestial bloodline (to highlight Kelumarion's influence on her drawn forth by the stone's energies), or the Arcane bloodline (taking in the wardstone's power, with a piece of the stone itself as a bonded item). If you're feeling especially generous, I'd love to take the Empyreal bloodline, as Kelumarion's actually an agathion empyreal lord, but usually it requires a sorcerer archetype to take a wildblooded bloodline. Thoughts? Opinions? Think I'm crazy? ;)

HP: +6 (+5 HD, +1 CON)
Feat: TBD (see above)
Spells/day: +1 1st, +1 2nd level spell/day (now five 1st, three 2nd/day)
Spells known: +1 2nd level spell known (communal protection from evil)
Spell swap of choice: swapping protection from evil for rejuvenate eidolon)
Summon monster III: spell-like ability improves
Skill ranks: +1 Use Magic Device, +1 Spellcraft, +1 Knowledge (arcana)
Background skill ranks: +2 Knowledge (history) because come on, after that show? ;)

I'll get the changes put into my sheet later, if that's ok.

@Brevon: There were already hints of the weapon containing a lot more power. You might not want to overwrite what could potentially be an artifact ;).

Did you check out contingent channel energy + Beacon of Hope. You already qualify for Beacon of hope this level. Sadly that one doesn't stack with heroism. Are you planning to pick it up? If you are, I might be better looking at other options.

@Elriel: I've been listing you a few mythic path abilities both here and in private, all gotten from the trickster path. I kinda assumed you would go with that already.

@Arrika: Why not dual path guardian and archmage? I would think archmage got more for you than hierophant.

@Toothy: Thanks for allowing that path ability. I'll probably go with mythic spell lore as my first feat then. Sacred Geometry is not really that powerful when you compare it to mythic, but the two do combine, so I understand that you'll disallow it. That's why I asked instead of simply taking it.

Now that I'm thinking further I'm thinking to get misfortune instead of cackle and then look for the blouse when I get a chance.

What's extra unfortunate about not being able to pick extra path ability multiple times is that I'll run out of options for my mythic feats. There is no mythic version for extra hex, so I'll first have to pick up the normal version to get anywhere. I assume extra mythic power is not allowed either (nor would a feat that picks up extra mythic spells per day be).

@Toothy (Arrika): What do you think about having the general path ability giving an aura so Arrika can qualify for sacred summons if she picks it up? I find it really weird that it doesn't state that it does so (why would your clerics get an aura, but not yourself?).

Rukzha, yea, at first I thought that was simply a reference to my divine bond class feature and/or a way to bring me up to par with the others, but now you've got me wondering...! I"ll wait to hear from Toothy before deciding anything. I'll check out beacon of hope.

I was looking to pick up a few divine-related path abilities to give her more of a divine feel; she is, after all, a god-caller and priestess, and I thought it'd be cool to give her a few holy powers to go with that. But it looks like most of what I wanted to get through Hierophant I can actually get through Guardian too, so I'll give Archmage another look and decide if I want to dual-path into it. (I think the reason I wasn't looking at Archmage in the first place is that there was a fair bit of competition for it in recruitment.)

You can get the divine feel though Divine Source path ability I mentioned above. Sadly feel doesn't actually help much when you can't actually use the abilities (Since most of them require either divine spells or channeling). All the companion stuff form hierophant is as you mentioned already duplicated over to Guardian. If your main path is Archmage and you take guardian as your secondary you can also get access to the awesome wild arcana. Not sure if Toothy would make that disqualify you from getting the upgraded version of your trait though.

@Toothy: D20pfsrd convinently lists most of the mythic stuff, however for feats there are a lot of 3pp from the same author as wrote the feat part of the Mythic Adventures. Will you be allowing those feats? If you are not, people should be vary of it so they don't accidentally think they are legal.

I get access to Wild Arcana anyway if/when I dual-path.

And if you use Archives of Nethys, it lists only the first-party stuff, if it is first-party-only we're going with.

Oh, I didn't realize dual path gave you access to the 1st tier ability. It's a lot better than I thought it was then. Those are generally worth more than a mythic feat anyway. Though in this specific game they might not be as useful as normal since we are so limited in mythic power. Wild Arcana is really good though. I'll probably use most of my mythic power for that. Fleet charge is also really good.

My tagline/profile should now be up to date.

You forgot the 2d6 => 3d6 for LoH, though not like that's a huge problem.

I'm debating whether to not get heroism after all. If you are getting Beacon of Hope, then only the mythic version would be really good. Are you getting Beacon this level or sticking with extra lay on hands? Though I guess selective channeling is kinda needed to use Beacon in combat and the duration is too short to use it before combat effectively.

Isn't Extra Channel Energy better than Extra lay on hands? It'll give you four more uses, though only for channeling, or are you simply looking to use the swift action healing and mercies?

I'll swap my background skills into linguistics (celestial) and knowledge (history).

I hope Kai isn't intimidated by our spam over the weekend.

I'm not going with beacon or extra channel because my hands are rarely free to hold divine focus, unless I'm misapplying that rule?

My LoH is indeed only 2d6. It staggers with channel.

I've seen a staff count as a holy symbol in pfs, so it's certainly possible to do it other ways than to have one in your hand. If you are going to channel (and a lot of hierophant abilities involves channeling), you should look into getting something similar. Maybe a sigil on your shield or the crossguard of your blade.

Rukzha's profile and tagline is now updated.

There are always holy symbol tattoos, and channel foci include weapons, shields, and rings that count as holy symbols as well as having other effects when charged with channeled energy.

@Brevon: I'm ok you taking the Legendary Item as your path ability when you finally get your mythic tiers. We still have a couple things to do before that! As Arrika and Rukzha pointed out, I believe there are some other ways to get over this holy symbol problem.

@Arrika: I'm completely ok with everything you requested... the dual path feat, the exchange for power attack, and also any of the mentioned bloodlines (even Empyrial).

@Rukzha: I think I'm a bit lost about your question about the sacred summons feat for Arrika... I'm not sure if she is planning on summon creatures with normal spells so sacred summons could be useful. Through her SLA she already cast as a standard action, right?